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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Well put x15. Apparently the entitlement attitude is alive and well.
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cali kat
climber
CA
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That Youtube account Inlandempiredudes has the WORST climbing advice ever.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Do not know anything about this climb but doing it just the way the FA party did it is not always the best style ;) If it is an old enough climb that may involve pounding pins and standing in aiders:)
If you do not know the FA party personaly perhaps you do not know what their real opinion is? If the bolt has been there for decades chopping it now may be a weak move? why do choppers most often do such a hack job of it? they often come off looking like juvenile vandals....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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The 70 and 79 Wilts guides have 5 bolts on this pitch.
Wilts rarely mentioned fixed pins except where old soft iron provided landmarks as the ethic in 70 was to remove all gear if possible.
Vogel & Ganes 93 and 01 both show the fixed pin.
I'm kinda ambivalent about this one. for at least 30-35 years everyone had the fixed pin, but if you can't confidently get to the next bolt without it you probably shouldn't be there.
The pitch ends with a 60'+ runout.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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so you are saying that for 30-35 years the climb had a fixed pin which = a clip. the fixed pin was replaced by a modern bolt which equals a clip.
Chopping the bolt is perhaps a big ego small penis move?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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A footnote to Munge, at the time of th FA of JCAWWS there were No big cams, hence the bolts ....
And also, subsequent ascents ( free attempts) have used modern, big cams, between, the bolts....
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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thx Jaybro. It's good line to prove that there aren't absolutes when comes to the ethical issues climbers face.
As to the OP route, has no one claimed removal?
Seems that on long standing routes some semblance of broadspectrum notice is in order.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sorry but you can not have it both ways. you can not argue to suck it up and grow a ball sack like the FA but then argue to remove gear that the FA would have had in their quiver. By your argument modern partys should carry a hammer and slam a pin in for that move:)
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Damn this looks high
Trad climber
Temecula, CA
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In the age of the Internet, removing protection and NOT reporting it on a forum used by climbers--Mountain Project, Supertoo, etc--makes you a coward and a chicken-hawk and shows a lack of respect for the rest of us. If the person who removed the pins on Etude and the bolt on Surprise and the hanger on Sundance is so proud of doing so, why didn't he let us know?
And, "Mr Scared Cat"? F*#k off. You obviously have no understanding of the issue. The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.
So, if you're going to remove protection, at least report it somewhere. You will not find any mention of the removal of protection from the climbs that I listed BY THE PERSON WHO REMOVED THEM. It's always reported by someone who discovered it by surprise.
NOT OK.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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http://www.mountainproject.com/v/sundance/105788132
Reconsidering, sometimes gear isn't just to protect the leader, but the whole system.
The first bolt is way over on the left end of the ledge and then the route diagonals back right above the ledge before going up to the next bolt.
Coming off there is unlikely, but if you did, you'd potentially clothes line your belayer and anyone else on the ledge.
Unless there's a usable placement for modern gear, the FP or bolt need to go back.
FP was where the rope disappears behind the flake.
first bolt is over to the left out of the frame
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/105830861
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.
We didn't realize you FA'd making it YOUR climb. Oh wait, you didn't.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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If you want to chop a bolt, do it right after it's installed and only if you're the FA or have permission of the FA party.
Well if that's your stance you also better ascribe to If you're gonna add a bolt make sure you have the communities and the FA'ist full approval and do it right.
Seems like if more people did that I wouldn't be quoting you would I??
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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To me , at least.
If one is going to go remove any fixed pro.... be a stand up person and report just what you did and why.
More food for ST.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Where is that damn Scarlett Johannson popcorn eating .gif of mine? Damn thing would come in handy right now.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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What geek does that???
Almost all....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Thanks, TGT.
I just looooove that .gif.
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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......I got nothin'
wait......
Same tired BS
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