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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Mar 24, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
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On the one hand crack climbing is more elegant when
the jams are not spoiled by those pesky cam devices.
Bolt on!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 24, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
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Ginsu Flake at Hidden Wall Cal Domes
KP Ariza, I am glad you brought up Ginsu. I was just reading an article in an old Climbing magazine about Calaveras dome. WOW, the Hidden Wall is like the Rostrum on steroids. If you have some photos of you and your friends climbing some routes on it you should post a mini TR or something. Not many photos of that place are out and it seems like there is some really good climbing. Most likely way to hard for me now, but nice to look over and get excited about...
Good thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=874558
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Mar 24, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
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Vitaly, I've never climbed at Hidden Domes. Sorry I can't help you with photos but there's an old Climbing mag issue with photos and stories of those routes. They look amazing!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
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I have that one :)
Have done a few routes (that I will be glad to repeat), and would love to do more up there. It is a great place with climbing of high quality. Very different from any place where I climbed before.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:07pm PT
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Vitaliy,
I climbed at Hidden Wall in 10/2002 and followed Ginsu and other stuff,
but this was before I had a digital camera and after I had stopped shooting slides.
The flake is not very hard, but you have to aid to reach it, and the climbing above it is hard.
The place has a short season which overlaps with Yosemite, and the climbing is pretty hard, so that reduces the crowds a bit. :-)
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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I put those routes up with Ken Nichols in '81.
I was drunk at the time, so the bolting was done on rappel. I cut the tree we rapped from down when we were done so the leaf litter wouldn't accumulate in the crack.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Sonora
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
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WOW NutAgain! That is some quality man pain.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
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Fat Dad, the gorge is a sport climbing area, and when I go climb there I do not want to think about bringing a rack or anything more than some draws and a rope. Vitaliy,
That's really what I was trying to say. I think there were some pretextual reasons why some of the crack lines were bolted, but I think the main reason is the one you cited. The Gorge has always been a sport climbing venue and crack lines seemed like something of an afterthought, so no one really seemed to put up much of a fuss. It's not like someone retrobolting a well established trad line, though I suspect we're going to start seeing more examples of that in the future. They'll be put in under the guise of addressing some safety issue, but then there will be additional convenience anchors. Then people will start saying that if you're OK with those bolts, then there's no reason not to make it safe by adding more bolts. All of these arguments have been made to successfully add bolts when people did just fine for years without them.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
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Last time I did Double Cross it had four bolts and felt super run out.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 24, 2014 - 05:40pm PT
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1st pitch of Beggars Buttress.
Bolted crack.
Me Dale Bard thought we were doing the first ascent on that day but Dale got sick half way up where we found Chappy and Warblers pack when they bailed from there.
But there were no bolts on that 1st pitch for years until recent modern times ....
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Epic Magruff the bounty hunter
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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Some interesting geology in those cracks in the OP photos.
Perfect splitters, only a few inches deep.
These cracks needed a little bit of brushing with the hilti and some bolts, other than that its was ready to go for a pink point burn.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 24, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
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They'll be put in under the guise of addressing some safety issue, but then there will be additional convenience anchors. Then people will start saying that if you're OK with those bolts, then there's no reason not to make it safe by adding more bolts. All of these arguments have been made to successfully add bolts when people did just fine for years without them.
I think it all depends on things like popularity of the climb and established 'laws' of the area. For example, do you think B-Y will get retro bolted soon? I don't. Will Farley in Tahoe get bolts because there were two fatalities on it? I don't think so. With popularity of the sport things like convenience anchors might be seen more often, but those are not always a bad thing (first 5 pitches of CPoF is a good example of well made convenience anchors, don't think anyone is complaining). Personally I believe installing a bolted anchor while removing rat nest of old slings and carabiners is actually a positive contribution to the climb. Removes garbage that spreads in the wilderness and does not irritate the eye (it is much harder to spot two bolts with a ring than a nest of slings around a horn.
Climb, have a good time, respect others and they will respect you.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Mar 24, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
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I'm confused. If the bolts are oK, why isn't using the crack off route?
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Dal Maxvill
Social climber
Illinois
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Mar 24, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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Good point. Why should a crack interfere with a good climb. Could the cracks be filled in with cement?
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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Mar 24, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
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if any of this ccrrrraaaapppppp was going on in the 80's
poser woulda had a fewperma drawshoveduptheir ass.
look how ol' turdskimmer was treated during his "ascent" of stigma.
i remember something about some potatos in a tail pipe?
how 'bout wings of steel...rope pulled,cut and deficated on.
total devolution.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Mar 24, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
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Bolting cracks is fairly lame, but ethics is so last generation, now generation me, just doesn't care.
That's not quite accurate Scott! Some of us do have a healthy respect for ethics and style. I haven't always though. Supertopo has been quite the resource for this young mentor-less climber.
It's tough to understand trad when you learn in a gym and all you see is bolts, and sport climbers.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol
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Mar 24, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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And the award for Best Route Name for a bolted crack goes to...
(drum roll, please...)
"Silence of the Cams," on Sonora Pass. Good route, and I guarantee you'll be glad to clip every bolt as the flake reverberates down to the belay ledge.
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bergbryce
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Mar 24, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
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Slip N' Slide, ORG. Whatever, it was still fun as $hit.
If these pics hurt your sensitive eyes, do not ever climb at El Potrero Chico.
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