Define FA/FFA

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Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2014 - 09:43am PT
Hubers are bad ass, but they do not set the rules for all climbers in the universe. I think personally I would not care to repeat a long multi pitch route if I was climbing a crack system, came across a path of dirt in a spot that is not a crux, took, cleaned it, got lowered to below and resumed free climbing. If I had to hang to place a bolt near the crux it would depend on if my hang let me get a crucial rest or advance my stance. If I did not receive a benefit from this hang, other than placing gear, I wouldn’t feel like I need to ‘redpoint’ the pitch if I am on a FA with intention for a free route. When you are doing FAs of long free routes there are all kinds of situations. You can be climbing on easier terrain after the crux, even standing at a stance, but have the need to anchor yourself in and pull a giant loose block. I wouldn’t call the route 5.10 C0 if I did that on a FA. If I was doing a one pitch route at a crag, it would be very easy to be lowered and redpoint, if I can/care. I think Limpingcrab summarized it best. If I was doing a FFA of an aid route, I would lean towards what Hubers say – no falls, no takes by the leader. FFA team already has 75% of the work done, unless the FFAers are figuring out major variations, they have a topo, know the route goes, so in order to make a statement about the style they have to keep their ascent to the highest standard. I mean, in the end it is just personal satisfaction with your ascent. Either you know you did your best, or you didn’t. Are you happy with the work you put in, or you are not.
Jon Clark

climber
philadelphia
Sep 17, 2014 - 10:01am PT
Vitaly,

Whether or not you thought you did your best in the hypothetical situation you proposed in your latest post, you couldn't claim a free ascent if the ascent included a hang. You'd have to lower to a no hands rest at a minimum. However, you could certainly claim the FA. I think it would be disingenuous to report your hypothetical ascent as a free ascent.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
Jon, if I wanted to CLAIM a free ascent of an aid route, I would for sure do it without hangs or takes etc. If I was doing some routes that I didn’t care to advertise, it would be up to me when to call it good, what sort of free I am happy with, since I am not claiming it to anyone aside to myself, it doesn’t matter.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Sep 17, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
If a climb is established as a free climb is aided on a later ascent, is it the FAA? The BY might go at 5.8 A5 ???
Jon Clark

climber
philadelphia
Sep 17, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
Vitaliy,

I'm not trying to be combative. Rather simply joining in the discussion and responding to a situation you presented. I think if you hang on a pitch regardless of the reason and in spite of whether or not you think you benefitted from the hang or not, it is aid.

-Jon
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 17, 2014 - 01:20pm PT
I like the FAA idea! I'm gonna start bagging all of the first aid ascents! Nutcracker here I come
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 17, 2014 - 01:36pm PT
The only way I ever get a first ascent, is when I get lost. I know it, by holds coming off in my hands and getting showered by choss.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
I'm not trying to be combative.

Same here. Just clarifying.

Drive By Shooting in Yosemite was an aid climb for me last Sunday. :( Unfortunately I think not the first. haha
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 17, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
To me, a successful free ascent is one where all the gear was completely unnecessary (except for mental comfort). The gear was never weighted, at belays or otherwise. If you were strong of mind, a free ascent could have very well been a free solo.

Because of the logistics on longer routes, the definition of "free" gets bent to accommodate the need for folks to claim a free ascent. But in our hearts (as has been said), we all know when we really free the sucker.

Unless you're sponsored and your 8a resume matters, the style of your ascent should matter only to you, I suppose. (It goes to say, barring the destruction of the resource!)


Onsight Flash FA that's all free, the best style ever!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 17, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
I think some of the folks posting on this subject might not have a clue what it is like free climbing with 45lbs of steel, alluminum, plastic and lithium Ion hanging off your ass on terrain that has never been touched by humans. You get extra point simply for lugging that crap up the cliff. On a really big route lowering to the last no hands stance is more than sufficient INMOP

Cragging, thanks to sport climbers you have to lower to the ground and pull the rope. BINTD you could lower but leave the rope running through the highest gear, switch leaders and send a fresh rope gun up there and still get the FFA. Sport climbers ruined all that and gave us even more rules;)
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
The difference between doing a repeat ascent of a route verses the first ascent, is like buying a movie ticket or actually being Robert De Niro


































You talkin to me?
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
 The gear was never weighted, at belays or otherwise. If you were strong of mind, a free ascent could have very well been a free solo.

I don't always do first free ascents of 5.6 routes, but when I do, I do not weight the gear at belays. ;)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 18, 2014 - 02:50am PT
Vitality M for the win!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 18, 2014 - 07:40am PT
I don't always do first free ascents of 5.6 routes, but when I do, I do not weight the gear at belays. ;)


Ah, but can the opposite be said?
Messages 41 - 54 of total 54 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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