Rock Climbing And Life Insurance Article - Feedback/Opinions

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Chris.Waterway

climber

Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 26, 2014 - 07:06am PT

Hello, I recently wrote an article regarding the relationship between climbing and life insurance and would like your opinion and take on the subject.

I own a high risk life insurance agency where we insure people who have medical complications or participate in "risky" hobbies or occupations.

My goal of the article is to 1) make sure it is helpful for climbers in what they can expect when applying for life insurance 2) be sure the terms and statistics used are accurate.

Please take a look at the article and please give me any feedback. Also, if you have purchased life insurance as a climber please let me know your results and experience.

ARTICLE

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Sep 26, 2014 - 08:30am PT

It is impossible to get term life insurance (at any price) if you do any technical scuba diving, except from the Diver's Alert Network (DAN).

I think whole life insurance companies don't care what you do in your spare time.

Chris.Waterway

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2014 - 09:27am PT

Ron: thanks for that one ;) We aren't all that bad

Dingus: Thank you for the input, and you are correct with your statements. You mentioned the "contestability period" which is if you die in the first two years. This is typical of any insurance policy, meaning if you die in the first two years of the contract they can investigate to make sure you weren't lying on the application.

I recently had a family member pass away from cancer 2 weeks before the 2 year period was over. She was fine when she applied and didn't lie, but still the investigation is ongoing. They will pay out, but unfortunately it will take longer.

Absolutely, do not lie on application but don't volunteer more information than asked.

Sierra: We actually do work with scuba divers as well, and it is definitely a case by case basis (much like climbing). Generally, underwriting is not much different between term and whole life. The difference really comes in depending on how much coverage you are applying for. Whole life just typically has lower face amounts.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Sep 26, 2014 - 09:50am PT

One of the questions is , what are your plans for climbs in the future. I had no plans to wall climb at the time, and am "prefered" pricing.

There would be marks, rapid acceleration marks as the go pedal hits the floorboard :)

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Sep 26, 2014 - 11:55am PT

I started climbing in 1967. I got my first life insurance policy when I got married in 1983. By then, insurance companies were aware that climbing could increase risk, so I've always had to answer questions about my climbing to obtain a policy.

I found your article accurate, although the sophistication of the questions has increased over the years. Now, in addition to differentiating between gym climbing and outdoor, they also ask about the difficulty of climbs I lead, where I climb, etc. Experience surely matters. I keep thinking of the late Tom Patey's definition of a beginner: "someone (usually dead) who should be kept from the cliff at all cost."

I envy experienced climbers who think that climbers suffer a lower mortality rate than the general population. When I was a beginner, I thought so, too. After 47 years, I've lost too many friends who made mistakes "only a beginner would make." I do suspect, however, that at my age, the fact that I still climb demonstrates that I'm an active senior citizen, thus making me a more desirable risk (hint, for my next application).

John

nah000

climber

canuckistan

Sep 27, 2014 - 12:59am PT

while i'm not a fan of bumping an unpaid advertisement, this is such an important topic to me i can't resist a little psa styled mini sermon...

i've got a couple friends who live relatively risk accepting lifestyles and assume, despite my telling them otherwise, that life insurance is going to be either too expensive or impossible to get and so don't bother... if you've got a significant other or kids you owe it to them to at least apply... and if you are young, you might be as surprised as i was... while it was a few years back [but less than ten] i got a $250k policy with one of the major insurers, including riders for climbing and being, at the time, an extremely noob paraglider and i pay about $220 per year on a 20 year term policy...

point being, if you're young, in good health, and a non-smoker, you might be surprised how affordable the costs of a small policy are, even if you are a climber or etc...

hellroaring

Trad climber

San Francisco

Sep 27, 2014 - 12:16pm PT

It was awhile ago but I remember relevant questions scattered between ones written by someone who obviously had never tied into a climbing rope. There seemed to be a particular emphasis on rapelling. In a nutshell it all came down to.how much, how hard, & how high. I ended up having to pay a higher rate, they claimed it was the pysch meds and not the climbing. Also I will echo it again, never lie. They look for ANY excuse not to pay out so don't give them one.

Stevee B

Trad climber

Oakland, CA

May 26, 2015 - 02:19pm PT

Can you still get insured if you have ever soloed, even at low grades (5.0-5.8)?
What if you have no plans to solo harder than 5.6 in the future?
Anyone have experience, or know of impacts?

WBraun

climber

May 26, 2015 - 04:32pm PT

Life insurance

There's no such thing.

It doesn't exist.

It's sold under money insurance you die they give money.

Meanwhile you remain dead ......

zBrown

Ice climber

Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby

May 26, 2015 - 08:03pm PT

I 'spose you get what you pay for, or is it what you ask for?

Death is the only wise advisor that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet.”

Studly

Trad climber

May 26, 2015 - 09:10pm PT

I buy life insurance, its called a rope.

WBraun

climber

May 26, 2015 - 09:13pm PT

A free soloist uses the rope that money can't buy ......

zBrown

Ice climber

Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby

May 27, 2015 - 12:35pm PT

Always preferred the love that money can't buy myself.

Sport climber

Sonora Ca

May 27, 2015 - 03:18pm PT

is vaped climbing insurable?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

May 27, 2015 - 05:50pm PT

It is impossible to get term life insurance (at any price) if you do any technical scuba diving

Is that scuba with a rope?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 14, 2016 - 09:29pm PT

So I applied to USAA for life insurance, took a physical and filled out their climbing questionnaire and got turned down. So I call USAA and they said it's because I climb harder than 5.10. I go 'huh' and he says they just follow the underwriting book put out by Swiss RE reinsurance corp.

Ok, so wtf, I go to Swiss RE's website to see who I can talk to about their underwriting rules and BAM - RIGHT IN THE FACE on the front page of their website!!! Talk about adding insult to injury...

20_kN

Sport climber

20 kN Land

Sep 14, 2016 - 09:37pm PT

^^^hahha you think that is bad, I've outright caught insurance companies lying about covering climbing accidents. I am not talking about third party vendors, I am talking about the underwriters themselves. I've been to websites (the underwriters', not third parties) who explicitly state that climbing is covered. In fact, they have a section of their website that goes into great detail about how rock climbing is covered including everything from sport climbing to trad to even free soloing. They even give descriptions of what they consider sport, trad and free soloing to consist of, and repeatedly they state that it's covered at no additional cost.

Then I get into the actual policy and under the exclusions section in fine print, bam, there it is. Mountaineering with ropes, rock climbing and abseiling are specifically mentioned as excluded and non-payable. I file a complaint with the BBB for fraudulent advertising and their response was "from time to time we make changes on our website and we cannot be held liable if the information does not match the policy." Give me a break.

Case in point, trust no one. Even if the policy says it's covered, there is still a list of people a mile long who are complaining that their claims have been denied for bullshit reasons. Insurance companies get sued on an hourly basis over this sh#t.

20_kN

Sport climber

20 kN Land

Sep 15, 2016 - 01:18am PT

^Of what state? Unless we're talking about a specific agent that you saw locally, most of these insurance companies are black holes. The agent is some random website out of a state far from where you live and the underwriter is some massive international corporation with an HQ outside the USA.

The guy above just gave an example. He said he tried to buy a policy through USAA which was actually sold through Swiss RE, and I bet if he actually bought it the underwriter on the policy might not even be Swiss RE, it could be a third company. That third company might then be a subsidiary of an even larger company, most of which is probably located outside the USA.

So I guess I am not sure what some state office is going to do about a multinational conglomerate that sold you a policy via the Internet or phone.