Elon Musk

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Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 18, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
"Blunt talking and blunt smoking" LOL

Yeah, whole lotta haters,..
ecdh

climber
the east
Sep 18, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
i had a peripheral interest in musk 5 years ago when he emerged in the popular press. not really different, just new to me. theres been a long line of white-knight techno saviours since the industrial revolution, who will save us all from ourselves - but its all been bullsh#t. the threats to life on planet earth and beyond wont be resolved by the ultra rich investing in techno-masturbation, weve already registered that.
maybe he is a do-gooder with great intentions and a genius perspective, but hes applying it all to the 1% whilst the 75% of the problem thats below the waterline - wont balance it out.

yes theres an argument that enlightening the 1% who run the majority of the planets resources has huge effect, but its unlikely to be by sending them on holidays.
we dont have the time to wait 30 years for space flight to trickle down to the common man the way jet flight did.

musk is an example of distraction by fantasy, like jobs and hughes before him. hard to other than cynical about him, especially as he shows himself to be a wanker as well.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Sep 20, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
Tesla has been trying to get a track car good enough to compete and not overheat (or start on fire). The model S still isnít there yet apparently, although the model 3 is showing signs of possibility.
Credit: tooth
couchmaster

climber
Sep 22, 2018 - 09:33am PT

Tesla Model 3 earns 5 star NHTSA crash rating. So far, every car Tesla has built has earned a five-star safety rating.

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-gets-five-star-crash-safety-rating-from-n-1829196052
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Sep 25, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
Poor little Elon, here come's Audi to eat your lunch. From https://seekingalpha.com/article/4208213-teslas-supercharger-moat-siege :

Audi has been making waves in the past couple weeks with the reveal of its fully electric e-tron. Audi sees the two-row, five-seat crossover SUV as a direct competitor to the current king of the EV space: Tesla (TSLA).

With a 250-mile range and starting price of $75,795 before the $7,500 tax credit, the Audi e-tron looks like it can make a stab at some of Teslaís buyers. The extensive Audi dealership, maintenance, and support network add further to a comparative advantage. And for a bit of tech flavor, Audi also announced its partnership with Amazon (AMZN) to sell and install its home charging systems as part of the e-commerce giantís ever-expanding presence in peoplesí homes and daily lives.

The e-tron is just the first of many Audi EVs in development. Indeed, the company has 20 EVs slated for launch through 2025. As the Audi e-tron enters the market in early 2019, it will be just the first of many Audi vehicles surging into the electric space.

Yet, with all the fanfare surrounding the Audi e-tron, another element of the companyís electrification strategy has gotten far less attention than it deserves. Specifically, Audi is moving full-steam ahead on building a charging network in collaboration with its parent company Volkswagen (OTCPK:VWAGY). It is a direct effort to threaten one of Teslaís oft-cited strategic advantages against new entrants to the EV space: The Tesla Supercharger network.

Without the Supercharger advantage, much of the narrative about Teslaís long-term structural advantages over the legacy automakers and other upstart EV companies falls apart. With a planned $2 billion investment in charging infrastructure, Audi will be the tip of the spear in the effort to excise one of Teslaís few special differentiators.

Sell sell sell.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:01am PT
So today Der Wunderkind was whining that Teslaís delivery problems are due to a lack of car
carrier trailers! Seriously? I donít hear GM, Ford, Toyota, or Nissan whining about that and
they need, what, 50 times as many? ITíS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YA!
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
Welcome to the car biz. did the big boys lease all the car carriers? Bad management - poor planning? I still would not short Tesla yet.
With all his problems he is the one & only one pushing the electric car along. He's making Audi & everyone else step up.

In fifty years how many of these things will be laying around in fields and or crashed and left behind someone's house, everywhere cars & trucks are left now. Highly toxic & leaking.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 26, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
Frumy: Welcome to the car biz. did the big boys lease all the car carriers?†

Hmmmm. Maybe, but I might doubt it.

It may not be a tradable commodity on an open exchange, but if supply and demand did not match regularly, then the industry would expand or contract structurally. Normally you'd see quick entrepreneurs find those open spaces and fill them.

If this sort of problem would happen often and in a costly way for auto producers, they'd take the function on in-house (vertical integration). (How much value are these auto carriers appropriating?)

Market economies are usually pretty good at finding pockets of profitability and competing them down to the cost of capital. That is, down to the level of minimal profitability. Entrepreneurs can be like wolves, searching for prey.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Sep 26, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
Don't forget the market forces of bloody minded ass holes who take it personally, when interlopers try to eat their lunch !
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
I'm not sure what to say.

How do you think cars get from OEM's to dealers.

Do you think its the same day in day out?

Do you think maybe the OEM's contract out a huge portion If not all their rail & truck transportation?
mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
This guy is melting down faster than bitcoin.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 27, 2018 - 08:35am PT
Frumy: Do you think maybe the OEM's contract out a huge portion If not all their rail & truck transportation?

They might well. It depends upon whether it pays them to have others do it for themóIF outsourcing makes economic sense. If it doesnít, theyíll find a way to do it themselves. They could establish strategic alliances (where both partners sink or swim together), joint ventures (creating other organizations together), or they could even fund new competitors who could serve them (like IKEA did in Eastern Europe long ago with manufacturers who had excess capacity or as Intel venture capital did with some of its more technologically advanced suppliers).

If a partner upstream or downstream is appropriating too much profit from an industry consistently, the industry will do something about it. In the airline industry, wildly fluctuating fuel prices became managed (lower risk) with futures and options contracts on the open exchange.

Other than the trailers (which I doubt are all that costly compared to the tractors and labor), I donít see highly specialized assets that would enable an industry (automobile transportation-delivery) to establish consistent defensible market positions and power. Itís likely a fragmented industry with no large dominating players. (Oligopolies are sure signs of market power.) All fragmented industries show minimal profitability equal to their risk factors; and they tend to be rather competitive.

Industries establish market power (and super-normal profitability) because they have highly specialized assets or skills that are difficult to build and imitate. Highly specialized assets *must be built or protected* rather than bought on the open market. Trucking wouldnít seem to satisfy those qualifications (from my reckoning). What would be the specialized assets (knowledge or tangible or intangible assets) or specialized skill sets?

Rail, for example, has highly specialized assets (rolling stock and rail networks), but the substitutes for rail are increasing (commercial trucking, air, digital delivery), and that has tended to depress the industry's profitability. Rail is competitive (look at pricing), and the industry has eked-out some success because it is a regulated duopoly, and the competitors have invested considerably in efficient scheduling and operations (specialization of assets).

Most people of my background believe that all sustainable superior competition comes from unique and highly harmonized sets of core competencies that create best-of-class performance. Industries that experience erratic fluctuations in demand and profitability are usually commodity-based industries. Hardly any of them are territories in to mine sustainable superior profit.

At the end of the day, contemporary economists will argue that over time, every industryís profitability will decline to zero profitability (equal to its cost of capital). The cost of capital for an industry turns on assessments of financial and political risk. Where there is little risk, the cost of capital will be small. Where there is a lot of risk (think high tech, for example or an industry in a 3rd-world country with expropriation tendencies), the cost of capital will be high.

There is no long-term future in any industry where there are zero profits (equal simply to the cost of capital in that industry).

(I apologize if this has been academic.)

FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 27, 2018 - 08:36am PT
No, they may not need to they DO.

OMG.

Stop with what should happen & start with what is happening.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 27, 2018 - 08:42am PT
Then it's unlikely that all the capacity has been appropriated by "the big boys," as you put it. At leas, I would say that the event would be extraordinary and will right itself in the next cycle structurally.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 27, 2018 - 08:44am PT
Perhaps you could point me to the data that supports your claim?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 27, 2018 - 08:50am PT
I think that data comes from the Robespierre Center For Entrepreneurship.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Sep 27, 2018 - 11:32am PT
In fifty years how many of these things will be laying around in fields and or crashed and left behind someone's house, everywhere cars & trucks are left now. Highly toxic & leaking.

The only thing that would be highly toxic and leaking, I would imagine, are the batteries.

I'm hopeful that it will be more economic to recycle batteries than to make them from scratch. So unless a better battery technology comes along, certainly possible, the hulks laying around everywhere won't have any batteries in them.
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Sep 27, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
Lithium isn't the easiest thing to mine/process due to the nature of the deposits. It seems probable that the value of those batteries as scrap would be high enough that the old batteries wouldn't just be left laying around.

People pull things as small as radiators and compressors from cars to recycle as scrap for the copper/al, and lithium carbonate is running about $20,000/ton where copper is only about $14,000/ton, and those batteries surely have a lot more material content than a radiator.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 27, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
One crucial difference - copper isnít highly toxic, let alone highly combustible.
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Sep 27, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
Breaking News:

Musk sued for fraud by SEC:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-falls-4percent-on-report-elon-musk-sued-by-sec.html
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