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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 11, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
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Tacos who drive Tacos:
Looking at the Subaru thread got me thinking about our coming Tacoma purchase. Besides occasional trips around town and lightly loaded with a shell, this rig will be used for towing an A-frame, pop-up trailer, dry weight about 1,400 lbs. For max mpg's and such, I was thinking manual 5 spd. so we can use the overdrive on flat stretches. Any thoughts on the 4 spd. auto vs. 5 spd. manual, especially considering our intended use?
Thanks!
BAd
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 11, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
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Auto
'06 Tacoma
I tow this:
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grover
climber
Northern Mexico
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May 11, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Thread drift.......
Nature what brand is the camper?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 11, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
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grover: Four Wheel
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
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Hey, Nature:
Between the camper and the trailer, that's a fair load. We're gunning for the 2.7L 4 banger. You slingin' 4 or 6? What kind of mpg do you get with that combined rig?
BAd
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 11, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
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it's the 4 liter v6. 23 empty, 19 w/ camper, 16-17 w/ camper & trailer
I installed the Firestone air assist kit. The trailer gets pretty heavy with 50-60 gallons of water, battery, and the rest of the sushi kitchen. So I load everything on the tongue and pump up the air assist. I can tell I'm pulling weight but it's generally a smooth ride.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 11, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
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I had an 06 2.7 4x4 5speed manual tacoma - recently sold it with 160k on it.
I will say that the clutches are bullet proof - I was still on my factory clutch and a buddy has 250k on his 05 factory clutch.
I think you might be a somewhat underpowered towing with that set up. I had a shell, with drawers platform for bed, etc and keep it pretty loaded. In this set up it was slightly underpowered any sort of grade.
The bummer about toyota is they don't let you mix and match much. You need to go with a pre runner or 4x4 to even get the 6, and you can only get the 6 speed manual with the 4x4 6cyl (lame)...Anyhow if your getting the 4x4 i'd seriously consider coughing up the coin for the 6cly and going with the 6 speed manual.
Alternatively you could just ditch the trailer and get a van!
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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May 11, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
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Bought a new '14 4x4 Tacoma, automatic, 2.7 4 cylinders, extra cab.
Installed camper shell. A heavy load of camping/climbing gear seems semi-permanent. Put on 11,000 miles in 5 months.
My first automatic. Observations:
Happy with automatic; can drink coffee and other beverages, no spillage, no fumbling gears. There are rare times, going up hills, accelerating into traffic, out of bends, that manual would be better.
Automatic is great off road, allows super-smooth stopping and inch-by-inch easing over huge boulders and steps on steep terrain. I'm sure it'd be great for backing up gently, with a trailer, on a hill.
Though if I expected to be towing anything, I'd consider the 6-cylinder, for a bit more power, torque.
Issues: Headlights way too high. Asked dealer to them to adjust them down, they said there were already adjusted as low as they would go. Weird. I wonder if the suspension is optimized for the much heavier 4-liter engine and the lighter front end brings the lights up. Added a leaf spring in the back, lights are now lined up perfectly and, bonus! I'm not scraping the muffler so often.
Cut couple inches off the mud flaps, they were hanging too low.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2014 - 06:56pm PT
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Been reading a lot about towing, and the 2.7L should do the job. Folks are getting 20 mpg on the flats, which is my goal. We'll be a little slow up hill, but we can handle that. These Tacomas seem like the ultimate little truck! Folks beat the hell out of them and they keep takin' it.
BAd
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 11, 2014 - 07:09pm PT
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Are you getting a 4x4?
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
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Nope, 2wd. We'd hardly ever use 4X4, and we're more interested in mpg. 4X4 is cool, but it kills the mpg.
BAd
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 11, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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mine is 2wd. only time i wish i had 4wd is when i'm driving on a powder day.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
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Nice to hear, Nature.
BAd
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 11, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
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So I load everything on the tongue and pump up the air assist.
You load everything in the camper or everything in the trailer on the tongue?
I though I had about the recommended 9-15% of gross trailer weight on the tongue of my trailer until I measured it with a bathroom scale. I was way over.
I re-did my trailer to get everything as far back as possible to get it correctly balanced and it handles way better now in turns and in braking.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 11, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
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Toss out my power statement - you may be ok with 2wd. And yes the mileage is much better with 2wd...but 4x4 is fun :)
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 11, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
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I bought the trailer at a trailer yard in Tucson. Locally owned. One of those guys who's a lifer in the biz. He pointed out that with the gas assist all my weight can be in the trailer on the tongue.
makes sense as the vehicle has no weight and the weight is low and forward.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 11, 2014 - 09:05pm PT
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Nature,
We need to go diving this year...just saying...Maybe climb too!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 12, 2014 - 09:36am PT
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I'm in kev... would like to join ya on a shark trip.
Raja Ampat for me in Feb :)
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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May 12, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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Crunch: Wondering what kind of mpg's you're getting on that '14 4-cyl?
Edit: curious about city vs. highway as well...
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jopay
climber
so.il
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May 12, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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I have a 2010 4x4 Tacoma extended cab v6, 6 speed manual, I thought I wanted a four cylinder until I drove a v6, plus it was a 6sp manual which was fun, but I'm a child of the sixties and to me all vehicles should be manual. Plenty of power and fun rowing the gears, I would be hesitant to go extra cab and pull what you're considering, I'm sure it would, just not as easily as the v6. I get 20mpg.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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May 12, 2014 - 11:11am PT
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I like auto for traffic reasons and if I get injured...it's way easier to drive.
4x4 rules though..
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sempervirens
climber
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May 12, 2014 - 11:39am PT
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I'd go for the 5-spd manual. My 1990 Toyo pickup, 5-spd manual, 2WD, 4-cyl. with extra cab got a consisten 30 mpg. In 2010 I bought a 2004 Tacoma, 2WD, 4-spd, 4-cyl. automatic with extra cab. It is heavier so has less power to climb and accelerate. And get 22 mpg, tops. I'd go with manual (i do like to be lazy, drink coffee and eat my scone while driving, and that is an advantage of the auto). I think they phased out the 4cyl., 5-spd purposely to get people to go with the V6.
I agree with Nature about the 2WD - the only time I wish I had it is on powder days. The 2WD Tacoma is not a good snow vehicle. Most small front-wheel drive vehicles perform better in snow, eh.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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May 12, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
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Auto with 6cyl here. Dislike clutch on the knee after long climbing day.
Seems like towing with a 4cyl would be nightmarish, but I speak only from dedicated ignorance.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 12, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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I think they phased out the 4cyl., 5-spd purposely
Not phased out at all - you just cant get the 4cyl with the 6speed.
Munge - you know mine was a 4 cyl.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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I really appreciate y'allz comments here.
The 2014 4cyl. Tacoma has a tow rating of 3,500 lbs. We expect to be towing about half that. We won't be all zippy up Sherwin grade, but we will be fine. Nice to know about the diffs between the two trannies. We're going 5spd. manual.
@Locker: I figured someone would take my terminology the way you did, and I love you for it! Hugs and kisses across the webs for you!
BAd
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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May 12, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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I'm curious what folks think are the real advantages of manual transmission are these days. I get that there is a perception that it is "cooler" and more involving of the driver.
But the numbers that I see on fuel economy are pretty even. And many automatics these days can be shifted much like a manual. I have no problem downshifting my automatic to keep speeds down and reduce braking on long downhills.
Manuals may be cheaper in the initial purchase. Is that really all that's left as an advantage?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 12, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
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The only thing manuals have lost to automatics is fuel economy in some cases. You can still push start one and they are still far more reliable and rarely break.
In some cases automatics are superior offroad. This depends on specific gearing options of the vehicle in question
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
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I used to think manuals were better when you were in a deep hole in snow or
sand cause you could rock it but with an auto and a locking diff who needs
to do that anymore?
And few people can drive a manual well enough to beat an auto on fuel mileage.
We all would like to think we can but who wants to have to pay attention?
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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May 12, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
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I have an 05, Tacoma, 4x4, manual transmission, with nearly 240,000 miles.
I have had some issues. Syncro problem shifting into 3rd at a little over 75k (double shifting made it tolerable) that has since gone away with a "special gearbox fluid" that the dealership could not fix so I took it to a specialty Toyota shop to take care of. The dealership had told me that at some point I would need a new $4000 transmission!
Next up was a new bell housing that cost quite a bit (my syncro problem went away at nearly the same time). They had never seen the problem before.
My shop says that Toyota auto transmissions are the way to go. No problems.
I dearly love manual transmissions unless I'm in traffic........
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Dec 14, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
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Quote Here
May 12, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
I'm curious what folks think are the real advantages of manual transmission are these days. I get that there is a perception that it is "cooler" and more involving of the driver.
But the numbers that I see on fuel economy are pretty even. And many automatics these days can be shifted much like a manual. I have no problem downshifting my automatic to keep speeds down and reduce braking on long downhills.
Manuals may be cheaper in the initial purchase. Is that really all that's left as an advantage?
driver engagement and "cool" factor are valid points. Fuel economy seems to be a wash; historically, manuals have out-performed autos, but these days autos and CVTs demonstrate (marginally) better mileage
I don't think there's any paddle-shift substitute for manual control of the gears. also, I think some automatics prohibit paddle-shifting into certain bands of the tachometer -- bands one might want to inhabit when, say, merging onto the freeway
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 14, 2014 - 10:14pm PT
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I guess it all depends on if you are delusional and think you are driving in a Grand prix or flying an F-16...If you baby a manual transmission or an automatic it will last a long time...What's cheaper...? Replacing the clutch , throw-out bearing , and pressure plate or changing the filter and screen on an automatic...?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 14, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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I don't think there's any paddle-shift substitute for manual control of the gears
When was the last real manual transmission in a serious race car?
Join the 21st century.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 14, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
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When was the last time you paddle-shifted a tranny...? Was that directed at Locker..?
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2014 - 06:16am PT
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Hey guys, for what it's worth, we decided to stick with our ultra-low mileage Tundra. With conservative driving, cruising up and down the East Side, we can average 17+ mpg towing our pop-up A-frame trailer, which surprised us since we have the 5.4L V8. The Tundra has the six spd. auto that is a pleasure to drive, and we've got plenty of stank to get up and down that rotten road to Clark Canyon, which we tap a couple of times a year. I mean, we did it WITH the trailer this year.
The Tacoma would have been marginally better vehicle, perhaps, in it's overall use, but since we love the Tundra so much, we didn't see much advantage to switching, dealing with depreciation, the hassle of the switch, etc. We did get a nice shell for the long bed, however, and now we've got endless storage and a nice place to sleep if we want to leave the trailer behind. This is another advantage: I'm 6'4", so stretching out in the Tacoma wasn't going to happen.
Carry on...
BAd
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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new Tacoma to hit the dealers this summer. looks legit. could probably haul you and your fanny pack up Buttermilk Road, at least with a good easterly breeze.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Joplay.... Im with you MEN use sticks.
then your rig is almost imposable to steal cause almost all folks under 30 can't work the stick.
Sometimes if your going to work, like tow a trailer, its better to have ample power to do the job, better than ringing the 4cy out to the max...
just my .02
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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kev wrote:
We need to go diving this year...just saying...Maybe climb too!
oddly we made that happen. Twice. Err... the diving part. Climbing... m'eh... not so much.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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I have a 2002 Taco TRD V6 with the 5 speed and I will always drive a manual transmission....especially in the mountains. I rarely use the brakes (relatively speaking) when driving in the mountains.
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jopay
climber
so.il
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I was in a Toyota dealership speaking with the service guy and a mechanic motioned to him, who said excuse me I have to back your truck out because the mechanic can't drive a stick, I said your kidding right, he said no many new mechanics can't drive a stick. Now we have cars that parallel park for you and talk of self driving cars. Wow, I kinda feel sorry for folks who never rowed the gears behind a 300hp small block Chevy, you know the verse "I get rubber in all four gears". There is an art to driving and I sense we are losing it, my brother taught me to drive on snowy parking lots, practicing skid control, and spinning figure eights, how to shift without the clutch, and how to push start a vehicle with a dead battery, which is one more advantage to driving a manual.Oh and one more thing, my generation had a name for automatics they were call "slush boxes".
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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In the past the manuals were usually much more reliable and versatile than the automatics.
I'm not at all convinced about the reliability of modern automatics. I'm sure some will be very reliable and I know some are not. However having driven some of the newer automatics I am very impressed with the computer controlled fuel/power/shift management. Rented an Impala which had 300hp and still got 25mpg with me leadfooting around town for a couple days.
Last time I had a car with 300hp+ I was lucky to get 8mpg ..
one thing I am not at all impressed with yet is anti-lock brakes. So far I haven't driven any on dirt or snow that can compete with a good driver for breaking. I disable my anti-lock on my current vehicle when it snows because it is terrible.
Anyone here who likes to drive on snow and ice actually found an antilock system that was any good?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I've been a stick-shift guy all my life. Sport cars, trucks, you name it. In the VW's it was really cool to shift gears without using the clutch. And the biggie is being able to start the car with a dead battery (but if the car runs on an alternator - they all do now - and the batt. is stone cold dead it won't roll start anyway.)
That said, I have an '09 Tacoma 4 door cab 6ft bed now (2WD.) Not available with a standard tranny. It is no "slushpump." Also has traction control which uses the brakes in a skid. I've "tested" it a few times, it activates the brakes individually in a turning skid and seems to get it just right. Of course there's a button on the dash to disable the system. The other button locks the rear diff. which has saved me a long walk more than once. No experience in serious snow.
Reliable? This truck is great. Just turned 100K with nothing but oil changes and one set of plugs. Not even brakes yet, drives like new. The auto even gets downshifts right a lot of the time, going downhill, foot off the gas, touch the brakes and down it goes. Not a stick but passable.
I have a bud who's deep into 4WD comps etc. Prefers automatics. Tells me most do these days. Nudging it over obstacles etc. is much smoother and controlled than with a stick, and no clutch to fry.
Odd though that the techs can't drive...
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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does anyone know what the ground clearance on a stock Tacoma is? amazingly I can't find this info
by comparison, an Outback has, I believe 8.7" of clearance. I presume the tacoma has perhaps additional clearance
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John M
climber
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http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2013-Toyota-Tacoma/specs/
this site says 9.3 for a 2013. Which year are you looking at?
Remember.. that is the lowest point. The advantage of a tacoma isn't just the height of the lowest point. It is also frame height and side body height, which makes a difference in going over things such as berms, as the lowest points are inline with the wheels, so the tires lift that point over obstacles, but then if your frame is low or you side rails or body is low, then you can high center. So it is more then just the lowest point.
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