Historic/Badass Yosemite Bigwall Bolt Hangers/bolts for Sale

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ECF

Big Wall climber
So Far East I might as well be dead
Jul 7, 2014 - 06:22am PT
The want of money has compromised the integrity of many men.
The replacement of belay, and FA protection bolts is something most rational people can agree on, when presented with all the facts.
The replacement of subsequent ascent bolts, is open for debate on a case by case basis. It is unfair to have a blanket policy here, because perhaps the FA was done by a psychopath (Beyer comes to mind...). Treading on ground first does not transfer ownership of the land to he who treads.
Methods used are judged by all, but only truly understood by those who have actually done it. Field expediency trumps morality imposed by others when lives are on the line, especially when the imposed morality was never voted on by the community. Stealth and discretion are advised in those circumstances.
Although done for altruistic reasons, the subsequent commercialization taints the perception of intent. No one thinks it was done with the goal of selling the debris for profit, but PR is about perception, not factual data.

On a personal note, I consider you a friend. Friends don't have to agree on everything, but it is their place to speak up when someone may be crossing a line that will damage themselves or the community at large. If you are desperate for money, you could put these on eBay, but to advertise them here is not something I would advise.
Also, putting a dollar value on something like this opens a Pandora's box of vandalism. I point to the petroglyphs hacked from the cliffs for profit.
While on one hand, removal and utilization of the same hole has it's proponents, one must also be aware that it destroys the historic value of the item. While hanging from bright shiny 3/8ths bolts, looking at FA spinner star-dryvin's is a far more profound experience, than seeing them mounted in a display case while standing on flat ground.

So how much are we talking here? 'Cuz if these are worth hundreds, I'm quitting my job and taping a clip-in loop to my crowbar. There's gold in them thar hills...

rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Jul 7, 2014 - 11:12am PT
I could not agree with klaus more. Give it all to Ken. This should not be for your benefit or profit.
Nanook

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
I love it Jake - you admit that you lost a bunch of historic bolts that you replaced on Yosemite's cliffs, or that you failed to do with them what you're suggesting I do with mine. What's worse - your apathetic attitude toward something that someone considers historically significant, or my detailed storage and willingness to admit that there is more than enough here for several museums?

No worries. Your comments don't upset me at all. There will always be two sides to every debate, so yes I am aware that there are people who have different opinions about replacing old bolts, or what should be done with the old ones afterward. I've replaced bolts continuously for the last 17 years in Yosemite. So yes, I've thought long and hard about all the different approaches to fixed hardware.

I"m appealing to those on my side of the fence here, haha, and simply pointing out that you others that believe you have better ideas should put your actions where your mouths are - because there are plenty, plenty more historic old hangers and bolts on Yosemite bigwalls to go around.

Just to give some perspective - Dean Potter replaced two, possibly original, bolts on the Nose before he and Stanley set the speed record in 2011. So that should give you an idea that most Yosemite bigwall routes still contain many, many old historic bolts.

I watch my 3yr old on Sun-Tues, so have limited internet, so if you emailed me about these bolts I'll be getting back to you soon.

Best,
Erik Sloan
erik@yosemitebigwall.com
Nanook

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
Thanks for your interest everyone. I've updated the thread:

http://mountainproject.com/v/historicbadass-yosemite-bigwall-bolt-hangers-for-salechouinard-robbinsfrost-dolt/109181676__2#a_109204025
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Jul 8, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
Don't worry, some d#@&%ebag will buy this stuff. Buying it is probably worse than trying to sell it.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 8, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
Apparently you don't admit to seeing the irony in trying to sell something for its historic significance to a bunch of people who probably think such things should be in a museum. Its like ransoming hostages."

Ouch. That struck. Whats the solution then?

Well its negotiate the release of those brown hostages, now isn't it?

DMT
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jul 8, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
Erik,

Presently I have over 1200 hangers in my museum. Actually more like 1800 new and historic hangers, but 1200 are different than each other. For the Karabin Climbing Museum I am only seeking a few certain hangers 3 of which are Dolt or homemade. You can send the thousands of hangers to Ken, but what is Ken going to do with thousands of rusty mostly Leeper and SMC hangers? Nice display, 2000+ hangers which all look alike. And now Ken is expected to create displays with them, and insure them yearly as well? With what time and what money?

Erik you should be proud of the work you did replacing the hangers. I know that ripping old hangers out is a dedicated ton of work. A lot of these posts I see are attacking your identity. People want you to give give give and receive nothing for your personal efforts. In the past me and Chris with the ASCA came up with a solution of hangers for hangers. I sent him boxes of hangers and he sent me boxes of used hangers back. I was the museum guy doing museum stuff, and he was the rebolter guy doing rebolting stuff. I even offered him money for the shipping costs.

I feel that you are doing the hard work that most climbers avoid, and people should respect you for your passion. The least people can do is send you boxes of bolts and hangers to keep your drive alive. Not condemn you for what you end up doing with those past rusty time bombs. No matter what, in the future all of these museums will end up under the same roof. Keep up the good work!

Marty
Harding &#40;Nose king Swing&#41;, Robbins &#40;Tis-sa-ck&#41;, Salath...
Harding (Nose king Swing), Robbins (Tis-sa-ck), Salathe (Summit Lost Arrow Spire)
Credit: karabin museum
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Jul 10, 2014 - 08:57am PT
Marty,
Good post. I have over 2500 Yosemite bolts/hangers in my collection, each one in it's own baggie with date, route, pitch, and which bolt it was on the pitch. This information is also on a shipping tag attached to the hanger. This is done usually on the same day the bolt is replaced. A daily log book is also kept. A little more work than your basic stamp or baseball card collection, but I think the historic nature requires it.
That said, this collection is my collection and I can and will do with it as I please. My choice, period.
If I get myself killed out there, my choice is to let Ken go thru it all and take anything he wants to display. For example, I really don't think he will want every bolt/hanger from the SFHD, but he may want the original anchor from the top of the 13th pitch.
After that my wife can do whatever she wants to with the rest. E-Bay? Sure whatever she wants, the collection will be her's.
During Face-lift last season at the bolt/ hanger display some people said I should sell the collection and give the money to the ASCA. I said I already gave, they should sell some of the coolest stuff they own and give that money to the ASCA.
I think selling this stuff for personal gain is lame, and I strongly disagree with Eric's methods of bolt replacement.
But..... that is his stuff and he can do what he wants with it.
Roger Brown
ASCA Bolt Replacer
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 10, 2014 - 10:00am PT
Don't worry, some d#@&%ebag will buy this stuff. Buying it is probably worse than trying to sell it.

Do you even have any idea how expensive it is to put a collection together? On my part, which I rarely have received any donations..it requires me to cash in my vacation time, sell my toys, sell other collectible items (non climbing) and cut back on all kinds of expenditures just to acquire this kind of stuff...all so it can be "given" to the public in the future.

Then of course, there's the preservation side to it all; cleaning, scrubbing rust, oiling, tagging, cataloging, storing it and insuring it. I just spent 12 months of my (limited) spare time doing this to over 1,400 items. 12 months..I could have been climbing.

I don't feel like a d#@&%ebag, I feel $broke most of the time and disappointed when someone that hasn't considered all that goes into collecting drops critical bombs on these efforts.

Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 10, 2014 - 10:02am PT
^Good posts Marty and Roger.
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Jul 10, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
Erik, I will offer $1 for each good used leeper that I will reuse in the desert for another 25 years.

I will offer "going rate for plated new fixe hangers" for new old stock leepers for the same deal. I am going to use these on routes no one will repeat for at least a decade and then only once a decade.

A hanger, is a hanger in my world.

The rest of the bent, rusted, broken, stretched, small hole common hangers need to be melted to make new steel- they have zero value except as scrap.

Of course, I see no value in collecting stuff- I use all gear I own- they are tools. I cannot believe someone would sell or offer to buy old crap and I am more stunned day by day with ebay auctions and what useless pins, first gen camalots, and foxheads sell for.

Old stuff needs to go to Marty, Ken, or Stéphane where people can gawk at the jingus stuff we used.

I must admit, I bought a single auction of hundreds of pins on ebay, and sold sets of angles and arrows and a set of 2-6 crack n ups and some old ass kbs (1960's) to recoup my cost for the lot. I pounded, fixed, and gave away a hundred of those to friends to boost their racks.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 10, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
Whoa, popcorn thread!
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