BLM shoot and kill a man in Red Rocks (with witness video)

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clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 22, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
Funny the guys who are down on cops are from Humbolt and Santa Cruz.

Weed head alert..... paranoia big destroy ya.

Cozgrove is off on his demographics, I never have smoked "inhaled" the stuff.

Actually, he is right, because a lot of neighbors, and some friends are occasional users. It does go with the territory.

Cops are shooting people to often, They operate by training and procedure, as they should. The increase in unnecessary killing of civilians is because of a mentality that has changed. Watch out when the thinking has become "us" against them.

The protest in Egypt, Ukraine, and Venezuela are rooted in the disparity and separation we have escalating here, in a new hybrid version of the same old way people have thought about and treated each other since the beginning of society.

The police are distancing themselves from the people, and they are not alone in this at all. You can see this "separation" everywhere increasing at all points... It is the sign of corruption, an unstoppable natural human process. Business, government, religion, damn, even local school teachers and nuclear scientists giving standard tests are doing it. Letting that sweet but icky unethical decision be made for the betterment of number one.

History says blood will have to flow to reset society, So I think we may all take a moment to call ourselves stupid for repeating it. But we will repeat it. The wrongs will be righted because the common person now understands they an equal right to define fairness.

The police should be brave, well trained, serving and protecting the people. Are the laws(regulations) or is a developing culture starting to say otherwise? Yes, so action will have to be taken to change it. We need our law enforcement for the people.

STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Nice comment Ron. I appreciate your point of view.
The crux of the issue for me is that I wish it was true frontier justice paid out by ordinary citizens. It would have been easier to swallow instead of the incident that occurred that is representative of a system of comply or die. The fact that "professional" law enforcement officers acted in a such a way, that I view as unprofessional and unorganized scares the sh!t out of me. These guys have a badge, gun and the law on their side and are rarely convicted for wrong doing. They have a license to kill, period. And there are stories all over the news of police acting presumptuous and killing innocent people or acting in fear and shooting wildly into crowds to take down one person and in the process hit innocent bystanders http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-square-shooting-nypd-officers-shoot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/all-9-empire-state-building-shooting-injuries-by-police/
Police do not protect or serve. They are unfortunate pawns in a rigged system.
I have no doubt that police officers are just like you or me and have families, wants, needs and believe in what they do. I don't believe in what they do or represent when they put on a badge and gun.
Ron, you're maybe a more reasonable man than I and your comment was thoughtful, but I don't need cops. They serve the "Law' not me.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 22, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
History says blood will have to flow to reset society, So I think we may all take a moment to call ourselves stupid for repeating it. But we will repeat it.

Rudyard said it best.

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
but STEEVE is right on the money that blacks have different experiences than whites with cops.

So you and STEEVE honestly think the outcome would have been different if the guy had acted the exact same way, but was white instead of black?

You people are fuking ridiculous.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
STEEVEE, for those incident you mention, indeed no one or no govt or law agency will ever be perfect.

Some one up thread mentioned what officers would do in a war. We have had many examples of that very thing within the confines of this country.

The North Hollywood shootout for instance, where not one officer fled the scene for his or her safety. They stood steadfast against gunmen with all the modern warfare they could carry and wear. Against overwhelming odds for at that time, AR style weaponry wasnt common among LEOs. There is a movie about that incident which is VERY ACCURATE in detail. Suddenly the LosAngeles police dept became the HEROES. But i promise that you would be just as dead from one perp shooting you as two armed with fully auto weapons. The .40 caliber hand gun was developed specifically after a Florida FBI shoot out against two armed men, that had been responsible for cold blooded murders of many innocent victims. The 9mm rounds which both had been shot with did not stop them and they ended up killing two and wounding many other FBI agents.. So thats how they would handle WAR.





edit: Have I ran into "prick officers" ? Yes indeed i have. I had a fellow LEO coming into my district hassling my permitees once upon a time and i had to take measures to see that he never tread in my district again.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:17pm PT
Maybe yall can find more recent data, and I encourage you to look, but just off the top of my google: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/ph98.txt

Credit: mechrist
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
The North Hollywood shootout for instance, where not one officer fled the scene for his or her safety. They stood steadfast against gunmen with all the modern warfare they could carry and wear. Against overwhelming odds for at that time, AR style weaponry wasnt common among LEOs. There is a movie about that incident which is VERY ACCURATE in detail. Suddenly the LosAngeles police dept became the HEROES. But i promise that you would be just as dead from one perp shooting you as two armed with fully auto weapons. The .40 caliber hand gun was developed specifically after a Florida FBI shoot out against two armed men, that had been responsible for cold blooded murders of many innocent victims. The 9mm rounds which both had been shot with did not stop them and they ended up killing two and wounding many other FBI agents.. So thats how they would handle WAR.

Ron, this is an aside of the OP, I agree with your position on that.

However, I live a couple of miles from the site of the above shootout, and I actually treated some of the cops.

I thought their behavior was heroic.

UNTIL they had the gunmen down.

Then they proceeded to execute one by not allowing the paramedics, located 100 feet away, to provide care. He bled to death laying on the ground for nearly an hour.

That was an execution of an unarmed man by cop.

Plain and simple.
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
Ron, thanks for keeping "prick" cops in check.

I remember an experience I had when I was in the Marine Corps when I was trying to get back to Camp Pendleton from Tijuana before I was AWOL. Needless to say it was a rough weekend. I had no money, no vehicle, I had blood all over the front of my shirt and I was walking along the freeway around Chula Vista when an CHP officer stopped me and asked me my story. He listened, laughed and gave me a ride all the way back to camp, 90 minutes out of his way. He was a Marine, that helped, but he was also a cop and I remember him and the nice thing he did for me. I suppose if we had more experiences like that with cops...who knows.
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
mechrist, your data doesn't explain the disproportionate amount of blacks arrested and imprisoned compared to whites. http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
From this data, if I were a black man, I can assume cops and the "Law" they represent don't like me very much.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 22, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Actually STEEVEE that goes on WAY more than any of us know- it just isnt headline material for a hyperbolic media .

For instance , i watched the channel 13 vegas news clip about this and their opening comment were about how the incident and the explanations are just fostering ANGER. Yet the rest of the story shows no real anger with anyone. PURE HYPERBOLE is what that is. And the MEDIA is complicit in many of these incidents..


And To Ken, yes they let him bleed out. He was a rabid animal in all aspects, without regard to anyones life including the many citizens that were wounded that day. They just stood there spraying automatic fire in any direction they pleased. Shooting into approaching cars to try and get access to a better vehicle. They had many officers and citizens that required treatments FIRST. And they saved the state a million or so in prosecuting efforts, and then the housing and feeding and care of that rabid animal for the next 20 years while he waited for an execution.

And really, dont try and use the disproportionate stats as a means to an end. Yes poor folks tend to commit more crime. Inner city areas are literally shooting gallery's TODAY. With nightly shootings of all manner of ethnicity against other ethnicity. But that is NEVER used by the media to point out ANYTHING is it. But by golly see WHITE cops shooting a minority and it will be splashed upon headline after headline.



edit : also to Ken, i will commend you for being there and being a help!
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 22, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Didn't the authorities let the CSA agent at LAX bleed out while procedure dictated a lock-down? Safety first can kill too.
Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Feb 22, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
I'm simply saying that a black male will have a totally different experience with a cop than a white male. That is a fact.
Law enforcement have acknowledged that they profile and there are plenty of examples of cops rushing to judgement when they encounter some who is black.

Example A-


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 22, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
And To Ken, yes they let him bleed out. He was a rabid animal in all aspects, without regard to anyones life including the many citizens that were wounded that day. They just stood there spraying automatic fire in any direction they pleased. Shooting into approaching cars to try and get access to a better vehicle. They had many officers and citizens that required treatments FIRST. And they saved the state a million or so in prosecuting efforts, and then the housing and feeding and care of that rabid animal for the next 20 years while he waited for an execution.

Thanks, Rong. You have admitted that the cops were 1st degree murderers, and you are advocating that cops should have the right and ability to murder anyone that in their best guess, deserves to die. No need to bother with laws, courts, evidence, or anything else.

So no need to ever advocate again that this doesn't happen if a murderous cop feels like it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 22, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Ken you drama king.. I DID NOT SAY MURDER ANYONE . And that was not murder. That was a justifiable killing. And you know something else about that incident? Those two were arrested before with AK 47s in possession, and after serving a PALTRY sentence, the judge ordered to have their weapons given back to them... They needed them to pay their defense lawyers so the story went.. But that was just a lie and the guns were then used to shoot the shyt out of YOUR neighborhood.

So you see, all of the LEGAL TAP DANCING these days leads to only more crime..

And thanks you for TOTALLY IGNORING my commendation to you as well. Showing some super class you are. Just hope YOUR not in the way of the next shoot out..You may be the RONG one then.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 22, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Ken you drama king.. I DID NOT SAY MURDER ANYONE . And that was not murder. That was a justifiable killing. And you know something else about that incident? Those two were arrested before with AK 47s in possession, and after serving a PALTRY sentence, the judge ordered to have their weapons given back to them... They needed them to pay their defense lawyers so the story went.. But that was just a lie and the guns were then used to shoot the shyt out of YOUR neighborhood.

So you see, all of the LEGAL TAP DANCING these days leads to only more crime..

And thanks you for TOTALLY IGNORING my commendation to you as well. Showing some super class you are. Just hope YOUR not in the way of the next shoot out..You may be the RONG one then.


Wow
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 22, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
The two holyweird perps turned in their membership cards to the human race when they unleashed full automatic fire, addressed,

to whom it may concern.

He got exactly what he deserved!

The Red Rocks incident?
Maybe it could have been handled better, maybe not.

Out of control cops beating up deaf people and little girls jaywalking?

there's a problem here.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/california-cops-taser-deaf-man-unconscious-communicate-article-1.1618103

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/21/i-didnt-fking-do-anything-wrong-why-did-a-woman-allegedly-on-a-jog-end-up-screaming-and-in-handcuffs/

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Feb 22, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
Not letting paramedics attend to a wounded suspect is murder. If cops want criminals to respect the law, they need to let the system do the work. If it doesn't than obviously it needs to be fixed, but it is not their decision to make.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 22, 2014 - 10:32pm PT
The guy who died caused his own problem, don't you think?

He and his pal shot a couple dozen people. That kind of tied up all of the first-responders. And being the last one shot, he was last in line for help.

He created the long wait time that killed him. I'd call it suicide.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 22, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
Big Mike, we arent talking SOP or policy here, that was one incident. That i mentioned then Ken retorted too. And in that instance, the correct decision was made. There were 20 other people shot in that area, so if the perp died waiting,, GOOD. Best thing that could have happened. If some SOB dumped a 1500 rounds at me, i wouldnt give one micro-rip about him surviving.

Its kind of like little "flashbang" from the Boston Marathon bombing. I imagine more than a few million has been spent thus far on that case. IT will be going on for YEARS to come- absolutely ridiculous. Lawyers lining up to grab some fame and references in defending him, the whole nine of that circus.

I dont advocate that sort of treatement for all perps, BUT~~ there are those cases that shouldnt ever make it to a court.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
mechrist, your data doesn't explain the disproportionate amount of blacks arrested and imprisoned compared to whites.

First off, it ain't my data. Second, I never asked about the disproportionate amount of blacks vs whites being arrested and imprisoned. I asked if you and others thought the situation would have turned out any different if the victim had been white but acted exactly the same. I still haven't seen an answer.

You told us a positive story about a cop who happened to be a marine. Now tell us your worst personal experience with a cop.

BTW, I have had few run ins with marines, but I have never met one who was not hell bent on being a macho dick and starting a fight. I don't judge all marines because of those few, but I'm curious... how did you get bloody on your trip to Tijuana?


Exhibit B-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-guy-breaks-into-a-car-viral-video-actually-a-bit-phony-9142106.html

The first break-in took place in Little Tokyo, while the second is curiously transported to Hollywood Blvd, a tourist area where there is likely to be a higher density of police.

Furthermore, the siren that erupts each time a participant works on the car's lock may well have been inserted during editing, as not a single passer-by seems to bat an eyelid despite a loud noise suddenly blaring out two feet away from them.
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