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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Reagan would have already!!!!
That plan would no doubt have involved selling Tow missiles to Iran, having Oliver North run a drug running business with CIA assets, and shooting down Iranian jumbo jets with 290 passengers in international air space.
And he would ( did) have his Vice President Bush to use his oil connection and arrange for the Saudis to finance a bunch of guys called the mujahedin in Afganistan, while the USA smuggled in Handheld SAM missiles so they could fight the Russians.
The Saudis got the second most powerful family in Saudi Arabia to send one of their sons to help with the effort. His name was Ossama, and the family was the Bin Ladens, who were also the earliest investors in George Bush jr's oil enterprise, Arbusto oil. (Arbusto is bush, in Spanish)
That worked out really well.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Bluering does illustrate that an overly strenuous pursuit of respect often goes unrequited.
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WBraun
climber
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Smoking Duck -- "The art of War"
Wars are ultimately fought in the stream of consciousness which control the external material world.
Those who say only the limbs of the material body are doing the work are in very poor fund of knowledge ......
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Yup. He would've been stampeded into bombing Assad over the poison gas usage and ISIS would be neatly entrenched over all of Syria now.
u must be some kinda expert on rag headed idiots!
we need a president to lie to these people.. just like the star wars..
i'm all about air support..
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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To me, the best explanation of how we ended up with the modern middle east remains Fromkin's A Peace to End All Peace.
As for differences in presidential responses, I doubt that there would be any difference in substance, because from the mid-1970's forward, US intelligence in the near east was and remains vitually non-existent. At least give credit for Obama's avoiding early intervention in Syria in a way that would have strengthed ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State/Nom De Guerre Du Jour. When many were calling for intervention, we didn't know who the good guys and bad guys were, and still don't entirely.
I doubt ISIS judges likely American actions solely by what Obama says. I think they believe that we're so tired of war we'll just sit on the sidelines like we did after World War I and let them do their thing -- and they might be right. As I've maintained throughout this thread, ISIS differs from ordinary terrorism, because it is a de facto state, and our failure to respond with forceful destruction now will cause unimaginable trouble in the future. I'm not changing position, but I don't think it's fair to blame Obama for being clueless initially. He had a lot of company and help from both parties.
John
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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The Arab states need to step up to the plate and clean their own gawdamn houses. Number one on the list is my home for 4 years, Saudi Arabia.
Unfortunately, they are all smiling and shaking hands, all the while holding a dagger behind their backs in the other hand.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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My favorite T. E. Lawrence alleged "quote" was on the side of a Pasadena restaurant in the early 1980's: "'My people are the people of the dessert' said T. E. lawrence, lifting his fork."
John
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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I don't think it's fair to blame Obama
JE, relax, nobody worth their salt is blaming Obama.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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This is delicious....I do love the monday morning quarterbacking from the "chicken hawk" crowd. There must be a positive coorelation between the profundity of one's military strategizing and the lack of one's personal military experience.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Re: The Donini question: None of your business.
Edit:
Long before we, the US ever thought about heading on over there.
That's why it's kind of stupid to try and lay blame on a particular administration. We have however, been climbing in and out of bed with many of them for decades. No wonder it's a f*#ked up mess.
Carry on with your expertise though.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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We need to track down that English speakin pile of crap who's cutting those heads off and cut his mothers head off on video and broadcast it on you tube.
nice!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Hey The Chief, did you ever put a bullet directly in the top of someone's head like these ISIS dudes?
Didn't think so.
Therefore your point of view is invalid. HA!!
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
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Let me guess, WTF considers himself a Christian.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oh my Survival..... I haven't?
No, you haven't.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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On numerous occasions in support of several ops while flying CSAR crew with three different USN entities.
So, no, the answer is he hasn't.
Therefore his point of view is invalid, HAA!!!!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sorry bro, but your 214 doesn't say that you capped people directly in the head. So bring it on.
Truth is you have no idea what I did or didn't do in country, so why don't you just shut your c*#k holster for once in your life?
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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The so-called Islamic State, better known as ISIS, is not just a collection of barbaric psychopaths willing to engage in the most brutal and sordid forms of violence without any hesitation born of normal human morality. They are also the most irreparably stupid jihadists ever to slaughter their way onto the international stage.
And therein lie not only the seeds of their ultimate destruction, but the reason America should not rush in to take on these thugs. It needs to wait and see how successful ISIS’s many other enemies are in attacking it.
http://www.newsweek.com/isiss-enemy-list-10-reasons-islamic-state-doomed-268953
Exactly as I have been saying. We jump in and we get f*#ked again. How stupid can we be?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Although I agree to a point, chickenhawk arguments are nothing more than ad hominems and don't address the point made.
Do you really have to have done something to have a valid opinion on it?
Any decision on the Middle East is rife with unintended consequences.
You want to totally disengage from the ME, but think the ensuing power vacuum won't create more problems?
You want to totally engage in the ME, but think the quagmire won't cost us big time for generations?
Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.
I would advocate an isolationist policy, but then this is the 21st century. Is it reality based?
Obama has some tough decisions to make. I don't envy him.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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So Iran arrests some Pakistanis and Afghanis, crossing Iran to join ISIS. This should be interesting. Will we laugh when they hang?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29116764
Iran says it has arrested Afghan and Pakistani citizens who were trying to join Islamic State (IS) jihadists fighting in Syria and Iraq.
Iranian Interior Minister Abdolreza Rahmani said the foreigners planned to cross Iran - but did not specify how many had been arrested, or where.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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No matter who is the president, making the right decision ain't gonna be easy.
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