Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
10b4me
climber
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2015 - 09:12am PT
|
Water conservation without controlling new users, will never solve the problem. Growth must be curtailed, agricultural growth most of all. While I agree, I don't see that happening.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2015 - 09:19am PT
|
Water never runs out.
Water is always there but not given by Nature because of your criminal activities against it.
Stop your criminal activities against Nature and all your water will come nicely ......
|
|
10b4me
climber
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2015 - 11:19am PT
|
Water is always there but not given by Nature because of your criminal activities against it.
Stop your criminal activities against Nature and all your water will come nicely ......
yup,and therein lies the rub.
|
|
krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
|
Thanks Dingus for the paper. The C14 data confirms that the trees grew during the medieval warming period which corresponded with severe drought in California during that time. While I accept the paleoenvironmental interpretation of the paper: a drier climate near a smaller to non-existent Walker River; I remain skeptical of the inference that these stumps have been sitting exposed in the bottom of the Walker River bed for 700 years. But whatever.
|
|
Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
|
The California State Climatologist gave a briefing at the Public Policy Institute of California titled "Climate, Drought, and Change". Of the many illuminating graphics, I was most struck by this one, a scatter plot of annual precip and annual average temperature for the period 1895-2013.
There is not any correlation between precip and temperature, but look at the years since 2000 (black boxes). Since 2000, the precip is both above and below average (yellow triangle is average), but every year has been above average temperature. Droughts in the future are going to be different, because they will be hotter, which will place greater heat stress and evaporative demand on crops, reservoirs, and wildlands than a similar precipitation-year a few decades ago.
Remember that the Seager et al. study discussed a few hundred posts ago, which used modeling to conclude that the current drought was unrelated to climate change, looked only at precip anomalies. Precip is a big part of the picture, but it's not the only part. This current drought is dry, and that aridity is being exacerbated by warmer than normal (average) temperatures, that are likely at least partly a result of fossil fuel burning.
|
|
Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2015 - 06:52am PT
|
Hmmm... They work for me, so I don't know what to do to fix them. No pay wall.
|
|
10b4me
climber
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2015 - 08:41am PT
|
We seem to turn a blind eye that the human population in California the past quarter century or so has almost doubled
The only way to stop it is to make living in California uninviting.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2015 - 09:51am PT
|
Did anyone notice in the first story Bob linked that one of the farmers complaining said his family moved from the dust bowl of Oklahoma to California. And yet they are blaming the environmentalist. They are losing their farms and that is a sad thing, but lots of people said that area shouldn't be farmed a whole long time ago. Its also interesting and sad to me how numbers can be manipulated, and that people who don't really understand that can also be manipulated.
|
|
CA.Timothy
climber
California
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2015 - 10:00am PT
|
But the fact there have been significant warmer and drier periods in the distant, pre-civilization past doesn't mean that this one isn't either partly driven or worsened by human-caused global warming.
I don't dispute your point above, however, those long droughts were not in the 'distant' past; that's my point.
Either way, I'd say that trying to definitively answer that question is somewhat irrelevant for the current and near future generations of humans and the environment in the West. Regardless of the cause, if we're entering a longish period of warmer and drier conditions, and we've made economic/resource/planning decisions over the last 100 years based off of wetter, cooler conditions, we and the environment may have some problems going forward.
Water conservation without controlling new users, will never solve the problem. Growth must be curtailed, agricultural growth most of all.
While I agree, I don't see that happening.
Me neither. What will happen is the water will run out and there will be legal wars over who survives and who packs it up and leaves.
I would also subscribe to this. Thank you for all the links and good info people
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
Merced's .02" January rainfall was stacked next to the third highest rainfall total for December.
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/local/article8969747.html
Not to worry. The fog helps, but February better see the blocking high depart soon...or else!
The county supes have delayed any vote on regulation of groundwater pumping once more...this has been ongoing, a tacit nod to keep the wells flowing, if you ask me. Connivance of the powers that be with the powers that always have been.
City water's been tasting pretty rank lately, even in a restaurant which serves decent food. I've noticed that a few places have waterless toilets, some have deliberately cut down the flow to the restroom sinks, as well.
Honest citizens abound, as usual, but so do the rats.
We could, I suppose, revert to the days of ale and beer, which was supposed to be a substitute for foul tasting water during the middle ages. But alcohol dries your body out, surprise, surprise, surprise...
|
|
Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
|
|
Thanks Bob Harrington - lots of good information in those links.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Rain is coming!!!!
Get your water buckets out and ready to capture nice water falling from the sky ....
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2015 - 11:04am PT
|
Finally, I started a thread that has more than ten posts.
It is raining now, and I am… where am I? Oh yes, In Co Wexford, Ireland. Not my native East Bay. Did I not start this thread by saying that historically California is a land of droughts and floods (until the Army Corps of Engineers, among others, stepped in with the flood issues back in the 1960s).
So El Nino or not to Nino, that is the question.
Now, some 38 million people in California. Am I correct with that? Whoa, when I was born in Walnut Creek (1956), it had about 5,000 people, now it has… a lot more.
Water issues well always be a talking point in places like Central/Southern California. Turn deserts in to Palm Springs.
I have read this thread and gone to the links posted (I should be out climbing, or trying to figure a way to break Jennie out of the nursing home), I see the issue of water, not only in California, as multi-faceted (duh, who gave this dummy a degree?).
It is February (didn't take a genius to figure that out), what is the snow pack like in the mountains? I could go online, but I am lazy and in need of rest. So it is easier to ask Taco Standers.
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
|
|
a whole lot of wind this morning.
nothing else.
maybe we can start drinking the wind.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there say, johh m, and patrick, first for asking and then for john providing, as, i too, have been wondering about the snowpack...
seems whenever i see all this snow over here in the mich, onward, area, i think of 'my old dear calif' and see that they have not had much... wondered how it was, as to 'how it should be, etc' stuff...
heard, too, that the rain is coming... let's see how it fairs...
my mom in san jose, hopes to hear a bit of it... most likely
she has by now, if it was enough to wake her up... however, it seemed that
it would NOT be around there, long... :(
thank you each and everyone of you for sharing news and links, thoughts, ideas, and articles and all the tech info...
thank you... trying to 'digest' it all...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!