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Messages 181 - 200 of total 344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 07:42pm PT
Hm, Bruce, what was the last time you've been bombed over? What was you reaction after the first shock? Was it 'derilection of duty of care to know exactly what you are shooting out of the sky' of some sort?
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Well, of cause nothing, but you are judging the people who fight the brutal war, who's families are getting killed, wives raped. Of cause they had no right to declare their land their own and so are just criminals and have to be treated as such. They are Russians after all, or at least that is what they believe they are. That is a crime by itself, right?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 20, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Well, Bruce, you have to admit it is unlikely the trigger men will be brought to bay and we're
not gonna get much satisfaction out of their puppet master although it will be interesting to
watch Angela feint and jab. So that leaves the pursuit of the only semi-rational culpable
parties, the airlines and ATC entities, as the remaining worthwhile pastime, especially for the
legal eagles.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
Don't worry about the trigger man. He must be in his private hell right now. Not that many people can survive things like that. If he does - he will be judged by others, no doubt.

Blaming him is the easiest solution. If he has killed himself already - problem solved? No and no.

But if all what are you saying is that flying over the war zone is perfectly fine and everyone who shuts down an aircraft without it's country's government permission is a mere criminal - well, I guess you are right, but you are on your own here. Ron's position comes from somewhat different angle, which my guess you are completely oblivious of.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
This particular weapon system was provided by the Ukrainian military forces who did not evacuate, not to mention protect, the air defense base in Avdiivka (check the map).

That implies - they have meant to make separatists to shut down some passenger jet that Ukrainian authorities will conveniently direct to fly over the known launcher location? I see you logic here.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
Well, what you did not like about your logic? Follow the money you said - and I did. Was it anything new to you in it?

The fantasy stories are booming, that is true. Lots of people with sick imagination and free internet. The one with all dead people is not the wildest I've seen.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 10:08pm PT
Well, we seeing the different evidence then. Russia has no gain in that play, Ukraine sure does have quite a bit. There is a conflict that they are obviously cannot handle, and they were calling for Big Brother to come and help for some time now.

Also a sh!tload of local Ukrainian politics there as well, and those people have a long track record of completely screwed up moral values. Water is as muddy as it gets, fishing time.

With that much politics involved I doubt we will ever know the whole truth. There are two simple rules here, though. Never believe what Ukraine said, and never believe what Russia said. Unless they said something they completely did not mean to say.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
United States Assessment of the Downing of Flight MH17 and its Aftermath
http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/statements/asmt-07192014.html

Based on some serious YouTube evidence.. What is it? Another political appointment?

"At the time that flight MH17 dropped out of contact, we detected a surface-to-air missile (SAM) launch from a separatist-controlled area in southeastern Ukraine. We believe this missile was an SA-11."

And the launch position was - ?? Is there a serious reason not to make this information public??
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
He got an alibi for himself, a smarta$$. He was on the plane, flying back from Brasil.

Bu seriously - why they are hiding the facts? 'Trust us people we know we are doing the right thing' does not work, not after Snowden.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 20, 2014 - 11:48pm PT
This particular weapon system was provided by the Ukrainian military forces who did not evacuate, not to mention protect, the air defense base in Avdiivka (check the map).

Just so we are clear, if I throw your ass down on the ground and take your possessions, you would describe that as "providing them" to me.

Interesting way for Russians to think.

And then using your possessions to bludgeon someone else to death.....YOU are the criminal.

At least we understand.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 21, 2014 - 12:01am PT
Always turn your other chick, Ken, always do. None will accuse you of anything and you will always be guilty of nothing. Just make sure you got no family or friends - they may not understand that this is the right way.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 21, 2014 - 07:52am PT
Always turn your other chick, Ken, always do. None will accuse you of anything and you will always be guilty of nothing. Just make sure you got no family or friends - they may not understand that this is the right way.

Do you have a comprehension problem? Is that the problem with Russians?

Turn the chick? Russians? When you are not slaughtering your own political opposition by the millions, let me just remind you:
Afghanistan.
Chechnya.

When are the just Russians going to hold a poll in Chechnya to see if the people want to remain part of Russia, like they advocated so strongly in Crimea?
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Jul 21, 2014 - 08:50am PT
Hmmm...did the US poll the citizens of Hawaii before they annexed it?
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 21, 2014 - 09:28am PT
Interesting development.

Russian Defense Ministry released it's information on the MH17. They reported detecting 2 Ukrainian SU-25 planes in close proximity to Boeing, something Ukraine denied all along. One was as close as 3km at some point. They are saying the second one was flying low and it took them a while to figure it out. This matches the tweets of Spanish dude working in Kiev Air Control, the one that I've posted early and the account went dead shortly after.
SU-25 is a bomber, but it's standard equipment includes 2 air-to-air R-60 missiles, short range - 7-10 km, 3-3.5 kg warhead, IR guidance.

On top of that, they presented the satellite imagery of the positions of Ukrainian Buk launchers, 3 batteries total in the area, one launcher was deployed 8km south of the crash site, just for that day only. Something that Ukrainians were denying all along as well.

They also reported a spike of radar activity of Ukrainian Buk systems that day.

And they have requested US data on detected Buk launch position.

That Ukrainian Buk launcher info may explain why the launch position was not released yet by US authorities. Russians might know where exactly the separatist's launcher was, but US may not.

The most interesting part so far is that all that info (released some-3-4 hours ago) is completely ignored by the Western media - at least by CNN and BBC, I have not checked others. All you see there is 'rebels tempting with evidence, they are hiding something' theme started yesterday.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jul 21, 2014 - 10:12am PT
Will not be surprised to see this news headline sometime soon
"Aeroflot 777 disappears over Atlantic! Dutch naval ship in area
says they saw nothing!"
dirtbag

climber
Jul 21, 2014 - 10:22am PT
Thanks again for the laughs Tioga.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 21, 2014 - 10:34am PT
Big F-ing Game.. I hate politicians.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 21, 2014 - 10:57am PT
Russian Defense Ministry released it's information on the MH17

BwaHaHaHaHa! It's a gud thing I know for a fact that the Easter Bunny rools!
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 21, 2014 - 11:24am PT
Oh, Reillly - are you working for one of those big media outlets? That is your employer official position then?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 21, 2014 - 11:29am PT
Ты еше спрашиваешь?
Messages 181 - 200 of total 344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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