KXL pipeline

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karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2014 - 12:55pm PT


Keystone XL will contribute dramatically to climate change. The State Department confirmed that tar sands fuel is up to 19% more greenhouse gas intensive than conventional fuel, and the tar sands industry admits that Keystone XL will lead to more tar sands production.

The total carbon pollution impacts of Keystone XL are the equivalent of putting 9 million cars on the road when considering the total emissions of tar sands and refining processes.

Contrary to claims made by supporters of the pipeline, the pipeline could end as many jobs as it creates with toxic spills in farmland or water resources.


http://act.350.org/letter/obama-keystone-frontpage/




rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
And isn't the oil going to be shipped to china..?
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
Contrary to claims made by supporters of the pipeline, the pipeline could end as many jobs as it creates with toxic spills in farmland or water resources.

There are plenty of excellent reasons to oppose the pipeline without having to resort to shrill BS arguments like this one. 350.org should know better.

Map of existing pipelines in the US (ogalalla aquifer highlighted):



And isn't the oil going to be shipped to china..?

Sort of... Canada wants to boost production with this pipeline and get it to the world market so that they can get the world price for it. Right now, they get sh#t for it.

PS...I don't get why this issue doesn't get more traction around here.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
All you GreenHouse folks need to take a chill pill....

or start walking.

And start paying $$$$$$$ in carbon taxes.

Mr. Prez Obama .... you are really screwed up in the head.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
You are not going to solve many problems by artificially increasing costs of supply. Infact you will make most problems worse.

The only solutions involve lower demand.

I'm for the Keystone pipeline. Because environmentally it's not a major issue in itself and it is a good project for people and the economy.

Want to make a difference and support a cause that can make a difference?

Get serious about Women's education and economic opportunities in underdeveloped nations. That will do more for global warming and the environment long term than anything else I have heard of.

BJ

climber
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
The amount of oil being shipped by rail car has drastically increased, along the the subsequent number of accidents. A lack of a pipeline won't stop the use or production of oil, and may in fact lead to more accidents.
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Mar 3, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
If the same money was invested into Clean Energy, it would create thousands of more Jobs, and a clean Future for everyone

Good On You Mr. President, Don't fold to the Corporate Fascists trying to pressure you for Corporate Greed.
The Only winners of this Pipeline are the Koch Brothers and the Alberta Oil Companies, they will make billions, and our gas price will not go down ONE CENT.
It's really not a win win situation.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Mar 3, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
^^^^
I couldn't agree with you more. I live in Alberta, gas will still be same price. Everyone here will have a hate on for you if you even mention how bad it is for the environment or we don't need it.
They say it will benefit me. How? i don't work in that sector so i won't be getting paid the huge, massive wages. Won't fix or sh**ty education system with tax breaks.
Nada!
Only for the fat cats and people in that job environment. I would like to see how it improves MY life in 5-10 years.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
All you GreenHouse folks need to take a chill pill....

or start walking.

And start paying $$$$$$$ in carbon taxes.

Mr. Prez Obama .... you are really screwed up in the head.

nice one guyman!

I like the start walking part
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 3, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
Let them eat cake!

John
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Mar 3, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
If those bastard Canadians think we are going to let them pump oil through out country sans extortion they are sadly mistaken. Just wait till we turn off the tap!

Partition may be the only way. Canada takes the Red States, we'll keep the blue.

DMT

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 3, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
This is knee jerk activism.

We currently use oil for almost all of our transportation needs. That isn't going to change any time soon. It makes little difference whether we get our oil from a Nigerian military dictatorship or the tar sands of Alberta. It is equally clean compared to the invisible emissions coming from your tailpipe. If those emissions were purple, people would get it, but they don't.

The aquifer part is a joke. Modern pipelines of this expense rarely leak, and for many decades the pipeline companies have had regular flights along their right of ways looking for anything amiss. Such as somebody building a house along the right of way, or a spill. We have oil pipelines all over our country. Yes, there are spills. It is a small amount. Nothing compared to what comes out of the tailpipes of every poster here.

Spills on land pipelines do not travel far. The notion that a pipeline will somehow pollute the Ogallala Aquifer is just a red herring. You should be asking about the constant spraying of pesticides and herbicides directly on top of that aquifer.

Have any of you Google Earthed what lies on top of the Ogallala Aquifer? Check it out. It is mainly center pivot irrigated crops, and the Aquifer is depleting far more rapidly than it is replenished.

Right now I am working in western Kansas. It is kind of like the moon. Every inch seems to be planted in crops. All of that short grass prairie and its ecosystem has been obliterated, and on top of that, we pay farmers direct subsidies. Not just a tax break. Actual checks from the Dept. of the Treasury.

I've been up here for a few weeks, and it is a tragedy. One of the only types of wildlife that I have seen are the ever present pheasants. They sure are pretty. Too bad that they come from Asia.

While you are admiring the lovely aquifer, you might tune in to a local AM station and listen to ads for genetically modified seed. Then you have all of the herbicides and pesticides which are applied in this quest to have a single species eco-system.

The Nebraska Sandhills are pretty, but a pipeline won't hurt it any more than a transmission line.

Get with the program and start fighting for a new, cleaner fuel. We are swimming in natural gas, but the fracking baloney is a distraction.

I've said it before, but the best way to help the environment is to cut your balls off or have your tubes tied.

I can't believe how far off we have gotten in the past thirty years. We all continue to use far more fuel than we need, and people think that riding a bike to work will help. It is importantly symbolic, but the per capita oil usage of even the cleanest American is far worse than your typical citizen of Bangledesh.

And we STILL pay farmers to use corn, one of the most valuable crops of all, to make ethanol, in a process that is useless. The red state farmers sure love the ethanol subsidy though.

Seriously. Just go look at the Aquifer on Google Earth.

edit: as per characters such as the Koch Brothers, they are indeed pretty evil dudes. They aren't into upstream operations (drilling and production). Their private empire is all downstream, and they aren't particularly liked by others in the oil industry as far as I can tell.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
Why don't they just have it go through Canada instead of trying to "help" us.
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
Because we dont want it in BC, and as far as I can tell it makes no sense to try and sell it to you either since the price per barrel in North America is too low.

They just want access to tide water, and now that the line from cushing to the coast is done? they are hoping to get to use it.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:42pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
The Alaskan pipeline has not had a single significant spill not caused by
a nutcase with a rifle. The only two significant ones were caused thusly
and only a couple of acres were affected. Building the KXL pipeline is
child's play compared to the AK and as long as they can keep drunk Dakotans
from shooting it there ain't gonna be any problems. This is a tempest in
a teapot.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
This is a tempest in a teapot.

No....it's not.

KXL is part of a larger pipeline network that would allow it's tarsands oil to get to world markets. The KXL part is just a "foot in the door" to help finance pipelines to the east and west of Canada and those markets. Leaking pipelines IS a BS issue, but the greater issue is NOT.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
Yeah, It is actually GOOD to have more pipelines,oil is good for everybody and make sure you do not ride a bike.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:26pm PT
There might well be geopolitical routes in sight for the KXL. Europe has no teeth in threatening sanctions against Russia unless they look to the west. Before its all over i could see pipelines going east, west, as well as south. Grow up boys and girls, this is how the "real world" works.

Base, with rhetoric like you posted above how long can you feel safe in your scalp on this forum?
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