Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
Religion teaches me nothing new and exacerbates the claustrophobia and suffering I've felt living a world where people refuse to act on reason and choose blind faith to justify and explain their actions.
So you believe that no one aligning their life with the bible is acting on reason to explain and justify their actions?
|
|
Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
|
|
I toast the Moon-Ark, long may she nap.
|
|
Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
|
|
Blue, I'm saying for me religion was untenable and I saw many phony acting and hypocritical people in the church. It didn't appear to me that some were happy in their faith. After many starts and stops, I found I had no proclivity for it...faith.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
Mind readers are awesome, Paul. I wish I were so sure about my own assumptions regarding other people's thoughts and beliefs.
I appreciate that, but when you can read responses and opinions you really don't need to read minds.
The Western tradition has its very foundation in the Old Testament and Homer and myths galore too bad to dismiss them so flippantly. Sadly you seem to have no idea what you're abandoning.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
"to dismiss them so flippantly..." -PR
Yeah, that's it. That's what we do.
With all due respect, Paul, I'm surprised you even found your way to using a computer - based on your posts.
Of all the things to yammer on about, in this age esp, these are your choices.
.....
Bushman, how'd you like the earth shot from a million miles out? Wasn't that super special? Wow!!
Actually, is that your pic? another with the moon in front? Or Apollo's?
Here we go...
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
many phony acting and hypocritical people...
Times have changed. Let's recall the 70s and 80s when public tv bristled with them...
Half the American public ate it up.
What a positive change... and a breath of fresh air... that today's millenials are spared this crap.
Progress. Evolution.
.....
"to dismiss them so flippantly..." -PR
Gee I wonder, what could possible causes of dismissal be?
and then... if not to "dismiss them so flippantly" then surely to dismiss them so unjustifiably.
As certainly there are no justifiable reasons, no reasonable reasons, at all. /sarc
.....
Phony? Hypocritical? Totally fictitious? Reality be damned? Truth be damned? Who cares?
Who cares? As long as it's comforting. As long as it's consoling. As long as it's a working placebo. Let em have it!!
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
With all due respect, Paul, I'm surprised you even found your way to using a computer - based on your posts.
I always enjoy your "due respect" but your assumptions are just that. You avoid the particulars of the argument and attack ad hominem. My suggestion is a reading list that includes the Torah, the Iliad and the Odyssey, Ovid and Prolegomena to Greek Religion by Jane Harrison. I've read your heroes Dawkins and Hitchens as well as Darwin, perhaps a glimpse at the other side might mediate your certainty. As for computers, I'm sure I was writing code well before you reached middle school.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
Seems a disingenuous post with all due respect.
I grew up in assembly language. Of what code do you speak? Only if you were coding before 1980 do you eclipse me. And then only in years probably not the code itself.
The lady, never heard of her, you got me there.
PS You've read Dawkins' God Delusion? He made like a thousand and one points, page after page. Point out one... ONE... that merits criticism. Of the heavy sort you seem to cast vaguely.
No ad hominem on my part. Only it seems, attitude when not factual.
"Attitude is everything." Yes, I am a believer.
Esp at such tasks as shooting past beliefs of old that no longer merit support and also those blowhard bouffants above. Good riddance.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
No Scientist has ever presented fraudulent evidence? No scientist has ever committed fraud in order to receive funding? The foibles you point to are human not religious. All disciplines are susceptible to fakery and hypocrisy as it is a human condition. The idea that the fakery of one scientist taints the entire community is ridiculous... don't you think?
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
"No Scientist has ever presented fraudulent evidence? No scientist has ever committed fraud in order to receive funding?"
Are you suggesting Dawkins made this claim?
That's ridiculous if so.
This is what your great contrarian counterpoint turns on?
Pretty weak sauce, as they say here. lol
.....
Let's be perfectly clear (for the 100th time?) as I head for bed... myth and mythology are one thing, literature too. All admirable in general terms. In contrast, the bible stories (might as well incl Quranic as well) palmed off on the young or the gullible as truth or facts are altogether something else esp in this day and time. That is what is at issue here. This long standing tradition - really a form of malpractice - and encouraged / supported of course by religious institution - needs to go bye bye the sooner the better. That is the stance, also the attitude.
.....
Hey how about an answer. You have read The God Delusion? Or not?
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
Are you suggesting Dawkins made this claim?
No, I'm suggesting that it is unreasonable to condemn an entire discipline based on the behavior of a few individuals. In that regard science is no different than religion. I wouldn't condemn the scientific method because of Dr. Mengele.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Dawkins: There really is something special about scientific evidence. Science works, planes fly, magic carpets and broomsticks don’t. Gravity is not a version of the truth, it is the truth. Anyone who doubts it is invited to jump out of a tenth floor window.
A public figure with a gigantic reputation in his line of work should surely know better than to make such claims. (Perhaps he was having a bad day.) Such arguments are frivolous, illogical, and disrespectful.
Solvitur ambulando.
(So should you.)
(See also: Argumentum ad lapidem)
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
re: (1) MikeL (2) MikeL links
So this is what a 20th century "humanities" education at a 20th century styled liberal arts school with an anti-science orientation gets you.
Think I'll pass.
But...
I look forward to more 21st century development where the "humanities" side - esp at various liberal arts schools - chooses to adapt to the sciences, chooses to integrate with the sciences and to work together - instead of picking a fight with them.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
You could put Fruitcake in the same picture above.
Both are crazy extremists who have no clue each on the opposite sides of their own fence.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
Good grief the liberal arts aren't anti science. I'm certainly not anti science. Does anybody really think in order to be pro science you have to be anti religion? The brush Dawkins uses to taint religion is broad and inclusive and demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the issues.
Nobody likes fanatics no matter what their ilk. Down with fanatics and arrogance and self righteousness no matter what its source.
The source of god is the terrible mystery of being and consciousness and the natural drive to consolation ... and out of that human ingenuity and creativity have fashioned remarkably beautiful and fulfilling stories that reflect the psychological needs of a self aware intelligence grasping for reconciliation... that's all.
|
|
Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
|
|
There's the Church
There's the church and there's the steeple,
Open the doors and there's all the people,
On faith and foundation it was built,
By coercing our children with their guilt,
Now where can I even begin?
Born as I was with original sin,
Indoctrinated that Christ was my friend,
And relying on him I could always depend,
But my thoughts were no secret not even from him,
Then they warned me I'd find around every bend,
Mephistopheles to tempt me again,
Oh how I was damned from beginning to end,
There's no justice I can see,
In believing in such hypocrisy,
As I try to forgive these inequities,
When so many throughout the land,
Believe that God will guide their hand,
Let the judges and lawyers,
And their lot,
Make decisions for mammon,
May they rot,
Impartial,
I think not,
With slavery and genocide each stone was laid,
With the lives of our children the debt's always been paid,
There's the church and there's the steeple,
Open the doors and there's all the people,
-bushman
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
Mike? I thought you said that you didn't read Wikipedia. It surprised me when you said that a while back.
I personally love wiki. I can start reading about something, follow the links, and spend an hour there.
60 minutes ran a piece on Wikipedia last week. It showed how it is edited and grows. It is a self-correcting version of the old encyclopedias that I read endlessly as a kid.
It isn't a textbook, though. I checked out their well logging page, a topic that I work every single day, and found it too sparse. It isn't wrong. It just wasn't very deep.
Imagine how big Wiki will be in another 20 years.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!