Discussion Topic |
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 6, 2014 - 01:01am PT
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Lots of fun to be had in the canyon, if you should ever get the chance, go down in there. I'm posting a few shots in hopes that others might want to share there adventures in the canyon, with a story or pics.
The first time i went in i was just a 21 year old kid riding my motorcycle cross country solo from new york. i was debating hard on the extra riding to go up to the park for the day, to look down into the canyon.
Met some cool people at the rim overlook, talked me into hiking down in. Ended up spending a month hiking around.
Many years latter i was lucky enough to go back down, in a kayak. here's a few shots
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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That looks like one of those dories from the 50's. Hard to believe it hasn't been flushed out by
one of the floods.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I have done about 100 miles in the canyon this winter, have just been doing the main trails on the south side. Next trip will be some summits on the easier buttes, 3rd and 4th class or easy 5th. Was just doing trips to get in some sort of shape over the winter, but fell in love with the canyon, unlimited possibilities out there.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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"Ended up spending a month hiking around"
You lucky dog,Dan.
I was there in the late 80"s for a week of hiking.
Still simmers in the mind.
Always wanted to get back and paddle there.
Great pics,you also bravecowboy.
Still paddle? Think of going back?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Not me in the 'yak, wilbeer. I just got an invite to leave in ten days....thinking about continuing non-employment and going back for more. The place is really addictive, especially if you are the oarsman, but mostly if you can GTFO the river corridor and its most touron-impacted areas.
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mhay
climber
Bishop, CA
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No photos right at hand, but I rowed this in November/December of 2000. We saw only one other boat the entire trip. A solo guy in a cataraft. It felt like we were the only people in the entire canyon. Even Phantom Ranch was uncrowded that time of year. Trip of a lifetime. Losing a job to do that trip might just be worth it.
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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when we had the group meeting at the start of the run, i remember beening told i was to run the rapids first, as i was the saftey kayak, and then eddy out as soon as possible and make sure everyone was still in there boats.
i remember shaking my head yes, but thinking holy shitdogs, am i really going to be going down first, scouting on the fly. This was my first big water adventure, and i was getting pushed around by the big water. I was on a freight train of power and had to focus on looking much farther ahead to make the call on which hazards to avoid, and which side of the river i wanted to be on.
I'd run the rapid, eddy out an grab my camera. Heres a few shots.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Yes a very special place.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Amazing stuff.
bravecowboy, what's the story behind that last pic? Curious because I wore a pink frilly shirt of Kim Carrigan's as we rapped off of an early ascent of Black Rose, or Black Primo, whatever. I was cold and he had the only extra shirt. I've never forgotten that damn shirt!
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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last night on a rivertrip in the Canyon, things get a little blurred around the edges, amirite? or should I say lacey-frilled around the edges?
the costumery and pageantry of that night were topped only by the sandstorm and the pall of CO bourbon cast into my skull the next AM. I think I woke up wearing a pair of metallic gold capris and a thick coat of quartz grains.
Black Primo, huh? Do tell, if you would, Bruce?
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Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
ColoRADo
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I did Rim to Rim to Rim a few weeks ago. It was my first time in the big ditch. Its impressive! All of it.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Damn Beatrix! The rim-to-rim is on my list in the next year or so. Just pulled the 38 mile Knowles-Mee Canyon loop and starting to think about the next step in prep for the Big Ditch. Any insights or pitfalls that you might share with a budding rim-to-rim runner?
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
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wilbeer, havnt been in the kayak for awhile except to teach some youngsters how to roll. i rowed an 18 footer down the grand last time
here's a few of me from that first trip, along with my buddy mikey
bravecowboy, i know what you mean about those last nights and wild times. after lava falls parties, can it get any better?
wow beatrix! rim to rim to rim. how long did that take you to accomplish?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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mcd, your pics are stunning! your boy Mike C1'ing Lava is baddddddddddd!
Last time I passed thru Lava it started pouring cold rain and we had some purty beat up folks. I was (as always) low on beers. Then I hear the brrrrrrrrr-motor of an S-Rig and who should pass by but the legendary MN-Moabite Al with a load of tequila and shitty Lites. He tossed 'em ashore, the bottles went 'round, and spirits lifted (punzies!).... Long Live Al!
The magic of the place is rooted both in the solo discoveries it affords and the serendipity of good, solid people at the right moments.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Thank you for reminding me that I need to make this happen!
And is that guy paddling a ww canoe? Sick!!
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Here's a couple spots on the N Rim off the beaten path-
Toroweap Pt is at the far west edge of what used to be the Nat'l Monument. Easiest access is to head south from Colorado City – certainly a remarkable place in its own right, particularly on Sundays. 60 miles of well graded (except for the last mile or 2) dirt road leads to the Big Jumpoff, which is to say that you can drive right to the brink of the Inner Gorge. About a dozen “primitive” sites with no Fee that I recall. Used to be a lot cooler before the surrounding area became a designated WSA, and they barricaded the jeep trail that meandered all over the Tonto Bench.
Pt. Sublime has to be the most, well, sublime scene on the N Rim. There are only a couple of camping spots, 1st come, 1st serve. The NPS rangerette was very kind to let me know that the thing to do, if you've got to hang for a little while before you can camp out at the Pt, is to cross over into the adjacent USFS lands, where there is ample at-large camping, right on the Rim.
Based on George Steck's excellent guidebook to off-trail Canyon descents, found my way down through the Toroweap Formation (the cap rock, whose westerly terminus is per the above) to Flint Col, which is between Pt Sublime, and Sagittarius Ridge. Some of the most technical and difficult bushwhacking I've ever encountered, to say nothing of the routefinding necessary.
There used to be a VHS called “Canyon Dreams,” or something like that; must be DVDs around; Tangerine Dream soundtrack. That's the closest I'll get to the River itself – TFPU all the action pics!
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Just got back from a Bass to Boucher hike a couple weeks ago but was too lazy to post anything until now. I've been getting in a trip or so a year since '83 and the irony is that of all the hikes I've done in that time (with the same handful of friends) this last one is probably the only one I wouldn't do again. Too much Tonto platform and not enough river. The lure for us is always a beach, capping off all the rest of what's been said in this thread. Stay off the Bright Angel and Kaibab and also skip Hermit Creek (as a river campsite) and you're almost guaranteed a beach all to yourself--very, very few people ever hike to and camp on the river via every other "non-maintained" route from either rim. You work for it a little, but the pay off is unbelievable solitude and beauty, great trout fishing, river-chilled beers, and--honestly unless you're incredibly unlucky-- the only people you'll see are the occasional rafters floating by.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Cool hike Festus, but did you really carry BEER all that way?!
So what's your favorite? Great Thumb is s'posedly a peach to traverse ;)
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Bravecowboy,
You have to carry beers down to the river, it's below 50 degrees so swimming isn't a huge consumer of time. Dump some food if you have to, ' cuz a cold beer on a secluded beach in GC that you earned, well, it's one of life's greatest pleasures. I've actually carried over half a case in my younger days, but always at least a couple now. The killer was I punctured a can of Old Chub Scotch Ale (which was inside my pack and soaked the bottom of it) two days before we got to the refrigerator. That hurt!
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Bravecowboy,
My favorite, if I had to pick one, is the Butte Fault (a.k.a. Horsethief) route, down the Nankoweap, then west (or southwest) along the fault, then across the river, and out. There is no trail along the fault, but it's mind-bending geology there, even by Grand Canyon standards. We hauled an inflatable raft the whole way, for the crossing (at Lava Creek, not to be confused with Lava Falls) to the south side, about five miles upriver from Tanner, then we hiked out the Tanner.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Dan,that looks like a lot of Hair in the ditch,great pics.Festus as well.
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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yes wilbeer, always an eye opener. festus thanks so much for all the great beta and terrific pics. have any more?
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Dan, you really shouldn't encourage me, but...
The first two pics are of Scylla Butte, which you hike around as you travel upriver on the Tonto. First shot is from the west side, second one from the east side (just east of Slate Canyon). Has anyone ever climbed this? It's sheer on all sides but looks a little, er, crumbly. It would be an awesome inner canyon plateau to be sitting atop though.
EDIT: Dan, your photos are great as well...especially for someone who has never done the river trip through the canyon (on my list and then some, when my kids are old enough). Funny thing is that hiking to the river and back from the rim and running the river through the entire canyon are two totally different experiences. One gives you a cross section (north to south or vice versa) view/experience of the canyon, and the other takes you all the way down/through the spine or central nervous system of the place, on the creator itself (the river). I can't imagine doing one without the other, so I've clearly got a river trip to do, though the pay-off they have in common is those incredible days and nights on a hard-earned, indescribably unique and often hauntingly beautiful beach.
The pic below is actually from a trip two and half years ago to Boucher Beach, where we camped upstream from the creek. It looks the same now, but downstream from the creek (where we camped this time) another 50 or so yards of prime beach has been added to what was there last time. But as you river runners know better than I, beaches can change a lot down there. First time I was on Boucher Beach there really wasn't one, just some little, level sand platforms in the rocks about ten feet above river level. They were great campsites but it looked nothing like it does now. Another benefit, seems to me, of hiking and river trips, it's never exactly the same beaches, rapids or inner-canyon shoreline from one trip to the next.
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Okay, okay, I'm done! Honest! (for this trip anyway)
Steve
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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That's funny!! Hey, it looks like the gondola to the confluence is dead? I'm on the "Save the Confluence" email list thanks to you. I knew nothing about that possibility until the thread here on ST. Sounds to me like nobody came up with any real money hence no bribes, er, consultation fees, for tribe brass.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Haven't seen much in the news lately, Steve, hopefully that idea is done.
Albert
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Albert, I'm hoping too. I don't know why they don't just give the tribes an acre or two next to Tusayan and let 'em build a goddam casino there. Tusayan is already a complete sh#thole but it's miles back from the rim and, honestly, there isn't anything you could do to make it less of a sh#thole save the nuclear option. So what the hell, bring me a free cocktail and I'll drop a twenty on some rigged, quasi-version of blackjack on my way home. Heck, it cost me twenty just to cross 37 yards of Hualapai land on my way to the South Bass trailhead, with no cocktail.
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2014 - 10:08pm PT
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festus, you really know your way around the canyon, thanks for all the excellent beta. how many hiking trips have you done down there? when i first went down with friends i met at the rim i think we were on the tonto for a bit and went to a place called cave of the domes, ever been there?. crazy fun spelunking. heres a shot of the traditional mudbath at the confluence of the little colorado
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Tradman, is that the overlook at Toroweap? What a shot!
Dan,
I've done over 40 rim to river backpack trips but that's over a period of 31 years (where the hell did the time go?!). Haven't been in Cave of Domes (caves kind of freak me out), but I once ("once" being the key word) walked about 100 yards into the mining tunnel near there (the one you hit as you drop off the neck of Horseshoe Mesa on the east side). We got to a T intersection and it was so dark I couldn't see my hand an inch from my nose with the flashlight off. Turned the light back on in a hurry and got the heck out of there. Except for North Bass, and the Bright Angel/Kaibab central corridor stuff (too crowded if solitude is part of what you're after) I've done all the rim-to-river trails the backcountry office lists as non-maintained, along with Royal Arch route, Escalante, Beamer to the confluence, and the aforementioned Horsethief route, but that still leaves a lifetime of possibilities--especially at our current one trip a year pace. Plus there's hundreds and hundreds of miles of stuff that's way beyond my pay grade down there. Much as I love reading George Steck's Canyon Loop Hikes books (highly recommended) most of those routes, at least in their entirety, are far harder than anything I've done.
Since I'm a backpacker but not much (if any) of a climber, I love quoting Allen Steck's forward (George is his brother) from those Loop Hikes books to my climbing brother. Can't remember the exact quote, but the gist of it is that doing a canyon loop hike with his brother is the hardest thing he's ever done.
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Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
ColoRADo
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I didn't run rim to rim to rim but I did pass some ultra runners on the uphill. Our total hiking time was about 22 hours. We stopped and took long naps, which are not factored into the time. I really don't have any advice. We went light and fast and expected to be uncomfortable. Make sure you have enough food for the way out. Keep a positive attitude and have really strong legs. :-)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Yup. Made it all the way back there in a rental car:)
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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That is a great shot,tradman.+++
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Thanks, it was a special place on a special trip.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:10am PT
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2019 permit winnah!!!! ahhhhh!!!! shit!!!! hooray!??
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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I really wish that I had made it down there on an extended trip. Seems like a magical place.
More pictures please.. for those of us who didn't get to see very much of it.
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Dan McDevitt
Social climber
tioga cliff or fifi buttress
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Feb 23, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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good job on the permit B.C.!!!
Its been awhile but i think this one is Deer Cr. Falls. Mayfield and crew.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 23, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
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thanks for the stokeitude McD!
little needle pricks of falling water under that pourover at DC. must be a rather exciting rap!
edit:
vvv nope, river right. vvv
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 24, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
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Yeah, gotta get back to Toroweap. Visit John Riffy's grave and pull a little JB.
What a place.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 24, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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still cracking up at the thought of tradman out Toroweap in a rental
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 24, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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hey there say, mcd... thank you all so much for sharing all this!!!
neat stuff!!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 24, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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what'd you think of the potential in the fluted schist for some dws, spazzer?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 24, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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some fine scrambling for sure
made it back down all 'lone in time for chili with more wine.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 26, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
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You kidding? One of the best off road machines in the world is a rental car. Its amazing where those things can go.
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Dan McDevitt
Social climber
tioga cliff or fifi buttress
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Feb 27, 2018 - 11:33am PT
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Great shots guys!!!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega
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Feb 27, 2018 - 11:58am PT
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Great thread. I've been blessed to be able to run some photography trips down the canyon over the past few years and thought I'd share a couple pics.
I've got one open seat for our up coming trip in May.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Yes, thanks for the share, Jerry. Magnificent spread!
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Inner City
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Grand Canyon, wow, what an awesome and endlessly big place. I've not spent any time there, but would love a good backpacking recommendation that involves some nice off-trail or primitive trail hiking...??
I've done a fair amount of canyon hiking and exploring in UT including technical stuff, but non in GC. Should I pick up Rudow's book (or is it Todd Martin's?) and pick, or does somebody have a great idea? Love to hike down to the bottom and back out on a non-standard, classic route.
I am hoping to be there in the second week of May..seems like there are too many options...
My email address here does not work but could provide if prompted...
Dave
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dave - I love the UPS Route for a short trip, day in, day out to the river. For longer (5-7 days depending on where you finish) and a full dose of the canyon the Escalante route is pretty much a trail now, but is rated one of the best backpacks in America. I did it in 6 days from Tanner to South Kaibab and only saw humans on day one, day six and when I camped below Horseshoe mesa.
Todds book is good, but the internet has 90% of the info. The Grand Canyon Backpackers Assoc listserv is a great resource, Todd and Rich both participate along with many other seasoned experts.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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The rental. had it rained we would still be out there ;)
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Inner City
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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J Beck,
Thanks for the information on Escalante route..looks great.
Am thrilled to finally spend some time in the big Kahuna...
Dave
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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bump for ditch pix
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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unorthodox canyon crossings, the bike is cool.
The guys that made the movie Unbranded rode broken mustangs through the canyon on their ride from Mexico to Canada, with permission I presume. The North Kaibab gets pretty serious in spots, I would not want to be perched on a skittish free spirited horse in some spots.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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One word; mules.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 15, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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N Kaibab on a horse? A mouse runs out and yer history!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 15, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
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would not worry about a mouse but a snake would certainly get a horses attention.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 13, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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Bump for that old man ribbah, he jes keep rollin' on.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 13, 2018 - 08:15pm PT
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That would be wild to be back there on a bike once you get past the carrying it part!
OK, I'll go through my pics from earlier this year and find some nice ones...
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 13, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
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Wifey and I made our first trip below the rim earlier this year (Feb), down Kaibab and up Bright Angel. Left Los Angeles ~ 9 or 10pm Friday night because of a work dinner, maybe later. After a brief roadside bivvy, we reached the overnight permit office at south rim when they had just closed for lunch Saturday! Doh! Burned an hour, burned some more time figuring out the shuttles, then hiking by 2-3pm. Good night of sleep in our sleeping bags and tent at Phantom Ranch campground. Nice hike out in the shade the entire time, and home Sunday night. Great introduction!
After a night camping at Phantom Ranch...
There must be some awesome established moderate lines near the rim here, not too far from the trailhead:
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 13, 2018 - 11:16pm PT
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Let me know when you are doing a trip, I am always game. You planning a pack raft segment? I am about to pull the trigger on buying one.
There must be some awesome established moderate lines near the rim here, not too far from the trailhead:
yes there is, there are topos on the internet, I have them somewhere.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 14, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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Hi Jon, definitely on the pack rafts! That was a highlight of the trip :)
Open to other itineraries, but it would nice to complete the original itinerary plus a little bit:
 day 1 - 150 Mile (SOB), river crossing to Matkat Hotel;
day 2 - explore lower Matkatamiba, climb Mount Akaba (supposedly class 4), drop gear at head of Panameta Canyon, descend Panameta, back up the head of Matkatamiba and around the plateau to camp.
day 3 - carry over Sinyala Fault, down Olo Canyon, raft 2 miles back to Matkat Hotel. If feeling spunky, keep heading down river and start hike out 150 mile
day 4 raft >2 miles to the crossing point just upstream of 150 mile, then hump it out back to car, sleep at trailhead
Don't want to count on getting water at the spring near head of 150 mile canyon. We didn't get any there.
I'm doing more consistent exercise these days, legs getting much stronger (but I still have toothpick legs compared to Mark). And I'll bring oodles of electrolytes and defer to Mark's judgement on where to stash bags this time!
Edit: going bigger with a carry-over from Olo to Keyhole Natural Bridge and down river from 140 mile canyon, and down by rafts with a portage around Kanab rapids, would get more river time. Whispering Falls via the sneak route might be a good add-on adventure. I can plan up to a week for this adventure, but haven't chatted with Mark yet about specific goals and constraints.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Guido and I are leaving today for a 3 week float down the the Grand Canyon (my 9th trip). We should have lots to report once we get back late this month!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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3 weeks to soak it all in! I'm jealous! Get lost in photo-happy languor and share it with us.
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2019 - 10:59am PT
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Awesome!!! Thanks so much for all the great shots guys!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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You folks have a sickness. Me too, ha!
I am envious, Boo-dawg! Have fun!
EDIT to remove boat seller query, as I've got my project boat now!
Also, anyone free for an April 14 2019 launch? I have a friend of a friend that needs a couple QBOs....
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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^^thebravecowboy
I have a 16ft Avon Pro bucket boat that I'd love to pass on. Price we can discuss.
Right now I also have a 14ft Avon Adventurer but my nephew has first dibs on it.
Thing is no one is interested in bucket boats anymore, but for those that know, they're great if you don't mind a bit of bailing. And, they really come into their own on those lazy SWer rivers such as you mentioned.
I've taken it down the Canyon a couple time not to mention years of trips all over the west. I bought it back in the early 80's from Oars (who I was doing some work for BITD).
It still is in great shape. a few patches, but I still use it every summer.
Problem is I'm currently in India and will not be back in Truckee Ca where the boat is (probably buried in the storage shed under a ton of snow) until the first week of June. Bet that is too far away for you...
But if this sounds like what you have in mind drop me a note; ck cowpoke @ yahoo. com (no spaces) and we can chat.
I probably can throw in some other gear too.
FYI I have 2 SBer's one brand new that I haven't even rowed yet so the others need to find good homes.
I love that Pro and would love to see her continue for many more years.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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emailed you, DD.
yep, too far out, for sure. But I really dig your sharing your knowledge. I am kinda thinking about it...EDIT to remove angsty jargony question that DD handily addressed before i go waltzing off like a lamb to slaughter, cash in hand, to buy some crappy old cataraft (thanks Delhi!)
holy migraine! 300 miles distant and lovely tho she be, I can feel my wife fuming from across the Great Divide, I feel like I am getting closer and closer to cooking my proverbial lobster vis-a-vis my wife's preferences....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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You river rats are fekin NUTS!
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Got your note tbc.
Writing you back with I hope some info to consider.
cheers
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Hey Boo and Guido!
Have a Grand time down there.
For those of us that have spent time there we know what a special thing that is.
I look forward to some photos!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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not my photo, not my trip. but an old friend had a turkey day down there recent-like.
And Tradman, I can tell you that 1) you'd abso love the stillness, the peace of the quietest times down there, and 2) deep down the cukey-cool, methodical ice climber in you would actually really dig the dynamism and quick-action in the rough stuff.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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right in the guts!
nice one DD! that ass-flung drag bag though, ha!
I still haven't hit that one centerline....which, honestly, is inexcusable.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Glad you noticed that drag bag:-)
I once took my oar boat through Hermit then hiked back up, hitched a ride with our paddle boat and jumped off the bow right into the tongue...13 killer standing waves in a row and I was sailing up and over (and through) them.
River was running about 25,000 cfs at the time. Those waves were pretty big.
Such a sweet spot!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Now that is some good clean fun, swimming Hermit, sequenced breathing and all. The inevitable S rim shore dwellers probably just aghast. Such a contrast to Hance.
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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My son and I had the good fortune of doing a 280 mile 28 day trip -Lee’s Ferry to Pierce.
This was a David Greenwood expedition. You Californians may know David- he’s the BLM river ranger on the Merced. Flawless planning and execution on David’s part. I rowed an 18’ rig and my son ended up running every named rapid on his river board.
This was days after my son graduated high school a semester early. He finished classes on a Friday, I had him on a plane to Phoenix and then Page on Saturday, and we launched on Sunday. I apologize straight up for all the parental gushing but this was the best experience ever that my son and I have shared -it changed our relationship and it changed his life. I encourage everyone - if you get invited don’t turn down a chance to do a private float on the Grand.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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You just helped someone,me.
Cheers telemon.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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...but this was the best experience ever that my son and I have shared -it changed our relationship and it changed his life. The Grand has a way of doing that. Good for you guys!
I encourage everyone - if you get invited don’t turn down a chance to do a private float on the Grand.
I would second that, up to point.
Mrs. Dog and I once were invited on an (only) 8 person trip. It was the summer after our first trip down there years ago which was such an amazing adventure that we jumped at the chance. They needed someone to row a baggage boat so we signed up and were in great spirits.
Long story short...21 days with a couple of whack jobs soured me to "just jump on it if you get a chance" type of thinking.
I know this isn't what you had in mind and I concur that a trip down the Grand is a lifetime experience. All I'm saying is you better know who you're going with. You can't really leave once you've committed downstream:-)
I've since done many more and ALL OF THEM were wonderful.
But, just sayin...
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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I agree with you 100% Delhi- the people in your group make or break the experience.
Thats nice of you to say Wilbeer. You're photos of the ADK's keeps me psyched on that country
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Telemon,that’s what makes this place great,sharing lives.
Good too see you getting your son into the outdoor lifestyle.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Most important thing is to make sure you don't run out of refreshments...
View looking into the Devil's Corkscrew and Pre-Cambrian Vishnu schist on the Bright Angle trail.
Pre-Cambrian Zoroaster pink granite on the right.
Mg-laden spring water of Havasu Creek...~river mile 157
Quaternary basalt flowing off the Uinkaret Plateau down into the Grand Canyon...~river mile 175
Vulcan's Anvil...~river mile 178 erosional remnant of ~550,000 year old basalt lava dam.
Lava Falls...
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Mar 12, 2019 - 06:57am PT
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Geez, Tuolumne Tradster, you act like that place is some kinda geologic wonderland or something. Thanks for sharing...maybe kick up some more of those imageries to get the collective juices flowing? :-)
So, ST-rats and GC addicts, who's got the experience, the free time and $ to fill in my lead boater spot for my 8/19 GC small private oar trip launch ? This will be my fourth trip down, and my buddy's last minute washout as lead boater is kinda a bummer for me... I have a few strong cards up my sleeve, but I'd like to see what interest/availability is here for that slot. I will not be filling the spot with any old oar boater, gotta have GC oarsperson 'sperience (recent, ideally)....and it is a fully outfitted Ceiba trip, a "painless private" with no full groovers to clean out on the tail end (heh), etc., so maybe not the cheapest way to do it, but certainly the least work/prep and minimal time commitment before/after the actual goodness of the GC.
Donini? CMac? Bueller?
Let me know here and I can fill in the details in private.
EDIT: Thanks Norm, you're right. It's been six years since I've been down there, and yeah, Forster it is.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Mar 12, 2019 - 07:43am PT
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Nice shot at Forster (oops)! Also like the understated 'large hole here' notification..
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Mar 12, 2019 - 03:41pm PT
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It’s Forster not Foster. August is hot! But the river is cold. Keep your beer in the river. And the bottom of the boat down.
It is a special place, my wife has been a guide there for 42 years. 200 trips rowing. I worked part time for 25 years with a bit less than 50 trips rowing. Eventually we will do a small private, but it’s a lot of work and we have gotten used to a paycheck at the end. :)
Have fun, and yes everyone that appreciates the wild should experience it at least once.it is live changing for many.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 12, 2019 - 04:05pm PT
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Damn,BC ,if I was an oarsperson, I would consider that, I am going to be in the corners in late August, San Juan HTH biking.
Just a kayaker.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Mar 12, 2019 - 10:08pm PT
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Sure wish I could make that trip tbc
But I'll be back in India by then.
Just a kayaker. Well, can you fly kites?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Mar 12, 2019 - 10:09pm PT
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Dang, DD, I was trolling for you, obviously. India sounds like a kinda cool little place though too. :-)
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Mar 13, 2019 - 12:31am PT
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Up to 9 different rivers here now. If I stay long enough well...I can do a few more:-)
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 15, 2019 - 08:47pm PT
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I was inspired to scan some fun photos from my 1999 16-day Grand Canyon trip. I signed on with a group of strangers to run a gear boat & took my well-tested 17' Aire Cataraft.
I made some lifetime friends & met some people I'll be happy to never see again, but I kept the right side up & had some fun, despite a dark premonition just before the trip.
In the Late 1960’s & early 1970’s I was a college student at U of Idaho, and was heavily & happily involved in rock climbing.
Spring of 1970: I started having dark dreams & forebodings of death. I was too young to want to think about the meaning of the dreams & thoughts, but I could only relate them to my climbing.
I started being very, very careful while climbing.
The dark feelings of impending death continued.
I seriously considered giving up climbing, and still: the feelings of impending death continued.
May of 1970: my 52 year old father suddenly died of a heart attack.
After a period of grief, my feelings of impending doom & foreboding of death went away.
I did not experience a similar foreboding thought until 1999. I had “hooked-up” with a group of Idahoans for a shared 16-day adventure running the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon.
I was a very experienced white-water boater and I would be piloting my own raft as a gear boat for a company of strangers. Heidi chose to stay home and manage our business.
Just before the trip: the death premonition I had experienced in 1970 came back to me very-strongly.
I analyzed the likely causes for my dark premonition, and could only come up with the impending demise of my 87 year old mother and/or my 50 year old self.
Despite my acute feelings of “impending demise” I “manned-up” and did the river trip.
It was a great trip, and I made some wonderful new friends ------and never had to take a “survival-swim.”
Unfortunately the feelings persisted, and I was very careful. It just seemed wrong to take extra chances, other than those you have to take when rowing the Grand Canyon.
At the end of the trip: the feeling of: ”impending doom” vanished.
My backside & my overloaded cataraft. I never turned extra gear away when folks didn't have room to stow it & that helped make friends.
Me eating a wave in Upset Rapid.
Crystal was the first rapid that scared me, but I was just able to go just right of the hole. This boat didn't & stuck for a while, then the oarsman washed out, but happily another passenger grabbed the oars & guided them out of hell.
Washing machine time.
The boat finally washes out of the hole.
At Phantom Ranch, my boat & I wrote a postcard home to Heidi.
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mcd
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2019 - 09:01pm PT
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Wow!!! Such great stories and pics.
thanks so much guys!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Mar 16, 2019 - 07:18am PT
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Dang, this thread is so cool! Now I know that I need to float that river. I’m unemployed right now, anyone putting in soon and need another person? I’m strong, can row my ass off. Also, I’ve been to Burning Man a few times. I’m good with costumes.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Mar 16, 2019 - 10:00am PT
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Nice post, Fritz. Glad you made it through okay. I've also had those forebodings on some trips... you have to decide if they are strong enough to hold you back but generally what happens (if you do go ahead) is that they fade amidst the fun...
I first rowed the GC in 1997 on about 20k continuous. What was the water like on your trip?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 16, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
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Thanks folks for the positive comments. Bobinc! I recall it was mostly in the 20,000 cfs range.
I did not get any decent photos of Granite, but I did receive a very-good scare in it. We kept catching up with another private party, with a very-experienced leader. That is one of their rafts in the hole at Crystal. At Granite, we got to the scout, just as they were launching & our somewhat dysfunctional trip leader yelled "just follow them!"
We launched in a gaggle & when I got to the far side of the river, where the rapid runs next to a cliff, things looked ugly, but possible. As I started down a tongue into the rapid, the tongue about 100 feet ahead of me suddenly collapsed & became a giant raft-eating hole. About 20' from the hole, the tongue suddenly formed again & I rode it between a huge hole on either side of me, in a clean run.
All our rafts made it through Granite, but one got too far right at the bottom & stuck in "The Forever Hole," a large eddy that is very difficult to break out of. After a few dozen circles around the eddy, the raft finally was able to break out.
Here's a photo I borrowed from the internet that shows a less-gripping run of Granite. https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1360&bih=539&ei=gDyNXIrEJeuQ0gLikYCQAg&q=granite+rapids+grand+canyon&oq=Granite+rapid&gs_l=img.1.2.0l4j0i24l2.3492.7319..11391...0.0..0.150.1424.5j8......0....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..0i30j0i8i30.toM4-ThOedk#imgrc=OSqqSJriozSrtM:&spf=1552759946650
Beau, age 14, learning to row while I kind of relax.
Fritz at left & an up-canyon view.
Way back upstream, the Little Colorado was running blue from minerals in its water. That is a rare happening, since normally upstream flows turn it milky.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Mar 16, 2019 - 02:01pm PT
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Granite is always intimidating. On our first trip, I was the first boat through. I looked over to the shore to my crew as I was getting closer, and I noticed one boatman indicating I should go further left, while another one, in front of the first one, was indicating further right! My line must have been okay because I made it right side up. You do really have to get very far right at the top then keep your momentum going through the big waves and avoid the suck from the right-side eddies.
I think Liz Hymans, long-time GC guide, was asked once about how often she felt she was in control in Granite. 'Never!' was the reply.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Mar 16, 2019 - 03:28pm PT
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The big named rapids get all the press but there are some sleepers down there. Tiger was has come in to it's own in the past decade. You don't see it coming but it's very squirrelly and can give you a good wake up call early in the trip. Waltenburg is another that always had my respect. Not technical but it can be huge at the right level. Upset, keep your angle pointing left and keep pushing. Miss that hole. Quite often Dubendorf doesn't seem to go as planned. Over the table rock oops. Lots of boat loads tip out in Specter.
Down there its mostly about entry and angle.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 17, 2019 - 11:07am PT
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TT! Per your above post about debris flows, when we ran Lava Falls in early June 1999 at about 20,000 cfs, the Prospect Creek debris flow from 1995 was still in evidence. It had originally constricted the Colorado River by approximately 50 percent.
However, since the other private group we followed through Crystal & Granite scouted & ran Lava Falls from the left side, we ended up going that way after first scouting Lava from the upper right side.
The length of Lava Falls is compressed in the following photos. The rapid goes for a long ways.
For some reason, one of the other group's boats decided to ferry across the river & run Lava on the right. They screwed-up badly & went right over the huge ledge hole at top center. Happily, after flipping, they washed out of the hole fairly quickly & their boat soon followed.
Their other boats had clean big water runs down the left side of Lava.
We really didn't like the looks of the right-side runs, so we ferried to the left-side & all our boats got through, with only one untoward incident.
My passenger was a young woman who had guided on the Grand for a summer & she had agreed to row her somewhat difficult father & his friends down the canyon. They had a falling out & she was now riding in other rafts & I appreciated her experience & thoughts on rowing Lava.
Since I had more maneuverability than the other rafts & we both were scared of the center ledge hole, I started a little more left & had shallow water from the Prospect Creek debris flow, & occasional rocks to dodge for a little while. Then I hit faster & deeper water with big standing waves & picked up a lot of speed. I thought we had a clean run!
Suddenly I flew over a sharp fang of rock that had hidden in the standing waves & it went right under my feet without touching the frame or pontoons.
The raft dropped about 4' into the hole below it & was stopped dead by the re-circulating wave. The rear of the raft backed up to where it was almost touching the fang & the washing machine action started. I had lost control of both oars by that time & I grabbed the edge of my seat to hang on.
After a few seconds of shaking, I saw my right oar coming back at me & as the grip presented itself, I grabbed on. A second later, the same thing happened with my left oar, & I was able to get a good push with both oars, & we washed out of the hole upright.
After we made it down to tequilla beach, I noticed the 7 gallon water container that had been lashed on top of the frame at the right front side, was now under the frame, although that wasn't possible. The raft frame was also badly bent, but still worked ok. I had the adrenaline shakes for the rest of the day.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Mar 17, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
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That's a great story Fritz. My more experienced friend (guy with blue shirt on the left) rowed Lava not me, but he suffered a similar fate to what you describe. We contemplated the left side but decided to take our chances on the right. The bottom dropped out of the back end in that giant hole and he was swimming when I realized I was in the boat alone. I helped hem get back in the boat as we were doing 360s while bobbing up and down on the waves. Anyway, here we are celebrating at Tequila beach after the swim...
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