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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 29, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
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Now what is the real cost of fossil fuels ?
You should know ,stockholder.
Inform us.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 29, 2017 - 02:35pm PT
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Reilly.... thanks, I figured it was some hidden number...
Now what is the real cost of fossil fuels?
Willbeer..... for starters, you get to move around and travel freely....unlike anybody who has ever lived on our planet before lets say 1900.
You do drive do you????
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 29, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
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Only with biodiesel,but ,my question has nothing to do with me.
Yours does.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 29, 2017 - 03:01pm PT
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Guyman ,I like you man,but a change is a coming.
Their drivetrains w/batteries run about 5k.[Click to View YouTube Video][Click to View YouTube Video]
Edit;Now let me be clear ,I have a like new 86 Vanagon ,new to me,from Cali,no engine and ready for this Drivetrain.I am looking into it hard.It will be solar charged.
Fabrication and installation will cost more ,but, I already have another Vanagon I have installed a 1.9 tdi motor into and it is rock solid.So it will cost more than 5k,for sure.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 10, 2018 - 03:51am PT
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The current subsidies Tesla will take advantage of in 2018 are $5000 zev credits and $7500/car customer tax credits. Elon asked the government to remove these on May 3 2017. Across the board.
Because they are available to other manufactures as well. They use them with their electric cars.
In addition, he wants the subsidies removed that are advantageous to car companies but which he doesn't use.
You see, everyone says Tesla is running on government money (which he paid loans back in full, ahead of time) and yet they ignore the 4.6 BILLION of your tax dollars in oil subsidies that Trump paid out in 2017 to benefit your ice mobile.
So if the government quit giving a tax break of $7500 per electric car (which will stop in 2018 for Tesla anyway) and stopped giving 4.6 BILLION a year to Schell et al. it would be realistic. It makes me laugh when people whine about Tesla being supported by tax payers but they ignore how their government works and how much what they drive is also subsidized.
Canada is even worse at 3.3 Billion which is an even greater percentage of our GDP. Trudeau said he would let everything expire over the next 10 years and focus on renewables. We'll see.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 10, 2018 - 08:23am PT
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So weird. Who can think up a glow comment like that. You have a great imagination I guess. Good to see you can Entertain yourself like that!
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 10, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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I won't argue against the electric car subsidies. The country makes polices like that taking many factors into account. Gifting the richest folks in our society so they can drive an electric car may be a useful and productive thing. Won't talk about Musk either, deep respect for the man for many reasons. Lets talk instead about the $4.8 billion allegedly that the gov is GIVING to big oil. Maybe some research is in order for you Tooth. Allowing someone to keep (or for a lot of the oil taxes merely defer the tax) more of their money isn't a "gift".
https://info.drillinginfo.com/federal-oil-and-gas-subsidies/
http://www.heritage.org/environment/report/whats-oil-subsidy
Are you saying this statement below is incorrect?
"let’s analyze what the oil & gas sector pays in taxes. In 2012 the top two corporations paying federal taxes in the US were ExxonMobil and Chevron paying a combined total of $45.2 billion. On average, the industry pays a 45% tax rate when all state, federal, and foreign taxes are totaled up. By comparison the Healthcare Industry pays a total rate of 35% and the Pharmaceuticals pay an estimated rate of 21%. Based upon these numbers it’s hard to believe which business sector is criticized the most for “subsidies”."
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 10, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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We use that for big oil since that is what is used when talking about Tesla. Tax breaks and subsidies. A tax break is the same as taxing someone and then returning the money to them minus the new tax obligation that would benefit have been created. So better than getting a return on your taxes. Especially when you are paying 45% to begin with.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 10, 2018 - 09:36am PT
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I live in a place that doesn’t do anything for cars over $70,000. I think that makes sense. The electric subsidy is meant to move the bulk of cars sold to clean energy. Giving it to rich people doesn’t make a lot of sense if they are low volume sales, however, we wouldn’t have any of the cheap cars on the market here if your country had not allowed an expensive car to be built, sold and used to prod the rest of the cars into production. I think the subsidy helped there. Now my model 3 is on its way thanks to everyone who paid for model x and s’s. I just wish the other car companies would make long distance cars too. I live in northern bc too far for a bolt to be able to make it to Vancouver especially since they have no fast charging and no charging network.
If I had the choice I would buy a Toyota or Subaru again. But they don’t seem to have anything but ice engines for sale.
Ps. Inner glow and wood effect are settings in Lightroom/PS that were probably not a reflection of the poster’s religious views of Musk.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 10, 2018 - 11:29am PT
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Well the intent in that one is obvious!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 10, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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Can he walk on fresh as well as salt water?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jan 10, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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What are you two ,like eighty something?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jan 10, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
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I pray to him every night (haven't heard anything back yet).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 20, 2018 - 09:01am PT
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Just looked at the LA Times’ review of the Model 3. The car they tested had a sticker of,
wait for it,
$57,500!!!!!! Yeah, the peoples’ car! How is that gonna sell?
And the interior looks like a Polonez with an iPad bolted to the dash.
For 57 Large? Seriously?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 21, 2018 - 05:54am PT
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think nokia flip phone vs. iphone or any other modern phone now.
How will it sell? People will drive it, realize that with the smaller battery (220mi range minus $9000) and no luxury $5000 addition, it will cost 14% less than a civic or accord to own and operate over 5 years.
Plus, when you drive electric it is hard to go back to ice. By the time the 500,000 of us get ours, you can worry about Tesla selling any more.
Maybe they might spend their first dollar ever advertising it, compared to the millions spent on trying to advertise and sell civics or accords, Tesla doesn't seem to have any problems selling their cars as quickly as they can build them.
Do you really think that you need all the guages an ice car does? Oil temp? Coolant temp? RPMs? Check engine light? Brakes are hardly used, engine braking refills the battery. No distributer caps, exhaust systems to break down. Who the hell would want cars to be built with so little to break down? How is this thing going to sell?
Lower cost to own/operate for 5 years than civic/accord.
0-60 4.6 seconds with long range battery, going to increase with AWD option this spring.
You're a funny guy!
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perswig
climber
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Jan 21, 2018 - 06:26am PT
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For 57 Large? Seriously?
Betting a fidget spinner comes standard, though...
Dale
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 21, 2018 - 09:01am PT
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I just paid the same for a Volvo. I grant you the Tesla will make you feel warm and fuzzy but
I can drive my Volvo anywhere, and I’m all about road trips to wherever, such as Lofoten and
Finnmark, where we’ll be going after Volvo flies us over there.
And would you really want to spend time in this:
OR THIS?
And that ‘infotainment’ system does everything the vaunted Tesla’s does, without looking
like some junior high shop class mashup.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 21, 2018 - 09:24am PT
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Paid the same initially but after 5-10 years of ownership the comparison will be lopsided and the drive wherever you want argument is one that even if it were true today, is changing so quickly with the tens of thousands of chargers being installed and the next Tesla has 600mile range with 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. So you better use that argument quickly before anyone finds out the truth.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 21, 2018 - 09:34am PT
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Really? On last summer’s road trip thru E OR, WA, ID, MT, WY, CO,UT, and AZ I didn’t see
any charging stations. Granted, I wasn’t really looking, but I do notice them around here.
And I guarantee that the total time I spent gassing up wasn’t a fraction of one Tesla recharge.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 21, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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First photo is from one independent charging company. Next two are Tesla. You can go here...
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/charging
to determine how long a trip would take with a given Tesla for any number of stops on a trip.
I live in northern BC now, and I can get to Squamish or Banff and then on to wherever I want via Tesla, in the winter, just as quickly as with my internal combustion engine car.
Volkswagon should have almost 3000 of their fast charging stations by next year. Chargepoint has 45,000 stations.
If you don’t like the bare dasH, you can always buy a spare oil gauge from amazon and it will be “well appointed” ha ha!. .
I'm sure that the reason you didn't see them is that you are trained to look for a gas station where you take time out of your day to go specifically to a location specifically to gas up and buy bags of chips/soda pop. Electric car mentality is to do away with that and do your charging where you park to do other useful things. Eating, shopping, sleeping, etc. If that's a stupid idea and you think time should be taken out of your day to take your cell phone into a certain store, out of your way, just to recharge it, then good for you! The rest of us charge our cell phones at night while we are sleeping, or in a plug at the airport while we are travelling. We don't take time out of our days to charge our phones. Or our cars?
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