Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 04:03pm PT
|
exampmes Yeah, I once had "exampmes" they went away on their own.
religious texts explicitly promote hate and murder.
Yeah, and a V2 rocket with a bomb on its nose is a promotion of peace.
Religion is largely a mediating factor on an otherwise almost incomprehensibly violent race: humanity.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 04:18pm PT
|
The religious texts from the bronze age, like the Stele of Hammurabi or later the Pentateuch, advocate eye for an eye justice which was a remarkable step forward for civilized life at that time considering the state of unbridled retribution and revenge that societies participated in earlier. Judging religion based on a direct reading of the Old Testament fails to consider the historical context of those writings and, frankly, makes little sense.
|
|
Norton
climber
The Wastelands
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
|
Judging religion based on a direct reading of the Old Testament fails to consider the historical context of those writings and, frankly, makes little sense.
you know Paul, i heard that "defense" of God's instructions many times
but never understood it, the defense that God just had to speak to humans in words that they would understand back 2000 years ago, they must have been able to be talked to normally
so when God tells, orders, commands humans to rape, butcher and outright murder in other
then please explain just how that can be misconstrued, taken any other way, Paul?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 04:51pm PT
|
God tells, orders, commands humans to rape, butcher and outright murder
You brainwashed nutcase God never said any such bullsh!t.
Some nutcase just like you interpreted the original and inserted their own horsh!t masqueraded as God said.
This why the Bible is useless as it is today because it's been butchered by nutcase idiots just like YOU .....
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
|
but never understood it, the defense that God just had to speak to humans in words that they would understand back 2000 years ago, they must have been able to be talked to normally
You're reading these texts in a manner scholars sometimes call presentism. The idea that contemporary morals or social structures can be imposed on previous periods misinforms us as to those periods. What you're calling normal is simply the product of your own context.
Life was much different in terms of expectation and behavior in the Bronze age. I think of religious ideas such as Judaism or later Zoroastrianism as the Pandora's Box of liberating ideas that would lead us eventually to the enlightenment. Simply viewing the negative aspect of these belief systems ignores their great benefit to humanity. But folks here seem just too interested in being pissed off to look at them rationally.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
|
Exactly, religion WAS useful, but it is a collection of silly, irrelevant, misogynist, violent xenophobia in the modern world. The luminifeous aether was useful 150 years ago, but scientists aren't as clunging as yall.
This is a very myopic view based on contemporary standards and ignoring the psychological insights and their ability to reconcile the individual to the tragedy that is life that can be found in mythology and its sacred texts.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
|
No, more like the psychological insight offered up by Christ on the cross when he dies with acceptance while forgiving those who murdered him in an act of understanding that subverts hate and celebrates the human condition of error as in "forgive them for they know not what they do."
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
|
Like the guy who just killed those people in PA... he knew not what he did, so all is forgiven. No wonder those nutjobs like religion.
Yeah, how do you live with tragedy? Do you fill yourself with self righteous bitterness? Do you let yourself be consumed by hate? The new testament's message is a psychological insight stressing the importance of finding peace within yourself. That's a deeply important message that doesn't require belief in god or even religion but it's there in the New testament and it's powerful stuff. The trick is to achieve justice without being consumed by hate. "Vengeance is mine saith the lord." Forgiving is a powerful act and a blessing.
You gotta wonder why everyone has to be a nutjob or dipsh#t I mean, really, get over it.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2018 - 10:32pm PT
|
Then forgive me for considering your collection of fairytales to be outdated and irrelevant.
Of course, you obviously know not what you do.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
^^^^
:-)
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
I mean most religious people I know ain't all that bright,
That's because you are st00pid and you're attracted to the same as you.
Karma is your bitch.
Clueless nutcase is all you are .....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Forgive yourself NOT me for remaining st00pid ......
|
|
Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
|
|
If you've ever had a friend who bought into Amway or another multi level marketing scheme, I think there are similarities. The believers, for the most part, really do believe and work to spread it like a virus. The pyramid schemes also encourage their members to leverage their family relationships and friendships. The people who make a serious study of a religion, and then pose as experts, are not so innocent.
I feel the same way about people selling herbal remedies, acupuncture etc. I would like to be open minded, but there are endless scammers out there who don't provide a real alternative for people who need real medical attention. It's not harmless, even if you leave out the pedophiles.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
re: critical whiteness studies, grievance studies
A cancer is growing in the social sciences and humanities...
The Faculty of Humanities recently formed a new network of researchers called VitKrit, whose stated goal is to focus on "critical whiteness studies." The discipline seeks to "problematize whiteness" in human science.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201810291069309930-sweden-whiteness-studies/
"One of the core fundamentals for a university is that it's what you do, not who you are or what group you belong to, that counts. A network like VitKrit reverses this basic norm by accusing all whom they define as 'white' of 'acquiring unfair privileges and positions of power,'" Rothstein wrote. "If this thought model is accepted, which now seems to be the case within the Faculty of Humanities, you can safely say that the University of Gothenburg has de facto ceased to be a university." -Bo Rothstein
I'm looking forward to the first Critical Beauty course.
...
Word of the day: problematize
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
I don't think humanity is quite ready to shed itself of religion, just yet.
Nor internal combustion engines, nor clean coal.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
A cancer is growing in the social sciences and humanities.
The social sciences and the humanities are not one. There has been some effort to turn the humanities into social sciences and I see that as a negative impulse. To some degree that's based on a sense of inferiority to the certainties offered by science, but also from a point of empathy toward underrepresented groups. I think it's a mistake, but I also think it's greatly exaggerated and that that exaggeration serves those trying to dismiss the humanities in favor of STEM. The ever-present battle for funding pits the humanities and science against one another and that's a shame.
I've watched UCSC move from the University of Foucault to a highly reputable research university particularly in astronomy and biology. The sciences seem to be winning out if anything and there are strong voices in the humanities like Harold Bloom and Camille Paglia and many others who stand up for art as aesthetic experience sans political hierarchy. There are eccentrics in all disciplines and the university should be the crucible in which eccentricities are tested. Critics can latch on to these eccentric players and blow them out of all proportion to serve their own purposes: the sky is not falling and the tumor is benign.
|
|
Norton
climber
The Wastelands
|
|
I admire Paul's well spoken defense of religion and particularly of his own, Christianity.
You don't have to agree with someone all the time to respect them.
Freedom of speech means any poster should not be reluctant to post for fear of being personally attacked out of the blue and called childish names.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
I admire Paul's well spoken defense of religion and particularly of his own, Christianity.
You don't have to agree with someone all the time to respect them.
Norton, c'mon.
Respecting Paul and respecting his (well-spoken) defense of religion are separate things. Easily distinguished.
Paul exhibits good grammar, and good sentence and paragraph structure. Beyond this where is the substance? Either regarding (a) justification of maintenance of Abrahamic narratives as a basis for 21st century institutions and good living; or (b) support for the SJW invasion, growth and its nonsense into social sciences and the humanities. (Not to mention here the traditional anti-science aspect exhibited throughout the humanities going back five decades.)
Take his last post for example. Two well constructed paragraphs. And before that, his other post, where I asked him what he meant by calling out "Crap" to something in one of my posts... perhaps it was the hoax papers? or perhaps it was the dialog between Rogan and Boghossian? No substance to any of his posts, merely deflection and change of topic at most.
What substance can you recall besides his claims: promotes reconciliation with being; you don't understand metaphor but as a child; science robs funding from the humanities. Did I miss anything?
Too many people let good grammar or good writing sub for good ideation and its exposition.
In case it's already forgotten...
[His] well spoken defense of religion...
What is that exactly?
...
Norton, hope you're doing well. :)
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
And I for one, as an interested consumer in these discussions, thinks Paul makes damn good points that are well worth consideration.
So can you give me one that I can chew on over lunch. I realize Paul speaks for Paul but how about one that's been insightful for you? Esp one that's nontrivial and not been repeated 20 times.
...
Is this a fringe group?
These people are all operating from a core inner operating system (ios) the center of which is a 1300 - 2500 year old religious narrative (all taken as Gospel Truth of the Great Reality). As an atheist how long do you think Paul would last, even though it's the 21st century, if he were set down in the middle of this group and couldn't pretend he was someone other?
This is our world now. Poor Asia, Christian mother of five, was accused by two sisters in her neighborhood of blaspheming against the Prophet and as a result had to spend the last eight years in fear for her life in solitary confinement. Now that Asia's been found not guilty by the gov, she has to flee her country out of fear of being machete-d to death by these religious fanatics (who don't number in the thousands but in the hundreds of thousands).
We need to adapt. We need to double our efforts to adapt. We shouldn't expect to eat our cake and have it too (translation: to have our smart phones and our Resurrection too). We've fledged, time to fly.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/31/asia-bibi-verdict-pakistan-court-overturns-blasphemy-death-sentence
|
|
Norton
climber
The Wastelands
|
|
?
I have to believe Paul is a Christian from his use of the word "sacred" to preface the bible
he also speaks of Christ as a real historical person, no atheist, jew, etc would do that
as far as my using Freedom of Speech to mean a lack of reluctance to post on this forum and particularly on this thread I mean to post without hesitation for fear of being personally attacked as being insane, a nutcase, stupid, etc - which is what happened to me yesterday
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!