Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
Mark posted And I feel the only people deserving of the right to judge whether capital punishment is ethical or not, are the victims and families of victim of the perpetrator.
That's actually the entire purpose of having a judicial system: to make sure that the victim or the victim's family ISN'T the only one judging if a punishment is ethical or not. It's a rather vital part of having a democracy and a not insignificant part of why democracies in so many places have not panned out. Without it you just have familial feuds and tribal wars.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
Worrying about a slightly botched execution is a sign of how fawked up we are as a society. These guys were sentenced to die for horrendous crimes murdering people, and if it takes them a little longer to be executed then instantly, oh well. Lets put our concerns with the victims and not the criminals, that makes a little more sense, dont you think?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Two US men who spent three decades in prison for rape and murder, one of them on death row, have been released after DNA evidence proved their innocence.
Mentally disabled half brothers Henry McCollum, 50, and Leon Brown, 46, were convicted in 1984 of raping and killing an 11-year-old girl in North Carolina.
Recently analysed DNA evidence from the crime scene implicated another man, who is in prison for a similar crime.
A county judge ordered the immediate release of the brothers.
Tuesday's court judgement followed an investigation by the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, which tested DNA evidence found at the scene.
The commission found that none could be traced to Mr McCollum or Mr Brown. bbc news:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29039964
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
Ooops! another couple of innocent men jailed for most of their life. Not a proud accomplishment for American justice. At least we do have a system that eventually acknowledges mistakes and tries to correct them.
Scalia would have executed them. According to Scalia (Supreme Court Justice) it is okay to execute innocent people, as long as they got their day in court. To him the advent of new technology (DNA) should not change a guilty verdict after judgment has become final (appeals exhausted). He defends that position to this day. Strict constructionists really have a hard time justifying their logic. Our forefathers would be disgusted by Scalia.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Black
mentally disabled
young men
younger girl
After five hours of questioning with no lawyer present...... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/2-convicted-in-1983-north-carolina-murder-freed-after-dna-tests.html
automatically guilty
and it gets worse
As recently as 2010, the North Carolina Republican Party put Mr. McCollum’s booking photograph on campaign fliers accusing a Democrat of being soft on crime, according to The News & Observer.
In 1994, when the United States Supreme Court turned down a request for review of the case, Justice Antonin Scalia described Mr. McCollum’s crime as so heinous that it would be hard to argue against lethal injection.
Justice Harry A. Blackmun, who was an open opponent of the death penalty and had voted to hear the case, noted that Mr. McCollum had the mental age of a 9-year-old and that “this factor alone persuades me that the death penalty in this case is unconstitutional.”
(In later years, the Supreme Court barred the death penalty for minors and the execution of the mentally disabled.) D'oh! What took the Supreme Retards so long?
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
I'm going to make another comment, more as a "bump" than any other reason...
This is still a topic which bothers me a lot. Part of my conscience cries out for just retribution for unspeakable crimes, but there's always that little tickle of doubt...is this really the perpetrator of the crime being executed?
Our current Judicial System is very flawed by the presence of overzealous prosecutors and strange judicial rulings. There are lots of men and women currently "doing time" for convictions facilitated by poor defense lawyer performance, aggressive prosecutors, and politically compliant judges. Circumstantial evidence was disallowed at an earlier point in time, and it should continue to be. No direct and incontrovertible eye witness to the crime? No death sentence possible. Period.
We have the world's largest prison population. Why? Is the question I must ask.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
Help me with this.
Only 3 reasons for the DP (are there more?).
1) Revenge
2) Keep the person from ever doing it again.
2.1) As a deterrent to others.
As far as #1 goes, is that the kind of society we'd all be comfortable living in? An eye for an eye mentality? If so where would one draw the line? Who makes the call of the importance/weight of the crime vs the revenge? Who you going to believe? Where does the revenge end? Why couldn't I kill you as revenge for killing my brother that killed your brother?
#2...If intentional killing is murder, the DP is state sanctioned murder. Are we okay with this? You okay with sanctioning murder? You vote, you are part of the state.
I'd suggest a cold lonely cell for the rest of the persons' life. Cruel and unusual or does it better fit the crime?
#3...If it is a deterrent show me the statistics of those that chose not to murder as a result of this deterrent. While you're at it show me the statistic of those that expected to get the DP just prior to or during the act of murder but they went ahead anyway.
If one were actually innocent then the chance of a DNA clearing would still allow the innocent to get out of that cell, death does not.
Finally the cost of killing a convicted killer is less than a cold cell for life.
"After reviewing data from state reports, Amnesty International concluded that “the greatest costs associated with the death penalty occur prior to and during trial, not in post-conviction proceedings. Even if all post-conviction proceedings (appeals) were abolished, the death penalty would still be more expensive than alternative sentences.
The numbers associated with jail time are just as large. In terms of dollars spent behind bars, the California Commission found that “the additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.” Since that statement, California’s death row has grown to 721, the largest in the country.
The story is the same in North Carolina. A 2010 Duke University study found that taxpayers in the Tarheel State could save $11 million a year by substituting life in prison for the death penalty.
The numbers are even more dramatic in Garden State. Prior to the abolishing the death penalty in the state, a report by New Jersey Policy Perspectives found that “New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one.”
-http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2011/09/22/death-and-taxes-the-real-cost-of-the-death-penalty/
"In an age of austerity, every million dollars counts. Proponents of the abolition bills describe the death penalty as an expensive programme with few benefits. There is little evidence that the death penalty deters. In fact, some of the states that most avidly execute prisoners, such as Texas and Oklahoma, have higher crime rates than states that offer only life in prison without parole. There is also the danger that innocent people may be put to death. So far, more than 130 people who had been sentenced to death have been exonerated."
-http://www.economist.com/node/13279051
more
http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/15519792/what-costs-more-the-death-penalty-or-life-in-prison
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
^^^^^
The above comment is really an indictment of the entire Judicial/Legal/Criminal Justice system, which has fallen prey to the plethora of hungry lawyers. It really shouldn't take that sort of time and money to do correctly, but we now have privately run prisons-for-profit. This complicates the issue by lobbying the politicos to impose stiffer and longer sentences on "criminals." Result: costs way too much money in every aspect of the system. Maybe raising the bar for conviction in areas involving non-violent crime? Limiting appeals in capital cases? I don't have ANY answers...only questions.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
Locker I said help me with this not confuse me more.
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
It is interesting that people who loathe government so, are the first ones willing to hand it full authority over life and death. You have to laugh at the logic-tight compartments required for such a position.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!