Sins of Social Security Admin visited upon Recipient's Kids

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zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 12, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
Shakedown: Treasury now seizing tax refunds from adult children to pay parents’ decades-old Social Security debts

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/11/shakedown-treasury-now-seizing-tax-refunds-from-adult-children-to-pay-parents-decades-old-social-security-debts/
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
Yes, Kafkaesque, as they mention. And over and over again, our governors wonder why the hell we loathe and fear them, and won't trust their authorities.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2014 - 09:48pm PT
Just to be clear, these are "debts" that emanate from SSA errors, not any misbehavior on the part of the folks whose kids are having their refunds seized.

Crosstalk: Nevada rancher.

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
There must be more to the story. At least in California there's generally a one yr. statute of limitations when a person dies. I suspect that some of the debts discussed in the poorly cited article are for payments made after a person died that were received when the heirs failedmto notify the SSA that the person had died.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 12, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
Don't over-pay your taxes.

Fix your withholding so you owe at the end of the year, and The Feds won't have your refund to hold hostage.

And you also won't be floating the world's biggest debtor a year-long interest-free loan.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Apr 13, 2014 - 12:00am PT
^^^

And then, make sure you've paid 90% of your taxes and file for a 6 month extension. No penalty or interest.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2014 - 11:33am PT
From the article linked to above:

The farm bill that passed in 2011 lifted the 10-year statute of limitations on debts owed to the feds. Treasury has collected more than $400 million since then on very old obligations, many of them below the radar of public scrutiny because the amounts are often small enough, i.e. a few hundred dollars, that the targets find it’s cheaper to pay up than to fight.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Apr 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
^^^^^^

That's a Bill of Attainder, or Ex Post facto law, and is invalidated by the Constitution.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 13, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
Well, it all seems a lot of 'hotair' for which reason I'm not gonna bother
to read it. I also don't don't need any more reasons to distrust 'my' guvmint.
As mentioned I suspect there is more to the story that the 'hotair' is allowing.
That said I employ an expensive CPA - it is cheaper in the long run.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
Bills of Attander - that argument isn't going to prevent anything.

Across the nation, hundreds of thousands of taxpayers who are expecting refunds this month are instead getting letters like the one Grice got, informing them that because of a debt they never knew about — often a debt incurred by their parents — the government has confiscated their check.

The Treasury Department has intercepted $1.9 billion in tax refunds already this year — $75 million of that on debts delinquent for more than 10 years, said Jeffrey Schramek, assistant commissioner of the department’s debt management service. The aggressive effort to collect old debts started three years ago — the result of a single sentence tucked into the farm bill lifting the 10-year statute of limitations on old debts to Uncle Sam.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treasury-target-hundreds-of-thousands-of-taxpayers-for-parents-old-debts/2014/04/10/74ac8eae-bf4d-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html

Reilly: Either that or don't have any parents.

Some five years ago the IRS sent a refund check to someone I know, but to the wrong address (i.e. not the one on the tax return). The person still hasn't received the money despite phone calls, "tracers" and letters. No evidence that the person ever received or cashed the check.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 13, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
Well. Z, ya can't pick yer relatives; I just got lucky. A pox on the IRS.
John M

climber
Apr 13, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
this is an abomination..
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Apr 13, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
It won't stand the test of time, such a practice is unconstitutional unless the other person is a co-signer on he debt.

Fix your withholding so you owe at the end of the year, and The Feds won't have your refund to hold hostage.

Easier said than done. Even with a massive spreadsheet to help me estimate my taxes, the tax laws are so complicated that, at best, I can estimate my taxes bill to within plus or minus $5,000. And if I underpay by $5,000 then I get hit with a big underpayment penalty on April 15th. So I am forced to err on the side of overpayment of estimated taxes.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Apr 13, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
Ex Post facto law

Sex offender registry laws also apply to those who had served their time, paid their dues, and were living their lives crime free when the laws were established. Supreme Court said that's okay. There are exceptions.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 13, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
In the bible (omg am I able to mention this book :)it says sins of the fathers being visited down to the children....but in the bible mercy is offered, doubt the IRS has this word in their vocabulary. jess sayin'....
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Apr 14, 2014 - 09:29am PT
that's typical, reilly, judge without reading...hotair is a conservative blog; that is, they offer conservative commentary on the day's news...they also cite their sources (of course, i understand, sources and facts are meaningless to libs), but the original story appeared in wapo--insert vast-right-wing-conspiracy-comment-here--you'd also see the target is african american, which, by lib definition, makes the ssa racist! except barry is president, thus, criticizing the ssa is racist!

i'll make it easy for you reilly:

"Now, Social Security claims it overpaid someone in the Grice family — it’s not sure who — in 1977."

they're not sure WHOM, but they're sure they overpaid?

"No one seems eager to take credit for reopening all these long-closed cases. A Social Security spokeswoman says the agency didn’t seek the change; ask Treasury. Treasury says it wasn’t us; try Congress. Congressional staffers say the request probably came from the bureaucracy."

why not? if they're following the law and protecting current ssa recipients?

"Social Security officials told her they had sent their notice to her post office box in Roxboro, N.C. Grice rented that box from 1977 to 1979 and never since. And Social Security has Grice’s current address: Every year, it sends her a statement about her benefits."

government efficiency at its best!

"Treasury officials say that before they will take someone’s refund, the agency owed the money must certify the debt, meaning there must be evidence of the overpayment. But Social Security officials told Grice they had no records explaining the debt."

"Grice was also told there was little point in seeking a waiver of her debt. Collections can only be halted if the person passes two tests, Clark said: The taxpayer must prove that he “is without fault, and [that] repayment of the overpayment would deprive the person of income needed for ordinary living expenses.”

that's right, the irs can penalize you BEFORE they prove you're guilty...and, now, they're going to have that power over your health care choices

so, how do libs propose to solve these issues?

MORE GOVERNMENT!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 14, 2014 - 11:27am PT
Eliminating the discharge of student loans in bankruptcy has been held NOT to to be ex post facto when applied to loans that existed before the change.

I suspect Congress will be revisiting this statute of limitations change soon, a lot of consumer groups are gearing up to lobby the issue. Fortunately Treasury is the only entity with money at stake, no corporations.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 14, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
So I am forced to err on the side of overpayment of estimated taxes.
Our Motto in the BSA was "Be prepared."
Credit: mouse from merced
Lynne, quoting from the bible is one of the mainstays of politics no more. It was useful in the times before television, anyway.

The Book of Donini has something to add here (sadly, another book which is no longer useful to the political flack--too "apochryphal"):

"Gov't will go anywhere, anytime, and efficiently." :0)

At least the YOSAR has it together, and that's real.

Is there a statute of limitations on changing statutes of limitations? I'm sure there must be, eh?
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 14, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
The government giveth and the government taketh away

Best to be honest and not take free money that doesn't belong to you

I feel bad for the kids but those are SS benefits I'd like to receive someday so I say go get em
John M

climber
Apr 14, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
so, how do libs propose to solve these issues?

MORE GOVERNMENT!

Nope.. you have not ever understood what liberals want. Perhaps thats because you are so stuck in your bias that you just can't hear. I will try one last time.

I do not want more government. I want my government to do a good job. To be as wise as it can be. Like anything, including private corporations, it can become unwieldy and it can do unwise things. But there are plenty of things that I would prefer are run by the government, rather then private corporations. The fire department is a good example.

Your problem is the you have spent so much energy demonizing government, that you can't see anything that they could do well or at least do better then private industry.
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