The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 16, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
Because math, and other descriptions, because math?
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Dec 17, 2018 - 07:30am PT
Ed: I've answered "yes" to this many times, you ignore the answer, dismiss it every time. You are not seriously interested in considering that there are people who do experience the universe this way.

Sure I am. Give me a typical mundane daytime task or chore (like most everyone has) where you thought through the intergalactic or quantum mechanical issues to solve the everyday task.

I’d say that intergalactic and quantum mechanical phenomena are hardly available to empirical experience. Both are “seen” through conceptual frameworks, constructs, and metric which are devised to make them evident to the mind. All of contemporary modern science “works” based on the same process. What is intergalactic and quantum mechanical is not directly available to anyone’s senses.

If anyone is “living” in a world of non-empirical notions, they could easily be just as delusional as a person “living” in a world of dieties, magical spirits, and good and evil.

These are world views, dependent upon visions. (The real question might be: what’s a vision?)
WBraun

climber
Dec 17, 2018 - 08:33am PT
Both material nature and the living beings have attributes lying far beyond the scope of the present material theories ......
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 17, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
Both are “seen” through conceptual frameworks, constructs, and metric which are devised to make them evident to the mind.

do you use glasses MikeL?

we all say they are to "correct" your vision, but what does that mean?

Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 17, 2018 - 08:22pm PT
I'll take mine rose. risen? Ha. I'd be lucky to catch you all, up in your high places..

Edit: didn't sound quite right, up in the high places?

Edit edit: Some say science will supplant our primitive, tribal, fairy tale based views of human nature. I wonder, did they ever sit in front of the wrong Phd comittee? Also, when you've run the gauntlet, you've gotten the paper, do you automatically absolve the others or the system, their transgressions. Or does that take time. Pardon the hyperbole. Respect to the academics, there were some good folks, even in the Religioius Studies Dept. (Getting a Phd in the humanities, now there is an act of faith).
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 17, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
a little glass can take you a long way
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Dec 17, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
a little glass can take you a long way

Boy, I'll say!
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 17, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
When you mentioned glass, I was thinking telescopes. If I remember, in school, it was neat that Galileo and Kepler designed the primary types of telescopes. They haveng changed much i believe.

An aside, insects can see UV light, stomatopods too. If we could perceive other things, would we have built different instruments? Resources apportioned differently. Would our understanding of the universe be at another place?
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
5Nice lights... Some amazing creators. Transitory, only after images? Not there anymore?


Sorry have to do it...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Crazy & so beautiful. Also, thinking how Ms. Mitchell has aged. We all do. Ashes to ashes, still beautiful, the single lighted. from a spark
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 18, 2018 - 12:29am PT
If we could perceive other things, would we have built different instruments?

we pretty much observe the universe using all forms of radiation
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 07:58am PT
Just thinking that we started with visible light, unless I'm mistaken.

Wasn't it the background stuff that "shed light" on the spark.
WBraun

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 08:03am PT
No not light, it started with SOUND vibration and that sound vibration WAS/IS NOT material period ......
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 08:10am PT
Im ok with sound... A story i heard. A Guru gave Westeners each their own individual mantra. The westerners seemed to like it more than ohm...

Guru's smile? Do gurus "smile"? I thought it was funny, wise? Punny?
WBraun

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 08:13am PT
Being a simpleton will not help you ever ...
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 18, 2018 - 08:24am PT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon_acoustic_oscillations

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 09:07am PT
Being a simpleton will not help you ever ...

But sometimes it makes me smile. Not going to give everything up either. Only my own example, at best?

but 5000 year old fairytales from desert wanderers of the middle east would still be just as irrelevant.

I don't know the history, but I think some of those dudes had some rad ideas about the heavens. Also, haven't humans always exploited other cultures, and absorbed their ideas? I imagine that some Western Europeans were partially informed by the desert wanderers of the middle east. Much easier to steal research than do your own. Finally, isn't China doing kind of the same thing to us currently? interwebs, and supertopor!

edit: maybe just aiming for a simple life. targeting a duck's seems to miss the mark, and more over the point...
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 09:17am PT
A more serious question Ed:

I thought that sound couldn't propagate in a vacuum. I thought the title of your video was a "mistake", or that space referred to a room for instance.

Also, here, what happens to sound when it reaches the "boundary" of space? Does it simply attenuate as the atmosphere thins? Seems peculiar to think that "energy" "disappears" because of nothing. Thanks for entertaining a former biologists perspective.

Could you "view" something around the earth, expanding and contracting, like a waves from a speaker?

edit: Antichrist, Do the 10 commandments have anything to do with the story of Ganesh? To see that they may have developed independently, were conserved across millenia, we're shared across cultures. No mind, I accept that it may never be appreciated.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Dec 18, 2018 - 09:18am PT
I think it is clear, if we could see other things (like dark matter) our interpretaion of the universe would be very different... but 5000 year old fairytales from desert wanderers of the middle east would still be just as irrelevant.

If we are, in fact, as science so certainly informs us, insignificant life forms on a tiny speck in some distant part of an incredibly vast universe, and we are destined to die out within the tiniest bit of geologic time along with all the insignificant information we have discovered and nothing, absolutely nothing, will be left of any civilization that we have endeavored to build or any idea we might of come up with, then what is "relevant?" Certainly not science.
Jim Clipper

climber
Dec 18, 2018 - 09:21am PT
Paul! You matter!!

I have to go... good day, sincerely
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 18, 2018 - 09:24am PT
...then what is "relevant?"

probably to live your life with joy and wonder, where ever you find it, science included (but probably not for you Paul).

I thought that sound couldn't propagate in a vacuum.

interstellar-, intergalactic-, intercluster-space is not a vacuum, but a very very low density medium in which "sound" propagates at speed rather slow compared to our usual experience.

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