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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 25, 2015 - 12:36am PT
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old men talk about the weather,
young men are out chasin tail.
the Big Kahuna controls both of these,
chatter on about things you can not do anything about,
stoopid americans, you should be shopping in your SUV's or getting your white azz kicked off the wine train,
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CCT
Trad climber
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Aug 25, 2015 - 12:54am PT
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Chief is right. The water levels in the High Sierra lakes are just fine. They were fine last year too. If you find yourself at a Sierra "lake" with a seemingly low water level, look carefully. You will discover that you are actually at a reservoir.
I can't speak to the normal water level in the streams, because that's harder for a first-time visitor to assess.
I assume that the lake levels are normal because there are sufficient groundwater supplies to keep them full. Groundwater comes from melting snow. There wasn't much snow this year, but there was enough. There are also many small melting glaciers in the Sierras. Every year they get smaller, but as of this year, most of them do still exist, and they help stock the groundwater table every summer too.
Anyway, back to those full High Sierra alpine lakes. Most years, any excess groundwater that ends up in the lakes flows out via small streams. Those streams are what lead into our reservoirs.
If the streams leading into them are small, or nonexistent, our reservoirs don't get what they need for the summer. Combine that with low rainfall in winter, and you end up with the shockingly low reservoir levels that you see today. Those reservoirs look like giant gashes on the landscape, and it's not pretty.
One good El Nino will make a big dent. Even if it's all rain and no snow, our reservoirs are empty enough that they will catch most of it. But if winter rain instead of snow becomes the new normal for the Sierras, in the long run we will need to increase our reservoir capacity.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 25, 2015 - 01:27am PT
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what California needs is not bigger lakes but more people.
just pack as many as you can in there,
i mean til people are forced to stand up, elbow to elbow,
can we get the commute time up to 4 hours each way?
you'll get used to it if you do it every day for years on end,
just keep humping, ZPG? that's anti social and not very religious,
what are the population projections for California for the year 2194?
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Aug 25, 2015 - 06:45am PT
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I wish we could keep the old animosities out of this excellent on-going thread about the drought.
Good luck with that.
Despite the fact that there is still water in the lakes in the Sierra, there can be no doubt we are in drought conditions. At the end of June the snow conditions looked more like the end of September. Waist deep creek crossings are now ankle deep creek crossings. Side streams are dry. Lake outlets are super low or dry. Aspens are dying.
Anybody been to the Palisade Glacier this year?
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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There's that persevering NEGATIVITY again. Keep it coming. Promote the doom Gary etal.
Do I need to post Norman Clyde's photos of the Palisade Glacier during the mid 30's when it far less in size than it is today, GARY!
Oh, and do not make mention of how if the floods come to socal this winter how the local and state gov'ts have made any effort to increase the capture capabilities. NONE!
It is going to be a laugh of all laughs to see how all the RIVER channels in LA are full to the brim, all the rescues that will be made etc and watch ALL them millions of gallons of water going straight to the... ocean. Just like it has for the past 60 or so years.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 08:56am PT
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Sprock is right... blame the almond farmers all ya want. BUT make no mention at the population growth or should I say how this state is making absolutely no provisions to deal with it in terms of water delivery to all venues that are thirsty for it in this grand Nation of California.
Sure do hope that Bullet Train is gonna be built on stilts.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:10am PT
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The California human population has not doubled in the past 20 years.
Thank god! It already contains the highest of all states in the entire nation. How much more can it hold? Seriously!
Instead of spending all that surplus tax revenue on a new train system, do you not think it would be far better for the nations most populated state to increase it's water delivery capabilities. Which ever way is best with the modern day technology available that does not destroy the environment.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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Who wants in on the ground floor (pun intended) of my soon to be announced
Cali Almond Growers' Water Well Derivative Swap Fund? It'll be huge, boys!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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Gravity gets it here from Big Bear.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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I'd love to see that old Norman Clyde photo of the Palisade Glacier. Will you please post it up?
Thanks!
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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I'm more into living within our water budget than a futile effort to expand supply.
That's an oxymoron is it not Dingus. Seeing as the supply is not static in any way shape or form, ie the current "Drought" and the "Dustbowls" of the past that most here do not realize are the norm.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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Dingus, it's a derivative based on the underlying* wells' continued
propensity. Heads I win, tails you lose!
*financial speak for the raison d'etre of the instrument
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 09:56am PT
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This isn't the same one I mentioned but shows how in the early 30's the conditions were pretty much the same then as they are today.
Early Aug of 31'
Late July of 2015 I took on my trip to 3rd to check out the fishies.
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Aug 25, 2015 - 10:28am PT
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This isn't the same one I mentioned but shows how in the early 30's the conditions were pretty much the same then as they are today.
To me there looks like a lot of difference between the 1930 photo and the 2015 image, inasmuch that the lake at the base of the terminal moraine (from 1850 advance) in 2015 photograph is completely covered in snow and ice in the 1930 picture. The zone of accumulation does look similar in both pictures.
Starting at about 3:40 in this video there's a good historical photograph comparison:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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CCT
Trad climber
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Aug 25, 2015 - 11:35am PT
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Wow, those are some really great photos and video. Thanks for posting up. I've thought about doing a similar comparison myself, but it looks like someone beat me to it.
Looking along the base of the mountains, it's interesting how similar the glacier looks in both photos. It appears that it hasn't lost much depth in that area.
On the other hand, the ice flow near the terminal moraine, by the lake, looks to have decreased quite a bit. I can't even see the lake in the Normal Clyde photos. Judging by the change in slope from the 1930/2015 photos, I think the lake location was completely buried by the ice/debris flow at the time. That's consistent with the video, which shows the lake slowly revealing itself sometime between 1947-1976 (2:17-2:30).
It's great that we have these visual historic records, and people here who know how to find them.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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Hey CCT, check this out. Now this one really is showing it's age....
When Werner first showed up in the Valley (notice they had to paint it):
And today:
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Aug 25, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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And Dingus... that is why me and the Boss were in Idaho. Did a full recon of Sandpoint, Hope and Clark Fork area. Got three properties on the burner. Hopefully we'll be up there no later than next late spring. Sooner we hope.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 25, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
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Hopefully, there will be no internet access where you move to.
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