Bolt missing on Sundance (get out yer popcorn...)

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 43 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jun 6, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
bolting cracks has taken on some recent momentum (and I'm not talking about replacing iron with a steel).

It's not happening in just one area. It's happening in well thought out ways in some instance e.g. where the rock quality is questionable and or when it is just small brass pieces, or like JCA's WWS where there probably are never that many big cams in any one state at a given time (tho maybe IC in the Spring is an exception).

However, there are a number of regions where the protection bolts are being placed purely out of convenience. Of course, what does one route matter, right? But it's not just one route anymore.

Mind the rare case where the FA'ist bolted from stance while skeert his shorts, and 'blindered' his way without seeing a protectable crack, pod or hole. It happens.

The question is put: at what point is a small number of bolted cracks ok, and when is a high number bolted cracks not ok?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
Johannsolo is right. Unfortunately it's the weenies who seem to be calling the shots these days.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:28am PT
"wow that was dramatic."
x15x15

climber
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:38am PT
Your life is in danger, period! And every time you tie in, it is your decision to climb and you put your own life in danger...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 8, 2014 - 08:52am PT
Well put x15. Apparently the entitlement attitude is alive and well.
cali kat

climber
CA
Jun 8, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
That Youtube account Inlandempiredudes has the WORST climbing advice ever.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 8, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
Do not know anything about this climb but doing it just the way the FA party did it is not always the best style ;) If it is an old enough climb that may involve pounding pins and standing in aiders:)

If you do not know the FA party personaly perhaps you do not know what their real opinion is? If the bolt has been there for decades chopping it now may be a weak move? why do choppers most often do such a hack job of it? they often come off looking like juvenile vandals....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
The 70 and 79 Wilts guides have 5 bolts on this pitch.

Wilts rarely mentioned fixed pins except where old soft iron provided landmarks as the ethic in 70 was to remove all gear if possible.

Vogel & Ganes 93 and 01 both show the fixed pin.

I'm kinda ambivalent about this one. for at least 30-35 years everyone had the fixed pin, but if you can't confidently get to the next bolt without it you probably shouldn't be there.



The pitch ends with a 60'+ runout.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
so you are saying that for 30-35 years the climb had a fixed pin which = a clip. the fixed pin was replaced by a modern bolt which equals a clip.
Chopping the bolt is perhaps a big ego small penis move?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 8, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
A footnote to Munge, at the time of th FA of JCAWWS there were No big cams, hence the bolts ....

And also, subsequent ascents ( free attempts) have used modern, big cams, between, the bolts....
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jun 8, 2014 - 11:49pm PT
thx Jaybro. It's good line to prove that there aren't absolutes when comes to the ethical issues climbers face.



As to the OP route, has no one claimed removal?

Seems that on long standing routes some semblance of broadspectrum notice is in order.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 9, 2014 - 05:56am PT
Sorry but you can not have it both ways. you can not argue to suck it up and grow a ball sack like the FA but then argue to remove gear that the FA would have had in their quiver. By your argument modern partys should carry a hammer and slam a pin in for that move:)
Damn this looks high

Trad climber
Temecula, CA
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:58am PT
In the age of the Internet, removing protection and NOT reporting it on a forum used by climbers--Mountain Project, Supertoo, etc--makes you a coward and a chicken-hawk and shows a lack of respect for the rest of us. If the person who removed the pins on Etude and the bolt on Surprise and the hanger on Sundance is so proud of doing so, why didn't he let us know?

And, "Mr Scared Cat"? F*#k off. You obviously have no understanding of the issue. The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.

So, if you're going to remove protection, at least report it somewhere. You will not find any mention of the removal of protection from the climbs that I listed BY THE PERSON WHO REMOVED THEM. It's always reported by someone who discovered it by surprise.

NOT OK.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 9, 2014 - 08:59am PT
Where is this climb?

Never heard of it.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:16am PT
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/sundance/105788132

Reconsidering, sometimes gear isn't just to protect the leader, but the whole system.

The first bolt is way over on the left end of the ledge and then the route diagonals back right above the ledge before going up to the next bolt.

Coming off there is unlikely, but if you did, you'd potentially clothes line your belayer and anyone else on the ledge.

Unless there's a usable placement for modern gear, the FP or bolt need to go back.



FP was where the rope disappears behind the flake.
first bolt is over to the left out of the frame

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/105830861
Jon Clark

climber
philadelphia
Jun 9, 2014 - 09:52am PT
The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.

We didn't realize you FA'd making it YOUR climb. Oh wait, you didn't.

kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jun 9, 2014 - 10:11am PT
If you want to chop a bolt, do it right after it's installed and only if you're the FA or have permission of the FA party.

Well if that's your stance you also better ascribe to If you're gonna add a bolt make sure you have the communities and the FA'ist full approval and do it right.

Seems like if more people did that I wouldn't be quoting you would I??
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 9, 2014 - 10:16am PT
To me , at least.

If one is going to go remove any fixed pro.... be a stand up person and report just what you did and why.

More food for ST.



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2014 - 10:47am PT
Where is that damn Scarlett Johannson popcorn eating .gif of mine? Damn thing would come in handy right now.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 9, 2014 - 10:49am PT
What geek does that???

Almost all....
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