I was wrong!


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Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 5, 2006 - 02:36pm PT
I was wrong!

I misjudged the situation. I didn't see your point of view before now.

I didn't have all the information. I didn't like the way you acted, looked, or talked but now I can see you're Ok.

Ok, maybe I still think I'm right but we can agree to disagree and continue the conversation.

Maybe I still don't like you but can't justify it, so I made up an excuse to disagree but really, it's just personal

But heck. I'm weird myself, and don't follow all the rules either. I have my own lust, greed, and live in my own world. It limits my knowledge and wisdom.

This isn't about anything in particular. I just want to make sure I can still say this stuff.



Middle California
Aug 5, 2006 - 02:57pm PT
12 Stepping?

Trad climber
Sac CA
Aug 5, 2006 - 03:01pm PT
At least Karl will come clean now it Landis' turn, maybe Karl will share with him how good it feels.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
Hey, I'd use performance enhancing stuff if I could afford it and if it didn't have negative side effects. I'm getting older and want to beat the rap as much as possible.

Not 12 stepping but I've seen folks benefit from that.

It's just liberating to cut the "I'm always right" crap and fess up when you screw up and are wrong.

and I LOVE to be right.

better to have some practical examples

I rented my place to a friend and his kids/friends while I went climbing on the East side. My plumbing erupted on them (cause it can handle one or two folks but not many) and buzzkilled one or two of their vacation days.

I knew my plumbing was weak and should have got it fixed, but (insert two or three semi-valid excuses here) I didn't

I am SO sorry I let me friends down cause I can be cheap and lazy.

(Don't worry about me being too hard on myself, it's all good. I suggest that with all the bashing we do here, we should get in the habit of retracting our venom once in awhile. Hint 'reardon,wos, etc')



Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
Aug 5, 2006 - 04:33pm PT
Jody, I don't think underage Dominican hookers can fire YOU. Kind of the other way round. An "at will" employment situation, ya know.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 04:52pm PT
Naw, Wings of Steel didn't offend me in the least. I'm not a big enough stud to get competitive.

I heard third hand who the poopers were and was disappointed cause, like all of us, they ain't all bad. I think it's a shame what happened to the FA crew though.

Sh#t Happens. Hopefully everybody involved learns some kind of lesson. It all beats dying in your basement in Lebanon.



Mountain climber
Lake Forest, CA
Aug 5, 2006 - 04:54pm PT
"This isn't about anything in particular. I just want to make sure I can still say this stuff. "

But it is EASY to say this stuff when it isn't about something in particular. It is when it IS about something in particular that it becomes so hard. :-)

Trad climber
Aug 5, 2006 - 08:22pm PT
What the hell; there's no Santa Claus. Next thing you'll tell me there isn't a Tooth Fairy.

Aug 5, 2006 - 08:29pm PT
Who among us did not do things at 18 or 19 that were so stupid, we still can't face up to them decades later. I have a bucketful.

Edit ala Locker: Hell, I'm still doing stupid things.

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 10:31am PT
OK Lois,
i suggested you put your impartial eyes to the task.
you did and asked for a response.
-probably the wings guys are the ones to best respond to any novel ideas.

landgolier has said it pretty straight: asking them what it is they really want, in the end.

to me your idea cracks the pressure in a somewhat constructive way.

i still have the impression that this is not limited to the perpetrators of misinformation and vandalism.

i think richard and mark also want some amends made for the total cultural absorption and reflection of the mis-representation of their effort. my earliest posts referenced this, perhaps not so clearly.

Cardiff by the sea
Aug 6, 2006 - 10:38am PT
That was a funny comment about Limbaugh Jody LOL

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 11:45am PT
Excellent Lois,
And again, Richard and Mark need to be part of this ameliorative process: to co construct a solution.

Iíd like to see this wound healed as well.

Technically speaking, one can't mediate a conflict if they are somehow associated with a side of it. This is why I asked you to put some of your formidable and earnest thought to the matter.

There are likely some people who contribute to this forum who have more working knowledge of conflict resolution than myself. i have 40 hrs training in theory and practice of conflict management but zero applicable experience. i do have an interest in its use.

Hereís a quick primer:
Positional bargaining is tit for tat. If I win some, you lose an equal amount. We dig our heels in. Bring in the lawyers and/or we'll go fisticuffs until there is a winner either by adjudication or by an agreement born out of haggling. The winner's award is directly proportional to the loser's damage.

Interest based bargaining:
You put the opponents in charge of constructing an outcome that is mutually beneficial to the needs of both parties. They have to each agree to want this at the outset or there is a no go on this type of resolution.

The idea is to "expand the pie", meaning let the parties involved really take a good look at what each has in terms of needs and constructively and analytically look at the situation to see what might be overlooked in terms of the big picture's ability to provide a mutually beneficial solution.

If that does not describe what Iím talking about then Iíll need some help.

A mediator does not provide a solution; it is crafted by the opponents.

For my part here is what I suggest:
Saving face is perhaps a big part of it.

I say let Richard and Mark concede that they may well have been doing something unorthodox for the times, i.e. aiding many pitches of blank slab, as opposed to using bolts rivets hooks to link weaknesses. This may have been visionary and by modern standards is not seen as a poor use of bolts especially in light of the widespread acceptance of rap bolting. This route was ground up and run out; much like the style of free ground up ascension which Bachar in fact ďallowedĒ.

Likewise, the local community might concede that although this unorthodox aspect of ascension was so, the reportage was false in terms of the form and some very cutting edge style of aid was performed.

The vast cultural absorption and reflection was fallout from a verifiable degree of mis-reportage and is acknowledged as such, exactly by whom Iím not sure; perhaps a collusion of the original reporters/choppers, a lot of us at large and editors.

You toss in an apology (anonymous or otherwise) for the desecration, perhaps noting that the chopping was a common occurrence of the times, when an established tradition was seen to have been disregarded. A modern viewpoint changes things.


Brutus of Wyde

Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
Aug 6, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
OK, let's see if I can help here.

I didn't poop on the gear or chop the ropes, but I wish I had.

That way I could apologize and make things better.

Or not.

Everybody happy?

Brutus, wishing the world wasn't so confusing.

Social climber
The West
Aug 6, 2006 - 12:29pm PT
I think Lois' idea is a good one, but I wonder if any of the poopers feel they owe them an apology. I suspect not.

I think they just rinsed the gear off and kept going. It would be hard to grip one of those ropes in your teeth to clip, though.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 6, 2006 - 12:39pm PT
Always thinking in practical terms, Jaybro.
I like that.

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 12:44pm PT
hey guys, don't bogart that joint.
pass it please, i like the plain 'n simple folksy levity.

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 12:58pm PT

besides, whut wuz i thinkin'
would you trust this guy to help resolve your conflict?

and whut would you say about this guy's propensity for straight play in any matter?
(mussy walling)

but lois, i do agree werner is capable of a fair and balanced approach:
(wonder braun)

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 05:45pm PT
Lois wrote:
"No person who has ever pooped on gear can also serve on the committee."

Girl, you are the "straight man" par excellence.
I am in doubled-over-myself-laughing-tears over that one!

Russ Walling = Mussy

Trad climber
Aug 6, 2006 - 06:19pm PT
But what if we wanted to krap on their ropes?

I only krapped on their ropes in the arcade version. The aliens captured their 1200 lbs of equipment before I could save the base. And then I ran out of quales.

right here, right now
Aug 6, 2006 - 06:31pm PT
I love you Mimi.
Nothing is sacred for you girl.
Don't ever change.
Let's do lunch.

Well, Lois,
I must say, you really have stepped up to the plate.
I won't say you exceeded my expectation, because my expectation of your ability to bring much forthright grit to any discourse or inquiry has been well instructed by your phenomenal potential.

I think we need to see what Richard and Mark have to say of our suggestions.
After all, this is primarily their quest.
It's their saga and their dispute.
We of course as a community have stake in it because we have been charged with much ado. (hehe).

So let's see, between Richard, Mark, and our community at large, what the uptake looks like in terms of your suggestion for the reparations which an arbitration committe might offer.

I like the idea.
Thank You Lois!

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