BLM shoot and kill a man in Red Rocks (with witness video)

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Messages 141 - 160 of total 249 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
Werner? A Stupid American? Bwahahahaha!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Ron, where did you get that from? S t r e t c h i n g?

I at least never intimated such a stupid notion. One of my best old buddies is the Game Warden in one of the largest most rugged regions in Colorado. Ive been with him on night patrols and YES he needs a gun.

The RRRambos however not so much.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
Giving a bully hall monitor a hat, badge and a gun does not make them competent, reasoned or professional.

It just makes them fashionably dangerous.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
For one thing, issuing assault rifles to BLM Rangers is itself preposterous. The correct LEO weapon is a SHOTGUN! With correct training, this whole incident might have resulted in the perp/victim/whatthefukever having his foot or even blown feet blown into so much garbage, or even worse. Lethal force is what I'm railing and raving about...given the weaponry the LEOs are given these days, it's about the only option!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
Ohh the Irony Ron The IRONY!
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
How many here have ever held a person at gunpoint?

Thought so...

I have several times with trespassers on my ranch during hunting season. Yep. They were armed, too.

My usual line of questioning: "Did you know that you were trespassing on Private land?" Most of the time they'll be very embarrassed and offer apology. If they already have killed an antelope or deer, I ask them if I should call the Game Warden. This is normally without any "flashing" of my pump shotgun, but frequently carrying (holstered) a 9 mm pistol.

I also inform them of my hunting policy which allows hunting upon payment of an access fee ($125 per license, valid for the entirety of the season), and that all they needed do was call at the house. Most of the times it's been a no problem resolution; I accept an apology and away they go, and in the case of having killed an animal--collecting my fees.

One individual chose to argue about the land ownership, ranting that he was on BLM land, and not private. I then confronted him with the "big, bad Winchester" 12 gauge and ordered him to place his rifle on the ground while I called the Sheriff. I made him sit on the ground about 20 feet away from his rifle and called both Game Warden and Sheriff. End of problem.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Yeah, philo, Mr. Irony.

You're not anti-jewish, you're just anti-Israel.

And you never do anything wrong as long as you can manage to sweep it under the carpet and un-remember it.

pfft
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
Dude! Now Rodger that totally rocks. And I know that several posters had their heads explode. But that is totally appropriate given the set of circumstances you were involved with.
I think I would have done much the same. I just draw the line on some right to pack weaponry into movie theaters and such.
But I also agree that this use of "lethal force" was questionable.


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
"We need more Andy Griffith and less Barney Fife."

Pretty spot on in this case, elsewhere it's becoming increasingly "More Andy Griffith, less SEAL team 6"
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
Barney Fife carried a gun and one round of ammo in his shirt pocket.

That might be a bit much for some rangers.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
Yes Ron, that is exactly what everyone thinks. Since they used excessive force on this one guy, there should be no backcountry LEOs at all, anywhere. You pretty much nailed it. Good job.

Credit: Braunini

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
Yes, with rubber buckshot.



edit: Ron , you are supposed to add "edit" when you edit and add.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
Shotgun with beanbags

Or a baton to the nuts as previously mentioned

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
am worried about how readily the LEOs resorted to lethal force. Yes.

Readily... only after multiple taser shots, pepper spray, and batons.

trying to "subdue" an individual without sufficient force available

If multiple taser shots, pepper spray, and batons isn't sufficient force... what do you suggest they try next time? Oh, right, broken knee caps. As pointed out before, there is a huge difference between drunk soldiers and nut jobs who shake off multiple tasers, pepper spray, and baton smacks and still put up a fight.

How many here have ever held a person at gunpoint?

I've been held at gun point, more than once. I never forced the situation(s) and I never got shot. It is called sanity. Going for an officer's gun... no matter WHAT the situation... is not sane and is a direct threat to the life of the officer and everyone in the vicinity. Nobody forced the fool to go for the gun... NOBODY.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
Sigh! I'm making this (honest!) my final comment:

A shotgun can be used in a non-lethal manner a priori to blasting the malefactor in either the face or chest. Granted, the "recipient" of some OOO buckshot will definitely be in some violent pain and discomfort. Prison guards are taught to fire a first blast at the ground in front of the target , depending on the ricochets to wound; second blast at knee level, and only if the target persists--center of mass.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
I still say there isn't enough info, but obviously there is enough for many to rush to judgement.

A sad way to end one's life any way you slice it.

People are gonna play Coulda Woulda Shoulda with this for years.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
This whole discourse is making me sound like a bleeding heart liberal---which I'm not! My BIG concern is the escalation of violence BY our LEOs who are supposed to "Protect and Serve." They. Aren't.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
exhausted the non lethal options is a strong statement

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 23, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
Hey Ron, you being voluntarily tased explains a lot.
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
you can't give a beanbag gun to every cop out there. Its just not logistically practical.

I still have a problem with the way the highway patrolman drove up on the guy. I don't believe that I would have handled it that way. But hindsight is 2020. This wasn't like a suspect potentially escaping in a vehicle. He was on foot. So why park so close and put your vehicle into the mix?

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