BLM shoot and kill a man in Red Rocks (with witness video)

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 284 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
BJ

climber
Feb 20, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
And?????? A tragic mistake, I'm sure the LEO has nightmares every night and, there's no such thing has "having your record cleared", it stays on the record as a major screw forever, forget promotions. Lst month in the Bay Area, one BART police officer accidently shot and killed another BART officer, a huge accident.

OMG! Kill somebody because your a moron cop, and you have that in your file as a major screw up forever! Oh no, that's terrible! And who says the police aren't held accountable.


Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
This all could have been avoided through disarming the police. The victim would have reached for a lollipop in the gingerbread mobile instead of an AR15 and been completely pacified.
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
I don't like people who want to become LEOs, bill collectors, repossession people, prison guards, and the like. Just not my kind of people. I'm generally on the side of the people saying the cops did another bad shoot and handled another situation terribly. And, that will be the same here. haha

However, the characters that made the video and commented along with it... those guys I don't agree with. Especially the redneck justice part. IMO, those cops did not want to hurt that guy at all. IMO, those cops are tortured souls right now going over what they could have done to take the guy down. Their egos are tortured at the very least. IMO, one strong guy was just too much for the three of them. Bad training and standing around hoping for the best is what got them. They just weren't ready for this guy, IMO. They'll be thinking about that for a long time, I think.

You know... even Batman was taken down by a simple net. A simple net is used easily to subdue the scariest of all animals, an angry housecat. haha Why taser and pepperspray and beat with a baton? If you don't have two or more officers handy you could make a gun that shot the net out over the subject. Hold on... let me google this before I post to find out if it is a bad idea...

Well... there you go... some smarter guys than the LEOs in that video are already using one:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1997-10-02/news/1997275131_1_west-baltimore-police-knife
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
All of this "treating with kindness" stuff is what got us here in there first place. The guy had been bothering passing bicyclists somehow. Then the LEOs show up and TRY to talk, spray and taze him into submission. If a TAZER wont work,, well~~~

And Sure they could have jumped him gang style and appear on the evening news with a Rodney King sort of statement to follow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you dont. This is an indicator of a dwindling respect for LEOs in general. And even worse a disrespect of their available force. If im told to co operate by armed LEOS,, im gonna. If its over non sense, the courts can later decide. They guy OBVIOUSLY wasnt going to co operate and somehow managed to thwart a tazer, then jumped into what was no doubt a running vehicle with arms in it. I would have squeezed the trigger too.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
F*#k you fatty. You were an LEO like a janitor at NASA is astronaut. This site forum has enough issues without a delusional and inflammatory asshat like you being in the mix. The sooner you get shown to the door again, the better this place will be!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
Feb 20, 2014 - 10:58am PT
" 20 years ago, we didn't have people fried on drugs that make them superman strong and impervious to rational thouhgts [sic].."

Yes we did. The PCP cliche is from at least 20 years ago.

Amen! PCP (aka Angel Dust) has been around a lot longer than that, and what it does to a person seems impossible to those who have never experienced it. The amount of force needed to subdue a dusted suspect makes the killing of Rasputin seem like the most minimal of force. If a suspect is dusted, good luck getting the suspect cuffed.

Yes, cops make mistakes. Anyone involved with law or law enforcement knows that. The knee-jerk reaction of some, however, that all cops are wrong, and are possessed with superhuman abilities to determine in a split second when deadly force is needed, strikes me as even more unrealistic than those who say law enforcement is always right. As several have mentioned, neither the film nor the article provide sufficient information for those not directly involved to make an intelligent decision. All we know for sure is that, as Philo said, someone died but not from natural causes.

John
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Feb 20, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
he knee-jerk reaction of some, however, that all cops are wrong, and are possessed with superhuman abilities to determine in a split second when deadly force is needed, strikes me as even more unrealistic than those who say law enforcement is always right.

Seriously? Well that's your internal bias showing itself off, then.

DMT
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
You're correct, DMT. My bias is that all cops are right is closer to the truth than all cops are wrong. My bias is also that both propositions are unrealistic.

John
Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 05:18pm PT



All of this "treating with kindness" stuff is what got us here in there first place. The guy had been bothering passing bicyclists somehow. Then the LEOs show up and TRY to talk, spray and taze him into submission. If a TAZER wont work,, well~~~

And Sure they could have jumped him gang style and appear on the evening news with a Rodney King sort of statement to follow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you dont. This is an indicator of a dwindling respect for LEOs in general. And even worse a disrespect of their available force. If im told to co operate by armed LEOS,, im gonna. If its over non sense, the courts can later decide. They guy OBVIOUSLY wasnt going to co operate and somehow managed to thwart a tazer, then jumped into what was no doubt a running vehicle with arms in it. I would have squeezed the trigger too.

Its got nothing to do with "treating with kindness" or dwindling respect for LEO's. You don't know what happened any better than people who are ready to string up the cops. Lack of co-operation or submission is not a reason to escalate and/or kill someone. Maybe he was mentally ill or having a reaction to medication. You don't know. What I do know is that there has to be a better way of dealing with these types of situations instead of someone ending up dead.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 20, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
Same could be said of you Ncclimber. This part you projected in particular which you say, and I quote: "This site forum has enough issues without a delusional and inflammatory asshat like you being in the mix." Not just because you post angry attacks with swear words, which is more than is said of those you attack. Although there is that of course.

Lighten up will you.

NCclimber said:
"F*#k you fatty. You were an LEO like a janitor at NASA is astronaut. This site forum has enough issues without a delusional and inflammatory asshat like you being in the mix. The sooner you get shown to the door again, the better this place will be!"
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
The only purpose for police is for social control and protection of property. They are not here to serve or protect you. That is a myth. If it were true, this guy would still be alive.
You can't have people disobeying cops and getting off lightly or alive, because that would send the wrong message to the public. Cops are militant and inappropriate for a true civilized society.
The dude was in the middle of the dessert on foot. They should have just left him alone. He wasn't a true threat to anyone other than himself.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 20, 2014 - 06:05pm PT
Couchmaster said:
...Lighten up will you.

What you said is valid. I deserved that.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 20, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
Back in the 'good old days' or really more physical times, they would'a whacked him with a billy club in the shins or on the shoulders until he "became cooperative."

Excessive use of force seems self-evident here. Especially since it was lethal force. Of course there will be "an official investigation," and in the end simply swept under the rug with an "official reprimand" or some such BS!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
The *official investigation* will declare shooting the dude when he went for the rifle in the police cruiser was the right call.

BUT what will be left out is any criticism of the piss-poor handling of a simple encounter that led up to shooting the dude.

Any high school linebacker could have tackled the guy. Any high school wrestler could have pinned him. Once tackled or pinned, it's a simple matter to apply the cuffs.
John M

climber
Feb 20, 2014 - 06:41pm PT
Any high school linebacker could have tackled the guy. Any high school wrestler could have pinned him. Once tackled or pinned, it's a simple matter to apply the cuffs.

no way. If someone doesn't give in, then it can be very difficult to cuff them. Most people experience a person giving in. You fight them, you beat them, they give up and allow themselves to be handled.

But this guy wasn't giving up. He was pepper sprayed and tazed and still did not give up. That makes for a very different and difficult situation. Add in that cops are now afraid of blood transfer, and can't use choke holds, and it can get very difficult to restrain someone. Especially if that person is strong, is amped up on adrenaline or other drugs, and or is mentally ill.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Feb 20, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Police should only have to deal with reasonable people who take the usual cues and submit to verbal commands and detention. All others will be given a lollipop and bus tickets to San Francisco mental institutions.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
Back in the 'good old days' or really more physical times, they would'a whacked him with a billy club in the shins or on the shoulders until he "became cooperative."

Excessive use of force seems self-evident here. Especially since it was lethal force. Of course there will be "an official investigation," and in the end simply swept under the rug with an "official reprimand" or some such BS!

Back in the good old days, attempting to billy club someone on PCP would most likely result in the billy club being in the hands of the suspect. Excessive use of force is not self-evident here. It's certainly possible, but not established by a long shot.

John
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 20, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
John-

My only reference is my experience as a medical X-ray tech for 3 years in the Army. I was frequently called upon to get X-rays of the miscreants after "being subdued." The MPs were pretty good at dealing with this kind of behavior, and woe unto anyone who fuked back at them. Their orders were to NEVER hit anyone in the head, but anywhere else was...kinda OK. The "powers that be" didn't mind a few broken bones along the way. The really prime way they had was beating HARD on the shins. Then step 2 was on the shoulder blades or breaking both collar bones with the nightstick. This was OK since the guy was already on the way to Leavenworth. Yeah, it was kinda' brutal but nobody died in the process.

I'm really against application of lethal force unless the perp has killed someone or attempted to do so...
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
I am always amazed how everybody sees situations so differently and I wonder when the police radio transcripts and recordings will be out. Maybe the police cruiser had a dash cam?

Has anybody here been hit with pepper spray or a taser? Just the CS gas that I experienced in the military was quite debilitating. Pepper spray and taser are much worse. No way I'm resisting after that. He must have been out of it in some way.....


It is sad that the man died.

(edit) What's up with the vicious attacks on Fatrad? No wonder he left the site. If my memory serves he left voluntarily. He did not get kicked off.
franky

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
There is quite a bit of monday morning quarterbacking in this thread. You can't tell anything from that video.

An interesting thing that is worth noticing is how the people who were probably the best witnesses to what happened just drove off after the shooting, through the crime scene no less!
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