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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Ah, gotta love the Catholic church, the greatest industrial child rape organization of all time.
BAd
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Ah, gotta love the Catholic church, the greatest industrial child rape organization of all time.
Exactly what I mean when I say myopic. Priests don't rape children because they're Catholics they do so because they're human and as humans they're susceptible to all the tragic foibles that are human. Would you throw out science because of its bad actors? No because it would would be plainly stupid. Consider all the bad things science has done for us: bombs, chemical warfare, biological warfare.You need to think this through a bit more thoroughly.
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Yeah you should love the Catholic Church:
"The Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world.[1] It has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals, with 65 percent of them located in developing countries.[2] In 2010, the Church's Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Care Workers said that the Church manages 26% of the world's health care facilities.[3] The Church's involvement in health care has ancient origins.
Jesus Christ, whom the Church holds as its founder, instructed his followers to heal the sick. The early Christians were noted for tending the sick and infirm, and Christian emphasis on practical charity gave rise to the development of systematic nursing and hospitals."
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Don't play stupid paul. You know damn well churches do that for power. There is a huge race between mormons, catholics, and every other "christian" church out there to convert and assimilate...
more followers = more power = more money = easier to coverup child molestation
The catholic crutch's wealth rivals that of many nations, yet they get tax breaks and are not restricted by boarders or international trade agreements. Pretending they do it all out of the goodness of their heart is absurd.
Right, that's why so many monks and nuns take a vow of poverty so they can manipulate the masses and get more money and then molest kids. Who are you Alex Jones? Do yourself a favor: read a book. They only thing stupid and absurd around here is guess what?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Are we talking about monks and nuns (individuals) or are we talking about the catholic church, one of the richest corporations on the planet... if it were beholden to the laws normal corporations are... but it isn't, it is special, not because it consolidated massive wealth and power through centuries of bloodshed, oh no, but because its prehistoric stories are so very rich in metaphor and meaning and rape and slavery and infanticide and incest... the essence of the human experience.
That's nothing but overwrought hyperbole and exaggeration. Biblical stories are hardly prehistoric. Infanticide? Incest? Your anger seems beyond reason or anything appropriate. Go be antichrist if it floats your boat.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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And what the bible does is to move away from those commands to the notion of turning the other cheek. In the same way that the story of Abraham and Isaac represents the end of human sacrifice. You can't be so stupid as to not recognize that. Or maybe you are. The progressive mediation of exactly the inclinations you describe is what the bible does, but there are those so inclined to their own myopic hate they can't possibly realize that. Go be anti-christ it suits you well. I'll bet it feels real good.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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"Turning the other cheek" sounds good, but there is a passage somewhere where Christ says he's here not to overturn the prophets of old, but reinforce them, so to speak. So it's Deuteronomy all the way, bro's! Leviticus to the max! Ugh, what crappy book. The Koran sucks, too.
For those with "faith" in these corrupt catalogues, spend some time on this site:
https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
BAd
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Anyone can take sections or sentences out of a journal article to show how misguided and wrong it is as a document. That constitutes poor scholarship / reading. (This is why there are courses in literature.)
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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re deny, deflect or distract
MikeL, you're truly an embarrassment. I don't know which type is more a menace, yours or Trump's.
...
Meanwhile, on a related subject, here's a great discussion on language and thought and progress, featuring Pinker and a new emergence on my radar, John McWhorter...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
https://youtu.be/NeHW0MJSxMs
...
Today's Fareed Zakaria is not to be missed. Wow. Including the piece, The Fifth Risk, by Michael Lewis.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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What religion does is to embrace the conflicted nature of humanity. That's what the Old and New Testaments do. They are a reflection of the human condition and offer an insight into human potential. As well, they reflect, through allegory, the problem of the acceptance of what is the sublime experience of being. What Christ represents as metaphor is the potential in each of us for good, to be Christlike. What the Old Testament account of creation offers is an allegory of consciousness as the formal ordering of what is otherwise simply unknown. That is: the coming into human consciousness is the fall from the state of grace of a benign obliviousness. Exactly what Michelangelo paints so brilliantly on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.
These ideas speak to the non-believer as well as the fundamentalist as metaphors of psychological states. The Bible is an amazing book as most sacred texts are. Reading them as if they were your car's tech manual is just silly.
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John M
climber
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higher power (i.e. voices in your head).
after 9/11 the voices in peoples heads were saying that we needed to "smite" someone. Those voices are their higher power/god because that is what they follow and act on.
Watch Jordan Petersons series on the bible. He is only through Genesis, but he explains the stories of the Bible from a psychological perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w&t=7s
religion is simply man's attempt to understand God/Creator. So of course it has mistakes in it. Even those who believe the bible is the inerrant word of god don't follow it precisely.
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WBraun
climber
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Anti loon always try's to imitate God.
Every day he preaches his brainwashed bullsh!t here.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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While I appreciate Jordan Peterson'a attempt, I have no doubt he is still in Genesis... the dude rambles. Even at 4x speed he makes a point about every 10 min.
Ha, well I suppose it helps if you can understand what he's saying.
Nobody in their right mind believes, thinks or advocates incest or killing children or thinks that the bible advocates such things. What the bible communicates in those terrible passages in Leviticus is part of the old law, which is by the way, eliminated in the new Testament and indicates the character of God as brutal and a reflection of the very nature of being which is, in fact, brutal. Nobody is advocating killing children except for the few deranged dopes who, like yourself, take this stuff absolutely literally.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Yeah, Jordan's soo deep man, I just can't follow what he's saying. I just listened to the first 20 minutes of one of his talks and his whole point seems to be he doesn't know anything...
Yeah unlike the geniuses such as yourself here on the super taco Jordan's an idiot and you're brilliant. Ha! Too funny. Man someone needs to get a grip.
I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes.
If the founding fathers had obeyed the dictates of Romans 13 then their would have been no revolutionary war and you would remain a subject of the principal of England. Nobody holds to that view especially Pence. Governmental oppression and the ubiquitous rebellion against it is perfect proof that political necessity always trumps biblical commands.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Nuns embezzle 'substantial' amount of funds from church school, monsignor says
Oh so what: people do bad things. Any institution is likely to experience the frailties of its participants. You're going to condemn an institution because of one bad actor? Silly stuff.
That wasn't my quote bub.
No "bub" it was the quote you posted. Try doing more research. And by the way "alot" isn't a word.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Sorry, you've got to hit the ball back over the net if you want a reply.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 10, 2018 - 09:37am PT
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Paul: Nobody is advocating killing children except for the few deranged dopes who, like yourself, take this stuff absolutely literally.
Mythic logic is a logic of the equivocal, the ambiguous, and polarities. Playful and open pluralities are more truthful than limiting certainties. Definitiveness is finite. What is complete is infinite. Scriptures of any sort are direct expressions of—not about—reality. There’s a big difference. If some religious followers are getting that wrong, then they’re probably wrong. One wouldn’t condemn mathematics if a mathematician got a calculation wrong.
Derrida and his French and Italian colleagues told us that there is something more than words at play in the act and art of writing. He and others undermined language as *representational.* Any and every writing, according to them, can hardly be anything other than expressive. In another area in the humanities, White, following Genette, distinguished objective narratives from discourses, which one is supposed to read for their images, impressions, insights that confirm one’s reflective experiences.
Again, studying literature teaches one how to read (see, Harold Bloom). It would seem to be dead easy, but I’d say it’s not. (But then again, I used to teach writing a long ago while working through my degrees.)
Be well.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 10, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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Hey Dingus, thanks for the heads up. That was very good.
I wonder if our friend, Paul, would should could listen to it.
I had never heard of this podcast at NPR. A little research...
Using science and storytelling, Hidden Brain reveals the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, and the biases that shape our choices.
"Hosted by NPR social science correspondent Shankar Vedantam, Hidden Brain links research from psychology and neurobiology with findings from economics, anthropology, and sociology, among other fields. The goal of Hidden Brain isn't merely to entertain, but to give you insights to apply at work, at home and throughout your life.
It's got tons of episodes...
https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain
Nice.
In the end of the podcast one last topic Shariff broaches is the idea/strategy of choosing your battles. This made me think again of our Paul Roehl here... how he (a) chooses to battle us secular science types who are pointing out religion's shortcomings not for any EVIL intent but for sake of evolving, progressing, improving; instead of (b) choosing to battle the religious fundies which do not number just in the few hundred as Paul likes to convey but the few million as is plainly obvious by any study of the subject.
Anyways, good piece.
The subject of Evolution of Religious Systems has been around for decades. Indeed, not unlike the subject of Artificial Intelligence. Today, it's amazing to see how both thesee fields now are really taking off, really lighting up. Many changes ahead.
I also noted the bit at the end - pretty obvious actually if one thinks about it - about how the growth / evo of today's social institutions are step by step obviating the need for ol time religions in part or whole.
"Science and Storytelling"
That's what it's all about right there. The future that is.
Ref: Azim Shariff at twitter...
https://twitter.com/azimshariff
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 10, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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DMT,
Hey, how’s it going, pal?
NPR might be a medium for the non-scholastic. My wife listens to Terry Gross all the time and thinks she’s on the cutting edge of knowledge. I’ve tried to dissuade her of that notion, but I only get looks of distain in response. (Who am *I* to question Terry Gross and NRP??)
Not that it’s important, but Azim Shariff is not saying anything new. Many reputable university has a department that deals with religious studies. Many sociologist have argued that religion is a social creation for the preservation of society. But there breadth of scholarship that has written and researched religion theoretically and empirically is very broad.
Here are some names that you could look up if you wanted to: Durkheim, Frazer, Hooke, everyone among the “Cambridge school,” Gaster, Taylor, Smith, Otto, van der Leeuw, Pettazzzoni, Eliade, Freud, Jung, Girard, Campbell, Lang, Marrett, Radcliffe-Brown, Malinowski, Geertz, Huxley, Erikson, Evans-Pritchard, Van Gennep, Gluckman, Turner, Levi-Strauss, Douglas, Leach, Tambian, Crapanzano, Munn, Weber, J.L. Austin, Bloch, Staal, Goffman, etc. . . . and not to mention the many writers of scriptures themselves. I mean it’s hardly an under-researched topic. It’s my scant read of the literatures that there is no good answer for why there are religions. Scholars seem to provide many many answers, the majority of which appear to be contrary to the others.
As I wrote to Capseeboy a week or so back privately, Joseph Campbell might have summarized the breadth of writing about it best. In his view, religion, myth, and ritual offer four functions: (i) metaphysical in that it induces awe and reverence; (ii) cosmological in that it provides coherent image of the cosmos; (iii) sociological in that it integrates and maintains individuals within a community; and (iv) psychological in that it guides individual, internal development.
Be well.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 10, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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Joseph Campbell might have summarized the breadth of writing about it best. In his view, religion, myth, and ritual offer four functions: (i) metaphysical in that it induces awe and reverence; (ii) cosmological in that it provides coherent image of the cosmos; (iii) sociological in that it integrates and maintains individuals within a community; and (iv) psychological in that it guides individual, internal development.
As may be, but he forgot: (v) political/economic in that it gets entire populations to willingly pay for their own enslavement.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
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Yer all enslaved already and has nothing to do with you people's st00pid religion ideas.
The minute you think you are the material body you are enslaved ....
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