Chouinard Gear Mystery Questions

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karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2014 - 09:58am PT

Scuffy b - Yes, the knots are two separate water knots made out of cord. The knots are tied this way to prevent them from sliding together. Stephane shows a single example of this knot on his green Camp #11 Exentric photo. I have many wired European nuts and cams with this doubling construction of the carabiner loop, but not many examples in cord.

Stephane - Thanks for the 1976 Camp Stopper and Exentric photos. Yes it looks like for sure that Camp had Camp Stoppers in 1976. Just seems strange that Camp went from the Chouinard clear plastic keeper design of 1976 to the 2” gray plastic keeper in 1980. The Gray keeper slides around on the wires like a jacket where the clear keeper was permanent. Also your slung Camp Stoppers being colored red adds another item to the history list. Cool!

Technically your two uncolored slung Camp Stoppers could be from 1976 or 1980, but the colored red Camp Stopper is unknown since it is not shown in any of the Camp catalogs. I do believe that Camp had their own Stoppers in 1976 since they offer them colored in the catalog listing. However the catalog does not mention what color the 1976 Stoppers are. Green like the Exentrics? Or Red? The red Camp Stopper you have is a valuable piece of history!
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
Wart Hog
Ice Screws

No ice tools or accessories are shown in the Chouinard 1967-68 catalog (gear front cover). In the early 1969 catalog, (price list with photo version), is the start of Chouinard selling ice screws. The list below is ice screws that were offered through the years in the Chouinard catalogs. This story gets interesting when compared to what Wart Hog history is shown through Camp catalogs.

Chouinard catalogs:
 1969 early: Salewa Tubular 2 sizes, Charlet-Moser screw
 1969 late: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes, Salewa Spiral Piton, Charlet-Moser screw
 1970: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes, Salewa Wart Hog, Charlet-Moser screw
 1971: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes, Salewa Wart Hog
 1972: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes, Salewa Wart Hog, Charlet-Moser screw
 1973: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes, Salewa Wart Hog
 1974: Salewa Tubular 3 sizes
 1975: Salewa Tubular 4 sizes, Salewa Spiral Piton
 1976: Chouinard Tubular 4 sizes, Chouinard Wart Hog
 1978: Chouinard Wart Hogs discontinued

The history with Chouinard brand ice screws starts in 1976. It is interesting that Chouinard did not list Ice Screws or the Wart Hog name in the Chouinard “Firsts” list. The Salewa Spiral Piton is the same item as the Salewa Wart Hog. I am not sure if Salewa was first to come up with the “Wart Hog” name, or if Chouinard did since the first year it was offered (1969) it was named a Spiral Piton and the last year it was offered (1975) it was named the same. But all of the years in between it was renamed the Wart Hog. I believe the question is: What name did Salewa give their Wart Hog Spiral Piton in their early 1970s catalogs?


I have a early 1976 Chouinard catalog price list that lists Chouinard Ice Screws, but does not list a Chouinard Wart Hog. I have another 1976 Chouinard catalog that lists Chouinard Ice Screws and the Chouinard Wart Hog.
The top Wart Hog is Chouinard, and below that is a Salewa Wart Hog. Chouinard has a teardrop shape clip eye and Salewa has a oval shape clip eye. Both brand Wart Hogs have a thick pattern of metal spiraling around a center shaft, with one end thick and the other pointed. This type of Wart Hog I refer to as Super Wart Hogs (or “Thick version”). The earlier Salewa Spiral Piton Wart Hog I refer to as a Wart Hog (“Thin version”) since smaller metal points create the spiral effect, over the actual metal wrapping around a center shaft. I am not sure what year Salewa created their thick version Wart Hog (mid 1970s?).

Chouinard Wart Hogs discontinued in 1978. (Only sold for 2 years?)

…………………………………………………………………………………………………….


This is where the fun begins. Now let’s lay out the Chouinard Wart Hog history through the Camp catalogs.
1973 Camp catalog shows a listing with photo of a Chouinard Wart Hog, thick version. If they were retail ready for sale in Europe by 1973, then why did they not appear in the Chouinard catalog until 1976? This 1973 Camp catalog listing states “Chouinard design.”


Looking at the 1976 Camp catalog, it lists a Wart Hog that is “Chouinard design,” but the photo shows a thin version Wart Hog with Chouinard teardrop clip eye. 1976 is when Chouinard introduces the new Chouinard ice screws and Chouinard Wart Hog thick version in the USA. All of the Chouinard Wart Hogs I have seen is the thick version. Does anybody have a thin style Wart Hog with Chouinard brand name on it? Maybe Camp created a Camp Wart Hog and credited Chouinard, because the Wart Hog shown is the same as the Camp brand Wart Hog shown in the 1980 Camp catalog.


In 1986 the thick version Camp Wart Hog was named “Super Wart Hog.” Camp offers both the thin Wart Hog and the thick Wart Hog in their 1986 catalog.


In 1983 Chouinard created the Ice Screw Wrench for screwing in Chouinard Ice screws. In 1984 Chouinard increased the teeth count on the wrench to further ease in placing ice screws. So there are two versions of this wrench. In the Chouinard catalogs the wrench is colored black, but I have seen a red one also.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 16, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
Marty: Interesting to see those Camp catalog pages. Thank you for taking the time to post them.

Re your thoughts/questions on the Chouinard Warthog.

What I own matches your thoughts and photos for the "thick" version shown in the Chouinard catalog photo.

I did weigh one of mine. It weighs 125 grams.

Your Camp 1973 catalog photo shows their thick warthog at 103 grams. Of course almost every manufacturer of outdoor gear lies about gear weight, but by the 1976 Camp catalog, what you term the "thin warthog" is shown as weighting 135 grams.

In the Camp 1980 catalog, their "thick" Chouinard-style warthog is shown as weighting 130 grams.

So------the "thin" Camp Warthog weighs more than the "thick" Camp & Chouinard Warthog?

Looking at the 1976 Camp catalog "thin" warthog, it does not show the flat area where the eye attaches. That would likely be easier to manufacture, but would add a few grams to the weight.

Looks like they kept altering their designs------which is good.

Here's some photos of my Chouinard Warthog.
rurprider

Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
Oct 16, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
Wow, Steve, great stuff!!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Oct 16, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
I have the same warthog Fritz does, near as I can tell.

Weighs in at 126 grams on my scale and was purchased in winter 1976 at just about the time they came out in the usa. The Salewa model I kept seeing at the time did not have the pear eye and was quite a bit lighter. I lent the one I had out to my partner about 30 years ago. I expect he'll ship it back as soon as he is done with it. I'll weigh it then.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
Looking at the three different Wart hogs.
-Chouinard Wart Hog 1976 (left)
-Chouinard Designed Wart Hog 1973 Camp catalog (center)
-Salewa Wart Hog circa ? (right)

The center Wart Hog appears to be made of both the Left and right Wart Hogs. Left has pear shape eye and longer hammer post end. The right has thicker swirling teeth that starts directly from the eye where the Chouinard has a straight shaft to the first tooth directly from the eye. The right also has an oval indention on the shaft above the eye where the mfg stamp is and the center Wart Hog also has this indented oval (can barely see it).
Marty's out of the box theory: The 1973 Camp catalog Wart Hog to me looks like a Salewa with a Chouinard eye. Maybe Chouinard was working with Salewa on creating a new style Wart Hog which came out to be the 1973 Chouinard designed Salewa Wart Hog. The old style Salewa Wart Hog shown in the early Chouinard catalogs name changed in 1975 from Wart Hog back to Spiral Piton. Maybe Chouinard and Salewa had differences so they split up and Chouinard kept his designed eye and Salewa was forced to an oval eye. Chouinard redesigned the Wart Hog creating the Chouinard Wart Hog (thick) which was not ready until 1976, where Chouinard then drops all Salewa ice screws all together from the Chouinard catalog also introducing Chouinard brand ice screws. This does not explain the Chouinard designed Wart Hog thin version shown in the 1976 Camp catalog.

-Does anybody have a Salewa style Wart Hog that has a Chouinard name embossed on the shaft? Looks like 1973 Camp catalog Wart Hog (center).

-Does anybody have a Salewa Wart Hog with a pear shaped eye?

-Does anybody have a thin style Wart Hog with a Chouinard name on it?
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
Borrowed the scale today from Zen Lizard Systems, Chalk
Weighed five times with two different scales, got the same results.

The 1986 Camp Super Wart Hog looks exactly like the 1976 Chouinard Wart Hog.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
Tube Chocks

First introduced July 1973 in three sizes: #4, 5, 6. The width of the tubes are all the same but the length varies. On the bottom side of the chock one of the holes is oversized. This is so webbing or cord can easily be pulled through and the chock can be carried in a vertical position.


Spring 1974 sizes #4 1/2 and 5 1/2 are introduced.


1975 Chouinard catalog shows new Tube Chocks, set of five. “The chocks have two fillets machined at the apex of their tapered ends which help to prevent the chock from rotating in a crack by providing a wider base at the pivot points.” So for collectors there are basically 10 Tube Chocks to find, 5 Tube sizes solid, 5 Tube sizes notched.


Not sure if there was any rhyme or reason to the Mfg “C” stamps and #s on the Tube Chocks. I have seen them stamped on the top, on the sides, (“USA””C” #) or (“C””USA” #) or just (“C” #). One stamped 5 1/2 and another stamped 5.5. My guess would be the oldest Tube Chock is the #5 with the long “C” stamp and no “USA.” But the long “C” stamp is from the mid 1960s and by 1973 most Chouinard products had the USA stamp, which makes the #5 just another random thing?
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2014 - 06:45am PT
Hans Florine visited the Phoenix rock gym friday and got to check out my new PatentWear shirt!
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2014 - 07:52am PT
I finally connected with Phoenix climbing local (legend) Tom Taber. Tom established many routes in Arizona including many cracks at the Overlook climbing area in Oak Creek Canyon. Tom over the years developed his own personal museum of gear which I got to pick through last night. I found a few more items not shown yet on this thread.
This first photo below shows a 1965 medium thick Lost Arrow, which completes my 1965 set, a 1963 Lost Arrow thin with wafer blade (pink), and a 1960 steel 2 1/2 bong (green). The 2 1/2 steel bong is a total gem which compliments the 3” steel bong I have from Jim Bridwell. So still searching for a 2” and 4” steel bong with no lightening holes to prove its existence. Chouinard does not mention what sizes of solid steel bongs were produced in 1960. The firsts list only states “1960 Alloy sheet steel bong,” which now there is proof of two sizes. The green paint suggests that the bong originally belonged to Art Christiansen.
This second photo shows three aluminum bongs painted pink. The 2 1/2 bong with lightening holes is the thinner aluminum version with the larger center lightening hole which is only stamped with the “C” diamond and no USA. This shows that the thinner aluminum bongs with the lightening holes were produced before the thicker aluminum bongs with lightening holes were. The other two solid aluminum bongs shown are from the early 1960s. Tom Taber drilled the additional two holes in the bongs for the webbing.
This third photo shows a 4” aluminum bong with lightening holes painted pink. This bong is the thinner aluminum version which has “C” stamp and “USA.” So bong was produced mid 1960s. The second photo and the third photo show that in the mid 1960s, basically 1965/1966 time, there were four sets of bongs available. Earlier on this thread Fritz shows a solid aluminum bong having the “C” stamp and “USA.” So the four differences are:
-1961-1966 solid aluminum with “C” stamp.
-1966 solid aluminum with “C” and “USA” stamp.
-1966 thin aluminum with lightening holes and “C” stamp.
-1966-1968 thin aluminum with lightening holes with “C” and “USA” stamp.
The Marty theory is that in the mid 1960s Chouinard and Frost were experimenting with aluminum bongs having lightening holes. Already on the market was solid bongs with the “C” stamp so they stamped the new lightening hole bongs with just the “C” stamp as well. A short time afterwards they created the “USA” stamp which was put onto the newer thin lightening hole bongs. They had extra stock of the older solid aluminum bongs which got stamped “USA” and then the older stock was sold off.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
My deadline to complete the Chouinard Equipment display at the Arizona Hiking Shack was by Thanksgiving 2014, and I beat it by one week. Five months of work and it was totally worth it! Seeing the Chouinard display all in one piece is quite inspirational! I am actually surprised that I had this many Chouinard pieces on hand to show. Another Karabin masterpiece completed! 17 panels, 2 shelf displays, and a top grid section for soft goods. Thank you to everybody for your historical input and comments toward the many Chouinard products shown. Thank you to everybody who have donated items to the Karabin Climbing Museum over the years. The AZ Hiking Shack has all of your hiking and climbing gear needs, and is located 3244 E.Thomas Road in Phoenix.


Five month project, 8 cans spray glue, 450 feet of wire, various color poster boards, foam core boards, 150 feet of double stick tape, paint and wood 1/2” boards. The photos of the gear was shot in my back yard on the sidewalk between the house and garage. Sidewalk concrete was poured in 1945. My cat Sasha inspected every piece of gear as the photos were taken. Photos were taken by a iPhone 4S camera. Musical inspiration: Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Grand Funk Railroad, Rush, Who, Jethro Tull, The Doors, Animals, Robin Trower, Santana, Motorhead, and more.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Nov 22, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
Wow, I even see a Baechli in there, impressive collection.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2014 - 11:10am PT
Yes I paid the big ebay price but I finally got a Chouinard Wart Hog for the Museum.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Nov 27, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
That display looks great Marty! Thanks for posting up the pics!!
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
Bump for an incredible display! I am driving home from Sedona tomorrow and want to check it out on my way through Phoenix!
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2014 - 06:53am PT
Found a few more Chouinard catalogs that are not shown yet


This catalog is shown previously on this thread but with the name Great Pacific Ironworks on the cover, where this catalog shows Chouinard Equipment on the cover
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Dec 2, 2014 - 07:01am PT
Thanks for sharing all that gear history Marty. Great job with the exhibit!
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Dec 2, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
Excellent effort Marty! That is a very very nice display.
Jeff Thomas

Trad climber
Milwaukie, Oregon
Jan 1, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Marty

The following advertisement first appeared in the May 1967 issue of Summit. I think the text near the bottom of the ad - "Send for catalog and treatise on the use of Chouinard Equipment for Alpinists" - probably answers the question when the catalog with a Yosemite Hammer and pitons on the front cover was available. It also indicates that the treatise on the use of Chouinard Equipment that you previously displayed on this thread with the red cover was also available by May 1967.


Note that there are three other ads for the 1967 Chouinard catalog in the 1967 issues of Summit including June 1967 (page 34); October 1967 (page 28); and November 1967 (page 32).

Finally I checked all Summit issues for 1968 and 1969 and there is no similar ad for the 1968/1969 catalog with the ice climber on the cover. There are however numerous photos in Chouinard ads in Summit in 1968 and 1969 that also appeared in the 1968/1969 catalog; however all of these photos are posted without any text about a catalog.

Hope this helps. More later on the 1970 catalog.

JT
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
Jeff, Awesome find! This surly gives proof when the catalog was made.
Thanks for posting it!
Maybe the Mazama museum can answer a few more of the mystery questions?
Happy New Year 2015!
Messages 121 - 140 of total 297 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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