The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
Yeah, you might want to expand your horizons beyond the restraining limits, the insipid pablum of pop-culture. You might find something worthwhile in the complexities of theology and mythology and you might even recognize how their elements inform some of your own thinking.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 19, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
Paul, one can look for the good in religion without actually believing in spirits, gods.

Do you believe in a creator, a god, a personal god, Paul?

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
re: modeling radical truthfulness

Honnold is modeling something else, a kind of radical truthfulness. -Brett Stephens

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/alex-honnold-free-solo-movie.html

Note same could be said of Science. So let's do...

Science is modeling a kind of radical truthfulness.

...

Science is but the messenger, Nature's the culprit...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://youtu.be/s2D7ycjAKv4
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
the restraining limits, the insipid pablum of pop-culture... -PaulR

Proof positive you've never experienced more than bits at most of the Star Trek Universe.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
Moose, I bet you'd enjoy. First get together ever - Sam Harris and Brian Greene...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://youtu.be/A0hNc8r0POs

It's a favorite, they even discuss the possibility of the Resurrection of Jesus in the context of quantum mechanics and many worlds!

Notes: (1) Audio's messed up, too low. Best to download to VLC player and turn volume way up. It's perfect then. (2) For the fun of it, turned Ad Blocker Plus off, only four ads throughout show. That's four too many. ABP back on again.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 01:17am PT
You know, you speak sarcastically (correct me if I'm wrong) but all the Star Trek and Marvel Studio mythologies, for example,*** are also important genres of literature, storytelling and the humanities.

Proof positive you've never experienced more than bits at most of the Star Trek Universe.

Oh I've experienced it enough to say Star Trek models a kind of radical mediocrity. Fascinating, the idea of equating pop culture with high culture as in Star Trek and Comic books are "important literature." It's exactly the same kind of fuzzy post modernist thinking you like to rail against. Too funny.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 07:54am PT
Fascinating, the idea of equating pop culture with high culture as in Star Trek and Comic books are "important literature."

Good grief.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 07:56am PT
Good point xCon!
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:28am PT
Xcon: SINCE the hooks religion exploits in the human are as rooted in our beings as grammar what prevents IT from being studied starting in grade school as a subject valuable to the student in the suscessful navigation of the world?

The "hooks" you refer to are what makes one human. They are rooted in attractions and aversions. (Try getting rid of those.)

The programming of human beings are much deeper and pervasive than simply doctrines. One could start with "object permanence," which arises by 3 years old.

If religion bothers you so much, then you might want to look at the almost endless list of beliefs that people hold.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:50am PT
Religion bothers many of us and I am pleased that the number of people professing disbelief is growing at a rapid clip.
The hypocrisy and outright immorality of many evangelical christians is nothing short of astonishing.
If religion suits you, consider the muslim faith...hypocrites they are not.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:18am PT
If religion suits you, consider the muslim faith.

LOL ... religion has nothing to do with material designations Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc etc

Shows you really are ignorant of what religion really truly is.

If someone says this religion is bad then it's automatically not religion.

Very very few can actually spot religion as it is on this planet .....

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:24am PT
I may, as you say, be ignorant of what religion “really” is. I do know it’s not for me...to each his own.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:27am PT
You already made your own artificially ......
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 10:14am PT
re: "religion"

Well what's pretty clear to any reasonably educated person of C21 is that Abrahamic religion as practiced traditionally (whatever its version, C or I) is divisive af.

What Honnold laments to Joe Rogan in his latest podcast regarding fossil fuel use (vs solar use) is equally applicable to religions: "It's a bummer." It's a waste of human potential. "What's crazy" is that it's totally obvious - in 100 years evolution, it's going to be so much different - but there's so much public resistance to it, "it's insane", half the people will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, if you just embrace it, it could be 15 yrs instead of a hundred, etc etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OhHkBmbb5Y

Rogan: It's inevitable, I agree with you.

Honnold: That's almost more frustrating though. Because it's inevitable and yet it's going to be dragged out so long; you're sorta like, why can't people just embrace the inevitability of it and just move forward.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
Well what's pretty clear to any reasonably educated person of C21 is that Abrahamic religion as practiced traditionally (whatever its version, C or I) is divisive af.

Abrahamic religions have done immense good in the world.

How many Catholic Hospitals are there in Africa? South America? How many orphanages? Look it up.

Seems you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Humans believe, have faith, for a reason. Life's hard, often tragic, often terrible. Nature's cruel, humanity is, by its very nature, cruel.

You want to take away the solace humanity finds in religion in the face of what is often such a tragic condition?

You want to eliminate religion because of what a tiny minority does?

The reality is there are important reasons and benefits for and of belief you just simply want to ignore.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
the good western religions have done Africa only come after FIRST destroying the place and turning its good people into beggars

Religions didn't do that human beings did it as they have a natural (based in nature) proclivity to impose on their fellow man religion or not.

In fact, religion does a great deal to mediate the nastiness we humans are naturally inclined towards. You know like blessed are the peacemakers and so on.

Religion didn't make the people of Africa beggars that was nature.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world.[1] It has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals, with 65 percent of them located in developing countries.[2] In 2010, the Church's Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Care Workers said that the Church manages 26% of the world's health care facilities.[3] The Church's involvement in health care has ancient origins.

Catholic schools are parochial schools or education ministries of the Roman Catholic Church. As of 2011, the Church operates the world's largest non-governmental school system.[1] In 2016, the church supported 43,800 secondary schools, and 95,200 primary schools
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
Paul, it's okay.

But in retrospect you'll understand. In 25 years, you'll look back and see that religion isn't the only life guidance system (or life management system) that addresses people's deepest concerns (incl yours). We're all in a new age now. 500 years ago, let alone 5000, the world was different.

Today millions of people are proving to themselves, often through their own exploration and discovery - and of course with the aid of the internet, lol - that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism), that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.

Keep the faith, man.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
But in retrospect you'll understand. In 25 years, you'll look back and see that religion isn't the only life guidance system (or life management system) that addresses people's deepest concerns (incl yours). We're all in a new age now. 500 years ago, let alone 5000, the world was different.

Today millions of people are proving to themselves, often through their own exploration and discovery - and of course with the aid of the internet, lol - that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism), that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.

Keep the faith, man.

Well you're right about faith. One can only believe in the above if they have faith. Ironic.
Of course it's a fact that the Catholic Church is the single largest non governmental charitable organization in the world. I suppose we should shut it down as soon as possible and get everybody to toughen up.



High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
I suppose we should shut it down as soon as possible...


Per usual (as Aurelius said to Commodus), you go too far.

Why it's so hard (apparently) for you a) to see that religious systems are evolving (that they are subject to evolutionary pressure like anything else) and b) to see that religion no longer has a monopoly in the 21st century on the very qualities or features you like to describe as important... continues to escape me.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism),
that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.


Every single one of them are religious based including atheism.

Fruitloop is clueless as usual .......
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