Bolt missing on Sundance (get out yer popcorn...)

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 51 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Jun 6, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
The crack in the video is not the crack on Sundance.
When someone talks about the crack needing a bolt, they are not talking
about the one in the video.
If you're disillusioned about the bolt in the video, you're not alone.
That thing looks quite gear-friendly.
Johannsolo

climber
Soul Cal
Jun 6, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
The moves getting past that section are very easy, almost trivial. Especially compared to the moves off the belay. I did not take the hanger but know who did. Sack it up weenies. If your not up for the moves, back off. Get on Mickey Mantle for some heads up old school runouts. Suicide is not a f'ing gym. Anyone want to climb this weekend? Bring your balls and stiffest edging boots.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jun 6, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
bolting cracks has taken on some recent momentum (and I'm not talking about replacing iron with a steel).

It's not happening in just one area. It's happening in well thought out ways in some instance e.g. where the rock quality is questionable and or when it is just small brass pieces, or like JCA's WWS where there probably are never that many big cams in any one state at a given time (tho maybe IC in the Spring is an exception).

However, there are a number of regions where the protection bolts are being placed purely out of convenience. Of course, what does one route matter, right? But it's not just one route anymore.

Mind the rare case where the FA'ist bolted from stance while skeert his shorts, and 'blindered' his way without seeing a protectable crack, pod or hole. It happens.

The question is put: at what point is a small number of bolted cracks ok, and when is a high number bolted cracks not ok?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
Johannsolo is right. Unfortunately it's the weenies who seem to be calling the shots these days.
Damn this looks high

Trad climber
Temecula, CA
Jun 8, 2014 - 06:50am PT
If you want to chop a bolt, do it right after it's installed and only if you're the FA or have permission of the FA party.

It's not about sacking up. It's about the fact that some of the d#@&%ebags out there think they get to decide what is safe for the rest of the climbing world. If I've done the route before and there's a bolt and then next time there isn't and I'm in over my head because I EXPECT it to be there, then YOU, MR. DOUCHEBAG, have endangered MY life. Not OK.

How do you not understand that? It's about REMOVING something that the rest of the climbing world thinks is there. LEAVE IT ALONE. Jesus, you f*#king people are such idiots.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:28am PT
"wow that was dramatic."
x15x15

climber
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:38am PT
Your life is in danger, period! And every time you tie in, it is your decision to climb and you put your own life in danger...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 8, 2014 - 08:52am PT
Well put x15. Apparently the entitlement attitude is alive and well.
cali kat

climber
CA
Jun 8, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
That Youtube account Inlandempiredudes has the WORST climbing advice ever.
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Jun 8, 2014 - 06:05pm PT
If you want to chop a bolt, do it right after it's installed and only if you're the FA or have permission of the FA party.


Mr Scaredy-Cat !!! the FA party DID NOT want that bolt there, some wuss installed it decades later.

climb Sundance the way the FA PARTY did the frikkin route, along with other generations of climbers! if you want safety stay in the gym or on low-angle snow slopes
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 8, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
Do not know anything about this climb but doing it just the way the FA party did it is not always the best style ;) If it is an old enough climb that may involve pounding pins and standing in aiders:)

If you do not know the FA party personaly perhaps you do not know what their real opinion is? If the bolt has been there for decades chopping it now may be a weak move? why do choppers most often do such a hack job of it? they often come off looking like juvenile vandals....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
The 70 and 79 Wilts guides have 5 bolts on this pitch.

Wilts rarely mentioned fixed pins except where old soft iron provided landmarks as the ethic in 70 was to remove all gear if possible.

Vogel & Ganes 93 and 01 both show the fixed pin.

I'm kinda ambivalent about this one. for at least 30-35 years everyone had the fixed pin, but if you can't confidently get to the next bolt without it you probably shouldn't be there.



The pitch ends with a 60'+ runout.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
so you are saying that for 30-35 years the climb had a fixed pin which = a clip. the fixed pin was replaced by a modern bolt which equals a clip.
Chopping the bolt is perhaps a big ego small penis move?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
A footnote to Munge, at the time of th FA of JCAWWS there were No big cams, hence the bolts ....

And also, subsequent ascents ( free attempts) have used modern, big cams, between, the bolts....
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Jun 8, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
Ahhhhhh bullshite !!!

10a bp right off the ledge and that 40ft runout are the only challenges on this route ...thousands of climbers have done the rest with no fp or jackass retro bolt and it is child's play

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jun 8, 2014 - 11:49pm PT
thx Jaybro. It's good line to prove that there aren't absolutes when comes to the ethical issues climbers face.



As to the OP route, has no one claimed removal?

Seems that on long standing routes some semblance of broadspectrum notice is in order.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 9, 2014 - 05:56am PT
Sorry but you can not have it both ways. you can not argue to suck it up and grow a ball sack like the FA but then argue to remove gear that the FA would have had in their quiver. By your argument modern partys should carry a hammer and slam a pin in for that move:)
Damn this looks high

Trad climber
Temecula, CA
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:58am PT
In the age of the Internet, removing protection and NOT reporting it on a forum used by climbers--Mountain Project, Supertoo, etc--makes you a coward and a chicken-hawk and shows a lack of respect for the rest of us. If the person who removed the pins on Etude and the bolt on Surprise and the hanger on Sundance is so proud of doing so, why didn't he let us know?

And, "Mr Scared Cat"? F*#k off. You obviously have no understanding of the issue. The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.

So, if you're going to remove protection, at least report it somewhere. You will not find any mention of the removal of protection from the climbs that I listed BY THE PERSON WHO REMOVED THEM. It's always reported by someone who discovered it by surprise.

NOT OK.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:59am PT
Where is this climb?

Never heard of it.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:16am PT
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/sundance/105788132

Reconsidering, sometimes gear isn't just to protect the leader, but the whole system.

The first bolt is way over on the left end of the ledge and then the route diagonals back right above the ledge before going up to the next bolt.

Coming off there is unlikely, but if you did, you'd potentially clothes line your belayer and anyone else on the ledge.

Unless there's a usable placement for modern gear, the FP or bolt need to go back.



FP was where the rope disappears behind the flake.
first bolt is over to the left out of the frame

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/105830861
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