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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Aug 31, 2014 - 06:46pm PT
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if god doesnt exist, his mind is nothing, so Werner can accurately claim he knows the mind of god.
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jstan
climber
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There are some things god could spare us that would be most appreciated.
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timy
Sport climber
Durango
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...God offers us Jesus!
But how do you know this?
There is nothing to substantiate that claim.
/seb'stanCHe,at/ verb provide evidence to support or prove the truth of.
/evedens/ noun the available body of facts ar information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
/fact/ noun a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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no matter the topic, the lack of proof is all the proof some folks need.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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"You cannot reason a person out of something they were not reasoned into."
-Jonathan Swift
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Norton
Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
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no matter the topic, the lack of proof is all the proof some folks need.
Ward is right
Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proofs
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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When god offers us cheeses, I might take him up on it.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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/fact/ noun a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts...
i've experienced, and witnessed how reading the words of the bible and praying in the name of Jesus can add to, and/or bring change to individuals lives.
This can even be seen through an MRI.
That's a Fact Jack!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Whoa...big stretch. MRI's don't show ....oh, never mind.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Blue, There are lot of brain phenomena that can be seen on PET scans of the brain - the effects of drugs, meditation, thinking of gratitude, anger, sex, food, etc. - all trigger PET scan changes. For instance, acupuncture has some very interesting effects on PET scans that don't conform to sensory stimulation to the same region of the body; another is that going through the mental process of paying taxes stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain even when the subject may consciously resent the idea of paying them (may relate to some "hard wiring" around giving (increases survivability of the species?).
The changes you percieve are real to your experience and you may have observed these experiences to relate to behavior that you value. To assume those experiences to be due to direct intervention of Jesus may be your belief and you're welcome to it, but you cannot claim you have proof. That's not how science works. It is very common for people to generally assume that correlation is causation.
For instance, research shows, overall, families that have greater numbers of bathrooms in their homes have a higher percentage of family members with a higher education. Doesn't mean that adding a bathroom to your home will give your kids a greater chance of graduating from college!
Yes, there is a lot of science out there about prayer and it may be a valuable activity. The research does not prove the existence or action of anything except the directly observed phenomenon. That's how science works.
I did a very extensive review of the literature regarding the effects of fasting on physiology and the results of water fasting are quite compelling. I have observed the value of juice fasting on myself and patients for over 30 years of practice, but I have no proof because there isn't a body of published-peer reviewed studies out there. So when patients ask me about water fasting I can tell them there is compelling scientific evidence (still not enough to be proof) and on juice fasting I have extensive observation that indicates it is valuable, including making changes in physical exams and lab findings. But, juice fasting still has no compelling body of evidence or proof.
With all the scientific evidence supporting water fasting, the mechanism is still unknown and the causation of the observed benefits is unknown. So it is with prayer, from a scientific perspective we see evidence of the effect, we can infer a benefit, and we do not know the mechanism or causation from the scientific studies that have been done so far.
That doesn't mean prayer doesn't have value, but don't misrepresent the science to support your arguements.
Faith and belief are feelings and they don't have to have proof; they are what they are. Your faith and your beliefs are based on feelings you have had and the stuff you've made up to make sense of them. Someone else having same feelings will make up some other interpretation about their experience based upon the knowledge, language, and culture they have to interpret it all through. Which one is right? Which one knows the truth with a capital T? Ever hear about the Tower of Babel?
I have mystical beliefs that I hold that are outside of my "science mind" and I don't expect anyone else to believe them. Don't feel the need; not important.
There is the sh#t we make up and the stuff we say and do. Some people are willing to kill others if the other doesn't believe the sh#t they make up. Islamic fundamentalism? The Inquisition and witch trials?
We could focus more on what we say and do and on the observable effects of those toward beneficial outcomes.
Or, as the Dalai Lama says, "If you want to make others happy, practice compassion; if you want to make yourself happy, practice compassion.
Oh, and there was that other guy who was supposed to have said, "By their fruits ye shall know them."
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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I have to ask.... How am I not supposed to spew about xristianity....
When it looks like this?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
So.... I know nobody really expects to be given respect automatic or anything.... especially on this board... But why is it that I get the feeling that people expect something when they mention their religion to me....
how is it that I am supposed to automatically respect those who call themselves devoted to one religion or another....
When I know that they can harbor the same feelings that result in this video... sh#t like this happen every frickin day in America.... America!!!!
Where we say we will fight to the death anyone who will try to take any of that freedom from us....
We say everybody is free....
.... Unless you're gay.
Then we real Americans can turn on you like a band of hyenas and are willing to treat you with all the respect of a good kill.
Mark - you've already done too much.... leave the troll....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That doesn't mean prayer doesn't have value, but don't misrepresent the science to support your arguements.
Nor was my intent toward this insinuation. i was merely pointing the scientist to the facts that are out there. Where that path takes them only God can predict. That is my compassion
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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the beneficial mechanism of water fasting is very like the killing off of old T cells - thus spurring the regeneration of new ones. This should help with many auto immune disorders.
Losing weight from fasting does, too. Fewer inflammatories.
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timy
Sport climber
Durango
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i've experienced, and witnessed how reading the words of the bible and praying in the name of Jesus can add to, and/or bring change to individuals lives.
The same could be experienced or measured in ones mood or brain activity whilst a subject was reading any such self help or hope inspiring text. That doesn't make said text to be non-fiction. Exciting or motivating perhaps, but not necessarily factual.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Christians are sinning when they hate instead of love people, including gay people, and the huge majority of Christians are aware of that
 Xtians have an option to attempt to win me over. Turn this awareness you mentioned into tangible change on the ground across the country.... Oh, I know, that's too much to ask, you are only one.. it can't be done... No biggy.... You just have to navigate my meaningless hate until I die... Then it'll be like when the teacher left the room for a long period of time and you got to run the room!!!
Sadly, since its a free country, anyone can call themselves a Christian, and anyone can choose to feel hate instead of love toward their fellow man
Suffer my wrath.... I do live in a free country.... I can choose to feel hate toward the xtians and love for my fellow human as well....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You just have to navigate my meaningless hate until I die...
Urs is not meaningless! Your extremely negative opinion against what these 'christians' attitude is toward their homosexual son comes from your life-long experienced truths that don't jive with theirs. So when is taking a stand meaningless? Don't you think the parents in that video could have been reacting from their own life-long experienced truths? Regardless of where you'alls opinion comes from, standing-up for something is a big meaningful part of life,IMO.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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That caloric restriction article REALLY jumps the shark quite a bit. Caloric restriction hasn't been adequately tested in humans, and has been tested in only a few other species, with mixed results.
There are some serious negative results if the human self-experimenter gets it wrong - including getting dumber, triggering eating disorders, and depression.
As for the health benefits of fasting, what meager experimental data we have is even less compelling.
On an anecdotal basis, my geneticist friend fasts once a week for a day to keep his gout in check - and he claims that helps considerably. He wouldn't fast if he didn't suffer from gout, however.
Tracking calories taken in and burned, and nutrients with a cell phone app is very useful for a while to learn the ropes, but once habits are in place (food choices, portion sizes, exercise plan), such an app should no longer be necessary.
My philosophy of eating is - research and develop good food buying (if it's not in the house, you won't eat it) and eating habits. Whole foods, colorful meals, lots of growing things, portion control, minimal processed foods.
And GBOMBS: (greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, seeds (incl. nuts).
Oh, and give up alcohol if you're fat. Duh.
People who struggle with weight gain are often prone to develop weird, unsustainable habits and fad diets, and lets face it, fasting is one of those until we know a lot more about it (scientifically speaking, of course). Many focus on diet alone - and avoid exercise. That's always a mistake.
The less a person focuses on diet and exercise - ie, the more healthy habits become a normal routine, the more likely they'll be able to maintain a healthy weight. I'm really not sure fasting for people not afflicted with something unusual, like gout, is much of a viable option. It smacks of just another silver bullet - and therefore another avoidance strategy to the solution we've long known works - healthy diet and exercise.
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WBraun
climber
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Atheists are stupid.
God manefestates in the material world to the gross materialists and atheists in the form of "Time".
No one can defeat "Time" and "Time" is proven to be Supreme.
Stupid atheists .....
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