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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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^^^^^^^^
Good luck with all that.
-hairless in Brain-addle
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Bushman how'd you guess I only had a few hairs to count?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Go be stop proselytizing
Your view of me is way off.
You have followed false prophets for so long that you fail to see the total failure
Of your faith
A faith built Of the thing created by & to enslave
Took a man, of known questionable intent, to justify control over others.
You are lost !
Your messiah ?
What proof
Is there :
Peace and eternal love - forgiveness or redemption?
Is the cost of evil still more valuable to the powers
That profess that God is ? When they still turn thier back on the truly in need
over their brainwashed self-serving flock
Do children still die in the womb ?
Die of fright and starvation. Lack of water?
Show me your god. . .
What do you say to the fact that Jesus asked for a more fanatical adherence to the Torah
Teachings, while laying in wait with the other threats to the then accepted practice of
changing money in the shadow of the revered and protected temple.
The beggars of those times were the threat, and the wandering boys boy was no saint.
He met with naked boy? And soiled the sheet ?
I'm not going to respond either as that is your way too
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Go-B, just curious, what do you think of Fox TV's Lucifer series? Of course, the word "Lucifer" appears only once in the Jewish Bible, and there it pertains to Nebuchadnezzar - The son of the Morning Star, meant to be a less-than-flattering descriptor, very much a real human being. Later Christian dogma mixed the terms "devil", "Satan", "Lucifer", etc. to mean the same supernatural entity.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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The Exalted Servant
Isaiah 52
13 Behold, My servant will prosper,
He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.
14 Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
So His appearance was marred more than any man
And His form more than the sons of men.
15 Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
For what had not been told them they will see,
And what they had not heard they will understand.
The Suffering Servant
53 Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
3 He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9 His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10 But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
... this can only be Jesus THE Messiah!
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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I spaketh not for thee, goB
But for my own irascible self
In all its chrome-dome-icity
Your hairless crown is but a badge
For all the years surviving parenting?
And for hard won cranial knocks
Or for the generic predisposition
For follicle ejection
Like the un-deserved rejection
Of the Original Bundy Fambly
From a mythically divine Fig patch
Of coordinates unknown
See now, hear now
And witness thusly my infuriation
In this finest pious imitation
Of a vengeful wrathful god
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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^^^^
Bushman - The Wizard of ST! lol
jgill, As a TV show Fox TV's Lucifer is entertaining but the one in the bible is why we are in this fine mess!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12%3A7-12&version=NKJV
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
...Jesus saved the day!
Edit: Bushman I wear my hair the same and I trimmed trees for 38 years as well!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Go Be*^^^^^^^* there for you to plainly see, is the face of GOD
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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re: choice and freedom in a mechanistic universe...
"You know, I've been thinking. Everything is... just comes together. It's me. I chose this. I chose all of this. This rock... this rock has been waiting for me my entire life. In its entire life, ever since it was a bit of meteorite a million, billion years ago up there In space. It's been waiting, to come here. Right, right here. I've been moving towards it my entire life. The minute I was born, every breath I've taken, every action has been leading me to this crack on the earth's surface." -aron ralston
Remember that old thread... re: science, religion and belief... that got deleted. It had a lot of good stuff on it. About fate and fatalism, the film 127 Hours, etc...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Great scene in the last Lucifer where he finally reveals himself to the psychiatrist upon her unrelenting pressure to cease engaging in delusion and show her the truth. He quietly leaves the office as she sits in stunned silence, lips trembling. Tom Ellis is superb in this role.
In the series, Lucifer states he is sent to Earth to punish the wicked, not provoke evil acts. And in some Satanic cults he is perceived as a creature who relishes and protects nature.
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WBraun
climber
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Lucifer states he is sent to Earth to punish
Not really to punish but to create pain.
Without pain, there would never be change.
No pain .... no gain ......
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Creation and the Finger of God
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
“It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.” (Exodus 31:17-18)
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16), but this portion of Scripture was given by direct inscription of God! Moses testified: “The LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly” (Deuteronomy 9:10). “He wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments” (Exodus 34:28). Thus, out of all the Holy Scriptures, God chose to write this section, not through one of His prophets, but with His own finger! It should, therefore, be taken literally and most seriously.
It is also significant that these commandments were structured around a weekly day of rest, “remembering” God’s creation week—six days of creating and making everything in heaven and Earth, followed by a sanctified day of rest and refreshment (note also Exodus 20:8-11 and Genesis 1:31–2:3). Ever since the creation, people have observed a weekly calendar. The seven-day week (unlike the day, month, and year) has no astronomical basis. People keep time in weeks simply because God did! Even those who deny the six-day week of creation must observe it, for their biological rhythms are constructed that way by God. “The sabbath was made for man,” said Jesus (Mark 2:27). Since God considered the truth of the literal creation week so important that He inscribed it Himself, we should believe this portion of His Word first of all. HMM
http://www.icr.org/article/9599/
Ten Commandments
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall make no idols.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Keep the Sabbath day holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I guess that the story where you are born, you live, you die and turn to dirt isn't very appealing. Particularly the part where you go to sleep and never wake up. It is hard to imagine mortality, that when we die, we blink out and that is it. Not even any more dreams. Like a general anesthetic that you don't awaken from.
So mortality is very scary. Even contemplating mortality is difficult, because we never experience it, unless we have surgery.
I'm not aware of a single religion that doesn't promise eternal life. Either a paradise or a reincarnation.
Then you have coincidences that seem to be supernatural. The Bible is filled with stories of Jesus performing miracles. I've never seen or heard of a modern miracle. Sure, people believe in them, but not me.
I questioned religion when I was about 12. My best friend died slowly and horribly from bone cancer. What God would be that cruel? Once you open the door, and start questioning things, the whole thing begins to unravel. You can't be religious unless you have faith. If you stick to empirical knowledge, you won't find God.
I've found that nature is incredible. Now and in the past. The real universe is enough for me. I don't need to look further. It took me a long time to get to this point, and I wasn't out to attack God.
I'm not so sure about Free Will, though. I see randomness in the Universe, and even if a single atom's movement cannot be predicted with absolute certainty, causation unravels. So I'm still on the side of Free Will.
Then again, I don't remember ever really having a fork in the road of my life. They only look like choices in retrospect.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Good stuff, Base. Thanks.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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I guess that the story where you are born, you live, you die and turn to dirt isn't very appealing. Particularly the part where you go to sleep and never wake up. It is hard to imagine mortality, that when we die, we blink out and that is it.
That would be easy, but that is not how we are told it will happen, so then how to deal?...
Matthew 25:31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
...It's reassuring to know that Jesus is the answer to the here and the here after!
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nice to read the non I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I,-it's-obvious,-you're-clueless interactions here.Thanks!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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what do you think of Fox TV's Lucifer series?
jgill, it's fun that you like that show, too. It has some great portrayals of our human strengths and frailties. The take on Lucifer is interesting. Less about being evil, more likeguy who likes to play and party and has no patience or pity for people who do hurtful things to others...
Malemute, religion isn't about evidence - it's about having faith without or in spite of evidence. If you had proof for your faith it wouldn't be faith anymore.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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With regard to evidence:
NTERVIEWER
But doesn’t science address an objective notion of reality while religion addresses how we conceive of ourselves?
ROBINSON
As an achievement, science is itself a spectacular argument for the singularity of human beings among all things that exist. It has a prestige that comes with unambiguous changes in people’s experience—space travel, immunizations. It has an authority that’s based on its demonstrable power. But in discussions of human beings it tends to compare downwards: we’re intelligent because hyenas are intelligent and we just took a few more leaps.
The first obligation of religion is to maintain the sense of the value of human beings. If you had to summarize the Old Testament, the summary would be: stop doing this to yourselves. But it is not in our nature to stop harming ourselves. We don’t behave consistently with our own dignity or with the dignity of other people. The Bible reiterates this endlessly.
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