Discussion Topic |
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 23, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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A little bird told me the bolt that replaced the piton on the second pitch (2nd bolt) ~15 years ago has been pulled and there's no pro for that move.
Just FYI if you want to get on it, might be a ledge fall from ~10-15 feet up.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/sundance/105788132
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
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Maybe it fell out?
This seems most likely.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 24, 2014 - 06:40am PT
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dude never brushed out the hole... and it's right next to a crack....
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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May 24, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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Who's the a$&hole who drilled that bolt right next to a perfect crack? Somebody needs to be slapped.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 11:39am PT
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Who's the a$&hole who drilled that bolt right next to a perfect crack? Somebody needs to be slapped.
The bolt replaced a pin in a seam, and not a very good one, years ago. I think it was Clark? It's not a perfect crack, you should probably know what you are talking about before spewing ;) There are many routes in Idyllwild that have had old pins replaced by bolts, i.e. the crux of Sword of Damoclese. If that doesn't sit right and you'd rather pin after pin be replaced until there is a scar, you don't understand clean climbing... some routes like etude opened up enough for gear but the other routes had no other protection and see high traffic.
Just my opinions, however, and I won't be adding or removing fixed protection any time in the future. Not my thing. I like to at least be updated and I'll happily climb the route either way :)
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WillieW
Trad climber
Hemet ca
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May 25, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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I climbed the route about a month ago and the bolt was there but the hanger was gone, so pretty sure it didn't fall out. More likely some proud ass took it upon them selves to remove the hanger that been there for 10 years.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 25, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
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Maybe it needs a 'Surprise' bolt.
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WillieW
Trad climber
Hemet ca
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May 26, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
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X15x15 Im heading up to north to do some work on thursday for about a week, then I'm off to Tuolumne till August. Shoot me an email if you make it to Tuolumne this summer 19wmw88 at gmail dot com.
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Damn this looks high
Trad climber
Temecula, CA
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I just hate the fact that some as#@&%e gets to appoint himself arbiter of what is acceptable in climbing.
ClIMBING IS NOT A GAME. It's life and death.
When you chop a bolt that other climbers expect to be there--either because it's on the topo or because it's been there for a long time--you endanger their lives. And for what? Your f*#ked up 'ethics'?
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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That pin wasn't there for many years, someone took it upon themselves to add fixed pro to an existing Climb. The fact that the pin/bolt is gone means you'll need to Climb Sun Dance as intended by the Climbers that put the Route up. . . df
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ruppell
climber
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ClIMBING IS NOT A GAME. It's life and death.
LOL. What? Climbing is a game. Both physical and mental. If you deck and die, you loose. That's the reason every book about climbing, every piece of gear sold, has these words:
CLIMBING IS AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS SPORT.
If some climb has a bolt chopped, removed nicely by rockfall , or damaged from years of neglect, it's up to you to decide to push on or puss out. How hard is that to understand? It's up to you the climber. If you die it's on you. If you live it's on you. Most of us live. Is that because of big balls or good judgement? If you don't know I'd bet you have neither.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Why climb it, it's a slab.....life is short, better things to do. Did it in the 70's...once is enough.
edit: It was kind of fun though.
edit 2: I only do slabs once because they serve up too much fright for the amount of exercise they deliver.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Why climb it, it's a slab.....life is short, better things to do.
Donini wins the thread
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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The crack in the video is not the crack on Sundance.
When someone talks about the crack needing a bolt, they are not talking
about the one in the video.
If you're disillusioned about the bolt in the video, you're not alone.
That thing looks quite gear-friendly.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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The moves getting past that section are very easy, almost trivial. Especially compared to the moves off the belay. I did not take the hanger but know who did. Sack it up weenies. If your not up for the moves, back off. Get on Mickey Mantle for some heads up old school runouts. Suicide is not a f'ing gym. Anyone want to climb this weekend? Bring your balls and stiffest edging boots.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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bolting cracks has taken on some recent momentum (and I'm not talking about replacing iron with a steel).
It's not happening in just one area. It's happening in well thought out ways in some instance e.g. where the rock quality is questionable and or when it is just small brass pieces, or like JCA's WWS where there probably are never that many big cams in any one state at a given time (tho maybe IC in the Spring is an exception).
However, there are a number of regions where the protection bolts are being placed purely out of convenience. Of course, what does one route matter, right? But it's not just one route anymore.
Mind the rare case where the FA'ist bolted from stance while skeert his shorts, and 'blindered' his way without seeing a protectable crack, pod or hole. It happens.
The question is put: at what point is a small number of bolted cracks ok, and when is a high number bolted cracks not ok?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Johannsolo is right. Unfortunately it's the weenies who seem to be calling the shots these days.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"wow that was dramatic."
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Well put x15. Apparently the entitlement attitude is alive and well.
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cali kat
climber
CA
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That Youtube account Inlandempiredudes has the WORST climbing advice ever.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Do not know anything about this climb but doing it just the way the FA party did it is not always the best style ;) If it is an old enough climb that may involve pounding pins and standing in aiders:)
If you do not know the FA party personaly perhaps you do not know what their real opinion is? If the bolt has been there for decades chopping it now may be a weak move? why do choppers most often do such a hack job of it? they often come off looking like juvenile vandals....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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The 70 and 79 Wilts guides have 5 bolts on this pitch.
Wilts rarely mentioned fixed pins except where old soft iron provided landmarks as the ethic in 70 was to remove all gear if possible.
Vogel & Ganes 93 and 01 both show the fixed pin.
I'm kinda ambivalent about this one. for at least 30-35 years everyone had the fixed pin, but if you can't confidently get to the next bolt without it you probably shouldn't be there.
The pitch ends with a 60'+ runout.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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so you are saying that for 30-35 years the climb had a fixed pin which = a clip. the fixed pin was replaced by a modern bolt which equals a clip.
Chopping the bolt is perhaps a big ego small penis move?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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A footnote to Munge, at the time of th FA of JCAWWS there were No big cams, hence the bolts ....
And also, subsequent ascents ( free attempts) have used modern, big cams, between, the bolts....
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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thx Jaybro. It's good line to prove that there aren't absolutes when comes to the ethical issues climbers face.
As to the OP route, has no one claimed removal?
Seems that on long standing routes some semblance of broadspectrum notice is in order.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sorry but you can not have it both ways. you can not argue to suck it up and grow a ball sack like the FA but then argue to remove gear that the FA would have had in their quiver. By your argument modern partys should carry a hammer and slam a pin in for that move:)
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Damn this looks high
Trad climber
Temecula, CA
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In the age of the Internet, removing protection and NOT reporting it on a forum used by climbers--Mountain Project, Supertoo, etc--makes you a coward and a chicken-hawk and shows a lack of respect for the rest of us. If the person who removed the pins on Etude and the bolt on Surprise and the hanger on Sundance is so proud of doing so, why didn't he let us know?
And, "Mr Scared Cat"? F*#k off. You obviously have no understanding of the issue. The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.
So, if you're going to remove protection, at least report it somewhere. You will not find any mention of the removal of protection from the climbs that I listed BY THE PERSON WHO REMOVED THEM. It's always reported by someone who discovered it by surprise.
NOT OK.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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http://www.mountainproject.com/v/sundance/105788132
Reconsidering, sometimes gear isn't just to protect the leader, but the whole system.
The first bolt is way over on the left end of the ledge and then the route diagonals back right above the ledge before going up to the next bolt.
Coming off there is unlikely, but if you did, you'd potentially clothes line your belayer and anyone else on the ledge.
Unless there's a usable placement for modern gear, the FP or bolt need to go back.
FP was where the rope disappears behind the flake.
first bolt is over to the left out of the frame
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/105830861
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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The point is: Who gets to decide? Is it YOU? Why do you get to decide MY climb? The answer is you don't.
We didn't realize you FA'd making it YOUR climb. Oh wait, you didn't.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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If you want to chop a bolt, do it right after it's installed and only if you're the FA or have permission of the FA party.
Well if that's your stance you also better ascribe to If you're gonna add a bolt make sure you have the communities and the FA'ist full approval and do it right.
Seems like if more people did that I wouldn't be quoting you would I??
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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To me , at least.
If one is going to go remove any fixed pro.... be a stand up person and report just what you did and why.
More food for ST.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Where is that damn Scarlett Johannson popcorn eating .gif of mine? Damn thing would come in handy right now.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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What geek does that???
Almost all....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Thanks, TGT.
I just looooove that .gif.
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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......I got nothin'
wait......
Same tired BS
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| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
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