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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 25, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
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that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of reward or punishment after I am dead."
Kurt Vonnegut
Not everyone needs a credo that strains credulity.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 25, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
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I don't beleive you!
Cosmic sent us this picture of your little church...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2014 - 06:43pm PT
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It wasn't a mega church but I was still in it for the money.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 25, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
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"I am a humanist, which means ..."
the guy who posts here as cragman thinks you're going straight to hell
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 25, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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"But if you have to try ,you clearly are not being decent"[google]
Great Cosmanip.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 25, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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Intellectually crossing mental fingers. Best wishes.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 25, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
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So, can one be both a cannibal and a humanist?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jul 25, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 25, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
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Bravecowboy, really?! It's such a shallow and trite retort to Jim's position.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 25, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
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Despite its protests, Religion is entirely humanistic. That is the reason for the thousands of sects and constant changing of rules. People won't be told what to do by the church. That's why the christers don't kill adulturers or excommunicate divorcees among all the other humanistic, relativistic modifications to god's rules.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 25, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
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Charles, by being Swiss.
Enjoy your self and your dreams.
You own your government and your country.
Your people run the government and country and you will always find work when you want it.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jul 25, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
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Pretty good deal on exorcisms.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 25, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
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Don't forget Swiss steel.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 25, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
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Which means soon you'll be drinking your own urine and standing on your head for hrs. on end..
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jul 25, 2014 - 09:46pm PT
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Vonnegut is interesting and funny:
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
Kurt Vonnegut
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 25, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
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Well now (another deep subject.)
It appears there are humanists,
Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over established doctrine or faith (fideism). The meaning of the term humanism has fluctuated, according to the successive intellectual movements which have identified with it.[1] Generally, however, humanism refers to a perspective that affirms some notion of a "human nature" (sometimes contrasted with antihumanism).
In modern times, humanist movements are typically aligned with secularism and with non-theistic religions.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
and non-humanists,
and horse-turds.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Jul 25, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
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I am a humanist
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 25, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
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I'm not as dumb as I wish I was.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:07am PT
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That I have tried to behave decently without expectations of reward or punishment after I am dead. and I'd like to add: ...or before I die. People expecting frequent praise/rewards from other people, often turn into monsters when they do not get what they expect.
I'd also like to add Harold Pinter's summary of the strange power and ugly beauty of Beckett's work:
"He's not f*#king us about, he's not leading us up any garden path, he's not slipping us a wink, he's not flogging us a remedy or a path or a revelation or a basinful of breadcrumbs, he's not selling us anything we don't want to buy — he doesn't give a bollock whether I buy or not — he hasn't got his hand over his heart. Well, I'll buy his goods, hook, line and sinker, because he leaves no stone unturned and no maggot lonely."
In my view this is not in opposition to humanisme. It's the willingness to see things for what they are...
... which could lead me to comment on a couple of thread posts from confused minds, but I'll be kind...
Cosmic: +1 ^^^^
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 26, 2014 - 08:06am PT
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Marcus Aurelius' Stoic tome Meditations, written in Greek while on campaign between 170 and 180, is still revered as a literary monument to a philosophy of service and duty, describing how to find and preserve equanimity in the midst of conflict by following nature as a source of guidance and inspiration. ~from Wikipedia
"The universal order and the personal order are nothing but different expressions and manifestations of a common underlying principle."
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts: therefore, guard accordingly, and take care that you entertain no notions unsuitable to virtue and reasonable nature."
"We ought to do good to others as simply as a horse runs, or a bee makes honey, or a vine bears grapes season after season without thinking of the grapes it has borne."
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jul 26, 2014 - 10:38am PT
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Mark F: fué una chiste, chongo.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Jul 26, 2014 - 11:32am PT
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I have been a Humanist for many years. I find that it is the best way for me to think about humanity and its needs and responsibilities. Below are a couple of simple Definitions. If you are interested in learning about it be sure to look it up on Humanist sites, as the religion sites tend to add their own ideas and misconceptions, as they seek to promote their own agendas.
"The Philosophy of Humanism" by Corliss Lamont is the definitive work on the subject. An excellent read by anyone of any belief.
Definitions Of Humanism
Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity. • American Humanist Association
Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice. Free of supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that values-be they religious, ethical, social, or political-have their source in human experience and culture. Humanism thus derives the goals of life from human need and interest rather than from theological or ideological abstractions, and asserts that humanity must take responsibility for its own destiny. • The Humanist Magazine
Humanism is a democratic and ethical lifestance which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethics based on human and other natural values in a spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality. • The International Humanist and Ethical Union
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 26, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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The ad in the sidebar when I looked at this thread goes oddly with the thread title...
I am a hunanist, which means, in part,
No sh#t. That ad really appeared beside this thread. "I am a humanist, which means, in part, I cheat for men over 40."
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jul 26, 2014 - 11:59am PT
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People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say
Kurt Vonnegut
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 26, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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Narcissist consumer culture is pretty self-centered no matter what label you want to attach to it.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 26, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
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Bravecowboy, I'm kinda slow; took me a while to get the joke; if it is. You start with it's just a joke and then finish with the chongo insult. Really?! It undermines you and indicates a lack of self-control. Vanitas perdit sapientiam.
Ron, there is the samurai principle of "the life giving sword" where killing is done out of compassion and to preserve more life. It doesn't count if it just serves your ego, though.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
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I fully expect Marcus Aurelius had some serious issues with which to deal as he was going around dealing out mayhem for no result he might consider lasting. Humans seem to desire permanence and meaning of which there is little to none. Evil and good are words designed for use in the search for this illusory permanence. We now know god, another such illusory construct, does indeed play with dice. And we see another reason for the unwillingness to listen to Darwin. It is hard to look at even the behavior of a single human and decide we do not also take all routes. Scientists value knowledge at least in part because it is thought to be permanent? But the library of Alexandria was destroyed, was it not?
Perhaps impermanence is a blessing, not a curse. Whatever it is we do, it will not last long. Both the good and the evil. Evil being those things we wish not to have happen to us. What any of us calls evil, of course, is determined by our minds, a device we have little to no understanding of.
Whether we admit it or not we all follow the golden rule, in hopes it will reduce a little the frequency with which evil is done to us. But fear not. It will all go away.
But now back to the mind debate. Something with hopes of giving us permanence.
See and weep as you understand what bolting has actually done to us.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
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Why would El Dio, omnisciente y un creacionista de corazón, bother with dice, golf, paper-stone-scissors, or horse racing?
Egyptians worshipped a dog god, FWIW.
Erasmus worshipped the printed word, or the thought embodied therein, more like it.
Some folks seem to like being turd worshippers.
Life be fecal.
See my slogan.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
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Jstan, That's heavy stuff! Yes, impermanence. Yet, our actions, or speech, can be catalysts. The light that reaches our eyes at night from distant stars was most likely created billions of years ago by stars that likely no longer exist, yet that wave-particle stimulate our brains and our minds to an awareness of that star. There are the conscious and compassionate words from strangers from forty years ago that still animate my consciousness. That's powerful and we can all do that.
One of my ever so wise daughters told me when she was seventeen that her philosophy to that point was to be passionate about everything and attached to nothing. If we could all be so wise.
Here's some more from Marcus Aurelius....
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
"Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart."
"He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe."
"If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it."
"Do every act of your life as if it were your last."
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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jstan
Here's the Roman empire, 180 AD
And here's how he was seen by historian Cassius Dio at his own time:
At the end of his history of Marcus' reign, Cassius Dio wrote an encomium to the emperor, and described the transition to Commodus (Marcus' son), to Dio's own times, with sorrow.
...[Marcus] did not meet with the good fortune that he deserved, for he was not strong in body and was involved in a multitude of troubles throughout practically his entire reign. But for my part, I admire him all the more for this very reason, that amid unusual and extraordinary difficulties he both survived himself and preserved the empire. Just one thing prevented him from being completely happy, namely, that after rearing and educating his son in the best possible way he was vastly disappointed in him. This matter must be our next topic; for our history now descends from a kingdom of gold to one of iron and rust, as affairs did for the Romans of that day.
Cassius Dio
And then his reputation:
Marcus Aurelius acquired the reputation of a philosopher king within his lifetime, and the title would remain his after death; both Dio and the biographer call him "the philosopher". Christians—Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Melito—gave him the title, too. The last named went so far as to call Marcus "more philanthropic and philosophic" than Antoninus Pius and Hadrian, and set him against the persecuting emperors Domitian and Nero to make the contrast bolder. "Alone of the emperors," wrote the historian Herodian, "he gave proof of his learning not by mere words or knowledge of philosophical doctrines but by his blameless character and temperate way of life."
Blameless character and temperate way of life is not always seen on The Mind thread...
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jstan
climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
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M, A. was clearly aware of the issues and gave them some importance. That's what made him different. He gave them some importance.
Just one thing prevented him from being completely happy, namely, that after rearing and educating his son in the best possible way he was vastly disappointed in him.
Had M. A. the technology to clone himself he might have been better pleased. Not even then. The advantage of leaving office upon death is made clear. But it is an advantage only to the office holder.
Enough of this guys! You are keeping me from the mind debate.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 26, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
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His judgement when he gave the empire to his son was not good. He knew...
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Jul 26, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
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Not everyone needs a credo that strains credulity
Nobody asked you're opinion.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 26, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
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Nobody asked you're opinion.
He reared his son in the best possible way, only to fined he couldn't spel for squat.
That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' tuit, my big round tuit.
I'd like to be climbing, but I just can't do it, I just can't do it.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 26, 2014 - 03:01pm PT
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Further on down the road baby, you will accompany me.
Fools in life, mmmm woman than a happy fool I'd rather be.
--Taj Mahal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxQ6djAK8Xw
The idea of climbing games has proved a strong one, but not strong enough to block out the larger context or consequences of climbing. I wish I could just assert that, in addition to being a fascinating complex of games, alpinism is also a form of humanism. Today, unfortunately, it's not that clear.
--Lito
A Tejada-Flores essay.
http://www.alpenglow.org/themes/alpinism-as-humanism/
The idea of almost any religion involving a creator has proven to be inescapable for most people and times, but not so much as to avoid the pitfalls of dogma and ostracism. I wish for more understanding of Everyman, Everything, and a good used copy of In Praise of Folly.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Jul 26, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
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OK. I'll bring the tone down with a favorite pun of my father's (and yeah it's not even on point since Donini didn't have the decency to title his thread: "I am a humanitarian, which means, in part:")
"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 26, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
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TWP, Nice one! And, Mouse, thanks for the thoughtful work from Lito.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 26, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
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I think some here would not hes. to say he's full of shite, regardless. :0)
Speaking of which, why ain't the don commented or is he too busy painting his navel orange?
Omphullaskepticism, JIM. You are a real man, and a real troll. Is you divine or maleficent?
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MH2
climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
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A few other pieces of the puzzle, from the lair of a humanist.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 26, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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Humanism places its faith in humankind, so that
for the continuing worsening human misery . . . it has
no satisfactory explanation, only excuses, lies,
evasions, and utopian promises.
In the spirit of the journal to which I subscribed, MANAS, a weekly effort by a man named Henry Geiger, there is no name ascribed to the above quote.
There in L.A., someplace along a ridgetop, servicing his water well, I met Mr. Geiger, had a bit of refreshing herb tea, and conversed during my lunch break on our mutual past. It turned out that the father of my friend, Sara T., had been one of his fellow Conscientious Objectors during the one war it was not at all popular to have been one, the one fought and won by The Greatest Generation.
It was a stimulating day, to say the least, and I later on sent him the cash to subscribe to his journal, making me one of "the 2,500 most interesting people in the world" by default. See the introduction in the following link to the online MANAS.
http://www.manasjournal.org/aman.html
Don't stay up too late reading this. You have to get up to go to church in the morning.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jul 26, 2014 - 06:14pm PT
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Fritz, that is called a stud pile. All the poop there is from wild stallions marking out their turf and having to try to erase the earlier droppings of their competitors. Very common. The lives of wild horses aren't easy ones.
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BBA
climber
OF
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Jul 26, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
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I think Tom Paine trumps bible thumpers.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jul 26, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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Not everyone needs a credo that strains credulity.
 donini for president... or at least could be a replacement for a daytime television talk show host
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jul 26, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
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Dear Mark,
Sorry for your butthurt. Chongo could be perceived (as you do) as pejorative, but then again so might hermanito, pendejo, or bennybong. It was meant as a gently chiding term of endearment. Sorry sir for ruffling your feathers by posting a joke and then teasing you for not getting it. All teasing, sarcasm, tomfoolery and wordplay will be avoided sith you in the future.
Your sincere compatriot,
Mineownself
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jul 26, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
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Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! :)
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 26, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Bravecowboy, I will now have a good laugh with everyone over my getting ruffled and hand you some homemade limoncello to enjoy; please pass it around the campfire.
Scrubbingbubbles, no doctrine or philosophy owns the corner on good or evil! They're only as good or bad as the humans practicing them.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:32am PT
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Marcus A's son is just the tip of the upper class classical iceberg.
St. Augustine is a bad boy turned saint, fer sure.
I've just now come across this in the new book I've checked out from the library. (Thank you, Sharonne!) She is my own sweet librarian, some of you may recall the poem I penned to her some time back.
Anyway, the book's about early cinematic efforts to bring art to the masses.
George is a young man who is trying out a career as an actor in the Paris of the first decade of the twentieth century.
"The term used for the likes of George and his ilk in Nickie's circle was bourgeois. But this term, much like a curse word, had different meanings depending on the place and time. In this time and place bourgeois was something to strive for. It wasn't as much about having money as it was showing that you had money. And showing that you had money was quite expensive. George had fallen into this social trap. And it was a trap. No one with a modest salary could ever keep up the appearances that were necessary for long. The latest thing for the new bourgeois was to have a sitting room, and while George had just enough money to finish his fancy new parlor, afterward, there would be nothing left.
His father had spent every penny he had sending George to the finest schools, clothing him in the best threads, not so much for his son's sake but in order to show that he was in the same class as his peers.
So it was a great disappointment that George decided to become an actor."
I could not help but notice the passage and decided it would interest y'all.
Black and white cinema history.Colorful lady.
This is the artist's palette for the masses.
Some people LIVE their art.
Some people LIVE their religion.
Some people APPRECIATE both.
Some people WORSHIP both.
They all LIKE TO ATTEND the cinema.
"Why shouldn't the lower class have art? Maybe that's just what this country needs. An art that will humble the upper class and bring them to their knees. Let's get everyone on the same level for a change. The lower class is just the upper class without a sitting room. I'm going to get everyone into the same room, I promise you."
--the Artist Who Wanted to Be Called Lear (say it as Lay R)
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Jul 27, 2014 - 03:34am PT
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As a humanist myself... I believe in human flaws and failures. What makes people great is how gracefully they handle their weaknesses and what they achieve beyond that.
It's why I am very forgiving of other and "myself." Plus... Why I am happy. I can really enjoy the good side of folks and... Not get hung up on the stupid stuff that always is passing through. Might as well help it along and stick to the good stuff.
I treat people well because I simply enjoy it more than arguing, fighting, dominating a scene because even when you win a fight... What do you really win? So far the mess it creates is not worth the effort. I rather just go be happy and useful somewhere else.
Anastasia
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jul 27, 2014 - 06:02am PT
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Another gem from Cat's Cradle:
We do, doodley do, doodley do, doodely do,
What we must, muddily must, muddily must, muddily must;
Muddily do, muddily do, muddily do, muddily do,
Until we bust, bodily bust, bodily bust, bodily bust
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 27, 2014 - 07:31am PT
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Dude, you need to google poker face.
So? Apparently she was born this way.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 27, 2014 - 07:36am PT
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Here's another form of self-objectification that really gets my goat:
"I'm an American." Usually conjugated with "proud" and at least one exclamation point.
Congratulations. That's quite an honor. I gather you are now entitled to live the good life. If I may ask, could you describe your endeavor to achieve that lofty rank?
Dear citizen of the United Universe, go to a corner and scratch yourself in contemplation.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 27, 2014 - 07:42am PT
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Why do people need to objectify themselves?
Like when someone says "I'm a climber." "I'm a vegetarian." "I'm a Christian."
I've never been able to understand that.
Says the self-proclaimed "climber" QITNL... ^^^^
QITNL
climber
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 27, 2014 - 07:43am PT
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Here's another form of self-objectification that really gets my goat:
"I'm an American." Usually conjugated with "proud" and at least one exclamation point.
Congratulations. That's quite an honor. I gather you are now entitled to live the good life. If I may ask, could you describe your endeavor to achieve that lofty rank?
"Uh, I was born here."
Often followed with f'em if they weren't.
We have a couple of posters here on ST who fit that description perfectly.
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 07:44am PT
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Don't label me, maaaaan.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 08:31am PT
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Equally silly:
What am I NOT?
Reverse labeling.
"I'm not PC, so I must be a redneck."
Like that: I'm no longer a TENNESSEEAN, I'm a CALIVALLEY BOY (or GIRL)?
Either you are are or your'e not not.
Either one is is or ain't ain't.
And then, not satisfied, we dreamed up doppelgangers.
Take a break from thinking about your selves.
Like, ALL THE TIME, and sh!t.
wood norwegian still be norwegian if he were really Norwegian or Jerry Garcian?
"I am NOT calling Dingus a redneck."
The truth can't hurt you cuz nobody knows the REAL truth from the good old timey lies, like Jesus be God, Gautama be holy, the cow be sacred.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 27, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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From Anastasia
just go be happy and useful
What a succinct, rational, and practical philosophy!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 27, 2014 - 10:33am PT
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Mark you left part out,
I rather just go be happy and useful somewhere else.
"Somewhere Else"
That's one way to deal with a battle scene. Another way would be to assault the "Negative" with a "Negative" by butting heads, and duking it out. Another would be to conjoin the "Negative" with a "Positive" by embracing heads, and standing in eachothers shoes to walk a mile. Then depart with a smile.
But by leaving a scene you are causing neither "Attraction" or "Repulsion" whereby warrants a title of No-Thing
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jul 27, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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Damn good limoncello Mark!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 27, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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BLUEBLOCR, I agree with you. It is best to stay with a distressed situation and be a catalyst, whenever possible, for creating peace, clarity, compassion, and harmony, IMHO.
Bravecowboy, I'm so glad you liked the limoncello! It was fun to share!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
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which means in part...
...you've escaped Abrahamic supernaturalism (good)
... you're so 20th century (meh).
A new organizing principle is on the way. One optimized for the 21st century. Stay tuned.
.....
BLUEBLOCR, I agree with you.
lol.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
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The public's trust in "blind faith" - the foundation of Christianity - is sinking faster than a lead balloon.
Poor Blu, go-b, and Illusiondweller, the last of the holdouts. (But you have to admire their stick-to-it-ness.)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
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As hfcs "sadly" smirks and walks away.
I'm overwhelmed by such compassion.
Corn syrup my butt.
Hen house residue, more like it.
You don't "get" it. STHU
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
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King Troll in control?
So right, Craggy, so right you are.
But we are only human, eh?
And yet, we are taught by certain religions that we men are in the image of the creator.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
BLUE CONDITION
Don't take the wrong direction passing through,
Instead of deep reflection of what's true,
For it's a combination of judgments made by you
That cause a deep dejection all the way through.
No relaxation, no conversation, no variation
In a very dark blue, blue condition.
Early rising every day.
You must be enterprising in your way,
For you will hear no laughter, nor see the sun.
Life would be one disaster all the way through.
No relaxation, no conversation, no variation
In a very dark blue, blue condition.
Don't take the wrong direction passing through
Instead of deep reflection of what's true,
For it's a combination of judgments made by you
That cause a deep dejection all the way through.
No relaxation, no conversation, no variation
In a very dark blue, blue condition.
No relaxation, no conversation, no variation
In a very dark blue, blue condition.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:00pm PT
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As hfcs "sadly" smirks and walks away.
I'm overwhelmed by such compassion.
Corn syrup my butt.
Hen house residue, more like it.
You don't "get" it. STHU
No, I'm still here. State your case. What's your quibble? Go for it.
.....
So right, Craggy, so right you are.
Oh, I see. Now I get it.
Been watching the news lately. Tune into the Middle East. Somebody famous one said, "Religion poisons everything."
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
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One way to solve problems is to bury your head in the sand and let other people deal with them.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
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I've been stating. Blow it out, please.
You're candle, I mean. It's flickering.
I don't seek confrontation, just want you to know I don't approve and don't have to quibble.
What a child.
No 'preciation thread for you, but you don't seem to care how others view you as long as YOU ARE RIGHT and the other guy's wrong.
I'll waste no more of the time which is left to me on vaguely intellectual argument with your sort.
End.
Peace.
Out.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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End.
Peace.
Out.
Problem too deep.
Problem too hard.
Head hurts.
Bury head in sand.
Peace.
Out.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Don't be such a pessimist now!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't going to be any population crunching global catastrophes along the way. You have to think more long term here.
Also, I'm saying if cultures or nations are fated to fight as means to sorting things out, they should at least do it based on facts and not 2000 year old superstitions.
I can't wait for the * New Organizing Principle*
Unf, my friend, we'll both be dead, our bones long turned to chalk.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
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H, you can read. I said,
basically, I haven't the time to spend. I'm not a moron, I'm not afraid of your canards, your banter, your wit, or your taunts.
I'm not sayin' there's a hell, but you should check it OUT!
Thanks, Brother "Rong." :0)
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jul 27, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
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A lion never loses sleep over the opinions of sheep[
Cragman "men are sinners and I am amongst the greatest of these"
You see yourself as a lion among sheep? You see yourself as amongst the greatest of men/sinners?
Humanists see these as delusions of grandeur, but don't need others to burn in hell in order to maintain them.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Jul 27, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
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I'm not sayin' there's a hell, but you should check it OUT!
Yeah, baby! The mouse that roared. Many lulz here boyeez. But the mouse is killing me. GUFFAW!
Thanks for the troll, Jim!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
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Humans create Hell. There would be no hell without them.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 27, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
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Everyone has the right to believe what they want.....and not be ridiculed for it. To do that, is to be grossly immature and intolerant.
That doesn't make any sense.
Clearly, everyone does believe what they want to believe, but that's just a fact of brain chemistry, not a right that has been granted. And where is it stated in law that if I believe something really ridiculous, I have the right not to be ridiculed?
Perhaps we should not ridicule the beliefs of others just because we believe something different different, but that is not the same thing as saying we do not have the right to ridicule the beliefs of others. Nor is it the same as saying we should not ridicule the beliefs of others.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 27, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
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Why is there something and not nothing?
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jstan
climber
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Jul 27, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
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Because if you wait long enough nothing will always have become something.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 28, 2014 - 12:48am PT
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Because if you wait long enough nothing will always have become something.
But why? lol.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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Why? Because you are assuming there is intention somewhere. An intention like that you think you have. You know very little about what you have. Pick one of the conscious threads here.
Humans are hugely anthropocentric. We feel we are the only important animal and everything is modeled on us. Someone who looks just like us is ruling everything that happens on trillions of planets. Some of them moving away from us so fast light can't even reach them.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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QITNL
I do like your no logo logo-point. It's a great logo and you're arguing well... you, the self-employed ^^^
By the way: the zen guys could argue that there's nothing, and not something...
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:38am PT
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You assume that I assume. You know very little of what I assume. I assume little. The concoius threads here assume more than I care to assume.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:41am PT
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Jul 28, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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BLUEBLOCR,
Yes I agree with you to a point if you can "effect" the situation in a positive way. I found myself in many circumstance that the other person has made up their mind, are beyond working out solutions. Instead they are in a hate/anger fest and... I'm just over it. If they want to live there fine... I will not join them. I rather just take myself out of the situation and be useful somewhere else. I would love to be in a good place with all the people around me yet... I also know that's not an agenda that everyone shares/needs/ lives by. Instead it's about ego and I will not be part of that.
As for fighting it out, only if both parties can fight fairly. I fight with my spouse and it's never bad because... We fight with a great respect towards each other. It usually ends up with a few giggles and a good solution.
:) AFS
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 28, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
I've got to cool myself down stompin' around
Thinkin' some words I can't name ya
Meet ya halfway got nothin' to say
Still I don't s'pose I can blame ya
Seems to me you don't wanna talk about it
Seems to me you just turn your pretty head
Walk Away
Or, just turn your pretty head and float on up into the sky, assuming that you CAN.
WINNEVEGAS, FOR THE LUCK OF IT!
paid advertisement
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
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Interesting article in this weeks Time magazine about Atheist "churches" springing up in the Bible Belt.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 28, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Trickle Down Humanism?
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jul 28, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
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Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Lord, You are our Father,
We are the clay, and You our potter;
And all of us are the work of Your hand.
I'm a human made by God! :)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
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Go-B, with all respect, that is your take...I believe that "God" has been made by humans.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 28, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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I'm a Donnist, which means I'm a bad ass from Philly.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 28, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
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You atheist are going to burn at the philly cheese stake...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 28, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
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Not if you are from Pittsburgh.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 28, 2014 - 07:21pm PT
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Secular Humanist - welcome to the club
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jul 28, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
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I'm a bad ass from Philly.
I thought Philly was where Baltimore toughs went for their days off...
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jstan
climber
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
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Jstan
Jul 28, 2014 - 12:48am PT
Because if you wait long enough nothing will always have become something.
Wayno
But why? lol.
Wayne:
I'll amplify.
If I had said " The Heisenberg uncertainty principle permits violation of energy conservation as long as that violation exists for such a short time that the violation can't be measured." (This is an answer to the question "HOW is it that this is so." That's the way nature is. (If you would like to know more, google "Planck Time.")
I did not say that because you would have immediately come back with, "Why is nature this way?"
Why is the wrong word because lurking in that word is the anthropological bias that some sort of intention is in control. There is no data to suggest intention. It is a bias.
There is no why. There is a how. Some of the Hows we know. Some are theories yet to be affirmed. And others we have not yet a clue.
That is how it is right now. There is no why.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 28, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
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..I believe that "God" has been made by humans.
I believe Yoda and E.T. have been made by very intelligent humans.
I am still hoping for a flying carpet.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 28, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
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No, John, you are right. You quoted the lol but I think you missed it. I was being facetious and I apologize. I never took this thread seriously and I can't always help it if somebody misunderstands. You obviously have a deeper understanding of such things and I have tried, but I do not have the patience to digest the acumen that abounds on those threads that you mentioned.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 28, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
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Wayne:
I was too cursory in my reply to your question and it is I who needs to apologize. I hope my second attempt was at least a little better than the first. But being human, there are no guarantees. I did not look at the lol because it was immediately apparent I had botched it.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 28, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
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You are a good man, John Stannard. You understand the difficulties we face when trying to have a civil discourse and injecting some humor when we take ourselves too seriously. I'm not sure what this has to do with being a "humanist" though. Those labels.;)
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 28, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
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What could be my intention if I questioned the good intention behind jstans answer? ^^^^
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jstan
climber
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Jul 28, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
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Lincoln had something to say about this during the Lincoln Douglass debates.
Douglass harped upon the idea that Lincoln intended to end the practice of slavery. Lincoln's reply was that if the Honorable Stephen Douglass tells you what it is that I intend,
he is telling you something that he cannot know.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 29, 2014 - 03:58am PT
|
Gotcha covered, Wayno. Yer good to go as well, JStan.
The Pinnacle of Justice in California?
Chessman was not just a good writer, as Davis suggests. He was something even more remarkable: a good thinker whose clarity of mind and ability to bring his thoughts directly to the page—given the circumstances, the harassment, sheer numbing stupidity, stench and chaos of San Quentin—evokes the great humanist philosophers. And the story of how he came to write The Face of Justice recalls something Solzhenitsyn would have endured at the gulag. As one reads his account of it, one can’t help but wonder, “This happened in America?”
--from a post by Jim Newman at Skeptic Money which comments on another essay about Chessman by yet another writer--it's very confusing
http://www.skepticmoney.com/victor-stenger-does-a-great-job-on-free-will-caryl-chessman-lives/
QINTL, another Weston.Turned out the guy was from Pittsburgh! Not so tough, after all.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 29, 2014 - 06:28am PT
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Mouse ,If you are from Pittsburgh,you ARE going to die.
Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over established doctrine or faith (fideism).
First sentence from Wiki.
Which I am,in part.Recovering from a strict Catholic upbringing.
If it matters.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 29, 2014 - 06:57am PT
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Which I am,in part.Recovering from a strict Catholic upbringing.
It seems the current Pope is also.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Jul 29, 2014 - 07:19am PT
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Beware of ists and isms.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 29, 2014 - 07:29am PT
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Beware of idealists. They get other people killed but rarely dirty their own hands.
DMT
Back on the bolting thing?
Don't be so sensitive.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 29, 2014 - 08:00am PT
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"I am a humanist, which means, in part,..."
That you ARE human, just like the rest of us.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 29, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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Beware of ists and isms.
Well, we're all of us one of those whether we like to admit it or knott.
Of course the Irish are famously humanistic. As a wee lad growing up in
Cork I was at Sunday Catechism class. One of the mums was standing in for
one of the nuns. She proceeded thusly:
"If I sold my house and my car, had a big garage sale and gave all my money to the church, would that get me into heaven?"
"NO!" we all cried in unison.
"If I cleaned the church every day, mowed the garden, and kept everything tidy, would that get me into heaven?"
Again, the answer was "NO!"
"If I gave sweets to all the children, and loved my husband, would that get me into heaven?"
Again, we all answered "NO!"
She was clearly bursting with pride for us. She continued,
"Then how can I get into heaven?"
Breandan shouted out: "YOOV GOTTA BE FOOKN' DEAD!"
And sure you thought it would have been me with the rejoinder.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Jul 29, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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Humanism: Man is his own god.
How selfish, amoral, and untrue.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 29, 2014 - 08:46am PT
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Randisi, glad to see that you have a sense of humour. ;-)
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 29, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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Homo Spiritus will come along and there won't be any room for our silliness. We will suffer the fate of Neanderthal.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 17, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
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Thread Renaissance
or Partial Recall Due to Faulty Ignition
Why
is the wrong word because lurking in that word is the anthropological bias that some sort of intention is in control. There is no data to suggest intention. It is a bias.
Six weeks later...
Time to decant the vintage.
Wayno, got a corkscrew?
Let us drink to Leon Battista Alberti, a priest and a humanist, among other things. He is the definition of a renaissance man for many historians.
"As an artist, Alberti distinguished himself from the ordinary craftsman, educated in workshops. He was a humanist, and part of the rapidly expanding entourage of intellectuals and artisans supported by the courts of the princes and lords of the time. Alberti, as a member of noble family and as part of the Roman curia, had special status."--Wikipendium
Being a priestly humanist may sound like an oxymoron. I'll just refer the doubters to Danny DeVito, who cannot jump over another human being, unlike Monsignor Alberti.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Battista_Alberti
This thread is not meant to die and go to Thread Heaven, not yet.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Sep 17, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
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I love the internets... such an advanced technology where I can post pictures of my cats and argue with people I don't know... fabulous.
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Bad Fiducci
climber
Wilson, WY
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Sep 18, 2014 - 06:02am PT
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Do you know what "heck" is? That's where you go if you don't believe in "gosh".
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 22, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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Seems as though the Renaissance Christian humanist tradition is dead or in th long process of dieing because Homer, Virgil, Dante, Milton, Spencer no longer form part of the core curriculum even in private, let alone public institutions of learning. It's all point and click today coupled with the cult of instant gratification. "Why should I have to read that old crap? It won't get me high or laid or help me make a quick buck!"
O Tempora, O Mores!
Cicero
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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One does not need religion to do good, but it makes a convenient rationale for doing harm.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Nov 22, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
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What gets me about ST are the smug science and math people who know everything about the humanities
Do all smug math & science people know everything about the humanities or only a subset of same? Be precise, please.
;>\
How does being a humanist relate to the humanities?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 22, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
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The study of the humanities and the Renaissance humanist tradition are (or used to be) inextricably linked. Ancients and Mods and all that bloody rot.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 23, 2014 - 01:29am PT
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Fossil Climber,
The poster known as rSin will love that comment, when I tell him of it.
I am perhaps the only one of our Taco tribe who bothered to befriend the man, despite his problems here. This is from a recent e-letter from him. He was quoting someone else.
"In fact, unbeknownst to religious practitioners, harming society may actually be part of religion’s survival strategy. In the words of sociologist Phil Zuckerman and researcher Gregory Paul, 'Not a single advanced democracy that enjoys benign, progressive socio-economic conditions retains a high level of popular religiosity.' When people feel prosperous and secure the hold of religion weakens.'"
It's understanding this which allows the glimpse through the piety and the well wishes and "good deeds" they sprinkle over the top. I like how Bompane puts it: "When religion is used as a cloak for malice..."
He's bitter about religiosity in general, willing to accept those whose light actually moves them to act in a 'correct' or, if you will, 'godly' manner.
And Mr. Gill, you cracked me up with that first question? Yes, you did!!!!
I need to think on the second but the answer is already out there in the ether. I shall look for it. Thanks.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 23, 2014 - 03:35am PT
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to walk on this fair stage for but a moment....
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 23, 2014 - 06:05am PT
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Yes in order to excel in science and math one must first, have complete command of the humanities, and with that command of the topics be able to filter, the drivel that most of the standard, pseudo religious but really self-severing depictions, are;
from the few important lessons of human nature that are held with in the subjects of the classics, the humanities.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Nov 23, 2014 - 06:27am PT
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'The Failure of the Species'
The species Homo Sapiens flourished on the land,
Every conquest and discovery foretold a bright new future for these engineering denizens with their brains and able hands,
Who built towers, roads, and bridges and who harnessed raging waters with monumental dams,
And with science, math, and industry built all manner of vessels to navigate the waters and the sky and the land,
They built their sprawling cities and they powered up their world with the power from their furnaces to supply all of their gadgetry at the peak of their demand,
And their mighty warring armies raged their constant bloody battles with the fire and destruction of a million huge explosions killing billions at the touch of a button by the few who sought impatiently to brandish all their power and command,
Or just for oil under the sand,
Where religion and philosophy and affluence and poverty and violence and peacefulness and tyranny and liberty and reason and insanity and hatefulness and tenderness and learnedness and ignorance would not go hand in hand,
And then a comet hit the planet and clouded up the atmosphere with clouds of choking ash and carbon dioxide which blocked out all the sunlight and killed off all the plant life along with all the animals and of course for Homo Sapiens things turned out not so grand,
And for this they had not planned,
The end.
-bushman
11/23/2014
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Nov 23, 2014 - 07:10am PT
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"which means IN PART" [emphasis mine]
but, for the sake of argument, let's assume vonnegut's definition is complete with "trying to do the decent thing"...one question: who decides what is "decent"?
humanism evolved from a human-centered perspective (let's try to make earthly life as joyous for everyone as heavenly life) into a human-ruled perspective (we shall determine what is joyous for everyone, which, inevitably, becomes what is joyous for me)
vonnegut considered the firebombing of dresden indecent...he had a point; it's easy to see how the "decent" thing would have been to spare all those people...of course, the US could have done the "decent" thing and avoided the war altogether and spared far more people than those poor souls in dresden...only, that assumes that everybody else wants to do the decent thing, too...again, vonnegut has a point
see, hitler also wanted to do the "decent thing" (insert "he just called vonnegut hitler" spewage here): eliminating from europe (and, eventually, the world) the evuhl jooooooooooooozzz as a first step toward allowing the superior (i.e. "decent") aryan race to rule the planet
the crux of humanism is that it allows humans to define good and evil, which has given us moral relativism: placing the firebombing of dresden and the third reich on the same shelf; such insight might make you feel, ironically, morally superior but it also ignores the real problem: evil exists and must be confronted and destroyed (read the lord of the rings)
this is why humanists can demand that anyone from south of the border should be allowed to freely enter the US while ignoring the millions of people in africa who are in much more dire situations...or demand the elimination of ddt despite the millions of african babies who would die of malaria as a result...or lament that women, supposedly, are paid only 70% of what men are paid "for doing the same work" while remaining silent as girls around the world have their clitorises cut off...
all of these things are "decent" but, more importantly, EASY (and entirely self satisfying)
doing the RIGHT thing, however, is HARD (as arjuna realizes)...in fact, the bible (and history) is replete with humans getting it wrong more often than not
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive-- to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love
Live out your life in truth and justice, tolerant of those who are neither true nor just.
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
Ambition means tying your well-being to what other people say or do. Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen to you. Sanity means tying it to your own actions.
A man when he has done a good act, does not call out for others to come and see, but he goes on to another act, as a vine goes on to produce again the grapes in season.
If you’re honest and straightforward and mean well, it should show in your eyes. It should be unmistakable.
Kindness is unconquerable, so long as it is without flattery or hypocrisy.
Be tolerant with others and strict with yourself.
As far as you can, get into the habit of asking yourself in relation to any action taken by another: "What is his point of reference here?" But begin with yourself: examine yourself first.
Never esteem anything as of advantage to you that will make you break your word or lose your self-respect.
It never ceases to amaze me: we all love ourselves more than other people, but care more about their opinion than our own.
When you are offended at any man’s fault, immediately turn to yourself and reflect in what manner you yourself have erred
If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now.
You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can't control. These things are not asking to be judged by you. Leave them alone.
Humans have come into being for the sake of each other, so either teach them, or learn to bear them.
If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I seek the truth, by which no one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.
Do not be ashamed of help.
Tranquility is nothing else than the good ordering of the mind.
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.
The time is at hand when you will have forgotten everything; and the time is at hand when all will have forgotten you. Always reflect that soon you will be no one, and nowhere.
Receive without conceit, release without struggle.
Marcus Aurelius
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Still a great thread.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Marcus Aurelius is awesome!! Harris did a great job.
Meditations is a book I re-read about 4 times a year. Helps me keep on track.
Thanks for the share, Marlow!
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Sullly: Even my gang members enjoyed it, given the four dead bodies at the close.
Funny, relevant, and also a little sad.
bookworm: +1
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 26, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
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"I've rediscovered this ancient thread you guys aren't gonna believe" bump.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Greenblatt's "The Swerve" [978-0-393-34340-3] is an elegant treatment* of the importance to modernity of an ancient Roman poem "On the Nature of Things" by Lucretius.
I can't tell you how devastating this book has been to my core "comfort" beliefs assimilated during my years in Catholic school, being raised by a "sainted" mother and a dad who sang in the choir, and all that.
Not that I didn't KNOW of the "wisdom" imparted by the so-called "rebirth" of classical thought, but I wanted both worlds and that is not possible.
It makes little difference to me now, having thought on it, that when life ceases for me I shall be just another ex-being experiencing the long, black sleep of otherness.
--Blaze Pascal, a betting man
* Pulitzer Prize in 2012
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 26, 2017 - 10:41pm PT
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I am therefore I am, at least partly
-popeye
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 27, 2017 - 06:32am PT
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I think of myself as a humanist because I think it’s less alienating to people who think of feminism as being a load of strident bitches.
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