I offer an alternative to mass spewing about Christianity

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Messages 481 - 500 of total 521 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 1, 2014 - 10:17am PT
When god offers us cheeses, I might take him up on it.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 1, 2014 - 03:41pm PT

/fact/ noun a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts...

i've experienced, and witnessed how reading the words of the bible and praying in the name of Jesus can add to, and/or bring change to individuals lives.

This can even be seen through an MRI.

That's a Fact Jack!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 1, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Whoa...big stretch. MRI's don't show ....oh, never mind.
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Sep 1, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
Blublocr is probably referring to positron emission tomography or something similar that can show real time changes in the brain based on mood, stimulus, etc
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 1, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
more factual evidence for prayer,

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104310443
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Sep 1, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
Blue, There are lot of brain phenomena that can be seen on PET scans of the brain - the effects of drugs, meditation, thinking of gratitude, anger, sex, food, etc. - all trigger PET scan changes. For instance, acupuncture has some very interesting effects on PET scans that don't conform to sensory stimulation to the same region of the body; another is that going through the mental process of paying taxes stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain even when the subject may consciously resent the idea of paying them (may relate to some "hard wiring" around giving (increases survivability of the species?).

The changes you percieve are real to your experience and you may have observed these experiences to relate to behavior that you value. To assume those experiences to be due to direct intervention of Jesus may be your belief and you're welcome to it, but you cannot claim you have proof. That's not how science works. It is very common for people to generally assume that correlation is causation.

For instance, research shows, overall, families that have greater numbers of bathrooms in their homes have a higher percentage of family members with a higher education. Doesn't mean that adding a bathroom to your home will give your kids a greater chance of graduating from college!

Yes, there is a lot of science out there about prayer and it may be a valuable activity. The research does not prove the existence or action of anything except the directly observed phenomenon. That's how science works.

I did a very extensive review of the literature regarding the effects of fasting on physiology and the results of water fasting are quite compelling. I have observed the value of juice fasting on myself and patients for over 30 years of practice, but I have no proof because there isn't a body of published-peer reviewed studies out there. So when patients ask me about water fasting I can tell them there is compelling scientific evidence (still not enough to be proof) and on juice fasting I have extensive observation that indicates it is valuable, including making changes in physical exams and lab findings. But, juice fasting still has no compelling body of evidence or proof.

With all the scientific evidence supporting water fasting, the mechanism is still unknown and the causation of the observed benefits is unknown. So it is with prayer, from a scientific perspective we see evidence of the effect, we can infer a benefit, and we do not know the mechanism or causation from the scientific studies that have been done so far.

That doesn't mean prayer doesn't have value, but don't misrepresent the science to support your arguements.

Faith and belief are feelings and they don't have to have proof; they are what they are. Your faith and your beliefs are based on feelings you have had and the stuff you've made up to make sense of them. Someone else having same feelings will make up some other interpretation about their experience based upon the knowledge, language, and culture they have to interpret it all through. Which one is right? Which one knows the truth with a capital T? Ever hear about the Tower of Babel?

I have mystical beliefs that I hold that are outside of my "science mind" and I don't expect anyone else to believe them. Don't feel the need; not important.

There is the sh#t we make up and the stuff we say and do. Some people are willing to kill others if the other doesn't believe the sh#t they make up. Islamic fundamentalism? The Inquisition and witch trials?

We could focus more on what we say and do and on the observable effects of those toward beneficial outcomes.

Or, as the Dalai Lama says, "If you want to make others happy, practice compassion; if you want to make yourself happy, practice compassion.

Oh, and there was that other guy who was supposed to have said, "By their fruits ye shall know them."
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Sep 1, 2014 - 06:25pm PT
I have to ask.... How am I not supposed to spew about xristianity....


When it looks like this?





So.... I know nobody really expects to be given respect automatic or anything.... especially on this board... But why is it that I get the feeling that people expect something when they mention their religion to me....
how is it that I am supposed to automatically respect those who call themselves devoted to one religion or another....
When I know that they can harbor the same feelings that result in this video... sh#t like this happen every frickin day in America.... America!!!!
Where we say we will fight to the death anyone who will try to take any of that freedom from us....
We say everybody is free....

.... Unless you're gay.

Then we real Americans can turn on you like a band of hyenas and are willing to treat you with all the respect of a good kill.

Mark - you've already done too much.... leave the troll....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 1, 2014 - 06:42pm PT

That doesn't mean prayer doesn't have value, but don't misrepresent the science to support your arguements.

Nor was my intent toward this insinuation. i was merely pointing the scientist to the facts that are out there. Where that path takes them only God can predict. That is my compassion
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Sep 1, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
Christians on the left and right would all agree that Christ never mentioned or condemned or condoned homosexuality in the gospels. (Which contain his only supposed direct quotes)

Christians are sinning when they hate instead of love people, including gay people, and the huge majority of Christians are aware of that

Sadly, since its a free country, anyone can call themselves a Christian, and anyone can choose to feel hate instead of love toward their fellow man
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 1, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
the beneficial mechanism of water fasting is very like the killing off of old T cells - thus spurring the regeneration of new ones. This should help with many auto immune disorders.

Losing weight from fasting does, too. Fewer inflammatories.
timy

Sport climber
Durango
Sep 1, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
i've experienced, and witnessed how reading the words of the bible and praying in the name of Jesus can add to, and/or bring change to individuals lives.

The same could be experienced or measured in ones mood or brain activity whilst a subject was reading any such self help or hope inspiring text. That doesn't make said text to be non-fiction. Exciting or motivating perhaps, but not necessarily factual.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Sep 1, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
Christians are sinning when they hate instead of love people, including gay people, and the huge majority of Christians are aware of that

 Xtians have an option to attempt to win me over. Turn this awareness you mentioned into tangible change on the ground across the country.... Oh, I know, that's too much to ask, you are only one.. it can't be done... No biggy.... You just have to navigate my meaningless hate until I die... Then it'll be like when the teacher left the room for a long period of time and you got to run the room!!!

Sadly, since its a free country, anyone can call themselves a Christian, and anyone can choose to feel hate instead of love toward their fellow man

 Suffer my wrath.... I do live in a free country.... I can choose to feel hate toward the xtians and love for my fellow human as well....

Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Sep 1, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
Tvash, What's going on with the fasting is pretty complex. Here is the article Intermittent Fasting, Hormesis, and Delayed Aging
http://www.theelementsofhealth.com/resources/articles/articles-supplements-and/intermittent_fasting.pdf
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Sep 1, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
jingy, I've got a feeling you hate a lot of people, not just xstians


what about...

anyone with "strong traditional (anti-gay) values" based on religion (Muslims, Hindus)

or....old, drunken Republican caucasians wearing loud golf pants

or, anyone who abhors your particular version of enlightened living?


you truly love ALL your fellow men, but you hate all xstians?





BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 2, 2014 - 12:59am PT

You just have to navigate my meaningless hate until I die...

Urs is not meaningless! Your extremely negative opinion against what these 'christians' attitude is toward their homosexual son comes from your life-long experienced truths that don't jive with theirs. So when is taking a stand meaningless? Don't you think the parents in that video could have been reacting from their own life-long experienced truths? Regardless of where you'alls opinion comes from, standing-up for something is a big meaningful part of life,IMO.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:42am PT
That caloric restriction article REALLY jumps the shark quite a bit. Caloric restriction hasn't been adequately tested in humans, and has been tested in only a few other species, with mixed results.

There are some serious negative results if the human self-experimenter gets it wrong - including getting dumber, triggering eating disorders, and depression.

As for the health benefits of fasting, what meager experimental data we have is even less compelling.

On an anecdotal basis, my geneticist friend fasts once a week for a day to keep his gout in check - and he claims that helps considerably. He wouldn't fast if he didn't suffer from gout, however.

Tracking calories taken in and burned, and nutrients with a cell phone app is very useful for a while to learn the ropes, but once habits are in place (food choices, portion sizes, exercise plan), such an app should no longer be necessary.

My philosophy of eating is - research and develop good food buying (if it's not in the house, you won't eat it) and eating habits. Whole foods, colorful meals, lots of growing things, portion control, minimal processed foods.

And GBOMBS: (greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, seeds (incl. nuts).

Oh, and give up alcohol if you're fat. Duh.

People who struggle with weight gain are often prone to develop weird, unsustainable habits and fad diets, and lets face it, fasting is one of those until we know a lot more about it (scientifically speaking, of course). Many focus on diet alone - and avoid exercise. That's always a mistake.

The less a person focuses on diet and exercise - ie, the more healthy habits become a normal routine, the more likely they'll be able to maintain a healthy weight. I'm really not sure fasting for people not afflicted with something unusual, like gout, is much of a viable option. It smacks of just another silver bullet - and therefore another avoidance strategy to the solution we've long known works - healthy diet and exercise.
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:47am PT

^^^

Edited for a simpler response;


BINGO!!!...
moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:50am PT
fasting is one of those until we know a lot more about it (scientifically speaking, of course

Tvash, we DO know a lot about fasting, scientifically speaking. It's very easy to find peer reviewed articles on the subject.

Andrzej
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:53am PT


http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is_fasting_healthy

WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:06am PT
Atheists are stupid.

God manefestates in the material world to the gross materialists and atheists in the form of "Time".

No one can defeat "Time" and "Time" is proven to be Supreme.

Stupid atheists .....
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