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Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jun 9, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
Well, at least you can't fault some of the guys here for not taking a stupid tack on the issue.

For what it's worth, the women who post here regularly seem to be of an overall higher quality than people, say, like me.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jun 9, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
Thanks to Matisse, Lollie, Michelle, Daphne, Seamstress, Sullly.

+1.

add ekat, lynne, nita and tami as frequent posters. lady s as an occasional.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 9, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
Thanks to matisse, Lollie, Michelle, Daphne, Seamstress, Sullly.
and SCSeagoat, Crimpie etc.
I've always appreciated your posts, climbing and not.

I grew up in a male dominated society, in the Dark Ages of Salt Lake City where in many Mormon families, the men had all the power. I'm familiar with men objectifying women, including myself when in my adolescence and young adulthood. Slowly, largely with my Father's excellent example (I can't remember him EVER referring to a part of a woman's anatomy) and moving to the Bay Area, I outgrew it.
My Father did appreciate attractive women, much as my Mother would comment on attractive men. That had little or nothing to do with their preferences for opposite sex friends.
Men's objectification of women has nothing to do with "men are sexually different" and everything to do with enculturation and power.

Why until very recently have there been no women priests/bishops/etc in christian religions? Why are there still none in the Roman Catholic church?
Why can't Mormon women attain the priesthood?
Why are there still so many male politicians opposed to a woman's reproductive choices?

Men should appreciate women as equal to men in all except one extraordinary and very difficult thing only women can do. Childbirth. I don't see how any man who's participated in it can ever again think less of a women.

one final thought: some women are bitches, some men are arseholes. I've worked with both. They are quite equally obnoxious.
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Jun 9, 2014 - 07:49pm PT


"Men should appreciate women as equal to men in all except one extraordinary and very difficult thing only women can do. Childbirth"...



and in turn we should be seen and appreciated as equals for all but one special thing we can do as men...(edited: "extraordinary"... that too!!! ;-)











































...






Lennox

climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
There's a lot of mansplaining on this thread.
matisse

climber
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
Perhaps a bit overly sensitive as well - perhaps like Matisse

sigh. let's review:
This thread started when someone posted essentially wondering why so few women posted on ST. This was follows by the inevitable pictures of hotties, and not so hotties, other assorted supertopo memes etc. A few women offered their opinion as to why they did or did not post.

to which your response was

Males are visual creatures, visually stimulated. That's the way we're wired. No apologies.

Women, too, have their gender-specific wiring. So it works both ways. Adapt.



Is this a climbing site or some old 19th century spinster site?

so you appeal to basic biology (i.e. boys will be boys) no apologies yet women have to adapt?

Then you insinuate that every woman who doesn't agree with your opinion is some sexually deprived or repressed or frustrated old woman. Even if they were, that would still be beside the point. The appeal to basic biology is a copout. since the basic biological success is living long enough and reproducing enough to pass your genes to the next generation, we transcend basic biology on multiple levels and in almost all aspects or our society. except, according to you, this one. Calling you on your bullshit does not make me overly sensitive, it just makes me calling you on your bullsh#t. is that so hard a concept?

Even my cat transcends basic biology when he learns to stay off the kitchen counters.

edited to add..hmm I wonder why the filters let me say sh#t the first time but not the second...
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
Dude, locker. I don't get it man. Folks ask you to stop doing (whatever) and your response is usually confrontational and frequently disrespectful. Why is that? I'm just curious. I know from chatting with you that you're not really a major dick, so what gives?

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
Calling you on your bullshit does not make me overly sensitive, it just makes me calling your on your bullsh#t. is that so hard a concept?

Even my cat transcends basic biology when he learns to stay off the kitchen counters.


Agree!!!




eKat

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
PS You write like a girl. If a girl, no offense. ;)

Well. . . I see the xx xy comment Matisse made upthread went over at least one broken chromosome's head, eh?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
This is an old-man-dominated climbing site.
This is not in dispute.

The question is: should it be this way?

Or should it function more like an in-person discussion,
where people behaving poorly are discouraged from participating?
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
My female compatriots have said everything so well, nothing more can be said. This is the reason why I normally don't post on the argumentative threads. Arguing with a brick wall leaves me with bruises and the wall remains immutable in his opinion because he is personally attached to that opinion. My mind boggles at the reasoning for this attachment.

Someone deleted their posts from the beginning of the thread. I honor that person, whoever he is. I have this story running that he saw that women felt objectified by some content here and responded with kindness.

Thank you to the many men expressing support for me and all the other wonderful women posters here. Scuffy, Jaybro, DMT, apogee, HighTraverse, jammer, kaholatingtong, murcy-- I am feeling better just listing these fine men and I haven't even gotten to everyone who posted compassionately on this thread and who posts in general on supertopo. All gems.

Phylp, your comment regarding kindness is so reflective of your soulful heart. Michelle, the sandwich line was great. Likewise all the other women here-- I count myself in special company.

Matisse, so great, the line about training cats.

Humans have a prefrontal cortex that allow us to transcend the animal survival instincts of the mammalian brain. But the frontal brain (with its executive reasoning) isn't always online. We have to intend it to be. Mindfulness, consciousness, awareness of the personhood of others are qualities that make a being human a beautiful experience.

edit: if I didn't mention your name, it is simply that I didn't go through the whole thread. Happie, you are awesome. JohnEleazarian, you spoke truth early on here when you noted the blatant male chauvinism.

Also, I always think of LuckyPink in st discussions like this. She doesn't come around much anymore because the climate here isn't friendly. She is one of the women I miss most.


Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
Well done! why women don't post here summarized in one post. congratulations high fructose.

+1, Matisse!

Locker, between the fact that I'm not on Supertopo every day and

the nine hour timedifference, I find it amusing it would be fail because I don't answer at your expectancy of when an answer should be delivered.

Ok, these women publicly announce that they're proud that they look as rather normal women. To make that announcement understandable demands an underlying assumption that the normal state is that women are not expected to be proud of their bodies, if they look as most women do. Since these women are proud of themselves, therefore they want to encourage other women too to post photos of themselves in bikinis on the internet? Did I understand you right? My next question is then: Why? To please whom?

Exchange that above to men in the role of the women. Does it in any way seem normal to you, if two men sat in an interview and made the statement that since they have normal men's bodies and they're proud of that fact, therefore they want to encourage more men too to put up photos of themselves in swimsuits on the internet too?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
lassies with some sense of humor?
This is a copout, too.

You are saying: tolerate whatever bad behavior happens,
and pretend it was a joke.
eKat

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:01pm PT
HFCS. . . for the love of Pete. . . you just start yammerin' on this thread without having read it? If you had read it, you would have known Matisse was a lady, providing the xx xy thing was within your frame of reference.

You deserve a tough crowd!
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
Should I leave the site in disgust because Lollie though quite lib on many counts doesn't seem to factor in gender differences when it comes to (voluntary) career choices in science, engineering, etc..

What the f*#k?
Are you out of arguments, since you now start to make up your own fairy tales? You don't have a clue about what I think about career choices.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

if everything were 50/50, that might be true, but here on st the m/f ration is like 50:1.

i've clashed w sully but i really appreciate her posts. this site is i dominated by old, fat, underperforming and over-entitled white guys. sort of like congress, or the fortune 500. or the tech community, if you delete "old, fat" and qualify "white."

this site needs way more women posters and young folks and fols who aren't in that aging wasp demographic. for a start. most of them climb more than the regulars here do.



HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
There is a genetic (i.e., nature) component to it
No credible scientific evidence.
My high school advanced placement calculus and physics classes had a high proportion of girls and they did as well or better than the boys.
And THAT was in Dark Ages Utaaaahhhhrrrr.

Here in Silicon Valley there is certainly not parity in job opportunities for women. It's slowly getting better. Lack of women in the highly skilled workforce is a symptom of unequal opportunity not unequal intellectual capacity or interest. Many girls and young women are discouraged from high tech education and careers precisely by social influences.

I feel somewhat sorry for men who are threatened by accomplished women. It's so MUCH more fun to work and play, climb and love as equals.

Who are the high school girls I remember all these years later? The "cute" ones? The "sexy" ones?
no.....the smart, ambitious, in my face ones I was competing with.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
Yuk
This thread is like a horrible get together
of relatives ,half drunk and out of booze.
Maybe delete,for my sanity.
matisse

climber
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
Hang in there Stewart. It is a worthwhile discussion.
matisse

climber
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
HFCS, just out of idle curiosity: since you are such a biological expert, what do you do for a living?
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