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WBraun
climber
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Aug 26, 2006 - 11:37pm PT
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Blackbird
Yes lip reading is the trick, I've been doing it for 50 years, and it's natural for me.
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blackbird
Trad climber
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Aug 26, 2006 - 11:47pm PT
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You've got 25 years on me... You'd think I'd be better at it than I am after this long! Oh, some of the gaffes I've made over the years as a result!! Of course, there is the ability to (legitimately?!) play dumb when the need arises... and then there's the selective hearing... Oh, but that gives away all the secrets, doesn't it?! I'll stop before I spill the beans any more and ruin it for all of us out there!!
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Aug 26, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
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Good or bad, they are all experiences in life. And for that, I am so grateful to be one of oh so few that has been allowed to live such a rich life of experiences. If I were to "Move on" tonight in my sleep, I would be so grateful for all that I have been blessed to live through. I am the richest dude on the planet these days. I have no place to bitch about anything.
Be good gents... till tomorrow if I am allowed to live another day, eh?
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blackbird
Trad climber
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Aug 27, 2006 - 12:13am PT
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Honestly, UB, none of us have anything to fuss about...
Cheers, all. I'm off to sleep so I can go play with my gear tomorrow!
BB
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 27, 2006 - 12:54am PT
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best little conversation i've been privy too for some time.
it's all about opportunity and what we bring to it.
this is good livin',
cheers,
roy.
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Conrad
climber
MT
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Aug 28, 2006 - 08:51am PT
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With humans wandering this planet for thousands of years there are probably many stories that required a fair amount of suffering, hence mental toughness to endure. Think of the Polynesians sailing across the South Pacific or North East Asians sailing / paddling / walking across to what is now Alaska.
In recent 20th century history a few epics come to mind, in addition to the venerable Shackelton story. In the Antarctic, Douglas Mawson gets left behind, on the continent, afer a failed expedition to winter over. He lives off of his dogs and nearly dies of Vitamin A poisoning from the dog liver he ate. Check out 'Mawson's Will" by Lennard Bickel.
Also in Antarctica Apsely Cherry-Garrard and three budies leave the comfort of camp in 1914 to walk 60 miles to a penguin colony (in winter) so that they may observes the animals and conduct science. With in the gist of this thread everything goes bad. They suffer a cold miserable existence.
For the Polish standard (known for a high level of mental toughness) Slavomir Rawicz in the "The Long Walk" recounts escaping a Soviet gulag in WWII to hike to India and eventual freedom. No supermarkets or mid route caches.
In the theme of land walks around the time WWII Heinrich Harrer and his escape from Britsh India to Lhasa is rather remarkable. I doubt one could get this lost in current times - too many people and borders.
A recent entry is "The Life of Pi" - a story of a young man lost at sea in a life boat with a tiger. They co-exist (predator and prey), encounter a floating island of venus fly trap type of trees and eventually make landfall in Central America. Makes not getting cell reception seem trivial.
On a more climbing related theme mental toughness training comes to mind. The late Mugs Stump played football at PennState under the tutelage of Joe Paterno. He was all into training of the mind. One example was to drive from SLC to Yosemite with out talking. 18 hours of silence. It "sounds" easy yet by Reno one realizes how much idle chatter fills our lives.
Ok - time to get the groms off to the first day of school.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Aug 28, 2006 - 09:34am PT
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When sports announcers talk about mental toughness with respect to MJ and Tiger, they are not talking about the ability to endure pain. They are talking about the ability to focus and stay in the present. To find a way to win, when their A-game is not there.
For example, Tiger averages one stroke per round better than all but 5 guys on the PGA tour. In 2000, there might have been only one within one stroke per round on average. That means, that "on average" he will beat them all by about over 4 strokes per tournament which is a pretty big margin. He has a higher winning percentage over his professional career by far than anybody who ever played, yet he has won just 26% of all of the events he has entered. But every time he enters a tournament there are 125 guys who could beat him, if they get there at the right point, on a streak of 3 or 4 really top days. (On a typical day, 5-10 of them will beat him.) Tiger has been "beaten" about 140 times, and won 52 times. What makes Tiger mentally tough is to manage to come to the course with a game plan that is best suited to his game and stick to it. He is prepared to win, not just with his best game, but even with his slightly above average game. He is able to forget history, his last shot, and focus on what he needs to do with his next shot. Finally, he is able to reinvent his game - to raise it to a new level - as the rest of the tour strives to improve to his.
Ultrabiker - Learn from cattle. Face downwind and your sense of smell and vision will complement each other. :-)
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Aug 28, 2006 - 10:05am PT
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BAH BAH BAH... Sheep and Cattle get eaten and are dominated. Wolverines run and frolic into the wind and storm without fear and nothing dares mess with them!
CONRAD:
Let's not forget the great Shackleton and his amazing journey of survival and leadership.
Or, Wilfred Theisger, one of the greatest explorer's of all time! Now there's a whole thread of it's own!
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Aug 28, 2006 - 07:37pm PT
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Ultrabiker-
My Big Bro was a bit before you in Class 98.
He was a plank owner at 'SIX'... not that he'd call it that.
Maybe you had an Instructor Fay down at Coronado.
Thanks for your service. Glad you had a good time ;-}.
I took a couple guys from 'One' up on Tahquitz for their first climbing.
Another day at the office for them.
Both followed up 5.9 on their first day and got up onto, and past the
real horn on Traitor Horn with out issue. (Been there ?)
Good guys. Well trained minds.
Beauty rock on your route.
Any clues on its location ?
Fair Winds & Following Seas
Bart
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goatboy smellz
climber
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Feb 15, 2007 - 12:50am PT
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Got caught in a slide the other day on a route in the trees I've done a hundred times before.
Complacency will kick your ass.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
gone 'til november
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Feb 15, 2007 - 03:36am PT
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yea, toughness doesn't count if you put yourself into the situation voluntarily!!!
it's only true toughness if you had no control over whether or not you were in the situation in the first place.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 25, 2017 - 11:41am PT
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Soo, who in the climbing world stands out in you mind that possesses Mental Toughness.
Uh, Alex Honnold?
yea, toughness doesn't count if you put yourself into the situation voluntarily!!!
Really? lol
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 25, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
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Does it need to be someone who has survived, who has been successful time after time, or might it be someone who fell to their death the first time they tried to solo butterballs?
IMHO, what our survivor biased belief processes tell us maybe is that Honnold tops the list of mental toughness, when there might have been many other folks who just didn't survive their mental toughness quite so well, so we're unaware of their mental toughness.
If you're a warrior who chooses to go into battle, and you fight and you fight against overwhelming odds, and end up falling in battle, are you less mentally tough than the warrior who survived, maybe against less overwhelming odds? Maybe a climber who was less athletically gifted, but had more confidence in their abilities and resilience and willingness to act according to their own self-perceived abilities?
We take the information that survives into our belief processes and then conclude that we know the answer from our survival biased information, and aren't we just so clever to have been survival-biased by that information and to have derived such a logically and truthfully correct belief?
We're humans. Our logically laughable belief processes are just evidence of the magnificence of our human achievements. At least to humans and our logically laughable belief processes they are. :-) We rule the universe in our own minds.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Jun 25, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
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Todd explained it well. "I have watched climbers bitch about a two hour descent in Yosemite, and watched my uncle Courtney sit in the open at 40 below all night and not bat an eye."
Not only has the Skinner clan had passes and lakes named for them, Courtney has a whole Mountain range! Proud to call them all friends and tougher than me!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 25, 2017 - 04:47pm PT
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From the British Library-
Captain Scott (1868–1912), is perhaps the most famous Arctic explorer in British history. He was the leader of the failed 1912 South Pole expedition, and has become legendary both for his heroic endurance and sense of commitment. After a gruelling journey, Scott’s team arrived to find they had been beaten by the Norwegian team. The remainder of the British team would all die on their return journey due to short supplies of food, appalling weather conditions and sickness.
This is Scott’s final journal entry, from 27 March 1912, the day he and his remaining companions died. (Scott’s colleague Oates had already sacrificed himself, exiting the tent with the now famous words, ‘I am just going outside and may be some time’.) Given the treacherous conditions, the very fact that he could pick up a pen to write this journal is incredible. The painfully scrawled final words read ‘For God’s sake look after our people’. Celebrated after his death, Scott was later criticised by some for making bad decisions, such as refusing to eat the expedition dogs when supplies ran out.
Captain Scott's Diary, last entry:
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course and the end cannot be far. It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. For God's sake, look after our people.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 25, 2017 - 05:08pm PT
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Hard to beat Shackleton after the loss of Endurance. Living on pack ice. Hundreds to miles of navigation in open boats and did not lose a man.
Can you imagine trying to keep the morale of the crew going?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jun 25, 2017 - 05:52pm PT
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Marko Prezelj comes to mind as a mentally tough dude . . . good to see this thread rise from the ashes.
Hazel Findlay and Mike Libecki deserve honorable mentions.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 25, 2017 - 06:19pm PT
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You want mental toughness? Cornish hard rock miners in the 18th and 19th centuries dug
adits out beneath the sea floor to mine copper and tin. They spent an hour and a half climbing
1800' down wooden ladders, for which they were not paid, to get to the tunnels where they
worked 6 hours before spending two more hours climbing back up the ladders. They had an
average life expectancy of 24 years.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 25, 2017 - 06:32pm PT
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Well I don't know anything about toughness, but my neighbor was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (not much life expectancy) and as an effect of the cancer suffered numerous strokes which have for all intents and purposes left him blind.
He remains unbelievably upbeat despite being in so much pain that they've put him on methadone.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 25, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
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Mental Toughness is an inherent property of every living entity when it digs deep into their soul .......
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