Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 21, 2006 - 11:17am PT
|
OK Folks,
I was listening to a debate on Fox Sports News this morning about who in sports has the most mental toughness. Names like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods came up. It occured to me that mental toughness is certainly an important trait in climbing. Soo, who in the climbing world stands out in you mind that possesses Mental Toughness. Of course Harding's mental toughness is well chronicled.
Cracko
|
|
Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 11:52am PT
|
Anyone who has removed a tooth using climbing tools, while stuck on a remote face somewhere!!!!!
Seriously, Twight comes to mind, as do the two guys who did the Azzem(sp?) Ridge a few years back - they dropped their stove, and most of the cams on the second day, but they continued on up and over nonetheless
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 11:59am PT
|
Sports stars mental toughness? Blah
Mental toughness, the single mom who has to work for a living. Her job never ends.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 12:08pm PT
|
Toush-ay Werner.
|
|
Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
|
Yup, can't argue with that one!
We've got one tech in our lab, busts her ass all day, then goes home and is mom for the rest of the night. Respect......
|
|
Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2006 - 01:02pm PT
|
Werner,
Don't forget the single dad man !!!
Cracko
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 01:14pm PT
|
Leave it to Werner to give us a dose of perspective. I think you'll find that this is why a lot of these hard core climbers don't have kids. Its too hard.
Irish- That was Kelly Cordes and Josh Wharton. All those hard core alpinists are somewhere between mentally tough and batsh#t-crazy. House, Twight, Blanchard, Kirkpatrick...
But then again, I think some of those guys enjoy suffering. Does it really count as mental toughness if you're enjoying it?
|
|
Sir Run-it-out
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 01:25pm PT
|
I fear I must disagree with Werner. Yes, we all feel sympathy for the single parent, working all day and night to put food on the able. But what about the alpinist with an injured partner, far from help, who must make decisions as to their immediate survival. Or worse yet, decide that the only way for one of them to survive is to abandon the other. And make these decisions in a very short period of time, based on limited information, under extreme stress, while experiencing serious physical hardship that affect cognitive function.
I guess it depends how you define "mental toughness". Is it something that is demonstrated on a medium level continuously over a period of many years, or the ability to react well to incredibly tough situations, but which (one way or another) will be over in a few days.
Of course, if the climber in question is a low income single parent, then they're obviously the winner.
|
|
dirtbagger
Ice climber
Australia
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 03:20pm PT
|
well I just been climbing with Andy Kirkpatrick.....well actually he was teaching me how to aid climb solo and I must say, he comes across as a totally normal person, even though he seems to love to suffer (he even admits that)!
I don't know what constitutes mental toughness, except that I know I don't seem to have it and need to work on it! Last time I did 3 hook moves after each other, my mind was fried and I was quaking in my boots!
So not sure if I would say Andy Kirkpatrick is mentally tough as much as he seems pretty determined and maybe its that which makes up mental toughness?????
If you ever get the chance to watch Cold Haul its a interesting film showing Andy & Ian Parnell (sp?) climbing the Laiffaie(sp?) route on the west face of the Petit Dru (Mont Blanc) in winter! And all I can say, it looks cold and unpleasant I blieve it has at least one A5 pitch?
|
|
Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 04:06pm PT
|
In American climbing it's got to be John Salathe. I agree with Harding too. If vision, determination and ability to march on to success no matter what is mental toughness then those guys are crowned princes.
I think mental toughness in most sports is too hard to read. Why is it that the most talented guys get labeled as mentally tough (Woods, Montana, MJ, Grezky, etc.)? Are all pro sports really just mental games? If so what does talent have to do with it? I know it’s a combination of things but I think we're talking about mental toughness in the clutch or “when the going gets tough”. I honestly don't think you can measure that so easily in a 3 hour game. Sure sometimes you can, like when MJ scored 39 points in the finals against the Jazz and he had the flu. I watched that game and it truly was an amazing display of determination. But that was a rare exception.
Now imagine days of dehydration, starvation, sleep deprivation, weight loss, digestive tract changes, emotional roller coasters, exposure, discomfort, illness, these are the things that really take a toll on the mind. How much at that level do the sports stars really deal with consistently? Wall climbers and alpinists, along with sailors and trailblazers are the toughest. Oh and fighters (wrestlers, boxers, competative martial arts, etc.) too. Those guys are trained to be mentally tough. If you've even been to wrestling or a serious martial arts or boxing practice you'll know what I'm talking about. It's like off-widths and squeeze chims at your limit 5 days a week for months on end with increasing demands for speed and efficiency every week. That will make you tough.
Competitiveness, that’s another story. About MJ, he had to race 12 year olds in the swimming pool and beat them he was so damn competitive! Ping pong too! He’s so competitive it’s annoying to be around him. That’s why many basket ball players (my brother was one and played against MJ) don’t consider him the best, just the most competitive.
BTW, I was raised by a single mom. It wasn’t mental toughness that pulled us though before she remarried. It was more akin to faith. Sure she’s tough, but that’s not one of her stronger traits.
|
|
blackbird
Trad climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 04:15pm PT
|
Teachers; particularly, special education teachers.
(Since many of the climbers I know are teachers, I feel that this is a valid answer!)
BB
|
|
JAK
climber
The Souf
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 05:49pm PT
|
First time climber asked me in the gym a few months ago what percentage of climbing I thought was mental. I said at least 85%.
Upon reflection, I think that's pretty close to accurate.
|
|
Twight is God
Mountain climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 10:18pm PT
|
Here's a quick 5:
Reinhold Messner, Jerzy Kukuckza, Voytek Kurtyka, Tomaz Humar, Jean-Christope Lafaille
|
|
DixieGal
Trad climber
NC
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
|
Hey Twight-is-God,
Is God mentally tough?
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
Good question?
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 10:33pm PT
|
A single parent, who climbs and is a special ed teacher in the inner city.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 11:11pm PT
|
What's that Hemingway quote:
Something like,
There's only three sports, bullfighting, auto racing and mountain climbing.
All the rest are games.
It seems clear that wall climbing gives way to alpinism and that's the cake taker.
If you just read the Mountain Profiles in Alpinist, it seems that the position for toughest mental adept is up for grabs and being won by all kinds of people who do that stuff.
When Russ and I were doing The Prow, he was sick with the flu, or a pretty bad cold. We got to the base and he had no harness; he just fashioned a makeshift sit harness out of one-inch webbing and up we went. At one point, I saw him step off the belay and up into his aiders. At that moment I had this subtle epiphany: I had a pretty good idea how poorly he felt and he was just charging forth -although The Prow is no big deal, I felt like I could see into his resolve and I knew that if he wanted, he could be an alpinist.
I went on to do primarily free climbs for myself, while Russ did in fact tackle some pretty gnarly wall games,
-er, sports.
To get a little thread drifty here:
I find free climbing (notwithstanding some of the tremendous free soloists of our times), with its simple, clean and forthright solutions pegs at a level of elegance, before it tops out on mental toughness.
What I have found interesting is comparing rigorous aerobic sports with climbing in terms of the mental toughness quotient.
If you think of Lance Armstrong, man, anybody completing a Tour de France for that matter, there is inordinate mental toughness at play.
My wife has been in two of those Tours; when I started riding with her, I began to notice how arduous and repetitive that style of athletics is, which I found quite mentally straining; especially when riding big hills, because Lisa with her clean burning Zen like demeanor would ride up away from me, while I was straining to the max and suffering every moment of it. By contrast, when you're climbing you have this sweet boost of adrenaline that seems to cut through, to lift and to lighten the mental load.
Of course, once you get aerobic athletics dialed it has its own sort of internal return, which again seems to lighten the mental strain: more of an endorphin than an adrenaline.
Nevertheless, I think climbing has a very unique and uplifting internal return, which bolsters our mental toughness.
|
|
golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2006 - 11:29pm PT
|
Jay said"Competitiveness, that’s another story. About MJ, he had to race 12 year olds in the swimming pool and beat them he was so damn competitive! Ping pong too! He’s so competitive it’s annoying to be around him. That’s why many basket ball players (my brother was one and played against MJ) don’t consider him the best, just the most competitive."
Uh, Jay, not to disparage or question your bro, but isnt the point of BBall to win? then by its very nature it IS competitive. Therefore, competitiveness is a key ingredient to being a winning player in the NBA. I do think you are onto something. Seems like there are many pro games where they dont seem like they want to win very bad. That made MJ much more fun to watch, you just knew the guy would put out 100%...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2006 - 12:50am PT
|
Which would involve more mental toughness, Russ doing the Prow now, or with the flu back then?
Tiger Woods mentally tough? Give me a break. Being a mega-millionaire famous guy is probably tough but those guys won't be tough until they start killing some of the losers at random.
Toughness starts where talent and experience ends.
That Joe Simpson story kinda sums it up though
Peace
Karl
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2006 - 12:58am PT
|
" Teachers; particularly, special education teachers."
-Blackbird,
are you single?
do you like offwidth?
Had to ask.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2006 - 01:13am PT
|
Bridwell and me once worked rebuilding some rich guys pier on lake Tahoe. We were dismantling the old one when a huge nail in one of the supports rips the flesh in Bridwells arm, about 7 inches long. A real nasty looking cut. He screamed!
We go inside the rich guys house and Bridwell asks if there's a doctor in the house. Believe it, there's some guy there at that moment who's a med school to be doctor. Bridwell asks if he has stitches in his bag and if he knows how to do it. The future to be doc tells him that he's only done cadavers.
Bridwell tells doc to get his sh#t and start stitching. The doc gets kinda queasy and says he needs a beer. Beer was given. Bridwell sticks a rag in his mouth and doc stitches him up. No local anesthetic or pain killers, nothing.
All finished stitching and we go back out to the lake to work till dark
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!