The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
*
Finally some corroboration.

"Einstein wasnt pleased with unpredictability, but what really bothered him was nonlocality. And what he wanted above all was realism - physics should describe what happens, not just what we measure. Im with Einstein." -Sean Carroll
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Nov 8, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
Credit: moosedrool

WBraun

climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
You people only know other peoples know nothing quotes and prove you really are brainwashed and know nothing yourselves .....
Jim Clipper

climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
You people only know other peoples know nothing quotes and prove you really are brainwashed and know nothing yourselves .....

apologies, carry on
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 8, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
I am an athiest who, I believe, leads a reasonably moral life. When I see so many avowed christians lead what I believe are hypocritical lives where morals are secondary to closely held beliefs...I am not swayed to join their ranks.
I fail to see a positive relationship to having a religious affiliation and practicing good morals.
Jim Clipper

climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
Maybe an aside, but prayer and deep meditation have been shown to increase happiness (fMRI). Also, I admire the dude, living on something closer to the minimum. Whether wearing a loin cloth and living on alms in the street, or dressing down at the Vatican, there are some folks that do their best to provide an example, while maintaining some interesting cultural traditions.

I heard the monks at Ang Kor Wat refuse to rebuild it. The trees, and the jungle are crumbling structures. Some at UNESCO disagreed. I thought that was beautiful. I side with the monks.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 8, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
There will soon be an app that will render this thread obsolete

AI systems shed light on root cause of religious conflict: Humanity is not naturally violent

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181031080630.htm

Artificial intelligence can help us to better understand the causes of religious violence and to potentially control it, according to a new Oxford University collaboration. The study is one of the first to be published that uses psychologically realistic AI -- as opposed to machine learning.

The study published in The Journal for Artificial Societies and Social Simulation, combined computer modelling and cognitive psychology to create an AI system able to mimic human religiosity, allowing them to better understand the conditions, triggers and patterns for religious violence.

The study is built around the question of whether people are naturally violent, or if factors such as religion can cause xenophobic tension and anxiety between different groups, that may or may not lead to violence?

The findings reveal that people are a peaceful species by nature. However, in a wide range of contexts they are willing to endorse violence -- particularly when others go against the core beliefs which define their identity.
Jim Clipper

climber
Nov 8, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
AI systems shed light on root cause of religious conflict

Feed the people. AI?
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Nov 9, 2018 - 05:25am PT
There's no doubt that what Jon Beck writes is true - religions are a major source of violence and intolerance all over the world. The way to rein it in is to pass laws protecting children from religious indoctrination. It really is a type of child abuse. Particularly when parents try to home school their children and isolate them from people with different ideas.
WBraun

climber
Nov 9, 2018 - 08:22am PT
Artificial intelligence can help us to better understand the causes of religious violence and to potentially control it,

Another wack job horsesh!t from clueless idiots.

When a so-called religion promotes violence it automatically IS NOT a religion but masquerading as one.

Since clueless idiots have no real clue what religion actually is they make up this kind of horrsesh!t that a sterile law and an artificial app can do anything.

You people keep proving you are as insane and st00pid as those masquerading so-called religions .....
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Nov 9, 2018 - 08:40am PT
Most religious violence is just a mask for political violence as in Catholics vs. Protestants in Ireland. The idea that you can legislate religion away is just plain silly.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Nov 9, 2018 - 08:46am PT
Most religious violence is just a mask for political violence as in Catholics vs. Protestants in Ireland.

Oh come on that is a gross over-simplification.

The strings that are pulled to leverage and incite violence cross the socio-economic spectrum. Its not just politics. Its not just religion, or nationalism, or poverty; it's usually all of them in some combo.

No pass on religion there.

DMT
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Nov 9, 2018 - 09:13am PT
The strings that are pulled to leverage and incite violence cross the socio-economic spectrum. Its not just politics. Its not just religion, or nationalism, or poverty; it's usually all of them in some combo.

I would say that's exactly the point. Find any conflict that appears to be primarily religious, ostensibly religious and behind it you'll find political and socio economic forces at work. And all of it boils down to the notion of control and ultimately that control is a function of political need. Israelis vs. Palestinians/ haves vs. have nots. Catholics vs. Protestants/ haves vs. have nots.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 9, 2018 - 11:12am PT


Only in America?


From Scandinavia: En norsk poet, noen fulle dansker og en gjeng fjellaper kan skape magi nr som helst i uken.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 12, 2018 - 08:26am PT
This should be called the Abraham vs Galileo thread. Abraham is given major respect with all three of the major religions (Jesus only rates in one) and Galileo is considered the father of modern science.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:07am PT
The strings that are pulled to leverage and incite violence cross the socio-economic spectrum. Its not just politics. Its not just religion, or nationalism, or poverty; it's usually all of them in some combo.

You forgot to include technology in that witch's brew.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:08am PT
"Einstein wasnt pleased with unpredictability, but what really bothered him was nonlocality. And what he wanted above all was realism - physics should describe what happens, not just what we measure. Im with Einstein." -Sean Carroll

except you can't have all three...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem
"These three key concepts locality, realism, freedom are highly technical and much debated. In particular, the concept of realism is now somewhat different from what it was in discussions in the 1930s. It is more precisely called counterfactual definiteness; it means that we may think of outcomes of measurements that were not actually performed as being just as much part of reality as those that were made. Locality is short for local relativistic causality. (Currently accepted quantum field theories are local in the terminology of the Lagrangian formalism and axiomatic approach.) Freedom refers to the physical possibility of determining settings on measurement devices independently of the internal state of the physical system being measured...
...What is powerful about Bell's theorem is that it doesn't refer to any particular physical theory. It shows that nature violates the most general assumptions behind classical pictures, not just details of some particular models. No combination of local deterministic and local random variables can reproduce the phenomena predicted by quantum mechanics and repeatedly observed in experiments."

that is what is "happening"
WBraun

climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:22am PT
Because the gross materialists are ultimately clueless to the absolute truth they immediately assume everyone else is too ....
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:49am PT
The technocracy movement is a social movement which arose in the early 20th century. Technocracy was popular in the United States and Canada for a brief period in the early 1930s, before it was overshadowed by other proposals for dealing with the crisis of the Great Depression.[1] The technocracy movement proposed replacing politicians and businesspeople with scientists and engineers who had the technical expertise to manage the economy.[2]

Has technocracy been resurrected in the last couple decades?

In the post-war years, perhaps due to the growing distrust of socialism in the cold war, membership and interest in technocracy decreased. Though now relatively insignificant, the Technocracy movement survives into the present day,[5] and as of 2013, was continuing to publish a newsletter, maintain a website, and hold member meetings.[6]

Don't believe for a minute that the technocratic movement has been reduced to a couple of websites and newspapers and "membership meetings".

TN has identified Elon Musk as a Technocrat on the basis of beliefs and actions. What we did not know is that his Canadian grandfather, Joshua Haldeman, was an avid supporter of Technocracy ...

What is the more salient examples of technocracy in our era which Is emergent at this very moment?

The Social Credit System (Chinese: 社会信用体系; pinyin: shhu xnyng tǐx) is a national reputation system being developed by the Chinese government.[1][2][3] By 2020, it is intended to standardise the assessment of citizens' and businesses' economic and social reputation, or 'credit'

The system is a form of mass surveillance which uses big data analysis technology.[1
.

Sound familiar ?

Leaders of the Communist Party of China are mostly professional engineers.

All the great totalitarian social and political experiments of the modern age have a strong whiff of technocracy.
This dystopian ideology may have been given a fresh new lease on life by the development of new technologies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

What do you think is more of a threat to freedom and self-determinism in the future,
hordes of pathetic religious zealots or global technocrats with a secular totalitarian frame of mind hovering over big data surveillance systems?





Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:58am PT
Leaders of the Communist Party of China are mostly professional engineers.

All the great totalitarian social and political experiments of the modern age have a strong whiff of technocracy.
This dystopian ideology may have been given a new life by the development of new technologies.

Interesting points. I'll have to fester on that a while.

DMT
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