First base jump from the new World Trade Center

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Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 25, 2014 - 02:47am PT
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Parachuters-World-Trade-Center-Arrest.html

Three extreme-skydiving enthusiasts accused of parachuting off the 1 World Trade Center tower last fall were arrested Monday, authorities said, in a second criminal case in two weeks arising from surreptitious stunts at the nation's tallest skyscraper.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Mar 25, 2014 - 03:16am PT
wow, night jumping seems off the charts!
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:08am PT
fat cops are butthurt their fancy cameras got thwarted by dirtbag adrenalin hippies
Bad Climber

climber
Mar 25, 2014 - 09:14am PT
Well done, lads. The comment in the article about somehow denigrating the "sacred" place that is the WTC is B.S. Isn't "world trade" about freedom? I say free fall as well! Still, with all the loses recently from BASE jumping, I encourage all my jumping brothers and sisters put on a rope, grab some gear, and get yer highs on the crags---way safer.

BAd
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 25, 2014 - 09:27am PT
Felony Burglary.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 25, 2014 - 09:48am PT
New York actually passed its own specific law forbidding BASE jumping. These guys are in trouble. According to the news, it happened 6 months ago and the prosecutor spent the time and money to track them down. The really strong evidence came from their go-pro's.

I dunno. I would have respected that one. It is a symbol as much as a building, as well as being an obvious terror target. Nevertheless, BASE is usually quite harmless.

I've done big buildings at night. You stand at the exit waiting for any traffic to pass, and if there is anyone walking around that late at night, you wait until they leave. It is all easily visible. It isn't reckless endangerment. You don't jump with anyone below you.

I was never even seen by anyone but my partners as far as I know.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:05am PT
Exhibitionisim....be willing to pay the price.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:26am PT
It seems like New York City is a place where the word freedom is just a meaningless noise blowing in the wind.

Search you at anytime without probable cause? They still doing that?


Anyway trespassing and climbing or jumping off buildings will get you arrested anywhere. So I can't really get to upset about that. Although I hope the penalty is not ridiculous. It should not involve extended jail time.

Just read the article...

Felony? Bullsh#t. Not even a Gross Misdemeanor.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:49am PT
The burglary charge comes from entering a building to do something illegal. My guess is they'll get probation - unless they have a criminal history.

And if you're doing something illegal, whatever you do, DON'T video yourself doing it. That was just stupid. You may as well turn yourself in.
WBraun

climber
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:50am PT
"The Port Authority joins the NYPD in condemning this lawless and selfish act that clearly endangered the public,"

"clearly endangered the public"

LOL The Gotham city is in terror from B.A.S.E

Where's Batman and Spiderman when you need them.

"It should be clear that the PAPD and NYPD will go to any length to bring those who defile the WTC site to justice."

"defile the WTC site"

I watched the YouTube video. Where did they "defile" anything?

Yep just as I thought ..... all bullsh!t ....

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 25, 2014 - 11:03am PT
Werner, some of the charges may be trumped up, but that's what prosecutors do, to get pleas to lower charges.

People break laws, they gotta be willing to face the man.....
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Mar 25, 2014 - 11:10am PT
People break laws, they gotta be willing to face the man.....

Moral to the story is DON"T GET CAUGHT!!!
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 25, 2014 - 11:12am PT
Holy Crap- Facing felony charges for a BASE jump? Serious shee.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Mar 25, 2014 - 11:47am PT
There's a new World Trade Center?

What happened to the old ones?

Seriously, this is the first I've heard of the new building :P
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Mar 25, 2014 - 11:59am PT
"defile the WTC site"

I watched the YouTube video. Where did they "defile" anything?

I'm with The Duck on this one.

The ham-handed Bush era naming of this tower (Freedom Tower), and the height (1776 ft) is absurdly faux-patriotic, and in its absurdity diverts attention away from the truth. That feels like more of a defilement of those who died there than just jumping off the top of it.

"They attacked us because they hate our freedoms. Never forget!" What??
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 25, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
By "defile" they really mean "exploit".
The new building is supposed to be one of the most secure sites in the world and a few thrill seekers just walked through the fence, same as a teenager did recently.
The Port Authority look like fools to the world for allowing this breach in security, especially at a stage where the building is very vulnerable.
The jumpers will be made an example of, for sure.
That said, I loved it!!!! Awesome footage.
bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Mar 25, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
There's a new World Trade Center?

What happened to the old ones?

Seriously, this is the first I've heard of the new building :P

Not funny. Not clever. Not anything even remotely amusing. Jackass.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 25, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Mar 25, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
Not funny. Not clever. Not anything even remotely amusing. Jackass.

And yet, it is true, friend bjj.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 25, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
I'm sure glad the NY taxpayer dollars are going to such a worthy cause as a months long investigation to nab some dudes who committed the heinous crime of...entertaining themselves. Surely that money wouldn't have been better used preventing property theft, or processing the enormous backlog of rape-kit DNA evidence.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 25, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
Go live in Vietnam BATMANN the NAZI

As for me...GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH

AMERICA IS FULL OF PUSSIFIED ASSHOLES THESE DAYS.

America Land of the free home of the brave? Freedom Tower.. BULLSH#T

New York is scared of it's freaking Shadow.

3000 die and we throw away freedom that over 2 million soldiers supposedly died for.

Talk about spitting on graves.

Fact is they got embarased by a few kids and want to make them an example.

Pathetic. Might as well be China.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 25, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Randisi, the old ones were knocked down by bad guys after hijacking big jets. The new one, Freedom Tower, 1776 ft tall, is the replacement, and an homage to the originals.


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 25, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
Yeah, I've alway been a little mystified about the adulation given to base jumping by the climbing community. If you do it ....fine, it's just something that doesn't appeal to me and i've done some pretty interesting parachuting.
The stats are a little sobering. A person dies in one out of every 2,340 base jumps compared to one fatality in every 117,000 sky dives. That makes it fifty times more dangerous but, hell, I've alpine climbed for years....everyone chooses their own poison.
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 25, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
for the record batman, many base jumpers are climbers. you can cry all you want about "your" sport... keep posin.
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:02pm PT
^^^glad you don't feel strongly about the subject. I'm sure you're a great person at the crags as well and donate your time to the charities on your off time.
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
batman, this is getting funny. I was playing with you and didn't expect all those details. let us not limit "our" freedoms here by imposing on others. carry on.

this is a classic case of simply getting around "super security" as the donuts were ordered. Now let's bust them cause they broke the law, ya and waterboard too.
John M

climber
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
didn't know there was a new world trade center building. Thought the site was a memorial.

Mooser wrote,


The ham-handed Bush era naming of this tower (Freedom Tower), and the height (1776 ft) is absurdly faux-patriotic, and in its absurdity diverts attention away from the truth. That feels like more of a defilement of those who died there than just jumping off the top of it.

exactly..

As for Batmann.. what people want to do with their lives is cool by me, as long as it doesn't endanger someone else.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
I'm sure glad the NY taxpayer dollars are going to such a worthy cause as a months long investigation to nab some dudes who committed the heinous crime of...entertaining themselves. Surely that money wouldn't have been better used preventing property theft, or processing the enormous backlog of rape-kit DNA evidence.


Don't forget it's also one of the only states in the nation that has yet to legalize MMA. Kind of like the Sodomy laws of Fun Sh#t,
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
Imprison them, before they kill someone else.

Wouldn't that imply that they have already caused the death of another? If so, that would be a whole different matter.

However, it's not, and you misspoke once again, Lance.

Your voice is welcome here, but your assumptions and vitriolic writing are not.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 25, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
Why in hell are are you so worked up?

There are a lot of bad things in this world, BASE isn't one of them. NYC is full of dangers. Subways kill an average of 1 person every three days. How many deaths have BASE jumpers caused in NYC excluding their own?

So who the f*#k cares? Live and let live.

Which brings us back to the WTC stunt. A stunt that benefitted nothing and nobody, anywhere.

And rock climbing? What of that? Who does that benefit?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
Peace. Hope you find something to make you happy brother.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:40pm PT
I guess I'm that stupid. Yeah, they should open it up. But charge them. New York's a dangerous place. But you keep your wits about you and don't get fuuqed up. I work 4 blocks away from it.

The WTC is a triumph. It's also a target. I may live to see this one come down as well. A lot more to worry about than a few BASE d00ds.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:44pm PT

Wuz it Caylor?????
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
I know quite a few BASE jumpers. Most of them (the ones I know) started as climbers. Big respect to them, takes a lot of confidence and huevos to chuck yourself off the precipice.

Earlier this year, I jumped from a plane with a military demo team. Exit at 12,500, pulled at 5k. It was kind of exciting until you get to terminal v, so maybe 5-10 seconds or something? Then it was just kinda cold and windy with a good view until you pull. That part's cool, feels like being on a reverse bungie jump from the massive deceleration. And I can see how wingsuiting might be fun.

But the rest of it? Meh. Climbing falls seem much scarier and more adrenaline inducing to me (compared to hucking from a plane, I've never BASE jumped). So I guess I don't get the appeal, but hey I don't get the appeal of sitting around watching cars drive in circles, or turning yarn into sweaters either.

Let people have their fun. Otherwise you'll be banning water skiiing, cycling, rollerblading, driving automobiles, or anything else that comes anywhere near another person. Good for those dudes, I hope it was a fun jump. I hope the judge rips the DA a new as#@&%e for wasting the courts time and taxpayers money pursing this kind of BS.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
NYC isn't the only place you'll be arrested for BASE jumping. Seems like the same rules apply in Yosemite.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 25, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
I think they should charge 50 grand a jump from the WTC. Cordon off some landing area and run them a few minutes apart. Like the NYCM The know they have to pay the bills. NYC Cops get that. I hope our new mayor can assplain to them.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
At 50 grand a jump you'll need a lottery to keep the numbers in check.
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
^^maybe an anger management class would be of benefit
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
Earlier this year, I jumped from a plane with a military demo team.


On an official DOD OP out of a DOD A/C?
John M

climber
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
he doesn't need to learn how to manage it. He needs to learn how to get over it. Problem is he likes his anger. He thinks it makes him real, so he nurses it.
John M

climber
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
for its strengths.

LOL. yeah.. you use it for its strengths. you go Rox.. drive it all the way home. Pound that anger. It makes you stronger.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
Nice to see you Rox.

There is no way you can say it was safe for anybody in the area or safe for the local structures. NYC is not a safe BASE Landing site. Period.

I would bet it's safer to base jump at night in NYC than cross the road at rush hour!
Timid TopRope

Social climber
the land of Pale Ale
Mar 25, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
I see rockjox/batman is firing off his "wisdom" all over ST before the mods whack his 57th incarnation. You liven the place up. I mean that in a bad way.

Note to self. Don't post my illegal activity on you tube.

Great video, though.
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
as we are now completely off subject.... back in the day (early 2000's), Rockjox actually contributed some great stories.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
You know you've watched too many BASE videos when the part that actually makes you cringe is the dude running a red light.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
RIP Batmann, everybody hated you but especially CMac. Boom goes the dynamite.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
I wouldn't f*#k with New Yorkers. Juss sayin'.
Will_P

Trad climber
Melbourne, Victoria
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
You've got a right to your opinions, Batmannn, but seriously, your timing couldn't be more insensitive or thoughtless. So keep it to yourself.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
BASE is beautiful! It shouldn't be against the law.
Awesome jump. I hope they have a savvy lawyer.

I often wonder how public opinion might have changed if even one person had BASE jumped to safety on nine one one.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
Its not a sport, its a Stunt, and a damn dangerous one, and OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS to everyone.


Whew, that was close! I'm glad the danger for me has passed, and that I get to keep typing from my little chair, a seemingly safe place.
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
If you read my posts going back years here you'll find I don't like rules and regulation. But this case seems clear cut to me. If the police would have shot the jumpers off the roof, in the air, or when they landed... and asked questions later?... I would have been good with that.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
There's is some funny sh#t in this thread. Some guy saying that BASE jumpers are just idiots and that they are a danger to everyone? I think that the odds of being killed by a BASE jumper landing on you is... zero. It is certainly less than the odds of being killed by a falling vending machine, which itself is higher than the odds of being killed by a shark. Don't get me started on drunk drivers, which kill most people on most days. BASE jumpers a danger? Just to the ego of every cop in NYC.

But what's really funny is when any person involved in a dangerous activity is critical of someone involved in a more dangerous activity. It's as if there is supposed to be some line that is never crossed and everyone is told of this line of danger when they are born. "Son, there are dangerous things in the world. Some are on our side of the danger line and some are on the other. DON'T CROSS THAT LINE. It's right there just past rock climbing but before you get to BASE jumping."

To be honest, I had heard almost nothing about this new building. I think that it was built by a conspiracy when no one was looking. Each night when no one is around, men in black sneak in and add another few bombs to the structure to make it look like a plane... Sorry, wrong conspiracy; men in black go in and add a few new floors every night and no one sees or hears them.

Dave


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 28, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
there is Zero doubt that BASE is off the charts danger compared to climbing. only thing that comes close in the climbing world is high altitude peak bagging. proximity flying is beyond stupid. I am certain that the act of flying is amazeing but to attempt to see how close you can get to solid objects without going splat is FCKIN stupid.
Sanskara

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
But it sure sounds fun!

Gotta come down to a matter of quality vrs quantity thing. How much stock a person decides they are going to put in this shell we call a body that since inception our society has burned into our brains we must cling so tightly to.

I don't see it as crazy but I see why most do.
WTF

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
While base/wing suiting are amazing sports, high risk high reward I guess. I find they have been leaving a big wake of sadness in their glory.



Just saying......
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
It would be cheaper and easier to hire the guys for teaching the proper authorities of the State of New York as well as other States/cities that could be and need High Target Structures Security Placement in way of safeguarding, protection and securing said structures.

New York City will charge the tax payers 3 million dollars over a period of a year or two to recheck all work down from the time the first yard of concrete has been placed to see if any parts [material] has not been compromised in the construction from day one.

Dumb sh%ts, Hey! what do you expect [mistakes] with them happens all the time.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
Seriously . Proximity flying is like rideing a motorcycle at top speed and trying to get as close as possible to bridge abutments, big trees, tractor trailers, cement trucks, stone buildings etc. In all my years of street raceing we did a lot of very, very stupid sh#t and not all of us lived but we Never tried to get close solid objects. certainly sometimes we did get too close. the point being to pick the fastest line but you knew damn well that you did not get too close the fcking cement trucks. run fast, run clean but no playing chicken with logging trucks. We were dumber than whale sh#t and even we knew that was stupid! Proximity flying seems to be all about getting as close as possible to things that will kill you. I would think that the act of flying itself would be cool enough that you would be totaly happy dropping out of a plane and flying like a bird without trying to get close to sh#t that is going to kill you. heck most of the birds just fly arround and chill. The only ones I see that play chicken with cars are Robins. something about robins they seem to like to cross the road right in front of your car? Barn swallows proximity fly but they Never fck up. Heck if I could fly like a bird i would be stoked to just cruise arround checking sh#t out. no need to fly straight at a rock wall and miss it by inches.....
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:38am PT
The police state of New York City. No freedom at all.

Yeah, right.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:47am PT
I find they have been leaving a big wake of sadness in their glory.

Ah, yes my friend but what is sadness, but selfishness . . . and what is glory?

The attainment of that which most fear.
John M

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:51am PT
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:53am PT
Exhibitionisim

I don't think that's a word
weezy

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:55am PT
Exhibitionisim n: to lead Supercrack with only three peices in front of a gallery of admirers.
WTF

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:50am PT
In 1987 I saw a guy jump the Empire State Building in the middle of the day.
He landed and got right into a cab and vanished. After three blinks I couldn't tell which cab he had gotten into.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 29, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
Ah, yes my friend but what is sadness, but selfishness . . . and what is glory?

Yep, those survivors are such selfish people, particularly those children.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:24pm PT

Mar 28, 2014 - 06:08pm PT
While base/wing suiting are amazing sports, high risk high reward I guess. I find they have been leaving a big wake of sadness in their glory.



Just saying......

Many of us, friends and family, have had huge wakes of sadness overwhelm us when our amazing high risk Alpineer brethren die. What's your point? I watched a video of a guy jumping out of a plane without a parachute. During free fall he links up with another jumper who is holding an extra rig. But the guy doesn't put it on he just deploys the chute and holds on to one of the straps in on hand. At one point under canopy he hangs inverted from his feet.
One tiny slip and he is history. Kind of like driving on Californian freeways.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 29, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
I know that guy from '87. His visa had expired, so he didn't care too much.

What most of you don't realize is how often this is going on. It is going on as I type, and tonight while you sleep, jumps are still going on.

I've alpine climbed and BASE jumped. I would say that alpine climbing is more dangerous than BASE. How many rocks have missed your head by 12 inches, Donini? My closest calls were in the mountains. For an expert jumper, something like El Cap is ridiculously safe.

It also doesn't help when someone makes less than ten or even fifty skydives, and then goes around making judgments. It takes a good thousand skydives for you to start getting good at it. Same with BASE. It is like somebody who got guided up Double Cross passing judgment on climbing.

I've done a ton of sh#t, and a good long terminal velocity jump is hands down the most amazing experience that I've ever had.

Hank probably averages a jump per day, yet you never hear of it. He keeps it on the down low, and that is part of the BASE ethic. You won't hear much about illegal jumps, which still go on in this country every day and night without incident. You usually jump buildings when they are under construction, and there are many buildings that were jumped hundreds of times with zero incidents, including busts. At 3:00am, there is nobody around. I've also never heard of a bystander getting hurt by a jumper.

Sorry to say this, but you guys know little about what you are talking about. Hell, compared to Hank, I am an old fart with little knowledge of the modern scene. I was a hardcore back when it was a very small community.

Geez. The SAR site used to be my hiding place.

I will say that it is too bad that it is becoming more popular.

Out of the hundreds of jumps that go down with no big deal, there is the occasional one that you even hear about. Very few BASE jumps are even witnessed we are so sneaky.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 29, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
Posting the jump on YouTube?

Very sneaky.

Anyway it's all just rationalization like all of us do, a lot. You decide it's worth the risk and then you go and do it. Hopefully you live through it and don't devastate others in pursuit of your dreams. Or you decide it's not worth it and you walk away.

I'm not going to judge it, however it does seem to me that when you have children with someone you are kind of agreeing to doing your best to be around for them...not sure BASE jumping or free soloing fits that agreement. I got out of that by not having kids...still, I feel some obligation to my girl, brother, dogs, parents, friends etc. to not push it chasing some feeling. I'm an adrenaline junkie and lucky to be alive. I see that now, and I know where it ends up.

Be safe out there.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 29, 2014 - 08:31pm PT
I listen to Xaver Bongard and all the other dead jumpers. Endorphins are a drug. Use responsibly. It turns out that there is cooler stuff than being brazen. Why are we at the fringe anyway? Did you believe that it's because we are enlightened? I thought that was just hype to justify meaningless pursuits and conquests if the useless. What do I know? I'm a poor carpenter and a cautious father who cherishes life.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 29, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
It also doesn't help when someone makes less than ten or even fifty skydives, and then goes around making judgments. It takes a good thousand skydives for you to start getting good at it. Same with BASE. It is like somebody who got guided up Double Cross passing judgment on climbing.

It also doesn't help when you post the above, then later in your post state you are unqualified to judge.

I'm not much into telling people what to think, or that they are allowed to think.

Climbing is about, to a large degree, self-reliance. That means constantly making judgments. It you don't, and you get into dicey things, you really risk death through stupidity.

so posting about a risky sport, here, and not expecting to get judgments is just silly.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Mar 29, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
Dumb stunt.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 29, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
Hardly a "dumb stunt". It was a thing of amazing beauty that took way more effort than most folks would ever realize. As for risks to the non-jumping people, you are probably at greater risk at a NASCAR event. So when several high speed tires and an engine block go over the fence and slam into the drunken stands it' is OK because car crashes and beer swillin' are Honey Boo Boo Red Neck approved risks.
But engaging in what are perceived as "extreme risk" adventures is just not acceptable to Joe, "the Plumber, Q. Public".
Climbers condemning the risk taking of BASE jumpers is rich with irony.


7SacredPools

Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
I've never base jumped but I find it very appealing. There's something beautiful about climbing a mountain, a face, or even a building and then leaping off. Kind of a full circle thing.
People legally and illegally endanger themselves countless times, in countless ways, every minute, of every day.
I'm not saying this should be allowed, but if it were up to me I'd shut down a street for an hour on calm nights and let the fly boys have at it. Ha, guess I just said it should be allowed...

And Philo, you're bang on.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:22pm PT
I'm not much into telling people what to think, or that they are allowed to think.

Climbing is about, to a large degree, self-reliance. That means constantly making judgments. It you don't, and you get into dicey things, you really risk death through stupidity.

Ken, don't know you. BASE104 has done a ton of sheet. Big walls, alpine, BASE (hence the 104), Alaska treks solo. You just piss me off that you are passing judgment; he is a friend. If you knew him you would appreciate his enthusiastic spirit and self reliance. The guy knows where he is coming from.

John Penca, aka johntp

edit: apologies for the OT post, but I stand up for my friends.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
For a non-BASE jumper, Philo has the most BASE experience of anyone I know(did that make any sense?). That's a fact.

BASE104 is trying to say more than what is capable of being written clearly(if that makes any sense?). BASE jumping is a complicated thing with so many factors and variables. Every thing on this planet that's possible to parachute off of has it's own unique scenario. Legal, not legal, daytime/nighttime, cliffs, buildings, cranes on buildings, nuclear silos, dams, wind turbines, freaky bridges, smokestacks etc etc etc. Nobody's ever jumped a tree, funny. BASE104 is a crazy ass living legend no doubt, just a few people know it. It's a hard thing to explain in a paragraph.

fluffy had like 5 things in that post that I fully agreed with.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 30, 2014 - 12:27am PT
Flashback: 1991ish.

I'm in college in Atlanta. They are constructing this huge new skyscraper about two blocks from my house in midtown. The Nationsbank tower. No idea what it's called now, Nationsbank was bought out or folded. It was the tallest building in the state at about 1000' and something like the 10th tallest in the country.

This big bitch on the right:



Anyway, out on some drunken exploits one night, we're walking home from the bars and this thing is under construction with all the height on, but not even windows or anything. We're gawking up at it, there'e a big light on the tip and all of a sudden.."AIIII YAIYAIYAI YIPPPIE KAI YAY MOTHERFU#$ERS!" Whoosh! WHOOSH! Two guys jumped it. Coolest thing I'd ever seen at that point. First base jumpers I'd ever seen. I don't even think I'd ever heard of BASE at that point.

Years later, first El Cap route, pre-dawn after the first night on the wall...whizzzzzz...oh sh#t rockfall! Then pop, pop..two jumpers. Two days later, more jumpers.

Since then, I've watched guys jump El Cap when I was on the summit twice. It's surreal to watch. You can't quite get your head around that this guy you know is about to step off into the void and then HOLY SH#T!! there he goes. Seen Half Dome jumped, a few bridges, and a couple cliffs in so Utah. Never done it myself, actually just did my first freefall from a plane recently. And it's probably not something I'll ever do. But it's still one of the coolest things I've ever seen...those dudes hucking Nationsbank, in the middle of the night with no fanfare, no audience (that they knew about anyway). No cameras, nothing but two dudes and a true adventure in the middle of 3 million sleeping people.

Some diabetic fatf*#k stuffing their face Ben and Jerrys or some teen texting on their phone while driving are infinitely more dangerous and costly to themselves and society at large. Yet we don't have a scale at the Ben and Jerry's case, or a movement lockout on texting apps. No throttle governors on ricerocket street bikes. No 75mph speed limiters on cars or trucks. All this patriot horseshit about FREEDUMB and LIBERTY, yet somebody does something that makes people realize they couldn't carry these guys balls with a wheelbarrow and they start all the "reckless stunts!! lock them up!!"

Keep hucking you crazy fux. I, for one, salute you.



philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 30, 2014 - 03:53am PT
For a non-BASE jumper, Philo has the most BASE experience of anyone I know(did that make any sense?). That's a fact.

Hank that was really gracious of you to say. Not sure how much of a "fact" it is but there is some truth in what you say. I have been around BASE since the very early jumps off the Painted Wall in the 70s. I have been fortunate enough to be closely associated with some amazing cats who huck. I have also seen a whole lot of human carnage, some BASE related but much more related to climbing. No I have never jumped except up and down while watching BASE jumpers. Several years ago knowing my passionate fascination for flight Hank comped me a tandem sky dive at the LZ he frequented. That was a cool offer and I was excited by the prospect but foolish chivalry got the better of me and I gave the jump to my then wife for her 40th bday. It was an awesome experience and the video rocks! My favorite part was waiting at the LZ with hank, my then young kids and a bevy of nubile hotties in short shorts and tube tops. At one point in his most gregarious Hankness Caylor looks over at the smoker next to him and noticing her tattoo he quite flirtatiously, but loud enough for all to hear, asks her "You know what they say about girls with Tramp Stamps?" Then noticing my wee little impressionable daughter Amber standing coyly to his other side he answers his own question with a hilariously limpid "woo hoo".
Cracked me up.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Mar 30, 2014 - 04:00am PT
if you Base Jump into the horse trough at Knotts Berry Farm you get a free prime rib dinner, with desert,

watch out for the horse,

Credit: Dr.Sprock
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 30, 2014 - 10:57am PT
I call crotch rockets zoom splats. they go zooming down the road then they go splat. A huge part of it is not that you do something dangerous but how you do that dangerous activity.. then there are the activitys that have high objective hazards that you have little or no control over.. high altitude mountainering and sever alpinism comes to mind... street raceing.... little bit of funky wind when you are proximity flying...
WTF

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Consider philo I might be tired of seeing people I know hit the earth at terminal velocity.
I'm also tired of seeing their kids grow up without dads.
Consider the fact I in 25 plus years of climbing still have all my climbing friends.
Consider the fact that while I don't care if you BASE jump I think that one should really consider the fact that when you have young kids and newborns about to arrive you might give it a rest for a bit and get to know those kids because I can tell you there is no sport no jump no climb more awesome than a day with my kid and a night with my wife.

Consider I would love to have seen Sean again in el portal or Shane again at squaw.
Consider some of us are not able to check our feelings Into they were doing what they love box as an acceptable excuse for their deaths.

Just ticking off a list of jumps before your locked into parenting is a bad excuse for continuing to do things that have a zero error margin.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 30, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
Ahh..that crap about me is exaggerated. I was never any good at anything. Just good enough to be a witness to some cool events. Like Forrest Gump.

I will say that my first BASE jump from El Cap was the most incredible experience of my life. The birth of my son was right up there with it.

It is such a beautiful experience. I was so scared that I almost sh#t my pants, but the microsecond that I jumped and saw the entire SE face of El Cap fill my vision, all anxiety left like a wave. The first couple of seconds were quiet, but as I accelerated, I could feel and hear the wind. Then you are flying. You learn how to fly your body by skydiving, and it is pretty simple to jump El Cap. I assume that your wingsuit inflates at about the same moment, but I left BASE long before wingsuits.

The ten seconds that it took for El Cap Tower to come up to my right felt like minutes. It is so intense that time dilates and it feels like it is very slow. I started tracking at about 3 seconds, when you have enough airspeed to start turning, tracking, whatever. El Cap is so steep over the Dawn wall that you visibly see it slowly falling back as you track further and further away. I would guess that even my shitty first track put me several hundred feet from the wall. Actually striking El Cap baffles me. It is such an easy track.

Then you throw your pilot chute and open. Later, when I was jumping El Cap regularly, I would fly left, close to the wall, and exchange monkey shouts with my bros climbing routes.

I won't give out all of the info on how to avoid arrest, but I was always super paranoid and was never caught.

You have to pull kind of high on El Cap, because you have to reach the meadow area to land. On Half Dome, you can burn it all the way down and open super low, so Half Dome is the longest jump in the valley for a non wingsuiter.

I missed out on wingsuits, and I can tell you this: Wingsuit BASE is its own animal. It requires real skills that are not required in normal BASE.

I can still remember everything about that first BASE jump. I can even remember the smell. I've never been more alive in my entire life.

Stuff like jumping a gigantic building is really no biggie for a good jumper with modern gear. If you haven't seen the video of Hank telling his building strike story, well, that is about as bad as it gets..and hilarious.

BASE taught me a lot about fear. Hey, just don't be afraid. I bet half of the posters on Supertopo are scared of the dark when sleeping alone out in the woods. It is a pretty common fear. I just learned not to flip out, and it helped me free soloing, getting charged by a very pissed off grizzly bear, lots of stuff. A lot of people get sensory overload and their brains just shut down. BASE is full of people whose brains go into a weird hyper-aware zone of experience. Those who can't get that type of focus naturally don't last very long.

I would have to say that my first jump from El Cap was the most surprisingly aware moments of my entire life. Like most things, BASE becomes fairly routine as you gain experience. You can evaluate risk on a real time basis, and most of all, have the knowledge to just turn around and climb back down if conditions aren't right. I've turned around on a ton of jumps if the winds are goofy for example.

Have any of you bitches free soloed? Geez, we used to always just downclimb a 2 pitch 5.8 instead of rapping off or hiking down the backside at our home crag. After you have done a route a hundred times, soloing it is no big deal. I used to solo routes all of the time, and a few times it got intense enough to kind of approach that BASE type awareness.

Hank has his own stories to tell, but what got him into BASE is probably the same uber-experience that I had.

El Cap was always a beautiful jump. It baffles me that anyone could die on it, but there are no experience or currency rules. Anyone can jump it, and the accidents have all been from people who shouldn't have been there. For instance, if there were an invite only BASE event off of El Cap that Hank ran, it would all be qualified jumpers, much like the legal jumps of the KL tower in Malaysia.

Sean's death hit people hard, but I got an email from Potter the other day saying that he was doing good. They went in and helped recover Sean's body as well as figuring out what went wrong.

I am totally serious when I say that if you haven't done it, no way will you understand it.

I will say that the few moments of my life where I achieved absolute clarity were mostly jumping. It is not a stunt. People who call it that are mostly nimrods whose only qualification to comment consist of an internet connection and a keyboard. It really is that far out there.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 30, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
Nice summation....we always fear and revile what we don't know or understand.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 30, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
nicey written.

Still think proximity flying is about as smart as street raceing...
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 30, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
Witness the sickness:









That's the RADNESS BRAH!!!!!!!!111!!111
Sanskara

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
I don't jump but I will.

Since the first time I saw someone fly a wing suit I knew I was something I had to and would do. Jumping off Christ The Redeemer has been a big part of that dream. I know at some point I will fulfill it.

For whatever reason I only became keen to people jumping about 5-6 years ago when I was first learning to climb. Don't ask how I missed it for so long but I did, maybe I was aware and it just did not grab me and resonate as something "I had to do" who knows?

I have not really had a regular steady form of income since I started climbing. I am kinda all all cards in kinda guy and set some lofty goals that I at least felt require I put 100% of my energy into climbing. Well a least as much as life would allow. With that said skydiving with intention to BASE jump have not been a realist pursuit as skydiving is expensive and I am broke!

That pic of Christ The Redeemer might be just the motivation I need to get a steady job. Well that and I have reached what I consider a pretty good base to build off of with regard to my climbing abilities and I don't really need to give it 100% anymore.

Sweet pics, inspiring thanks for sharing!

WBraun

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
That's the RADNESS BRAH!!!!!!!!111!!111


What's so RAD about it?

I've seen people in iron lungs being RAD !!!!!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 30, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Sanskara, there are lots of things you can do at a DZ to make money, primarily packing other people's rigs. I know people who earned their whole living that way.

A lot of skydiving experience isn't necessary if you have a good mentor, but it definitely diminishes you chances of getting hurt. Don't give up. It is worth it.

You might have to get a job of some sort for a while, though. A good rig isn't cheap.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Mar 30, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
BASE is not climbing.
It is something else.
But it is not climbing.
It is jumping.
Jumping is not climbing.
Sanskara

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
Base104,

I can come up with the $$ for a rig. I could save the money to get certified if I wanted. It's just a matter of setting the ball in motion.

I do construction work so I can make as little or much as I want. I just prefer climbing to work so I have chosen a life that allows me time to climb and just enough resources to make it happen. Well at least locally, if I wanted to do the volume of climbing I do locally in far off cool places I would have to actually get a regular job and probably climb much less in the end.

As for base if I could find the mentor I am sure I would be off and running. It was only a handful of years ago now that I took up climbing. Being I took up ice climbing before rock it was not very easy to break into. I really had to persist, take it one step at a time put myself out there again and again over and over in hopes of landing in capable hands willing to teach me the ropes. Ultimately I came into the right hands but not without quite a bit of effort on my part. In all reality I payed guides for a good season and a half a couple times a week till I had something to bring to the table to offer a partner.

I imagine if I found it hard to break into ice climbing I will find base equally if not much more difficult to find my way. As they should have been people where very very cautious when I first came around wanting to learn to climb ice. I did not let it dissuade me but instead used the resistance as motivation to get from point A to point B. I am so glad I did as I know take the sharp only a few short years later on climbs that I once though might always be above my pay grade. Climbs I once looked at and would think if I can acquire the skill to get my ass up that someday that will really be something. Climbs I never thing I had a chance of ever getting up.

I am sure I will figure the base thing out in due time. Tbh I have yet to even open my mouth and say boo about it to anyone or share with another that is something I have been thinking about for quite some time.

One of my concerns is that being on the east coast I may have much less exposure to the community if I do start reaching out making it all that much more difficult?
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Mar 30, 2014 - 10:14pm PT
2 more proxy deaths in Switzerland yesterday, sold our wingsyuits. Still love to BASE jump, just not like that anymore. No we don't have kids, but each other is reason enough for us to play it... more cool.
Weenie and the Butt
Weenie and the Butt

When BASE is good, it's soooo good..
Credit: Hankster
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 31, 2014 - 01:13am PT
Ken, don't know you. BASE104 has done a ton of sheet. Big walls, alpine, BASE (hence the 104), Alaska treks solo. You just piss me off that you are passing judgment; he is a friend. If you knew him you would appreciate his enthusiastic spirit and self reliance. The guy knows where he is coming from.

johntp, it is good to stand up for your friends.

But I don't care how good he is, he does not have the right, nor do you, to tell people that they are not allowed to have opinions on stuff posted on the internet. Why the hell post it, if you don't want it commented upon?
The only reason would be for hero-worship. Is that what you guys are about? Somehow, I don't think so.

I assure you that I am more qualified and famous in my area of specialty than you or base are in yours....however, when I post in that area here, which I do from time to time, I expect feedback, pushback, judgements, disagreements, etc. and I get them, no surprise.

THAT IS WHAT THIS PLACE IS ABOUT!
WBraun

climber
Mar 31, 2014 - 01:36am PT
Ken M -- "I assure you that I am more qualified and famous in my area of specialty than you or base are in yours."

Who gives a sh!t how famous.

Concentrate on being the doctor you're supposed to be.

Let these guys worry about themselves .....

I've been around these type of guys my whole life.

I don't for one instant believe you even have a clue to theirs .....

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 31, 2014 - 02:05am PT
Ken M, it sounds like you don't believe in 'second opinions'.
jaaan

Trad climber
Chamonix, France
Mar 31, 2014 - 06:20am PT
2 more proxy deaths in Switzerland yesterday,

Sadly I think it's now three this weekend plus one very badly injured.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 31, 2014 - 07:45am PT
31 years of climbing and still have all my climbing friends. knock on wood......
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 31, 2014 - 09:30am PT
Hank, that's a huge decision. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's not easy to make.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 31, 2014 - 10:34am PT
What is a "proxy" death?
snakefoot

climber
cali
Mar 31, 2014 - 11:03am PT
Reilly, proximity (not proxy) flying (i know you did not originally write that)... near walls/waterfalls and through canyons, along trees and trails, and even past clouds to name a few.

wow, now we have famous people all over here...ha
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 31, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
Snakefoot, thanks, I figgered it was some slang I am not privy to.
You have to admit it does sound weird.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 2, 2014 - 01:45am PT
Ken M, it sounds like you don't believe in 'second opinions'.

You must not read what I write.

And it sounds like a bunch of people are caught up in fame statements. I DO NOT advocate that one's statements should be judged on one's fame. That was exactly my point.

And I was responding to the poster who defended his friend by telling us all that in base, his statements are not to be questioned, he is so damn hot.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:33am PT
And I was responding to the poster who defended his friend by telling us all that in base, his statements are not to be questioned, he is so damn hot.

I never made that statement. Here is what I wrote:

Ken, don't know you. BASE104 has done a ton of sheet. Big walls, alpine, BASE (hence the 104), Alaska treks solo. You just piss me off that you are passing judgment; he is a friend. If you knew him you would appreciate his enthusiastic spirit and self reliance. The guy knows where he is coming from.

John Penca, aka johntp

edit: apologies for the OT post, but I stand up for my friends.

You must not read what I write.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Apr 2, 2014 - 06:37am PT
Hank, that's a huge decision. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's not easy to make.

I'm sorry, I didn't get it. What's a huge decision?
snakefoot

climber
cali
Apr 2, 2014 - 10:10am PT
Reilly, weird and flat out wrong. only for voting..then it makes sense

hank, probably about you selling the bird suit
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 2, 2014 - 11:34am PT
Seems to me there is a lot of meat in this subject.Some opinions or conclusions seem valid others not so much.

As a climber and more so as a one time euro-style extreme ski-mountaineer I cannot see much validity to the idea that BASE can be a Felony infraction of the law in any form. There just is not enough risk of public harm or intent to harm involved in my opinion.

I certainly can understand fines and misdemeanor status in various place.

Now regarding the risk involved. I'm a slightly informed layman regarding BASE. It is fascinating and there was a time I would have taken it up in a heartbeat. I was just too broke back then and perhaps more importantly just was not around it.

I am certain the the amount of risk involved is fully up to the choices of the participant. The full spectrum from very low to very high is surely available. As in climbing Risks are mitigated based on difficulty/objective issues, experience, skill and judgement of conditions

It seems pretty foolish to simply say that all BASE is too risky. Are some participants foolish risk takers is a more complicated question but I am sure that some are. Here we are Getting into judgement call land just the same as in climbing. What you feel is worth the risk is different for another human being.

But I'm sure you all have known climbers you thought simply were pushing themselves too far on a regular basis. People who got hurt or worse and you simply were not very surprised or maybe you even thought.. I'm surprised it took so long.

I guess my point is this. I support anyone's right to risk their own lives in ways that do not seriously risk the lives of others. I may not personally respect your decision and you may not care how I feel anyway but...

It's in the end about protecting freedom.. protecting our reasons for living seems nearly as, if not more important than protecting life itself.

Give me liberty or give me death seems an extreme but understandable viewpoint.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
^^^^Nice post.

As it is with climbs, all objects have a certain objective risk. Meaning that you have to adjust your gear and methods for each particular object.

I have gone to the trouble of climbing 1500 foot objects, and when I got to the top the wind direction had changed, making it far more dangerous than it would have been if the wind had been blowing in the right direction with a certain windspeed.

If I didn't like it, I would climb back down without hesitation. I freely admit to backing off of a number of jumps if the conditions weren't good, and these were mostly objects that I had done many times previously.

As with climbs, some jumps are more dangerous than others, and you know this when you plan a jump. It seems obvious to me, but non-jumpers have no clue as to how the jumper decides to jump or not jump an object.

Some jumps are actually pretty darn safe. Some are not. You pack differently for different objects, choose different gear, and change methods for each individual jump.

The worst thing you can do is start yacking about the risk when you don't understand even the basics of how to do a BASE jump.

Like climbing, which has objective dangers such as rockfall or storms, BASE also has objective dangers.

Right now we are seeing a lot of wingsuit fatalities. I'm no expert on wingsuits, but I skydived and BASE jumped enough to have a grasp of the dangers involved. Wingsuiting is still sort of new, and things such as choosing the right suit can have serious dangers.
WBraun

climber
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
See ^^^ Thanks Mark

Then you get the wannabee expert know it alls like Ken M's who should stick to being a doctor and stay away from BASE commenting.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
Then you get the wannabee expert know it alls like Ken M's who should stick to being a doctor and stay away from BASE commenting.

Then you get the wannabee expert know it alls like Braunie who should stick to climbing punditry and STAY AWAY from SCIENCE descriptions and philosophizing.

A case, no, better, a need, for "practice what you preach" if ever there were one, lol!!
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