Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
|
One does not need religion to do good, but it makes a convenient rationale for doing harm.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
|
What gets me about ST are the smug science and math people who know everything about the humanities
Do all smug math & science people know everything about the humanities or only a subset of same? Be precise, please.
;>\
How does being a humanist relate to the humanities?
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
|
The study of the humanities and the Renaissance humanist tradition are (or used to be) inextricably linked. Ancients and Mods and all that bloody rot.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2014 - 01:29am PT
|
Fossil Climber,
The poster known as rSin will love that comment, when I tell him of it.
I am perhaps the only one of our Taco tribe who bothered to befriend the man, despite his problems here. This is from a recent e-letter from him. He was quoting someone else.
"In fact, unbeknownst to religious practitioners, harming society may actually be part of religion’s survival strategy. In the words of sociologist Phil Zuckerman and researcher Gregory Paul, 'Not a single advanced democracy that enjoys benign, progressive socio-economic conditions retains a high level of popular religiosity.' When people feel prosperous and secure the hold of religion weakens.'"
It's understanding this which allows the glimpse through the piety and the well wishes and "good deeds" they sprinkle over the top. I like how Bompane puts it: "When religion is used as a cloak for malice..."
He's bitter about religiosity in general, willing to accept those whose light actually moves them to act in a 'correct' or, if you will, 'godly' manner.
And Mr. Gill, you cracked me up with that first question? Yes, you did!!!!
I need to think on the second but the answer is already out there in the ether. I shall look for it. Thanks.
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2014 - 03:35am PT
|
to walk on this fair stage for but a moment....
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2014 - 06:05am PT
|
Yes in order to excel in science and math one must first, have complete command of the humanities, and with that command of the topics be able to filter, the drivel that most of the standard, pseudo religious but really self-severing depictions, are;
from the few important lessons of human nature that are held with in the subjects of the classics, the humanities.
|
|
Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2014 - 06:27am PT
|
'The Failure of the Species'
The species Homo Sapiens flourished on the land,
Every conquest and discovery foretold a bright new future for these engineering denizens with their brains and able hands,
Who built towers, roads, and bridges and who harnessed raging waters with monumental dams,
And with science, math, and industry built all manner of vessels to navigate the waters and the sky and the land,
They built their sprawling cities and they powered up their world with the power from their furnaces to supply all of their gadgetry at the peak of their demand,
And their mighty warring armies raged their constant bloody battles with the fire and destruction of a million huge explosions killing billions at the touch of a button by the few who sought impatiently to brandish all their power and command,
Or just for oil under the sand,
Where religion and philosophy and affluence and poverty and violence and peacefulness and tyranny and liberty and reason and insanity and hatefulness and tenderness and learnedness and ignorance would not go hand in hand,
And then a comet hit the planet and clouded up the atmosphere with clouds of choking ash and carbon dioxide which blocked out all the sunlight and killed off all the plant life along with all the animals and of course for Homo Sapiens things turned out not so grand,
And for this they had not planned,
The end.
-bushman
11/23/2014
|
|
bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2014 - 07:10am PT
|
"which means IN PART" [emphasis mine]
but, for the sake of argument, let's assume vonnegut's definition is complete with "trying to do the decent thing"...one question: who decides what is "decent"?
humanism evolved from a human-centered perspective (let's try to make earthly life as joyous for everyone as heavenly life) into a human-ruled perspective (we shall determine what is joyous for everyone, which, inevitably, becomes what is joyous for me)
vonnegut considered the firebombing of dresden indecent...he had a point; it's easy to see how the "decent" thing would have been to spare all those people...of course, the US could have done the "decent" thing and avoided the war altogether and spared far more people than those poor souls in dresden...only, that assumes that everybody else wants to do the decent thing, too...again, vonnegut has a point
see, hitler also wanted to do the "decent thing" (insert "he just called vonnegut hitler" spewage here): eliminating from europe (and, eventually, the world) the evuhl jooooooooooooozzz as a first step toward allowing the superior (i.e. "decent") aryan race to rule the planet
the crux of humanism is that it allows humans to define good and evil, which has given us moral relativism: placing the firebombing of dresden and the third reich on the same shelf; such insight might make you feel, ironically, morally superior but it also ignores the real problem: evil exists and must be confronted and destroyed (read the lord of the rings)
this is why humanists can demand that anyone from south of the border should be allowed to freely enter the US while ignoring the millions of people in africa who are in much more dire situations...or demand the elimination of ddt despite the millions of african babies who would die of malaria as a result...or lament that women, supposedly, are paid only 70% of what men are paid "for doing the same work" while remaining silent as girls around the world have their clitorises cut off...
all of these things are "decent" but, more importantly, EASY (and entirely self satisfying)
doing the RIGHT thing, however, is HARD (as arjuna realizes)...in fact, the bible (and history) is replete with humans getting it wrong more often than not
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
 When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive-- to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love
Live out your life in truth and justice, tolerant of those who are neither true nor just.
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
Ambition means tying your well-being to what other people say or do. Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen to you. Sanity means tying it to your own actions.
A man when he has done a good act, does not call out for others to come and see, but he goes on to another act, as a vine goes on to produce again the grapes in season.
If you’re honest and straightforward and mean well, it should show in your eyes. It should be unmistakable.
Kindness is unconquerable, so long as it is without flattery or hypocrisy.
Be tolerant with others and strict with yourself.
As far as you can, get into the habit of asking yourself in relation to any action taken by another: "What is his point of reference here?" But begin with yourself: examine yourself first.
Never esteem anything as of advantage to you that will make you break your word or lose your self-respect.
It never ceases to amaze me: we all love ourselves more than other people, but care more about their opinion than our own.
When you are offended at any man’s fault, immediately turn to yourself and reflect in what manner you yourself have erred
If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now.
You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can't control. These things are not asking to be judged by you. Leave them alone.
Humans have come into being for the sake of each other, so either teach them, or learn to bear them.
If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I seek the truth, by which no one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.
Do not be ashamed of help.
Tranquility is nothing else than the good ordering of the mind.
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.
The time is at hand when you will have forgotten everything; and the time is at hand when all will have forgotten you. Always reflect that soon you will be no one, and nowhere.
Receive without conceit, release without struggle.
Marcus Aurelius
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Still a great thread.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
Marcus Aurelius is awesome!! Harris did a great job.
Meditations is a book I re-read about 4 times a year. Helps me keep on track.
Thanks for the share, Marlow!
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
Sullly: Even my gang members enjoyed it, given the four dead bodies at the close.
Funny, relevant, and also a little sad.
bookworm: +1
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
|
"I've rediscovered this ancient thread you guys aren't gonna believe" bump.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Greenblatt's "The Swerve" [978-0-393-34340-3] is an elegant treatment* of the importance to modernity of an ancient Roman poem "On the Nature of Things" by Lucretius.
I can't tell you how devastating this book has been to my core "comfort" beliefs assimilated during my years in Catholic school, being raised by a "sainted" mother and a dad who sang in the choir, and all that.
Not that I didn't KNOW of the "wisdom" imparted by the so-called "rebirth" of classical thought, but I wanted both worlds and that is not possible.
It makes little difference to me now, having thought on it, that when life ceases for me I shall be just another ex-being experiencing the long, black sleep of otherness.
--Blaze Pascal, a betting man
* Pulitzer Prize in 2012
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2017 - 10:41pm PT
|
I am therefore I am, at least partly
-popeye
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2017 - 06:32am PT
|
I think of myself as a humanist because I think it’s less alienating to people who think of feminism as being a load of strident bitches.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!