Ground-Up.....The Thread

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OjaiLooch

Trad climber
Ojai, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 21, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
Let's talk ground up.

Having read all the other threads relating to ground up climbing, it seemed ST was needing a thread just dedicated to ground-up climbing in general. So....

What does "ground up" climbing mean to you?
What makes it different? What is the appeal?
Tactics? Techniques?
By hand only? How about some power?
What is your stance (pun totally intended) on mixing aid with free climbing (hooks, stepping on bolts, etc.) during a ground-up ascent?
Is kale actually that good for you?
Anything you'd like to add?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=283058

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1014957

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=149476

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=585414
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
Easy for me...it means starting at the bottom and going to the top. The other stuff, for me, is irrelevant...I never have any bolts with me.
That said, I'll be clipping someone else's bolts tomorrow. The climbs will have been intelligently rap bolted and loads of fun.
If you're putting in a sport route you are already conceding the use of natural and removable pro...you might as well rap in and do it right.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
By hand only? How about some power?

Yes, the only legitimate way to climb is using the upper torso only, hands on the rock and ignore the feet and legs. And yes, it takes some power.


Oh wait . . . that's not what you meant!


;>)
moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
Ground pepper up?

Moosegrunt
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
Testify, 1981
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/photo_view.php?dpid=Mjk0PTk4Jycj
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
GU is an art practiced by masters, handed on to a few that are worthy. Not to revealed to the masses.

Just kidding, it is really stupid and dangerous. Only imbeciles would be caught doing it. Don't bother putting up FAs in areas where the local ethics promote it. It sucks. Stay home or go to the gym instead.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 21, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
Got to love the ground up trundel:)
one of several big trundels
one of several big trundels
Credit: tradmanclimbs
Silly of me to forget that i had a tag line hanging off my butt when i did that trundel. Could have been ugly.....
OjaiLooch

Trad climber
Ojai, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2014 - 08:10pm PT
Thanks Ed, I already read each of those threads and appreciated your contributions.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jun 21, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
Ground-Up..
.. like hamburger if you fall.
ablegabel

Trad climber
Dublin,Ca.
Jun 22, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
Tradmanclimbs,
your project looks good, best of luck getting the red point. It sure traverses a bit. I saw on the other thread that you had bolted the crack out there at the lip. Was wondering if the pro was bad or if the crack was too wide or flairing? Just curios.
Anyways, way to go doing it ground up. Good luck.

-Eric Gabel
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Jun 22, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
Thanks Walleye

Hope you don't mind me plastering that in this thread

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 22, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
Its not a crack. it is a loose detached flake that flexes when you hang on it. that is why we call it the Cleaver. I had a hex in to get my epoxy bolts drilled but felt that a hex out near the lip was asking for real bad troubble if anyone took a real fall on it. the most crucial reason I bolted it is to keep the rope to the left of the flake in case the flake breaks hopefully the rope will not get chopped and the climber will live.

It traverses so much because I took the path of least resistance (ground up) to get to the roof. I picked the most obvious natural line. I had to add a belay under the roof because the rope drag was unbearable after you turned the roof. As soon as we are finished with it My 5.13 sport climber friends will probobpy rap bolt a direct(hard) start to it and climb it in one long pitch.

One of the results of ground up FA's are routes that are not nessicarly direct...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 22, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
The Cleaver
The Cleaver
Credit: tradmanclimbs
Isa on the flexing flake..... it's pretty sharp in there and keeping the rope away from the flake is critical INMOP
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
Jun 22, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
OOOps.... I thought this thread was about me.

I think we would all agree , doin a route from the ground up
gets more respect than a rap bolted job. Even at Smith Rock
Alan Watts mentions routes originally done with some placed
pro that were later bolted, those routes would be seldom done
if left in their original state. I have never rap bolted or
used power to drill a hole. I have stood on dimes and hand
drilled holes. It is damn hard.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Jun 22, 2014 - 10:17pm PT
^^^^
And scary!!!!
Nate D

climber
San Francisco
Jun 23, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
Here's one observation that I don't think has been mentioned over the years on any of the GU threads.

Runouts are considered bold by many, but for the FAist, if the stances are thin, I believe it's actually more bold/hard/riskier to stop frequently to drill more bolts for a "safer" route. The chances of a fall are significantly greater due to the added drilling time, whether by hand or heavy power drill.

So kudos to those who create relatively well protected thin face/slab routes done GU! That's bold too.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 23, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
Everyone should have to do an apprectiship with the hand drill before being allowed to buy a Bosch :)
OjaiLooch

Trad climber
Ojai, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2014 - 11:55am PT
Everyone should have to do an apprectiship with the hand drill before being allowed to buy a Bosch :)

Just graduated from my hand drill apprenticeship. Did some ground up bolting yesterday.
Gearing up for the onsight FA.
Gearing up for the onsight FA.
Credit: OjaiLooch
This route ended up taking two bolts, the left leaning seam above is the crux and is probably about 5.10-.
New routing in Ojai, CA.   <br/>
June, 2014
New routing in Ojai, CA.
June, 2014
Credit: OjaiLooch
ablegabel

Trad climber
Dublin,Ca.
Jul 1, 2014 - 08:07am PT
Tradmanclimbs,
Congratulation on finally sending your route. Thanks for explaining the bolts out by that flake. I figured there was a good reason. After looking at your picture on "what did you climb today", I can see how thin that flake actually is, and the potential for a rope hang up. It looked more like a block on your earlier photos. Good job on what looks to be a fun route. It doesn't look easy turning the lip of that flake. How hard is your route?
I totally agree that everybody should have to do time with a hand drill before graduating to using a Bosch. I still prefer the hand drill my self, unless it's a desperate slab. I basically just avoid desperate slabs. Glad to hear ground up is still alive and well!

-Eric Gabel
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