Discussion Topic |
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RattyJ
Trad climber
Pine Grove
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 30, 2014 - 01:23am PT
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Just thought this was an interesting example of government doing what it does best.
Now I don't care what your political affiliation is, the end game is still the same. Your Liberty has already ended.
Government is not solution to our problem, government is the problem.
-Reagan-
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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Apr 30, 2014 - 01:50am PT
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Malaria was a problem, then government solved it for us.
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John M
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 02:12am PT
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I agree that building code needs to be reworked to be less oppressive.
but
since you quote ronald reagan as saying government is the the problem, who by the way increased the size of government, but ignoring that, ..
is there any form of government that you agree with? Should we go back to the wild wild west?
I will say this.. I like that guy in the video..
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 30, 2014 - 04:27am PT
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Reagan was a moron.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:24am PT
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Funny thing about representative government is that it represents the people who make it. Americans get mad about government because they don't like what they see in the mirror.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 30, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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High Desert, That is the quote of the day.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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+ for HighDesertDJ
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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We live in a world of citizen's united, so I'm not so sure about that hddj.
Hi fatty.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Apr 30, 2014 - 10:52am PT
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angry white men, so oppressed
give me a f*#king break
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 30, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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Government is not solution to our problem, government is the problem.
-Reagan-
and then the suckers voted me in to run the government I didn't believe in..even after I told em I was going to be the problem.
I mean seriously they hired a guy who told em the job was to cause problems. Who does that?
"Raygun" from the grave.
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"Government is the problem" is a childish statement of fools who cannot acknowledge the necessity of good government or begin to fathom what good government should look like.
Let alone hold it accountable to excellence.
It is a soundbite used by con-men to destroy proper governance and this nation for their own gain..swallowed by the koolaid drinking followers.
Don't get me wrong.. I tend conservative in many areas and can easily rip apart the demoncrats as well as the republicons. Sadly both parties are forced by the system we have allowed to serve other interests as The Warbler mentioned long before the peoples interests.
Your vote is a farce, the deck is stacked long before you even get to see it let alone vote on it. By way of the absurd practice of "campaign donation"
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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Anita nails it again.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 30, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
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Angry White Dudes? Haha, those angry white men have their own web site and Eustace is on it: http://angrywhitedude.com/2013/03/meet-eustace-conway-hes-got-troubles/
Eustace said: "“This is supposed to be the land of the free. Government is supposed to help people, protect their individual liberties and freedom — that’s not what’s happening here,” said Conway." He seems like a good guy to me, just from watching the show.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 30, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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Reagan doubled the national debt and raised taxes 10 times
who cares what he said or thought
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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I always wonder what I'm missing when I agree with HDDJ, but I think you're spot on this time.
John
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John M
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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--The guy makes some good points in the video.
--The quote does not represent what is in the video.
The quote is stupid since reagan grew the government. The man in the video on the other hand makes some good points. why does a living structure have to have piped in water? why does it have to have electricity.
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RattyJ
Trad climber
Pine Grove
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
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The quote wasn't meant to glorify anything regains dumb ass did or didn't do. It was a simple glass over statement meant to simplify and illustrate the basic point that too much regulation is never a good thing.
is there any form of government that you agree with?
Yes, states rights and local government. The federal government should have little to do with our every day lives.
Let me get this straight.... This guy doesn't want building codes?
That whole video flew right over you didn't it? Give it another run and this time "watch it"! I don't agree with a lot of the stuff you constantly spew, but I know you're not that dumb.
The Anti-Government rhetoric has been set in motion by the Libertarians/conservatives as a means to dismantle our government in the hopes of just what the guy is ranting about.
No regulations, all so he can have his selfish wish of it being cheaper to build.
Dr F. Take off the foil cap for a second and just watch the damn thing again. Nobody said anything about NO regulations. This guy was in compliance of all regulations but got shut down by pure bureaucracy and government over reach. I can't see how anyone would be for that, no matter what side of the isle you're on. Not everything is an extreme left and right issue.
John M gets it.
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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Apr 30, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
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Yeah, regulations sucks! Let's de-regulate our oversight for drinking water! Who needs police, firefighters, FAA, EPA, or education for that matter? Seems like the Reagan-ites weren't paying attention during their government paid education during high school anyway.
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John M
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
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. Nobody said anything about NO regulations.
cool your jets. The quote you posted says basically that. Thats what people were objecting to. Most of them probably didn't bother to watch the video simply because they figured it was another nut job. Thats why I posted that I liked what this guy said.
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RattyJ
Trad climber
Pine Grove
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2014 - 04:40pm PT
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Well, the quote doesn't basically say that in my mind and wasn't meant to be taken in such an extreme fashion.
Just goes to prove that liberals are just as bat sh#t crazy and over reactionary when it comes to anything perceived to come from the other side as the conservatives are. Just look at Dindolinos post. It's not hard to believe, rather hard to accept that there are a lot of people out there that are actually that stupid.
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Apr 30, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
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Yeah! Building codes SUCK, until you go to buy a house from some dip-shit that never pulled a permit and you find out that the wiring is jacked. . .
This dude is one of the few examples of people that build beyond the code, but for all those people that do home remodels and don't get an inspector to sign it off they are putting themselves, their families and their neighbors in jeopardy.
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:02pm PT
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my point is that there IS a place for government in our daily lives. People might not like all the rules that go with it, but since we all share the country together, we better abide to those rules as a society. When earthquakes, tornados etc strike, having buildings up to code would be nice. Even though this one guy wants to live by his own rules, (and he may be a great engineer) but even still there will be a thousand other jackass people that try to do the cheap thing and build their own shacks. But that will result in failures that will kill others. That is why we have building codes, and rules. The masses are asses!
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
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Although Libertarianism and self-sufficiency are in many ways admirable, the fact of the matter is If you crap in your yard and it washes down to mine we have a problem. That is in part what building codes are about, as well as safety and liability issues. The frontier mentality is pretty anachronistic in a world of over seven billion people.
That being said, my nearly forty years in the construction business also gives me a perspective on how capricious building codes can be. What was adequate two years ago suddenly is no longer up to a current re-written code. I've seen a lot of this over the years and much of it has added greatly to the cost of building and created whole new industries that now ensure that the codes are even more restrictive. Most recently the whole air-barrier, building envelope industry(my newest pet-peeve) has added steps, inspections and costs to projects that seem to offer negligible returns. I have no doubt that a lot of what drives changes in the codes are bureaucrats that need to justify their position, but I will have to say the buildings of today are much more structurally sound than some of the crap I was building when I first got in the trade. Anyway I did enjoy the video which has some very good points if one doesn't get too hung-up viewing it through some ideological lense.t
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Did you notice while the inspector was going on about how structurally sound his buildings were, you could see a post set on top of a single rock? Don't imagine that spreads the load out too well. You're right Bruce about a lot of home inspectors, while I've got to say that most of the building inspectors I've dealt with from the city building department are quite knowledgable and reasonable people.
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John M
climber
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I agree we need building codes. I believe sometimes they are nutty. I was interested in what the guy in the video said in relation to the cost of building today. Such as, Is electricity really necessary? I accept that one has to have a reliable and safe septic system for human waste but why is electricity necessary for a human habitat? I accept that if you are going to put in electricity, then you need to do it safely and codes help accomplish that, but why is it necessary? At least in that counties code? Is it required in most county codes.
Just interested. I'm not going to go out there and do something crazy like Bundy.
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John M
climber
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Bruce, what do you see as the "real" problem?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Whatever the fix, that solution will be the unsustainable problem within a couple decades. The government, corporations, gangs, unions, the clergy, immigrants, Wall street speculators, college regents, social programs, landlords, political parties, insurance companies...will all eventually become toxic cultures.
Is there a red reset button? That would be Utopia.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Malaria was a problem, then government solved it for us.
Bill Gates.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Fred Tomaselli is the best. I can't believe his brother hangs out with us low lifes.
So what's the problem here? More government over reach?
I have spent 53 spins around the sun, in many communities, states and countries.
The US government is by far the best governing body I've come across. Considering the scale of what they have to deal with, it's nothing short of miraculous.
Good ol' Abe the republican was right to give so much power to the fed.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Building codes are an excellent example of how government takes a mandate to 'look after' us
and turns it into a self-serving bureaucracy which loses all semblance of common sense. Like
'the people' are really served by making me get a permit to build a fence? And I have yet to
actually see an inspector climb a ladder onto a roof to inspect the nailing as he or she is
supposed to. It is all about job security and a nice cushy pension.
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Yeah Reilly I've seen a few drive-by inspections myself, but I have to say the quality of inspectors I've dealt with in the city Seattle is pretty high and most seem to be quite reasonable and competent people. I can't say that about some of the outlying areas. There are a few inspectors in Bellevue that are notorious power-freaks. I guess, like in anything, personalities can make a huge difference. Also most of the jobs I'm on rely on special inspectors for the bulk of inspections so the city isn't involved too much in the hands-on inspection process.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Those that can do.
Those that can't, but know how, become teachers.
Those that can't and don't know how, become inspectors.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Bruce, don't the exceptions prove the rule? I've met far more dickhead inspectors than decent sorts.
And I want to know why 'the people' pay for that crap. Seems to me the insurance industry
should foot the bill.
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Dickheads exist in all walks of life and being one is not a prerequisite to having any particular job. I've been on the project I'm on now for over two years and I've had a great relationship with the building inspectors and the special inspectors. The building envelope "consultants" and inspectors though seem like a superfluous new layer of nonsense. Maybe it's just the curmudgeon in me, but those guys really do seem to be winging it. None of those envelope inspectors seemed to be on the same page and it was difficult to ascertain what they wanted. I honestly believe they didn't know.
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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I think the inspectors role doesn't have to be adversarial. A good one realizes you are under scheduling pressures and will help facilitate your project in order to get it done properly. An inspector can still do his job while working with you. He's a public employee-you pay his salary. I'm not saying you've got to be buddies or anything. I'm just saying that I've dealt with enough screaming as#@&%es in this business(including myself )over the years that I've come to realize that a job can get done just fine without all of that.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 10, 2014 - 10:58am PT
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Most of it is about liability...The engineer gets sued if things go wrong so they over-engineer..The inspector insures that the bozos with the hammer and cigarettes assemble the components properly to protect the building department from homeowner lawsuits...There's an excess of monkeys and a shortage of bowling balls...
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