Making a new hammer

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 42 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jul 22, 2014 - 08:58am PT
One of the best threads going on the taco stand.

Banqmer?
Bammer?
The metal head of power?


I fricking love the modded toaster. Something very meth-cooky about it, but in a hammer loving way. LOL :)
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Jul 22, 2014 - 09:52am PT
Climbing related engineering coolness!

We need more of this on the Taco and less of the polluting bollox that causes so much hurt.

I wish I could do such stuff, but putting a picture up is my engineering limit!

Steve
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jul 22, 2014 - 10:23am PT
fun thread
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2014 - 11:53am PT
I have finished up the second hammer. Since heavier didn't work, I went lighter. Although the torch and toaster oven were fun, the torch didn't heat evenly or accurately while the oven wasn't going to last.

I bought a benchtop kiln on Craigslist and hooked it up to the temperature controller. This is becoming a very expensive hammer.

Kiln, PID temperature controller check at 400 C.
Kiln, PID temperature controller check at 400 C.
Credit: Banquo

McDevitt, Banquo Hammer, DAMMERR, Yosemite hammer copy
McDevitt, Banquo Hammer, DAMMERR, Yosemite hammer copy
Credit: Banquo

2nd hammer "DAMMERR" 24.1 Oz
1st hammer 28.1 Oz
McDevitt 26.2 Oz
Chouinard 25.2 Oz

The second hammer went 2.3 inches in 5 minutes, the fastest hammer so far. Even faster than the McDevitt.

Credit: Banquo

Edit: I think this hammer was faster because it wasn't as tiring to swing.



Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jul 22, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
Nice work, Dan.

I'm climbing with cragnshag this coming weekend, so I could drop off my
old (1975) Yosemite hammer at your house (Thursday night or Friday night) if you want to test it.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
Clint-

Thanks but Mucci just dropped off a bunch of hammers including an old Chouinard, a D5 and Bridwell's monster hammer. I've got all the hammers I can work with for now.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
Made another hammer today. Target is a gross weight of 23 ounces.

DAMMERR 03 ready for quenching.
DAMMERR 03 ready for quenching.
Credit: Banquo
WBraun

climber
Jul 26, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
This has become the "Pinnacle of Hammerdom" ....

:-)
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2014 - 07:32pm PT
cool thread.

Please post a pic of all hammers when you get a chance.

Is the length of the handle part of what is allowing more power for faster drilling?
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
Werner, There's something satisfying about hammers; they are the fundamental and original tool. "Within every tool there is a hammer."

John M, I think most of the hammers are in the photo below which is from the other thread linked below.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2435668

Top: GI knockoff, Chouinard 80's, Stubai 70's, Bridwell's monster hamm...
Top: GI knockoff, Chouinard 80's, Stubai 70's, Bridwell's monster hammer, D5, CMI, Chouinard 70's, Forrest forged, Homemade Engineer's. Bottom: Stubai 50's, Forrest Nut Hammer, Salewa, Grivel, McDevitt, DAMMERR, Forrest Mjollnir
Credit: Banquo

goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Jul 27, 2014 - 08:10am PT
Edit: I think this hammer was faster because it wasn't as tiring to swing

There is a study out there done with framing hammers that showed the best performance was a balance between the weight of the hammer head along with the damping characteristics of the handle. Too big a head is tiring and to small and not enough force to drive the nail home.

The final results showed a heavy head can work but the handle needed to have a reverse tuning fork design which reduces harmful vibrations in the handle and allows for stronger swings.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Jul 27, 2014 - 09:50am PT
There is a study out there done with framing hammers that showed the best performance was a balance between the weight of the hammer head along with the damping characteristics of the handle. Too big a head is tiring and to small and not enough force to drive the nail home.

The final results showed a heavy head can work but the handle needed to have a reverse tuning fork design which reduces harmful vibrations in the handle and allows for stronger swings.

I think this principle may also apply to the drill holder. One of the things I didn't like about the Hurricane holder is that there was a lot of kick back when I stuck it with the hammer. There was not much kick back with the Petzl RockPec, maybe because the drill bit floats in the holder.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2014 - 10:54am PT
There is a study out there

Perhaps you refer to the 1954 article in the Journal of Applied Psychology:
"The Effect of Hammer Size on Efficiency in the Task of Nailing"
They tested claw hammers from 7 to 16 ounces and rip hammer of 16 and 20 ounces. They tested various sizes of finish and common nails. They found that heavier hammers drove nails faster except that small nails were bent by heavy hammers slowing things down because the pounder had to pause to straighten the nail. They didn't test endurance.

In the 1980's there were several papers published in Human Factors: The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society. (I'm a member of the HFES). In these they tested curved handles and found them to be beneficial which they may be for drilling hammers as well. They also looked at fatigue and wall hammering as opposed to bench hammering. They did not look at hammer weight variation. They found that wall hammering is more tiring and resulted in a 1/3 reduction in striking force.

I have been tempted to try a bent handle for drilling.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Jul 27, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
Dan,
This is a great thread. Do you think your drilling speed is getting faster simply because you are drilling so many holes? For me, early season my swing is a little rough, the transfer of power from the hammer to the drill tip seems off, my arm and grip feels weak, and I just don't feel "in the groove". By late season everything is good again. In fact, by late season it easy to destroy a bit half way thru the first hole. What I am getting at is that it may not be the hammer or the drill, but the control that decides the outcome. Lately I have tried pushing the bit tight against the bottom of the hole, really tight and using a lighter hammer. Same result as not pushing down and using a heavy hammer. The drill tip can only take so much force. I find that if I hold the drill holder loose, I get a bounce back that is a little scary. In fact last week that bounce back got me. Right on the nose, and that hurt. No blood but my eyes did a bit of watering:-) I guess for me the A-5 hammer, wilderness drill, SDS bit, keeping the bit at bottom of the hole, and a firm grip is the ticket.
The only bolt I ever place are the 5-Piece that Greg supplies me with. Those seem to be perfect for hand drilled holes. The problem I run into is by late season the holes are getting so tight, and the bolt starts going in so hard, I fear that I will damage it. I carry a extra holder with a fresh bit to ream the holes out so I can get 2-3 full turns before torque is reached and that solves that issue. Power drilling produces such a tight, perfect hole, I wonder how they deal with the issue? Maybe another thread is in order because they probably don't have much interest in how fast us folks from the "Dark Ages" place bolts:-)
Oh yea, that extra holder is the one you made and gave me last season.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
Roger,

My data certainly has variables that I am not controlling and I would advise all to take it with a grain of salt. For example, when I use sharpened bits, they are not all exactly the same since I grind them by hand on the grinding wheel. From day to day, my ability to sustain pounding as well as make an efficient swing certainly varies. I try to stand in about the same position but there is of course variation in body position. How solidly my block of granite is supported on the work bench might vary also.

Sometimes the bit shatters during a test so I get a new one and start a new test. I may not rest enough between the two and I know that slows things down.

Some of the tests I did bare handed but I got blisters so some are with taped hands and some with a glove. I don't know if there is a difference but there might be.

I think that all I can conclude from my tests is that a hammer with a gross weight of about 25 ounces is about right for me. For somebody else, bigger or smaller might be better. My real purpose in doing all these tests was to figure out what weight hammer to make and I think I've figured that out.

I have wrecked a lot of bits doing these tests and am averaging something like two or three tests per bit. The faster I drill, the more likely I am to shatter a bit. I am drilling as fast as I can and I don't usually do this in the field where bits tend to last longer.

Anyway, to answer your question, I think I am drilling slower as time goes by. I did some tests yesterday and today that seem unreasonably slow.

I am glad you are getting some use out of the drill holder.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 27, 2014 - 08:33pm PT

Paging Steve Grossman, please come to the white paging telephone.


We kneed to see your hammers. . .
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Jul 28, 2014 - 07:42pm PT
Bump for hammer porn.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Jul 28, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
werner

rewire that oven will you

Nanook

climber
Jul 28, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
Awesome, awesome post. Good work Banquo!

Someone's gotta have the Ace hammer that Conrad Anker made, no? That one should be around middle 20s ounces, though had a longer pick tip.



bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Jul 29, 2014 - 09:05pm PT
OK. I am hijacking this thread a bit, but I know Dan (Banquo) has also been working on a device for pulling 3/8" bolts. Check out the photos at the bottom of the page in this link for such a device:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/poetry-in-motion/105958606

Personally, I have a 3/8" tuning fork that Greg Barnes at ASCA gave me. It seems to work well for split shafts at the Pinnacles, but I have not put it to use on granite.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.
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