BLM shoot and kill a man in Red Rocks (with witness video)

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STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:13am PT
You don't know sh!t about cops.
Werner, I know enough about cops to give me an opinion about them. In my youth I was arrested by them, harassed by them and even helped by them. Unfortunately I've experienced more of the former than the latter. I doubt a police officer will ever save my life or be there when I really need them such as in a home invasion. I will take care of that one myself.
I believe in self reliance, self respect and respect of others. If that is something you disagree with, then we would be best to avoid each other.
John M

climber
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:30am PT
Yes the IDIOT was showing massive respect for others out in the middle of the road


ron.. he could have mental health issues.


I know that its hard to be a cop. I respect the work that they do. What I have a hard time with is the way the highway patrol approached the scene. A possibly dangerous and loose person and he leaves his vehicle running and open. And then can't stop the person from entering it without shooting him.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:46am PT
you can not generalize about the cops,

too many of those fuzzy little shitheads to do that,
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:49am PT
Obviously this guys was loaded on something or in some manic state. I'm sure you and I would agree, Ron, that if this guy broke into our house, deadly force would be warranted. But in this situation there was plenty of room for this guy to roam, they had the choice to not engage him.
This whole thing was tragic and could've been handled differently, but it wasn't. What do we learn from it?
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:27am PT
I'm guilty of that!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:45am PT
I'm sure you and I would agree, Ron, that if this guy broke into our house, deadly force would be warranted.

What if he was walking out in front of cars, threatening the safety of innocent bystanders, and threatening bikers? Would intervention be warranted? And if intervention resulted in the suspect resisting and trying to get into bystander's cars, would that warrant a firmer touch? And if that firmer touch involved tasers and pepper spray that didn't slow the man down and he went for a gun, would that warrant a psychological evaluation and a comprehensive treatment plan?

Face the facts, you are letting your attitude towards cops cloud your perception of reality here (and likely many other situations where you see 1/2 the story). Nobody said it wasn't tragic... for fuksake, someone died, that is horrible. But to paint it as just a bunch of power hungry trigger happy meat heads is despicable and shows a serious detachment from reality.
Robb

Social climber
It's Ault or Nunn south of Shy Annie
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:04am PT
He did get the "comprehensive treatment plan".

PS: Go do ride alongs for a couple of monthes on Friday and Saturday nights in Reno.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 22, 2014 - 11:13am PT
My new UTS 15 has 2 magazine tubes and a selector lever so I can load lethal buckshot and slugs in one and then load the other tube with less than lethal rubber stars and buck.

I'm still learning the weapon, but it allows one to shoot a recalcitrant noncompliant offender in the lower legs with rubber in order to get him on the ground, but at the flip of the lever one can go to lethal rounds if he produces a weapon.

I bet more and more cops will carry these versatile shotguns.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Feb 22, 2014 - 11:15am PT
How do you like the UTS? I've been thinking about getting one. vs. KSG?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 22, 2014 - 11:56am PT
Speaking only from the other side, that is, I won't speak to the police side: but STEEVE is right on the money that blacks have different experiences than whites with cops. Usually they have extensive stories too. Ask ANY black person. I've never met one who didn't have that belief although there must be some. I've just never met that person yet. Knowing that they will be treated different can and often does make them react to police differently.

Folks here all bring their personal baggage to the discussion. None of us really knows what occurred in this instance. A grand jury will collect all the evidence they can find, and as there were plenty of non-police eyewitness and video, perhaps some we have not yet seen, the truth will come out.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
Did I just read all of Ron's last post?

Yes, I did.

Well presented Ron!

I cannot believe it.

Did someone hyjack your account? ;-)
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
tooth,

pricey even without the $200 paint job, but I recommend the light/laser combo, and I also got the breaching crown.

I've only shot it a few times so I would have to say the jury is still out, but it seems to be a REALLY hot ticket. I mean, hell, you can pump it 14 times without feeding it. It really can handle a riot!
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
In reining in the Seattle Police, I believe they've been instructed by the Feds to shoot to disable when possible, rather than to kill. That probably would have worked fine in this situation, and has been working so far in Seattle I think.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
Funny the guys who are down on cops are from Humbolt and Santa Cruz.

Weed head alert..... paranoia big destroy ya.

Cozgrove is off on his demographics, I never have smoked "inhaled" the stuff.

Actually, he is right, because a lot of neighbors, and some friends are occasional users. It does go with the territory.

Cops are shooting people to often, They operate by training and procedure, as they should. The increase in unnecessary killing of civilians is because of a mentality that has changed. Watch out when the thinking has become "us" against them.

The protest in Egypt, Ukraine, and Venezuela are rooted in the disparity and separation we have escalating here, in a new hybrid version of the same old way people have thought about and treated each other since the beginning of society.

The police are distancing themselves from the people, and they are not alone in this at all. You can see this "separation" everywhere increasing at all points... It is the sign of corruption, an unstoppable natural human process. Business, government, religion, damn, even local school teachers and nuclear scientists giving standard tests are doing it. Letting that sweet but icky unethical decision be made for the betterment of number one.

History says blood will have to flow to reset society, So I think we may all take a moment to call ourselves stupid for repeating it. But we will repeat it. The wrongs will be righted because the common person now understands they an equal right to define fairness.

The police should be brave, well trained, serving and protecting the people. Are the laws(regulations) or is a developing culture starting to say otherwise? Yes, so action will have to be taken to change it. We need our law enforcement for the people.

STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Nice comment Ron. I appreciate your point of view.
The crux of the issue for me is that I wish it was true frontier justice paid out by ordinary citizens. It would have been easier to swallow instead of the incident that occurred that is representative of a system of comply or die. The fact that "professional" law enforcement officers acted in a such a way, that I view as unprofessional and unorganized scares the sh!t out of me. These guys have a badge, gun and the law on their side and are rarely convicted for wrong doing. They have a license to kill, period. And there are stories all over the news of police acting presumptuous and killing innocent people or acting in fear and shooting wildly into crowds to take down one person and in the process hit innocent bystanders http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-square-shooting-nypd-officers-shoot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/all-9-empire-state-building-shooting-injuries-by-police/
Police do not protect or serve. They are unfortunate pawns in a rigged system.
I have no doubt that police officers are just like you or me and have families, wants, needs and believe in what they do. I don't believe in what they do or represent when they put on a badge and gun.
Ron, you're maybe a more reasonable man than I and your comment was thoughtful, but I don't need cops. They serve the "Law' not me.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
History says blood will have to flow to reset society, So I think we may all take a moment to call ourselves stupid for repeating it. But we will repeat it.

Rudyard said it best.

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
but STEEVE is right on the money that blacks have different experiences than whites with cops.

So you and STEEVE honestly think the outcome would have been different if the guy had acted the exact same way, but was white instead of black?

You people are fuking ridiculous.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:17pm PT
Maybe yall can find more recent data, and I encourage you to look, but just off the top of my google: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/ph98.txt

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
The North Hollywood shootout for instance, where not one officer fled the scene for his or her safety. They stood steadfast against gunmen with all the modern warfare they could carry and wear. Against overwhelming odds for at that time, AR style weaponry wasnt common among LEOs. There is a movie about that incident which is VERY ACCURATE in detail. Suddenly the LosAngeles police dept became the HEROES. But i promise that you would be just as dead from one perp shooting you as two armed with fully auto weapons. The .40 caliber hand gun was developed specifically after a Florida FBI shoot out against two armed men, that had been responsible for cold blooded murders of many innocent victims. The 9mm rounds which both had been shot with did not stop them and they ended up killing two and wounding many other FBI agents.. So thats how they would handle WAR.

Ron, this is an aside of the OP, I agree with your position on that.

However, I live a couple of miles from the site of the above shootout, and I actually treated some of the cops.

I thought their behavior was heroic.

UNTIL they had the gunmen down.

Then they proceeded to execute one by not allowing the paramedics, located 100 feet away, to provide care. He bled to death laying on the ground for nearly an hour.

That was an execution of an unarmed man by cop.

Plain and simple.
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
Ron, thanks for keeping "prick" cops in check.

I remember an experience I had when I was in the Marine Corps when I was trying to get back to Camp Pendleton from Tijuana before I was AWOL. Needless to say it was a rough weekend. I had no money, no vehicle, I had blood all over the front of my shirt and I was walking along the freeway around Chula Vista when an CHP officer stopped me and asked me my story. He listened, laughed and gave me a ride all the way back to camp, 90 minutes out of his way. He was a Marine, that helped, but he was also a cop and I remember him and the nice thing he did for me. I suppose if we had more experiences like that with cops...who knows.
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