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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 19, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
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I'm here for your amusement, Jimmy. Glad you can laugh over this.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 20, 2014 - 08:39am PT
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re: ISIS, Muslims and libs
"However, there is another thing I do get emotional about—and that’s the threat of Islam, especially when it is systematically obfuscated by my fellow liberals who should know better. If you want to get to the core of my response, emotionally, here is the kind of thing that drives me absolutely nuts: If a Jewish artist in New York covered a copy of the Koran in pig blood, and the act were well publicized, half the Muslims on earth would take to the streets. But when a group like ISIS starts crucifying noncombatants, or attempts to starve 40,000 men, women, and children to death on the side of a mountain, there are no significant protests at all. This psychopathic skewing of priorities extends not only to the “Arab street” and its lynch mobs; it extends to the talking heads on CNN. Spokesmen for a group like CAIR, devious blowhards like Reza Aslan, and liberal apologists like Glenn Greenwald would also attack the artist—and, if he got butchered by a jihadist on Park Avenue, they would say that although such violence had nothing at all to do with the noble of faith of Islam, the poor bastard surely got what was coming to him. He was too provocative; he should have had more “religious sensitivity.” And yet these people say scarcely a word about the mass murders of Muslims, by Muslims, committed on a daily basis in a score of countries."
Sam Harris to Andrew Sullivan
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/making-sense-of-gaza
"Everything we needed to know about the masochism and moral blindness of the Left, we should have learned during the Salman Rushdie affair. There we saw the whole problem in miniature—the infantile rage of religious maniacs concerned about their so-called “dignity” side-by-side with the complacency, sanctimony, hypocrisy, and cowardice of their liberal apologists."
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 20, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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HFCS, great video at the beginning of the thread.
To hear Muslims debating this subject is awesome.
The western shirt brother at 8:30ish was my favorite commentary.
Oh, the women also had the best comments.
ISIS is a product of stupid American meddling all over the planet .....
ISIS is a product of religion and religious zealots, period.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Aug 20, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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What I really can't fathom is how anyone can inflict such a thing on another. I can understand defending oneself when faced with an armed agressor bent on doing one harm. But to calmly carry out such an act on someone incapable of fighting back?
Also, why does the killer need to hide his identity if he truly believes his cause is just and he has the support of Muslims "world wide?"
I just don't get it.
Obviously you don't get it. How could a person from a western country and with a functioning brain comprehend the idea of cutting some random person's head in the name of god. It is sad that people can still be brainwashed by religious nuts. Such a powerful tool, damn. Really sad about the guy who died and his family must be going through hell now. RIP.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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Aug 20, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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I once read somewhere that ISIS is special tactical op group paid and financed by Saudis and Qatar government, and supplied by Israeli to DE-stabilize ME ( Iraq, Kurdistan and Syria in particular ).
Why ?
For years Nato has been working to corner Russia so they could access Russian oil and gas supply. As most of you do not know, Russian supplies great deal of gas and oil to Europe so plan B was to run a backup oil and gas pipeline from Qatar and Saudi via Iraq and Syria to Europe but that agenda did not go well. plan C was to change the Gov of Syria to get this pipeline a across but as usual, it failed also so Plan D came along to create ISIS .Next phase of ISIS is to create global panic so war on terror can continue for ever and yet, get this pipeline across ME to Europe.
Is not for Islam or to take down the Jews or Christians.....blah blah blah,
It is all for OIL
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 20, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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It is all for OIL
Yeah, and climbing is all for wearing a sit harness.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 20, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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With great reluctance, I need to weigh in. This is nothing new, and nothing unique to (or even originating from) Abrahamic religion, as any student of ancient history can tell you.
Unfortunately, it's not confined to ancient history. In 1915, in Kharpert (now Harpoot or Harput, Turkey) my mother was jailed, and my grandfather tortured and killed, for the "crime" of being Christian Armenians. Any Muslim Armenians were immediately released. My mother escaped only because her uncle (my grandfather's brother) was a professor in a German seminary, and the German government intervened before anything more could happen to them.
My mother, at age 102, still has her mind, and can tell you about it, although she would rather not. She maintains no animus against the Turks, nor any against Islam per se, but she knows how to differentiate evil from good. ISIS has no mitigating attributes for its barbarism. It disgusts me that some on the forum would blame others for ISIS's actions. It isn't about religion (else, how to explain the mass murders of those famous religious adherents Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al.). It is simply the manifestation of moral bankruptcy.
A belief that a lawless group has the right to murder, plunder or otherwise abuse anyone else is simply and profoundly evil, regardless of whether it's cloaked in religion, ideology, anti-racism or any other excuse. The idea that a lawful government can do the same is equally despicable. We can argue over what the United States has the power and the duty to do regarding a well-dsiciplined but immorally violent group like ISIS, but trying to assess blame anywhere but the perpetrators demonstrates a most distressing abdication of responsibility to deal with it.
John
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 20, 2014 - 02:30pm PT
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There are great evils. They do not last long. Goodbye ISIS.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 20, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
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My mother, at age 102, still has her mind, and can tell you about it, although she would rather not. She maintains no animus against the Turks, nor any against Islam per se, but she knows how to differentiate evil from good. ISIS has no mitigating attributes for its barbarism. It disgusts me that some on the forum would blame others for ISIS's actions. It isn't about religion (else, how to explain the mass murders of those famous religious adherents Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al.). It is simply the manifestation of moral bankruptcy.
A belief that a lawless group has the right to murder, plunder or otherwise abuse anyone else is simply and profoundly evil, regardless of whether it's cloaked in religion, ideology, anti-racism or any other excuse. The idea that a lawful government can do the same is equally despicable. We can argue over what the United States has the power and the duty to do regarding a well-dsiciplined but immorally violent group like ISIS, but trying to assess blame anywhere but the perpetrators demonstrates a most distressing abdication of responsibility to deal with it.
John
I could not agree more, John.
What you and your mother are probably too dignified to say publicly, I will.
Kill all these people that do this! These people are evil incarnate. These people are not welcome into the society of mankind, they are demons. That is the only way I can find to describe someone who would personally sever the head of another innocent person.
It's f*#king sickening to me, and it makes me very angry.
EDIT:
Yo ISIS, guess what? Hell is coming for you from the wings of the greatest Air Force and Navy pilots in the world.
Sorry folks, sometimes Sergeant Birchell comes out.
It's o.k. to oppose rats like this, Bruce. But you know this....
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 23, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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"If you can believe it, I'm hearing from people who think ISIS has nothing to do with Islam (because Scott Atran says so)."
Sam Harris, tweet
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 23, 2014 - 08:58am PT
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Hell may not be coming for ISIS except in isolated instances as Obama does not seem to
want to, at least publicly now, commit to a major confrontation with them. This is partly because a major escalation could or, at least be seen to, benefit Assad.
There just ain't no free lunch.
It turns out they are likely holding four other Americans.
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Steve Rathbun
climber
Outer Lurkistan
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Aug 23, 2014 - 09:16am PT
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Kill them all THERE before they get here. We DO have a wide-open southern border. It's not hard to get into this country.
interesting, I keep hearing this from my Christian friends.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 23, 2014 - 09:44am PT
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If there was a magic vaporizer gun, where one could pull a trigger, and poof!, all the identified ISISers would disappear without collateral damage, then do it, pull the trigger. These people are evil mother f*#kers. But we don't have that. So how should we kill them all without making problems worse?
On the other hand, I also understand the skepticism and reluctance to engage in another damned fool adventure in the middle east. Our track record is lousy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 23, 2014 - 09:46am PT
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I remember that "Isis" TV show from the 70s. That Isis actress was smokin' hot!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 23, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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It's just a mess, isn't it dirtbag? in the end even pitting lib against lib, a-theist against a-theist, anti-theist against anti-theist, climber against climber. And making strange bedfellows, too.
Speaking of such, now it looks like US will be teaming up with Assad Syria.
In the meantime, we can remember Ken M from the good old days...
How Doctors Die
http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 23, 2014 - 10:17am PT
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It is a mess. And we need to have a serious discussion, because I'm afraid this one will be difficult to ignore.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 23, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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HFCS, in your video on young muslims, I was more struck by the difference between male and females.
Of course, in most concepts of a caliphate, the males are the masters, and the females are the slaves, and they all know that.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 23, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
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It isn't about religion (else, how to explain the mass murders of those famous religious adherents Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al.). It is simply the manifestation of moral bankruptcy.
A belief that a lawless group has the right to murder, plunder or otherwise abuse anyone else is simply and profoundly evil, regardless of whether it's cloaked in religion, ideology, anti-racism or any other excuse. The idea that a lawful government can do the same is equally despicable. We can argue over what the United States has the power and the duty to do regarding a well-dsiciplined but immorally violent group like ISIS, but trying to assess blame anywhere but the perpetrators demonstrates a most distressing abdication of responsibility to deal with it.
John, you beat me to the punch.
I so agree. We have similar genocides in the last century that either we or our parents remember---Cambodia, that killed 1/4 of the population of the country, and Soviet Union, that killed millions upon millions. And those two did not involve religious people.
Religion is not the common denominator in this. In fact, it may be a cleverly concocted "cover story"---just like UBL created when he sent 18 Saudis in airplanes to attack the US, hoping we would retaliate against Saudi Arabia.
You actually wonder if what is hoped for is a widespread attack by the west on Islam, FORCING all muslims in the world to move towards ISIS, like all jews in the world moved toward Israel. It would be a clever strategy to manipulate all the westerners in this way......
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