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ryankelly
Trad climber
el portal
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Its hard to take you seriously on an ethics post where you use other people's photos without credit or permission.
This whole thing smells like a troll.
When you climb bolted routes from the ground up you are committing to the climb as it is: run-out, dangerous, safe, whatever. If you want a sure thing you can probably spend your entire life climbing lines of natural splitters that have a minimum of hardware. Then you will save yourself the handwork, time, and money that altering routes requires.
Additionally, because you are generalizing about all climbing areas your thoughts are at best vague abstractions that have little to do with individual and diverse climbing areas. Each place comes with its own individual ethics. Sense of place and history is key to the practice of rock climbing and one of the things that gives it meaning. Climbers connect directly with the Earth Body through touch and movement and community.
Also, the climbing world already has one sarcastic, parody loving writer named James and your bland imitation of his style is kind of like that way you posted that StoneMaster photo that doesn't belong to you.
In any case , thanks for the five minutes of entertainment away from my schoolwork.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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At my local crag, some of the first ascenders are forming a property rights LLC / 501c4 Someone has got to defend our inherent right to continued use of this range without interference. It is based on lessons learned from NV militia success, and the bank bailout. Each time a route is altered, the gov will pay us to restore its cultural integrity status.
Although it will be nominally non-profit, numerous financial benefits will accrue to investors.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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wesleysummers, what is your take on free-soloing at the gym?
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thewesleysummers
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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I don't allow it in my gym.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Ed. Lol
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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no plastic free-soloing? doesn't sound real ballsy.
i was on a bolted trail leading to a bolted climb. was it excessive? no. clipping was a pain in the ass though because i can walk 120 ft. pretty quick and the rope got dirty. made the day really long.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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I bet Wesley's last name isn't even summers.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Lame Troll.....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Those doing FAs are gods and have absolute rights to their creations, just as God has absolute right to His.
Such gods should defend their FAs with all means necessary, including rocket launchers, grenades, or whatever. Such spirited defense is the ONLY way to keep FAs pristine!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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what the FA establishes is a style that worked to create the route.
ed,
climbers did not "create" anything.
Nature created the route, and some climbers just happened to climb it first. unless of course you chipped holds and left your "mark".
seems like your emotions got involved and took over your intellect.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Toprope FAs are imaginary.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the route exists without climbers?
an interesting concept.
perhaps there is a discussion of "ownership" that would be interesting...
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/property/
e.g.
Though the Earth…be common to all Men, yet every Man has a Property in his own Person. This no Body has any Right to but himself. The Labour of his Body, and the Work of his Hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the State that Nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his Labour with, and joyned to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his Property. It being by him removed from the common state Nature placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it, that excludes the common right of other Men. (Locke 1988 [1689], II, para. 27)
Locke's response to the OP question would be: Yes, they own the route.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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No rights, that's why some dude is selling other dudes' old bolts here on ST. I think retro bolting things is a good idea. It drives lunatics on this site nuts.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Rights to wear tights? NO!
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overwatch
climber
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Great first day of posting, Ronnie. Way to splash onto the scene
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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I think retro bolting things is a good idea.
Anything harder than A1 is contrived and total bullsh#t. Retro-bolt all of it. Who gives a damn that some FAer will whine about it.
Is this the make up a lie about how you really feel about ethics and style thread?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Moose, They might be legit if you wrote "Moose was here" with a sharpie or spray paint.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Do first ascentionists have any rights?
They have the right to be proud (or depressed) about the way they did them, keeping in mind the prevailing social environment of the time.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Does it count?
That marks the territory.
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