Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 12:45am PT
|
cop should have not had is car so that somebody could get in,
carry a frickin net and just toss it over the guy,
wait til guy actually gets the rifle out of the rack before you pop him,
is not the rifle locked up? if not it should be,
how hard is it to take control of this situation?
how would that cop perform in say, a real war somewhere?
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 01:29am PT
|
"how would that cop perform in say, a real war somewhere?"
In a real war it would have been over the first time he tried to get into one of the other stopped cars. Shoot first ask questions later. Depending on the rules of engagement of course....
|
|
Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 01:36am PT
|
pigs suck.
|
|
MisterE
climber
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 01:41am PT
|
You never can tell what may happen when a guy is this jacked up on who-knows-what. "Multiple taser deployments" that don't work seems like it would make one wary of the effectiveness of other measures, especially when it is 2 BLM cops...
It seems legit.
PS Hey Jeff, you and Burchey are gold and silver in the bannination awards...
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 02:04am PT
|
If he's within reach of the gun, I'm popping him. Nothing wrong with that.
But causing the situation to devolve to that point was piss-poor performance on the part of the cops.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 09:46am PT
|
And all because he was walking erratically down a road? Yeah, he was jacked up on something, but due to unwarranted LEO involvement, he's dead.
Realistically, society won't miss him much?
LEOs should have had the vehicle secured, and rifle rack locked. Unless he had the gun in his hands, he did not constitute a legitimate threat to their lives.
I really don't have much sympathy for either the victim of the shooting or the LEOs; it escalated beyond control due to either drugs, physical illness, or mental unbalance.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
|
Wow, the stupid taco never ceases to amaze! I knew there were ignorant people who frequent this site, but this thread is priceless:
multiple taser deployments, pepper spray and a baton, all in an effort to remove him from the roadway, where cyclists reported seeing a man walking in and out of traffic (i.e. threatening the safety of others).
I'm sure the LEOs could have tried harder to reason with him.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
|
This is very sad for all concerned.
It's apparent that D'Andre was whacked out. Possibly mentally ill, possibly on drugs, or both.
It appears that the LEOs made a lot of reasonable attempts to control the situation.
LEOs should have had the vehicle secured, and rifle rack locked. Unless he had the gun in his hands, he did not constitute a legitimate threat to their lives.
I really don't have much sympathy for either the victim of the shooting or the LEOs; it escalated beyond control due to either drugs, physical illness, or mental unbalance. The preliminary report says the weapons in the highway patrol vehicle were in their safety rack.
The door of the vehicle was wide open when he was shot, they could have shot him in any part of his body. D'Andre was apparently not armed.
Eight bullets and a fatality seems disproportionate. If he'd actually gotten a live weapon in his hands that would be different.
Presumably the truth will out.
Like so many cases out here in the western US (I can't say about the eastern part), it seems as if the police are not well trained to deal with an unruly and non-compliant suspect. Reference Meserle in the Fruitvale BART station, several San Jose police killings of unarmed men and women in the past ten years.
He never should have gotten his hands on the patrol car. Shooting him the legs or arse would've stopped him (easy for me to say). I'm sure the LEOs were trying NOT to shoot him until the very end.
It certainly didn't help that the idiot tourons in cars hadn't gotten the hell outta there. You can see 2 or 3 vehicles turning around and driving away afterwards. The LEOs also had to worry about their safety.
As someone mentioned earlier, nearly all American LEOs are now trained to shoot to kill. As a result, I am always on edge in the presence of an armed officer. Even when I know him/her.
In the UK for comparison, regular officers are specifically not provided firearms. They are well trained to take down even large, strong, unruly people. Only special officers are allowed to carry guns, they have to check them out from the station and check them back in at the end of their shift. And they DO shoot to kill, when they have to. A friend of mine is an ex special weapons officer from London and we've talked about this. In other countries the police are respected and not feared by the populace. It used to be that way here.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
|
Not enough info to judge, but take it from me, Clark County cops don't fool around. Many of them can't even spell fool around.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
|
I jaywalked right in front of a cop once. He pulled into my girlfriend's coffee shop (my destination) with lights and attitude blazing. We talked for a couple minutes, I told him the crossing signal was broken and I simply took my opportunity to cross when there was a break in traffic. He came back 10 minutes later, after testing the signal himself, and apologized for "embarrassing" me in front of my friends.
In Clark County I got pulled over for doing 15 or 20 mph over. The stop ended with me and the cop back at his car looking at a hiking map, with him showing us the best trails for a nice afternoon walk.
I came around a corner doing 60 with a AZ trooper sitting under the 35mph sign. I pulled over, apologized, and left with a ticket for 10 over.
I've had numerous interactions with cops from MT to AZ, CA to NH.
I have a hard time believing it is always the "as#@&%e" cop's fault... especially when only the last half of the interactions are shown.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
|
I know for a fact that police routinely and blatantly lie in their written reports to support their positions, and even manufacture evidence if they need to do so.
Judges are reluctant to acknowledge this fact because to do so would acknowledge that it's all a farce and it would lead a complete collapse of the American justice system and the economy.
But do not be deceived, all police are as corrupt as any gangster.
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
|
Cops and criminals both put great stock in being respected and can't let it go if they aren't
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
|
Not ignorant and not trolling
I know this as fact from a long life of experience
I stand by my statement 100%
I would be will to change "all police are as corrupt as any gangster" to "99% of police are as corrupt as any gangster."
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 05:59pm PT
|
I also find your statement really disappointing Sierra Ledge Rat. You must of had some really bad experiences to support your feelings. I'm glad I have had mostly positive experiences with LEO's.
Erik
(I'm also surprised to be agreeing with Coz :-))
|
|
STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
|
But do not be deceived, all police are as corrupt as any gangster
Agree. The only thing that separates cops and criminals is the "LAW".
They pumped eight rounds into this guy. These f$%kers were lazy, unimaginative and panicked.
He was in the middle of the desert, on foot with no weapons. They should have left him alone.
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 06:18pm PT
|
"They should have left him alone." ????
To be hit by a car? I don't think the BLM LEO's just happened show up..... They were called in.
I'm also not saying they couldn't have handled it better. The LEO's are most likely second guessing themselves over and over about the whole incident.
|
|
STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
|
Yes, left him alone. I'm able to avoid wildlife while driving. Treat him as if he was wildlife.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
|
(edit) What's up with the vicious attacks on Fatrad? No wonder he left the site. If my memory serves he left voluntarily. He did not get kicked off.
I agree Labrat.
Okay, I have been resisting chiming in. This may be off the topic of a man dying, and I do not have all the facts of the 'event' that this thread is about. So I will hold off on that one. However, condolences to the deceased's family.
Okay, Fattrad has come back as Pacifico. The (nine) comments under his new avatar so far on the Taco Stand by him have not been that inflammatory, I have seen/read much worst from several Supertopians. Much worst. Some hateful and spiteful posts by some people. In my eyes far worse that anything Jeff has posted. But of course that is just my judgment. Okay, so he is full of himself, especially as a former part-time LEO, however I do not think he is alone in being pompous on this forum.
Yes, he was irritating as Fatrrad and I wish he'd quit with TheEvilOne (a dead give away Jeff, but then I believe you knew that).
I know Jeff from this forum when he was willing to help me when my mother died in January 2007, offering to pick me up at SF airport (I had brothers who did that, but thanks Jeff for your intentions). I met up with him for a beer in Creektown (WC). He appears to be a decent fellow.
So, his account as Pacifico has been deactivated… by Jeff? Or the moderator? I do not know. But some of the BS I have read on this forum is far worse than anything he has written.
Okay, I realize this is not the topic (I did not want to start a new thread). But darn it. Some of you people have short memories and thin skin. If Jeff has learned not to be so inflammatory, then I welcome him back in to the fold.
Jeff and I disagree on certain issues, and perhaps agree on a few. I am a liberal he is not. Big deal, not. Also, maybe he is not a big-time climber, but how many of us can say that? He is still a mountaineer in his own way. I am lucky that I can get out once a week now that Jennie and I have moved to the sticks. At least in Dalkey, I could be climbing just about everyday, now I do not. Does that make me less of a climber?
If Jeff/Fattrad/Pacifico can follow ST protocol (whatever that is, and some of us break that "protocol" from time to time), then so be it. Howdy Jeff. I welcome you back. Just keep your shorts on.
Just my two cents worth, or in Ireland two cent (the euro does not use the plural cents).
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
|
The real problem: it's 99% of the LEOs that give the rest a bad name.
Also may be applied to lawyers at your discretion.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!