People don't kill people, guns do!


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Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 3, 2014 - 10:44am PT
Chief, go back to your other GunNutz® thread.



Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 3, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
It was stupidity that killed that guy; The little girl said the gun was too much for her to handle, but that did'nt seem to occur to either the parents or the instructor until it was too late.

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 3, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
9yr old has no buisness shooting anything other than a .22. preferable a single shot or a bolt action. teaches them to be accurate and make their shots count. semi auto promotes spray and pray. the thing that makes this accident so inexcuseable is that it has happened bfore. Westfield MA the cheif of police was running a machinegun shoot and let a simeler age kid shoot an UZI. it got away from the kid and the kid was killed. Any serious fire arms instructor should know of that incident.

Social climber
Sep 3, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
anyone care to speak to the psychology of the girl's parents who had no problem bring her to a gun range and making arrangement to have her instructed on how to properly handle an Uzi?

create a psychological profile, a matrix of perhaps personality traits, for the parents

I have some ideas but I am always more interesting in reading what other people think, as I already know what i think

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 3, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
No clue? I grew up on a farm so it was simply what you did. Start out with sling shots then graduate to bb gun. started shooting the single shot .22 at 7ys old and put on pest control not too long after that. hunting, fishing and killing anything that messed with the crops or livestock is what you did. did not know any different. I can gaurentee though that my dad would not in any way shape or form allow me to shoot an UZI at 9ys old. probobly arround 11ish? I started shooting a single shot 20ga shotgun. probobly shot the .303 british (bolt action) at 12 and was given that rifle at 14.

Trad climber
Sep 3, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
You can tell it's true fetishism when people can't even concede that someone might be too young to fire an automatic weapon and instead blame the "supervision."

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 3, 2014 - 06:54pm PT
The supervision was obviously dumber than a brick to even contemplate allowing a kid that young to shoot a submachinegun.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Sep 3, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Maybe the point of this unfortunate event and all the posts here both pro and con say one thing -

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Trad climber
vagabond movin on
Sep 3, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
Kids should stick to flashlights.


Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:23am PT
you took my bait. Obviously my sarcasm was above your head.
You will note my serious intent. I merely point out the idiocy of insisting that ANYONE has a right to own/fire any weapon. This should be obvious to any rational adult.
It is pure criminal negligence that someone would put a loaded Uzi into a chid's hands as if it were an arcade playtoy.

Even the army standard M16 is a 3 shot burst.
I read a very good operational rationale for that.
Yes, the Army probably spent (some might say wasted) millions of dollars on the studies.
In the end they worked out that if the first 3 shots haven't hit or taken down the target the next dozen probably won't. So the 3 shot limit is just good shooting science. Don't waste the ammo, don't let the shooter keep spraying, making himself a target. Instead take time to correct her aim. Make her THINK dagnabbit!
Blowing a dozen rounds around the vicinity of a target who can evade or shoot back is counter productive.
Besides ammo is expensive to buy, to store and especially to ship to the front.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:45am PT
I disagree.

Trad climber
East Coast US
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:59am PT

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 4, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
Can somebody please explain to me how it is illegal for a 9 y/o to purchase a weapon (isn't it?)...esp. an Uzi...?

...and yet it is legal for a 9 y/o to shoot one?

And how a business can be created around this?

The Westfield, MA incident...eerily similar, except an 8 year old kid winds up killing himself when losing control of the Uzi:

Meanwhile, the usual ST GunNutz® remain pretty quiet on this one....

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 5, 2014 - 02:47am PT
Ron O.
yes it is possible to teach a kid that age how to shoot a sub gun but is it the right thing to do? I have to dissagree with you and say it is not. teach them to be safe and accurate with bolt, lever and pump. It teaches shot diciplin. leave the semi auto and full auto for when they get older. heck you can teach a kid lots of things that are best left alone until the kid grows up a bit. what is the big rush?

Trad climber
Sep 5, 2014 - 06:31am PT
NRA News shamelessly promotes viewer-submitted pictures of children with firearms, some engaged in unsafe gun practices
Meanwhile, these accidental shootings by children in the U.S. happened within just one month: August 2nd - September 2nd, 2014.

A 7-year-old boy shot himself at his family’s homemade shooting range in California:
The boy was reportedly firing a single-shot, .22 bolt action youth rifle under his father’s supervision. When the boy cried out, his father noticed there was a small hole in his shirt, then blood.
A 9-year-old girl accidentally shot and killed her instructor with an Uzi in Arizona:
"(The mother) was visibly upset and shaken," the report reads. She said "the gun went off and saw (her daughter) drop the gun. (The girl) turned to her and told her the gun was too much for her and it hurt her shoulder. (The mother) said no one knew Vacca was shot until the other instructor ran over."
A 4-year-old boy in Texas was injured after he found his parents’ handgun:
The boy climbed into his parents’ bedroom closet in their home on the 600 block of Destin Drive and found their .38-caliber gun on the top shelf, Fort Worth police said. The gun was loaded and unlocked when the boy pulled the trigger.
A 13-year-old boy was shot and killed by his 14-year-old friend while they were handling a rifle in Oklahoma:
Police say initially the other teens said the victim shot himself with the gun, but after questioning them separately, police say the 14-year-old accidentally fired the gun … Police say the rifle used was stolen from a home in Midwest City in 2011. Right now investigators don’t know how the gun ended up in the teens hands.
A 9-year-old girl died after shooting herself with her father’s gun:
"The young lady was searching or looking around, found the weapon, was pulling it out of the drawer an the gun discharged as he was pulling it out of the drawer," said Police Chief Rex Brown. Brown said the bullet hit her in the head.
A 7-year-old boy in Tennessee shot and killed himself with his grandfather’s pistol:
Hills’ grandfather, Dana Buck, said he was in the living room watching TV when he heard a shot. He ran to the bedroom and found Hills, who had accidentally shot himself with a pistol.
A 3-year-old boy in Chicago, IL was critically injured after finding his father’s handgun and accidentally shooting himself in the head:
Police said the boy was in a closet with at least one other child and playing with the gun when it discharged, hitting the boy in the head and leaving him in critical condition. Police said the boy’s father took the gun, the remaining rounds and fled the scene.
In Tennessee, a 10-year-old boy shot himself in the foot while hunting:
According to TWRA, the 10-year-old was dove hunting at the Buffalo Springs Wildlife Management Area in Grainger County when he accidentally shot himself in the foot. He was taken by medical helicopter to UT Medical Center with non-life threatening injuries.
A 3-year-old boy accidentally shot himself in the face in Atlanta:
The 3-year-old was taken to a local hospital for treatment, according to police. The newspaper spoke with a neighbor, Ivey McMullen, who said she “heard people screaming that ‘the baby shot himself.’”
A 7-year-old boy in Ohio shot himself while playing in his grandparents’ backyard:
Police said the boy was in his back yard on Impala Dr. with his brother. They found a gun, and began playing with it … Colerain police said that the boys live with their grandparents, and there does not seem to be a lot of supervision. Officers will also look into how the boys were able to get a gun so easily.
A 15-year-old boy shot himself in the face after he found a hidden key to his parent’s gun safe while they were at work:
[He] found a hidden key to the gun safe and was able to get to a handgun inside. The 15-year-old told police that the gun went off as he was putting it back in the gun safe … Police said the parents told them they didn’t think their children knew where the gun safe key was hidden.
So how’s our country handling this pattern of violence resulting from children handling firearms? A child can still legally own a rifle or shotgun in 30 states.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 5, 2014 - 06:36am PT
Teaching a nine year old to shoot a machine gun is the stupidest f*#king thing I ever heard.


Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:07am PT
I don't think there was a real attempt to "teach" much here. Some of those ranges sort of act like an amusement park. "Come shoot a machinegun"... etc...

Unfortunately certain short barreled machineguns are like chainsaws and probably shouldn't be handled by children or small adults.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:10am PT
I don't think there was a real attempt to "teach" much here. Some of those ranges sort of act like an amusement park. "Come shoot a machinegun"... etc...

Right, gross negligence is clearly legal in Arizona. But I was referring to the contention that is somehow acceptable to be teaching a 9-year old how to fire an automatic weapon.

Goddamned f*#king stupid.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:43am PT
While i totally agree it was a stupid thing to do, John Q public often says the same thing about Solo climber deaths- a damm stupid thing to do. There is a show called a million ways to die or something like that. It clearly demonstrates the vast amount of stupid things people do that end up tragically. And Gun owners certainly dont have that market cornered.

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:51am PT
I think most are in agreement that handing a short-barreled machinegun to a child is a stupid thing to do...
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