BLM shoot and kill a man in Red Rocks (with witness video)

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Messages 161 - 180 of total 284 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
Giving a bully hall monitor a hat, badge and a gun does not make them competent, reasoned or professional.

It just makes them fashionably dangerous.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
For one thing, issuing assault rifles to BLM Rangers is itself preposterous. The correct LEO weapon is a SHOTGUN! With correct training, this whole incident might have resulted in the perp/victim/whatthefukever having his foot or even blown feet blown into so much garbage, or even worse. Lethal force is what I'm railing and raving about...given the weaponry the LEOs are given these days, it's about the only option!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
Brokedown,, hunters and shooters in the woods certainly have high powered rifles with them, and most shooting partys these days will have AR or AK weaponry with them.

The very reason ARs are standard in many patrol rigs: North hollywood shootout.

The very reason the .40 caliber was invented- the FBI Florida shootout.

Things have changed since the BIg Red 1....

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
Ohh the Irony Ron The IRONY!
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
How many here have ever held a person at gunpoint?

Thought so...

I have several times with trespassers on my ranch during hunting season. Yep. They were armed, too.

My usual line of questioning: "Did you know that you were trespassing on Private land?" Most of the time they'll be very embarrassed and offer apology. If they already have killed an antelope or deer, I ask them if I should call the Game Warden. This is normally without any "flashing" of my pump shotgun, but frequently carrying (holstered) a 9 mm pistol.

I also inform them of my hunting policy which allows hunting upon payment of an access fee ($125 per license, valid for the entirety of the season), and that all they needed do was call at the house. Most of the times it's been a no problem resolution; I accept an apology and away they go, and in the case of having killed an animal--collecting my fees.

One individual chose to argue about the land ownership, ranting that he was on BLM land, and not private. I then confronted him with the "big, bad Winchester" 12 gauge and ordered him to place his rifle on the ground while I called the Sheriff. I made him sit on the ground about 20 feet away from his rifle and called both Game Warden and Sheriff. End of problem.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Yeah, philo, Mr. Irony.

You're not anti-jewish, you're just anti-Israel.

And you never do anything wrong as long as you can manage to sweep it under the carpet and un-remember it.

pfft
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Ill check that Brokedown..

I have. And that includes USFS and personal time.

I have had standoffs with crazed ranchers that cant even speak the language.

Ive had standoffs with drunken yeehaws and you NEVER know about them.

Myself and CHP and Alpine County served a FED warrant in an Indian colony against a family KNOWN for extreme mayhem. And the high powered weaponry was everywhere.


philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
Dude! Now Rodger that totally rocks. And I know that several posters had their heads explode. But that is totally appropriate given the set of circumstances you were involved with.
I think I would have done much the same. I just draw the line on some right to pack weaponry into movie theaters and such.
But I also agree that this use of "lethal force" was questionable.


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
"We need more Andy Griffith and less Barney Fife."

Pretty spot on in this case, elsewhere it's becoming increasingly "More Andy Griffith, less SEAL team 6"
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
Barney Fife carried a gun and one round of ammo in his shirt pocket.

That might be a bit much for some rangers.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
I see some here think there isnt a need for LEOS in the wildlands.

Funny that a rock trundling incident in the UTAH park area garnished such a fevered reaction to the scout masters- with all manner of THREATS issued their way. So it seems human welfare doesnt garnish that same reaction.

I reckon it was the bicycle people who were at fault- they shouldnt have felt threatened by the poor little hitchhiker nor should they have reported him. Just like that traffic that he was making swerve to avoid his dumb self in the middle of the road.

And how many bodies have been discovered in that area over the years? We are talking about JUST OUTSIDE of VEGAS..The capitol of capitol offenses in the state.


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
Yes Ron, that is exactly what everyone thinks. Since they used excessive force on this one guy, there should be no backcountry LEOs at all, anywhere. You pretty much nailed it. Good job.

Credit: Braunini

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:39pm PT
Ok,, then they shouldnt be armed? What is exactly, the message.?

That they should have used a shotgun on him? (Brokedowns reference)

Would a shotgun at close range be any less lethal than a 9mm or AR .223?


Or should they have started beating him - and remember the guy SHOOK OFF MULTPILT TAZER DEPLOYMENTS - that in and of itself is a WONDER in my book. I voluntarily took a shock to see what it was about. Nearly shyt myself, and couldnt move. Couldnt talk, couldnt THINK. That guy took multiples..










Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
Yes, with rubber buckshot.



edit: Ron , you are supposed to add "edit" when you edit and add.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
Shotgun with beanbags

Or a baton to the nuts as previously mentioned

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
am worried about how readily the LEOs resorted to lethal force. Yes.

Readily... only after multiple taser shots, pepper spray, and batons.

trying to "subdue" an individual without sufficient force available

If multiple taser shots, pepper spray, and batons isn't sufficient force... what do you suggest they try next time? Oh, right, broken knee caps. As pointed out before, there is a huge difference between drunk soldiers and nut jobs who shake off multiple tasers, pepper spray, and baton smacks and still put up a fight.

How many here have ever held a person at gunpoint?

I've been held at gun point, more than once. I never forced the situation(s) and I never got shot. It is called sanity. Going for an officer's gun... no matter WHAT the situation... is not sane and is a direct threat to the life of the officer and everyone in the vicinity. Nobody forced the fool to go for the gun... NOBODY.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
Sigh! I'm making this (honest!) my final comment:

A shotgun can be used in a non-lethal manner a priori to blasting the malefactor in either the face or chest. Granted, the "recipient" of some OOO buckshot will definitely be in some violent pain and discomfort. Prison guards are taught to fire a first blast at the ground in front of the target , depending on the ricochets to wound; second blast at knee level, and only if the target persists--center of mass.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
I still say there isn't enough info, but obviously there is enough for many to rush to judgement.

A sad way to end one's life any way you slice it.

People are gonna play Coulda Woulda Shoulda with this for years.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
Has anyone else here been tazed voluntarily?


It is UNBELIEVABLE that multiple tazer deployments were shook off by ANYONE no matter what they were on. And you can bet that is exactly what the officers also thought at that time. They, not having hours to contemplate, analyze and scrutinize. They had but SECONDS to react when the perp jumped in the NHP rig going for the gun after yelling he was going to KILL them.

They had exhausted the NON LETHAL options my friends.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
This whole discourse is making me sound like a bleeding heart liberal---which I'm not! My BIG concern is the escalation of violence BY our LEOs who are supposed to "Protect and Serve." They. Aren't.
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