Whales and dolphins in captivity

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karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 31, 2013 - 10:14am PT
Spread awareness about the captivity of whales and dolphins to eventually lead to the public making the choices that can end this cruelty.

Mission
END THE CAPTIVITY OF WHALES AND DOLPHINS IN ALL PARKS/AQUARIUMS ACROSS THE GLOBE.

The captivity of dolphins and whales is a sad and disturbing practice found across the world. For anyone who takes the time to look, it becomes clear this is an unnecessary and cruel act by people. These highly intelligent animals are taken from their families and forced into a life of servitude. What can you do? Spread the world; help educate people about the truth. Not supporting aquariums and parks that hold marine life is also the most basic thing you can do to help end this. Just like any business, if they don't make money they will fail. Raise your voice for those who have had theirs stolen.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:24am PT


The argument is going to be that the animals on display help educate the general public and through doing so, helps the animals, so on and so forth...

On one hand I get the idea of some animals being displayed/"Sacrificed" so that people may learn...

But then there's that part about seeing the poor animals stuck in some for sh!t situation NOT of their choosing...



I have mixed feelings on the subject...


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Captive whales and dolphins have been trained to perform tricks, day after day, for food as a reward instead of behaving naturally. When not performing, they are often kept in holding tanks smaller than show pools. Confining animals together that may not get on can result in stress and aggression with no possible escape.


We have no right to put these amazing creatures in captivity. Captive whale and dolphin shows are not education, or conservation; stress and disturbing behaviour is common amongst dolphins displayed in dolphinaria. Captivity is all about making money.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:43am PT
But then there's that part about seeing the poor animals stuck in some for sh!t situation NOT of their choosing...

and THAT is the problem with ZOOZ



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:47am PT

"We have no right to put these amazing creatures in captivity.".


Technically speaking, I think we do in fact have the "RIGHT" to put the animals in zoos and such...

But that of course doesn't necessarily make it RIGHT...

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:55am PT
i finally broke out of the steel-reinforced-concrete wall
that god had built all around me.
her intent was to cage me within my own fear,
that is what she does best,
but i prevailed with enduring fortitude
and courage and now im
free of her confines but
now i realize she's on the other side of the
wall too, and that the cage is everywhere,
there is no escape, no liberty.
and i must maintain my resistance to her
advances if i'm ever to entertain the
life that i genetically inherrited.

so i will remain steadfast in my
lifelong goal to deny gods any place within my heart.

even if those dolphins and whales be free within the sea,
we have them by the throat, regardless.

thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:57am PT
I am not against the flogging of the dolphin.
Captivity, yes. Flogging, no.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:08am PT

"because we CAN..?"...


What are the legalities of the situation???...


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Whales and dolphins are highly intelligent animals who want and need to live in complex social groups. In captivity they will usually have been separated from their families, often in cruel hunts and some when they are very young.

Wild whales and dolphins can swim up to 100 miles a day, hunting and playing. In captivity they have very little space and cannot behave naturally. A concrete tank can never replace their ocean home.


The mental, emotional and physical stress that a captive whale or dolphin suffers can weaken their immune system and make them prone to disease. Even though captive whales and dolphins are kept in an environment free of predators, pollution and other threats, they die young. The death rate for infant whales and dolphins is also much higher in captivity.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:20am PT


As humans we feel we OWN everything on the planet...

and that of course is a HUGE problem for the poor animals...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 11:26am PT
In some zoo's there is something called a Species Survival Plan (SSP) Program, which aims to manage the breeding of specific endangered species in order to help maintain healthy and self-sustaining populations that are both genetically diverse and demographically stable.

The end goal of many SSPs is the reintroduction of captive-raised endangered species into their native wild habitats. According to the , SSPs and related programs have helped bring black-footed ferrets, California condors, red wolves and several other endangered species back from the brink of extinction over the last three decades. Zoos also use SSPs as research tools to better understand wildlife biology and population dynamics, and to raise awareness and funds to support field projects and habitat protection for specific species.

However
Captivity for whales and dolphins is brutal!

Wild capture of whales and dolphins is awful. Entire pods may be targeted and many animals killed or injured. Only the young and fit are taken. These are the future generations for these already vulnerable wild populations and their loss has a hugely negative impact on group dynamics.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:33am PT
If Sea World and its ilk wanted to really do the 'educational' thang then
they would throw a few baby seals into the Orca tank every day. I bet that
would bring the crowd to its feet.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Cetaceans in captivity is not an option.

As this is the last day of the year I'm making my non-profit donations.

I'm supporting OPS and my friends Candice and Louie - http://www.opsociety.org/

Next it's off to WildAid, Project Aware, Monterey Bay Aquarium,

I've already been beating this drum BTW around here....
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2215095/Blackfish-the-movie-OT

In May or June of 2014 I'm organizing a trip to the San Juan Islands to visit the Orca's. See them in the only place they should be seen - the wild.

This guy is kicking some ass:
Credit: nature
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:48am PT
Oh, Nature, you really want to go see them on the Valdes Peninsula in
Argentina where they show up for the seal pup sushi fest. It's a jungle out there. ;-)
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 11:49am PT
I'm with you Nature!

There are many fantastic opportunities to see whales and dolphins in the wild both from land and with a responsible boat operator, so help us end captivity and keep whales and dolphins wild.

check out Stop Seaworld on facebook

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 11:53am PT

Stop SeaWorld

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Stop SeaWorld
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Stop the exploitation of Orcas and force SeaWorld and other parks to release these intelligent and social mammals from their small prisons back into an ocean sanctuary to live out the rest of their lives in their natural habitats
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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:56am PT
How much knowledge has been gained by captive programs on the various species? Knowledge that would not be known if all were left in the wild? And what is the percentage of captive vs wild Orcas or dolphins?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:05pm PT


"How much knowledge has been gained by captive programs on the various species? Knowledge that would not be known if all were left in the wild?"...

Good and very valid questions...

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
The behaviour of whales and dolphins is obviously constricted by life in a tank. Whales and dolphins are ordinarily intelligent, social animals that live in groups in the wild and carry out a myriad of tasks throughout daily life that are simply impossible in captivity. Most of the knowledge gained from carrying out research in the captive environment may not be applicable to the conservation of these animals in the wild.

Wild capture of dolphins and whales is a brutal activity as entire pods are targeted and only the young and fit are removed. These are the future generations of wild populations which may already be subject to other threats and the targeted population may therefore suffer greatly as a result of these captures, particularly in terms of group dynamics.


The orca, or "killer," whale is the largest member of the dolphin family.
Status:
Endangered in Oregon, Washington, and California.

Population: The worldwide population of orcas is unknown.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
locker - go see the movie blackfish and then maybe add your 2 cents.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Since the OP ducked the question a bit,, ill elaborate. We would not know DIDDLY about dolphins or orcas had it not been for captives ..All those things Karen mentions of how intelligent they are were discovered through those programs. To UNDERSTAND a species, it must be studied at close quarters. So indeed all those attributes mentioned here have been discovered through the very programs you now want stopped. Cant have it both ways..
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
You can see Blackfish on Netflix.
Want to stop the torture of these animals?
Boycott SeaWorld, sign petitions, donate money or time, raise awareness!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
Most of the knowledge gained from carrying out research in the captive environment may not be applicable to the conservation of these animals in the wild.

I suggest you watch the movie blackfish then do some research.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
Well, Ron, by studying orcas and dophins in captivity I aver the only ones
who benefit are those doing the studies. Turn 'em all loose and leave 'em
the phuk alone! They don't need us to manage them other than assuring them
of enough salmon and seals to eat which means keeping fisheries stocks healthy.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
The documentary movie Blackfish continues to be a public relations and financial nightmare for SeaWorld, and it’s now creating what people have termed the Blackfish Effect.

Eight out of the 10 musical acts scheduled for SeaWorld Orlando’s Bands, Brews and Barbecue Festival have canceled. Fans had launched online petitions, leading to the festival’s headlining acts – Willie Nelson, Barenaked Ladies, Joan Jett, Trisha Yearwood, .38 Special, Heart, REO Speedwagon and Martina McBride – all canceling their scheduled concert dates.

Many of the musicians have been using their social media pages to educate their fans about SeaWorld’s history of oppression and abuse. For Willie Nelson, the decision wasn’t a difficult one. "I don’t agree with the way they treat their animals," he said. “It wasn’t that hard a deal for me."
Some musicians and bands, including Joan Jett and Tommy Lee of Motley Crue, have also asked SeaWorld to stop using their music as a soundtrack to the “Shamu Rocks” show.

Joan Jett, whose outspoken views on the mistreatment of farmed animals got her kicked-off of South Dakota’s float at Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, wrote a scathing letter to SeaWorld’s president expressing her displeasure:

"SeaWorld’s reliance on cruelty and captivity for commerce has been widely exposed. I hope you’ll take the respectable path and release the captive orcas to coastal sanctuaries so that they can live out their lives with other orcas in nature. This move would show that your company is truly family-friendly."

SeaWorld’s public relations problems are still growing, and the backlash toward their mistreatment of orcas is moving from the public to the private sector. Following on the heels of the rock stars, a marine science-based high school canceled its annual trip to SeaWorld. Rebecca Johnson, principal of Pt. Dume Marine Science School in Malibu, CA, said:
“My decision was guided by what was the best thing for all my students. I am very proud that the school did the right thing. I hope it’s not just a one-year, knee-jerk reaction. I hope they truly understand how wrong it is that these whales are in captivity, and none of us should be paying money to see that.”

All of this pressure has helped spread the Blackfish Effect to the point that it is now impacting SeaWorld’s commerce. Delaware L.P. Sw, a subsidiary of Blackstone, SeaWorld’s majority stockholder, has sold stock valued at over $500 million dollars.
In an effort to stem the growing tidal wave of negative public relations, SeaWorld took out a full-page ad in several major newspapers across the country. In the ads, they continue to claim that "The killer whales in our care benefit those in the wild,” and that “SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild,” as well as saying that “We do not separate killer whale moms and calves.”
However, Blackfish director, Gabriela Cowperthwaite, told the Los Angeles Times:
“Unfortunately, their statements range from wildly misleading to patently false. I just wish they would evolve past their 40-year-old spin and resolve to work with us toward a better future.”
Despite SeaWorld’s best efforts, the Blackfish Effect will most likely continue to gain momentum because the documentary has just made its streaming debut on Netflix…and Netflix reportedly has over 31 million subscribers.

Yay!!!


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
A healthy dose of STFU:
http://theorcaproject.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/open-letter-seaworld/

and

http://www.opsociety.org/PressReleases/SeaWorldOpenLetterRebuttal-OPS.pdf

in response to this bullshit:
http://seaworld.com/en/ourcare/Letter?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SWF12SRC


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:23pm PT


'The documentary movie Blackfish continues to be a public relations and financial nightmare for SeaWorld, and it’s now creating what people have termed the Blackfish Effect."...

I just watched that and had the feeling this thread may have been influenced by it...

Good documentary!!!...

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
and if you have not seen The Cove you should watch that as well.

A really sweet movie is The Whale.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Reilly,,If there were never captives we wouldnt now their intelligence levels, their habits, their requirements for health and much much more. Did you know dolphins have been used by the military quite a bit? They are trained to rescue lost swimmers, land mines and much more. All of this was through captive programs. And those dolphins arent even real captives.

Frankly Dolphins have aided us in more ways than most realize. Emotionally- certainly anything in captivity is sad to our reasoning. But the benefits to all concerned including the dolphins shouldnt be ignored.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:33pm PT

"and if you have not seen The Cove you should watch that as well."...


Sounds familiar and with my crap memory not sure if I've seen it or not...'

THANKS for the recommendation and I'll look it up and view it again either way...


;-)

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
great links Nature!

You might want to read them Ron.

let them go!
let them go!
Credit: karen roseme
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
Ron, I am quite aware of all of that. I just don't believe in slavery.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
A perfect example of the lies of SeaWorld is to look into the Morgan Story.

She was rescued by SeaWorld and rehabilitated. This animal could easily be released back to her pod. But SeaWorld is keeping her at loro parque - mostly likely to increase their genetic diversity for their breading program.

Free Morgan
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:41pm PT

"locker - go see the movie blackfish and then maybe add your 2 cents."...


???...






Uh...

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
you said you saw it. that's fine. but in my opinion to be a part of this discussion in a constructive way it's a must see.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:45pm PT


I don't see how watching that Movie is a break all/make all to this thread...

It's a good documentary and all...

But one not need see it to CARE...



You KNOW what I mean???...

So, though you feel it is necessary for one to watch it before commenting on this thread, and though it MAY be of benefit, I personally do not see it as a necessity in order to comment or be TOLD to go watch a movie before commenting...



;-)





EDITED:

and to be fair, if one is to HAVE to watch that movie before commenting, then in turn they should have to watch on from the opposing side...


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
it has nothing to do with caring. That's an emotion.

it's a factual conversation and that movie is loaded with FACTS that until the movie didn't enter into this conversation. Either come equipped with the facts and discuss or act on emotion. I'm choosing the former.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
KDog, the dolphin performed admirably in the Irag war locating mines in the persian gulf, saving many lives. Kdog swims as free as ever doing that as well. Maybe some of you need to go to other sources that some "documentary" set to pre preconceived results.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:49pm PT


"it has nothing to do with caring"...

How do you mean it's not about "Caring"???...


This thread is ALL about "CARING"...


???...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
I hate to see family squabbles :(. Stop it, you two!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
I'll just give up and get back to karen. I'm to busy to explain myself and you're not getting what i'm trying to say. and i'm sure that's my fault.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Nature must think the fish he carves up for sushi voluntarily died for his cause.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:53pm PT


Typical kid...

Son if there's one thing I've tried HARD to get you to understand...

NEVER argue with your FATHER!!!...

LOL!!!...



Doug, I DO fully get your point...

But I'm not real sure you get mine...

;-)

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
no... i get it DAD! I just never listened to you so why should I start now?!?!?111169

;)
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:56pm PT

Why change now, right???...

Damned kid...





For the record:

I personally am OPPOSED to putting Whales and Dolphins in tiny, miserable, POOLS (aka PRISONs)...
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Lolita (L25) is another story worth looking in to. She could be reintroduced to L-pod and they would accept and remember her. And they took her captive 43 years ago.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
First they want to be you. Then they want to kill you and sleep with mom. So hard these uh days.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
It use to say on Tilikums wiki page:

Occupation: Captive Slave
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 01:06pm PT


It's sad for sure...

Ugly...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/the-hit-documentary-blackfish-has-a-message-as-dubious-as-its-methods/Content?oid=3507212
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
and by the way locker....

EDITED:

and to be fair, if one is to HAVE to watch that movie before commenting, then in turn they should have to watch on from the opposing side...

I would love to see nothing more in this discuss than a movie from the opposing side.

It's blatantly obvious it would be lies and propaganda. They won't go down that road because they know how easily it would get picked apart. Reading this makes it obvious what they got. Nothing.
http://seaworld.com/en/ourcare/Letter?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SWF12SRC

Point #4 is such a lie it's perplexing they'd actually state it:
SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild.

J2 Granny - 102 years old. J8 Spieden - 80 years old - RIP. i could go on...


BTW... this is a super cool story.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/killer-whales-dazzle-in-an-hourlong-show-off-l-a-like-seaworld-without-the-tanks/
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 01:54pm PT

There must be some footage showing the importance of studying Whales and Dolphins somewhere...

That is the opposing viewpoint I am referring to...

One side believes they should be FREE...

The other believes that captive animals are a must for study...




EDITED:

Of course one of the BEST places to observe and learn is in their NATURAL environment...


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
The Cove. It won an academy award for best documentary. It describes the capture and slaughter of small cetaceans in Taiji Japan. It's going on right now. The director lives here in Boulder. I met him on Isla Mujeres over the summer. After the floods I went over to help him out (they got pummeled by the water). Some big things are planned for 2014 both with what Louie has planned as well as what the Sea Shepherds are up to.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 31, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Locker Audubon identified his birds IN THE HAND.. Marine scientists must also do the same with that life as well to actually "study" them. Youd be hard pressed to get a blood sample from a killer whale in the great briney.

As i said nothing would really be known about these species if not for study. The ocean is the planets last unexplored zone. Study is paramount to understanding it all.

The Kdog saved countless US lives as well as others in the persian gulf - locating mines, and it swam free as could be, yet did its job. A Stellar example of their service and willingness even in the wild to respond to human training.. Thats some incredible stuff all stemming from study of those dolphins.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
http://takepart.com/article/2013/12/30/seaworlds-very-rotten-year

here's hoping to an even worse world for them in 2014.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
Whales and dolphins are highly intelligent animals who want and need to live in complex social groups. In captivity they will usually have been separated from their families, often in cruel hunts and some when they are very young.

Dogs are pack animals. How many people complaining about this also have a single dog that sits at home alone all day while they are out on the picket-line complaining about animals in captivity?

Dave

P.S. I just got back from the San Diego Safari Park. No one is complaining about the Rhino's in captivity because no one made a documentary about them. This thread is another example of people being sheep and following whatever "save the _" fad that comes along.

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
...willingness...

If it is "training," then it is not "willingness." Informed cooperation would require us having to explain what we want and then the animals would use logic and reason to decide to act or not. "Training" is where we give treats to the animal each time it does what we want, and it eventually learns complex actions because... wait for it... treats are yummy!

Dave
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
I always like to look up any charitable organization to ascertain how much good the do-gooder is actually doing. Oceanic Preservation Society's form 990 was quite the eye opener. I'm sure Louis means the ocean well, but factually he's paying himself $200,000 a year (in addition to car, restaurant, and other expense write offs) and the only "donation" they made at all in 2011 was $100 (it didn't say to whom). They do make nice movies though.
The Cove and Blackfish were very good IMO.

I dunno, I'd like to see more actual conservation efforts besides making movies, and I also dislike the idea that they think associating with Paul Watson is a good idea.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:25pm PT


There are some GOOD points here...


"Dogs are pack animals. How many people complaining about this also have a single dog that sits at home alone all day while they are out on the picket-line complaining about animals in captivity?

Dave

P.S. I just got back from the San Diego Safari Park. No one is complaining about the Rhino's in captivity because no one made a documentary about them. This thread is another example of people being sheep and following whatever "save the _" fad that comes along."
...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 10:04am PT
Hey Ron,
I think that negative review you found was written by a Sea World stock holder!





**Ten Things You Didn’t Know About SeaWorld



They are forced to perform tricks and live in tiny enclosures.

Say NO to SeaWorld and refuse to buy a ticket.

Orcas that were at SeaWorld before 1972 were likely kidnapped from their ocean homes. For example, Tilikum, a 32-year-old orca, was captured at the age of 2 by a marine "cowboy." Tilikum wasn't taken from his natural environment because he was injured—instead, he was torn away from his family against his will and confined to a small concrete tank for a hefty profit.


A scientific study by Newcastle University found that dolphins in close proximity to humans experience extreme stress, "preventing them from resting, feeding or nurturing their young." Despite these findings, SeaWorld continues to allow park guests to swim and touch dolphins at its Discovery Cove location in Orlando, Florida.


In 1965, the first-ever orca show was performed by a female orca named Shamu at SeaWorld San Diego. Shamu, like Tilikum, was kidnapped before the Marine Mammal Protection Act was enacted in1972—during Shamu's capture, her mother was shot with a harpoon and killed before the young orca's very eyes by a marine "cowboy" named Ted Griffin. Griffin's partner, Don Goldsberry, later worked for SeaWorld and was assigned to bring orcas into the park. He continued slaughtering orcas, and at one point, he hired divers to slit open the bellies of four orcas, fill them with rocks, put anchors around their tails, and sink them to the bottom of the ocean so that their deaths would not be discovered.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 10:11am PT
I love dogs too and think people who leave them at home all day alone should not get to have them

I am so grateful the film was made so the cause can gain momentum and possibly get results.

Here are 7 more things you didn't know about SeaWorld.


In nature, orcas choose their own mates. But at SeaWorld, orcas are forced to breed on a regular basis. Male orcas are trained to float on their backs, and their trainers masturbate them to collect their sperm. Females are artificially inseminated and forced to breed at a much younger age than they would in nature. Katina was forced to breed when she was only 9 years old (at least five years earlier than she would have naturally bred in the wild). Now she is used as a virtual breeding machine and is even being inbred with her own sons.


SeaWorld's corporate incident log contains reports of more than 100 incidents of orca aggression at its parks, often resulting in injuries to humans and even causing one death by extensive internal bleeding.


Orcas in the wild have an average life expectancy of 30 to 50 years—their estimated maximum life span is 60 to 70 years for males and 80 to 90 for females. The median age of orcas in captivity is only 9.


In captivity, all male orcas have collapsed dorsal fins as adults, which is a sign of an unhealthy orca. SeaWorld claims that this condition is common and natural for all orcas. However, collapsed dorsal fins are caused by the unnatural environment of captivity and are rarely seen in the wild. Only 1 to 5 percent of male orcas in some populations (and none in others) have fully collapsed dorsal fins.


SeaWorld has a long history of pressuring authorities. Following a 2006 attack by an orca on a trainer at SeaWorld in San Diego, the California division of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration concluded that it was "only a matter of time" before someone was killed while interacting with the orcas. However, the agency withdrew these findings after being pressured by SeaWorld. A further investigation into these attacks could have prevented injuries and deaths.


On January 11, the USDA issued an official warning to SeaWorld San Antonio for its "repeated failure to provide drain covers that are securely fastened in order to minimize the potential risk of animal entrapment"—a violation that resulted in the death of a sea lion.


SeaWorld confines whales and dolphins—who often swim up to 100 miles a day in the wild—to tanks that, to them, are the size of a bathtub.

SeaWorld presents itself as a family establishment full of fun activities. However, these "fun activities" harm animals physically and emotionally. Please say NO to SeaWorld and its enslavement of animals by refusing to buy a ticket and asking the marine park to release these animals to sanctuaries.




locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:14am PT



"Male orcas are trained to float on their backs, and their trainers masturbate them to collect their sperm."...

I'm beginning to change my mind thinking they don't have it so bad afterall...

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:58am PT



*RIGHT ON KAREN!! I agree. I was so inspired by your post that I kicked my dog out of the house and said: "LIVE FREE PUP". The damned thing has been walking aimlessly around the house ever since despite the send off we had which also included playing the song "Born Free" repetitively. Now we've been relegated to ducking behind the couch and keeping the lights off pretending to not be home when she gets close, but have been unsuccessful in our efforts so far to rehabilitate the dog and get her to start chasing cats, voles and squirrels for dinner. I said: "GO FORTH AND LIFE FREE LIKE A COYOTE". What's wrong with freedom?


Not sure what to do now, but this ain't working. ................Help!?




karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 11:25am PT
Hey Couchmaster,
Your dog is gonna die out there.
He is not a wild animal.


Here are some links for some petitions to try to end this archaic and cruel treatment of wild animals.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ask-sea-world-to-release-their-orcas-and-dolpins

http://www.change.org/petitions/seaworld-end-captive-orca-breeding-program‎;

http://www.change.org/petitions/seaworld-inc-humanely-release-the-orca-whales

www2.peta.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&id=2945‎

forcechange.com/35936/ban-imprisonment-of-orca-whales-at-seaworld

forcechange.com/13840/stop-the-enslavement-of-orcas-by-seaworld


therainforestsite.greatergood.com/clickToGive/.../petition/BoycottSeaWorld



Credit: karen roseme
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:34am PT
Tried to free my parrot this am,, i took her out side said FLY FREE max! She just sat there on my shoulder shivering. Then she squawked,,"were done here"..Kicked my dog out too, but she was knocking at the door within two minutes. Guess my captive program is better than cold harsh reality.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:48am PT

No one NEEDS to watch a bunch of whales and dolphins playing "Stupid Human Tricks"...



EDITED:


Person 1 = "Wow!!! Look!!! They can make a Dolphin jump through a hoop"...



Person 2 = "Simply AMAZING!!!"...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:55am PT
It is to the little boys and girls, that MAY become so enthralled by them a new Oceanographer may be born. A new Veterinarian may be born. Thats who Sea world and such places are really for.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:58am PT

^^^

You sure that doesn't just reinforce the idea that it's OK to capture and abuse the poor creatures that have ZERO choice in the matter???...





Take the kids out on TOUR BOATS for the REAL DEAL HOLLYFIELDTRIP...

Just a thought...

Probably teach them MORE about what is better for the animals...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
I with you locker!

“SeaWorld likes to claim their shows are educational, but how educational is it watching a sea lion bounce a ball off its nose, an Orca splash an audience, or a dolphin dragging a trainer around a swimming pool? Come on, we have plenty of great nature documentaries that are truly educational. Observing sea life in its natural state is awe-inspiring and much more educational for children and adults. Never buy a ticket!”
—Ty Ganske, Austin, Texas

“I will never forget the dolphin "petting" tank where you buy fish to feed them and pet them. ALL of their noses were badly injured and scarred from abuse. I wondered first, what kind of person injures a dolphin purposefully, then I thought, what kind of place allows dolphins to be abused by its patrons? We have not been back since.”
—Dean Parsons, Upland, California
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:05pm PT


I went ONCE to a show at SeaWorld and it depressed me...

Karen nails it with the above quotes...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
Killer whales- found in every ocean around the globe. The APEX predator of the ocean with no known natural enemy. In short THEY ARE DOING FINE and dandy. Try worrying about real problems instead.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:24pm PT


"In short THEY ARE DOING FINE and dandy."...

Well then by ALL means let's go rent a boat a KILL a few!!!...

Right???...

Why not???...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
were gonna need a BIGGER boat!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
I say we take all the horses at Santa Anita out to where Anderson lives, and turn them loose there. They should fit right in.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:28pm PT

This IS a "Real problem" to Karen (and the Dolphins and Whales) and I personally believe it to be a worthy cause...

To minimalize someone else's idea of what is important, comparing it to your own value system, is an unfair way to view things...



Each of us has CHOICE to choose what we feel is important to us...




Just thought I'd toss that in the mix...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
Chaz,, your a little late on that one,, plenty of cali horses have been let loose here.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jan 1, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
You're right, Karen. Don't get into a debate with Rong.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:12pm PT


Ron...

I am going to TRY and make a point...

No idea how well this is going to go...

LOL!!!...



Sometime back you posted that you personally were not into creating pieces of "ART" so to speak, with your Taxidermy work...

For you, you wrote that it is important to represent the animals as best you can, to appear as NATURAL as possible...

Or something along those lines...

I took that to mean that you felt you wanted to kind of HONOR the animals you work on (again, something along those lines)...



I can't find the words I am searching for at the moment...

But do you get where I am trying to go???...





EDITED:


This feels NATURAL:

...



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:18pm PT


How NATURAL feeling is THIS and does it HONOR the animals???...

...



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
No clue as to what your getting at.

But i can tell you that these heart string type attacks by eco groups RARELY have factual basis. The Spotted owl for instance. The Sage grouse for another. Mustangs for the worst. They falsify info to illicit the heart string reaction and most of any money they collect goes right into a pocket. But a few captive orcas and dolphins is HARDLY an issue to be upset about. There are prolly a billion aquariums in houses holding millions of fish captive. SO WHAT. Orcas swim in EVERY ocean round the world. They are the most widley distributed alpha predator of them all. And if Sea world wants a few - BFD...As also stated by the OP upthread, no one should even have a dog unless they can be with it 24/7..Really?


There has been all manner of issues in ocean fish, but it sure as heck hasnt slowed the SUSHI bars now has it.





edit: Locker, you should hear the absolute bullshyt being spread by wild horse groups. 100% hog wash.. And the people (not from round here) eat it up with a magnum sized spoon. Easily the largest invasive problem ever created by man in the west but according to those groups they are GAWD like. The latest greates horse group to hit nev is being run by a CA woman who just moved here two years ago and "fell in love" with those feral nags.
Now she speaks on radio shows like some expert- and knows zero factual knowledge. But she IS taking in donataions..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:27pm PT


You should remember since you wrote and posted it...

Someone asked you if you were into creating "ART" when you do your work...

Meaning do you CREATE similar to the CAT shot I included...

Your response was that you personally were NOT into that type of Taxidermy because you felt it didn't represent the animals as the naturally appear...

The reason I bring this up is because your attiture here towards the Whales and Dolphins seems to contradict that way of thinking...




EDITED:

Ron...

Would you make this???...

You claimed before that it's not your thing and then explained why...

...





Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
Agreed, fish are people, too. But cetaceans are a lot more like people - we're just not smart enough
to be able to communicate with them. Ron, how would you like being imprisoned and 'coerced'
into performing because it relieves your boredom and frustration over your captors' inability to
communicate with you?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:35pm PT


"No clue as to what your getting at."...

Still???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
Not at all Locker. Im THANKFUL for all of the research done from captive programs. Without those we wouldnt know anything of the species. Do i feel empathy for the captives, yes. But i also realize that there must always be those making sacrifices to help the masses. What about the military dolphins? They swim free yet fully co-operate with their human handlers. AMAZING stuff has been done with them. All stemming from captive studies.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:39pm PT


Would you make that CAT thing above???...

If not, WHY???...

Maybe because like you already posted...

IT'S UNNATURAL looking???...




Hmmm...





I also appreciate the knowledge that has been gained from research...

But methods change with time and I'd venture to say it's time for CHANGE...


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:45pm PT

"What about the military dolphins? They swim free yet fully co-operate with their human handlers"...


You do see the difference between the two scenarios???...

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
Oh... so rong is now in here polluting this thread? LOL...

Karen... if by chance you use Firefox to browse this site I suggest you install the grease monkey script. You can "grease" people and never have to read their stupid and inane idiotic crap again. Rong was the first one to go for me.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:12pm PT


I don't see Ron as "Polluting" this thread...

He is just voicing his viewpoint on the subject...





Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
friggin sushi pimp whining about seaworld.. ohww the Irony....
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
I'm voicing my viewpoint locker...

Back on topic... One of the major issues those of us fighting for the cetaceans are witnessing is what the industry is doing to capture these animals - dolphins in particular (though Orcas are dolphins I'm not referring to them). The Cove uncovers the story of how these marine parks are capturing and killing dolphins to support their industry. It's a sickening event and must stop. The dolphins that are captured in Taiji are taken for amusement parks. The rest are slaughtered and their meat sold. Most of the time the meat is mislabeled on purpose as whale meat. Dolphin meat has toxic levels of mercury and should not be eaten. Anyone that thinks otherwise is probably already almost brain dead from mercury poisoning.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
Yes voicing his^^^^^ while ducking others. P-U-N-T-E-R....
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
This is part of an interview with the director Gabriela Cowperthwaite of the movie Blackkfish.

Jonathon Sharp: Have you ever been to SeaWorld as a visitor?

Gabriela Cowperthwaite: I did. I actually took my kids to SeaWorld, and took my nephew to SeaWorld-San Diego also. Went to SeaWorld as a kid. So I have been several times before I made the documentary.

JS: So you have a rounded history as a SeaWorld consumer, in a way.

GC: Yeah. When I started the documentary I thought I was making a documentary about a trainer incident, essentially like a one-off…And it was only when I sort of peeled back the ending that I realized this is a much larger story…
I went in with a question: How did a top trainer get killed by a killer whale? Like, a beloved killer whale. Then I found out that he killed twice before. So I started looking at those cases.



I’m curious how you view SeaWorld now. Do you not like the company, or do you not like their practices? Can you expand on that for me?

GC: I just told the story. I just told the facts. I come out of that experience, having made the film over two years, feeling very strongly that killer whales are not suitable for captivity. That, you know, this is still a really lucrative business model for SeaWorld. You know, it’s a $2.7 billion a year company. And they’ve had no reason to have their business model ever challenged.
I’m hopeful, actually, that this whole thing raises a debate, raises a bunch of questions in people’s heads, and that SeaWorld is…um…I think they’re fully equipped — they’re certainly financially equipped — to [bring killer whales] into rehabilitation and release facilities: sea pen facilities whereby you cordon off part of the ocean cove with a net and release the whales into that.

People think: Why can’y you just release them into the wild ocean? You can’t. [The whales] don’t know how to eat live fish yet. They are hopped up on antibiotics, and they probably wouldn’t last very long. But if you do it in a controlled ocean pen, they have the ability to roam, meet other killer whales for the first time in their lives. And I think SeaWorld could profit from that. I think people would come and actually enjoy seeing the real thing, you know, real killer whales doing what killer whales do.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:26pm PT

"I'm voicing my viewpoint locker..."...

True...

But Ron is voicing his on the subject of the OP and you are voicing yours on RON...

;-)



EDITED:

PS...

Notice the spelling...

R..

O...

N...



NOT Rong!!!...

Why you ALL keep following each other around with THAT one only shows that you are NOT thinking for yourselves...

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
SeaWorld is a 2.7 billion dollar company!!!!

They don't want to change their business model but they need to.

Only we can stop them!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:30pm PT

" Only we can stop them!"...



The biggest of the big problem lies in the way...



"SeaWorld is a 2.7 billion dollar company!!!!"...

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
Karen - a couple more links:

http://www.facebook.com/BlackberryJ27?ref=stream

http://www.facebook.com/ricobarrysdolphinproject

http://www.orcanetwork.org/Main/

Sign up for their email. You'll get fun emails like this one:

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=48d70200-84a4-4d6c-bdef-8c93018f3bc1&c=7ff827e0-3da3-11e3-9aa8-d4ae527599c4&ch=7ffc4690-3da3-11e3-9aa8-d4ae527599c4

I really enjoy hearing about J and L pod. Going to visit them next summer.

And donate donate donate! Pick your favorites. As yesterday was the end of the year I donated a couple hundred to WildAid, OPS, Environment Defense Fund, Monterey Bay Aquarium, Project Aware, Blue Sphere Foundation and also to Jeff Lowe for Metanoia.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
He ignored ya Locker LMAO!

and Yah,, 2.7 BILLION seems like a very popular thing eh?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
Great links Nature!

Here is another interesting part of the interview with the director of Blackfish.

JS: What’s the most surprising thing you learned doing this report?

GC: I think the first most surprising thing I learned was how whales fight with each other in captivity, consistently. I guess, I always hoped…that they were in these, like, family pods. That they had each other…To learn that they actually fight constantly — because, you know, animals like this are always vying for hierarchy, right? And once they sort of establish a hierarchy like in the wild, the submissive animal can kind of flee the scene, and say, ‘Touché, you win’…But in captivity, they are faced with that conflict every day, because of the small confines. So they have to kind of be faced with conflict. And these are whales [that the submissive whales] don’t necessarily get along with or even understand. They don’t speak the same languages and share the same sort of genetic pool. So these are unnatural pods of families. And that was just particularly disheartening for me.
I guess I wanted it to be that these were happy animals. You know, [being in captivity] is not the greatest of situations but they ultimately have each other. And to think they don’t seems particularly sad.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:41pm PT

Ron...

He read what I wrote...

I'm sure he sees my point...

Don't think he agrees necessarily and that's OK...






Unlike some here I don't have a problem with opposing views...

For me, they help to solidify my own personal viewpoints...

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
"SeaWorld is a 2.7 billion dollar company!!!!"



That means a lot of people's livelihoods depend on these whales.

A relative few whales in captivity seems like a small price, for all the economic activity generated.

Every so often, the Indians up around Forks (WA) will chase a whale down, and blow its brains out with a .50 BMG. What do we get for that? Besides a bunch of Indians feeling good about themselves?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:43pm PT


"That means a lot of people's livelihoods depend on these whales.

A relative few whales in captivity seems like a small price, for all the economic activity generated."
...



and yet ANOTHER valid viewpoint appears...

It ALL needs to be factored in and weighed out...



nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
more bullshit from the idiot. Though I suppose there are also these people that would be put out of work if the capture and feeding of this entertainment system were to stop.





nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
What they need is a new business model!

Captivity is wrong for whales and dolphins.

Maybe they need new rides at SeaWorld.
It is an amusement park after all.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:55pm PT

Isn't it so cool to be HUMAN and able to decide which life is more important???...



A whale should live...

That damned Tuna belongs on my plate!!!...
'

LOL!!!...






But I AGREE that the Whales and Dolphins are being GREATLY MISTREATED and like you and many others here WISH it would stop...








EDITED:

"Maybe they need new rides at SeaWorld.
It is an amusement park after all."
...


How about BOAT RIDES out into the ocean for some REAL education???...

;-)




nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
1.1 Billion people of this world depend on the oceans for their source of protein.

Dolphins are not food.

Actually Karen, that's what many of us are arguing for. A new business model. Perhaps they should go 503.c instead of making millions and millions of dollars off of captive slaves.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Indeed Locker. Orcas arent endangered - they are in EVERY oceans on the globe. In every area of those oceans. A few captives that benefit the rest through knowledge gained and an entire economic structure seem to me to be a win win. And if the interaction between dolphins and humans was so undesirable, they wouldnt return to handlers in ocean settings would they? They are still working with new ideas and dolphins. They do that because they get rewarded and it interests them. They are smarter than we know at this juncture. Its actually a fascinating science.




edit: Now nature is ASSuming any copied quotes by Locker is me.. What a fuggin phooool.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:02pm PT

"Dolphins are not food."

THEAD DRIFT TO DISAGREE:

...

You're weren't specific enough...

;-)

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
Mahi-Mahi dood ;)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
Those just LOVE to become sushi....
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:04pm PT


"edit: Now nature is ASSuming any copied quotes by Locker is me.. What a fuggin phooool."...


Ron...

Nature was referring to my post about the Whale vs Tuna on the plate...

Pretty sure he wasn't misquoting you...



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:05pm PT


"Mahi-Mahi dood"

Regional...


GOOGLE: DOLPHIN FISH

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
"more bullshit from the idiot." = i believe he was refrencing me...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:07pm PT


""more bullshit from the idiot." = i believe he was refrencing me... "




RON...


LOL!!!...

On THAT one you are probably correct...

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmcwilliams/2014/01/01/seaworlds-popularity-tanks-as-blackfish-documentary-makes-a-splash/
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 04:13pm PT

...

...


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
Most companies need to go though significant changes to survive.
Get rid of outdated ideas and get new progressive ones in their place.

The whales and dolphins in captivity need to be released in controlled ocean pens, where they have the ability to roam, meet other killer whales for the first time in their lives.

I think SeaWorld could profit from that. I think people would come and actually enjoy seeing the real thing, you know, real killer whales doing what killer whales do.

They could rehabilitate other injured sea animals and release them back into the wild.

Maybe they could make a ride about being a whale swimming around in a cart that looks like a whale

Could these ideas be part of the new business model?

Don't worry guys the CEO's will still make their millions and there will be still plenty of minimum wage jobs for everyone else.
Yippie!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 04:33pm PT
locker... thanks for that first video.

sincerely,
your Son
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 1, 2014 - 04:37pm PT

Son...

did you watch the second???...



I LOVE it!!!...

The whale doesn't do sqwat!!!...

LOL!!!...




EDITED:

If the Whales would just do that ALL the time, there would be no show...



nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
still watching the first one.



Edit: I just watched it. Tilly just did laps and a GFYS style. No surprise there were no trainers in the water with him. At that point he had killed three people.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
In the news today in a Seattle post

Watching this parade on New Years Day has been a family tradition of mine, and this year HGTV showed the parade commercial-free. It was the best coverage I have watched in years, they paid attention to everything including all the horses (which the networks tend to gloss over in their coverage). As always, the floats are works of art covered entirely in natural materials – roses, seeds, seaweed etc.

While many people expected protesters for the more controversial floats, SeaWorld was the only one to bring the cloud of police protection into the otherwise sunny day. What were they thinking?

They should have stayed home or accepted that people would object to their presence. Some people may think that SeaWorld should have the right have a float, but when does the right of a mega corporation trump human sensitivity?

Credit: karen roseme



full riot gear
full riot gear
Credit: karen roseme

This is so frightening to the management at SeaWorld not because they fear what the protesters will do, but instead what the protesters represent; that the public will no longer tolerate corporate greed at the expense of animal welfare. And they keep reacting badly, stuck in the business model from 50 years ago as they celebrate their 50th year.

A half a century is plenty of time to have gotten it right.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
Cite your source for me so I can share it with others. Or are these personal photos of yours?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
sorry Seattle post
also in the news...

Rose McCoy, a 12-year-old activist, made headlines when she jumped the barricade at the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade in November to protest the SeaWorld float. Now, she's planning on speaking out against the amusement park's treatment of whales at the Rose Parade.

"For me, I cannot imagine being separated from my mom to sell tickets to a theme park and being forever captive in a small tank," McCoy tells LAist. "I want every family to know that's what the whales at SeaWorld have to go through."

She flew out from New York to L.A. for the Rose Parade, and along with PETA, will be protesting against the SeaWorld float. A rep from PETA describes the float as depicting "free-living orcas frolicking in the open sea."

More people have been protesting SeaWorld since the release of Blackfish, a documentary that takes an in-depth at the treatment of whales held in captivity at the park. The documentary makes the case that orcas are far too intelligent to be held in captivity, and it spurred McCoy into action.

"For my whole life, I've always been against animals in captivity and Blackfish was more of an educational thing for me about the problems in SeaWorld," she says. "It's one of the larger problems that I know more about to protest."

McCoy jumped the barricade at the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade after she felt the protest PETA planned had fell apart. She stood in front of the line of protesters holding a sign that said, "Boycott SeaWorld," before a police officer brought her back to her mother.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
oh duh... you stated that. website or paper?

http://www.amazon.com/Private-Label-Orca-Whale-Mailbox/dp/B0002RI2K6

http://www.amazon.com/Co-Union-78-03-036-Killer-Whale-Horn/dp/B002BW3OUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388616729&sr=8-1&keywords=killer+whale+horn
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
Nature , That was from the newspaper.
Orca mailbox??

Nice Frontline show Locker! I also liked the first one!

19 people were arrested today protesting the SeaWorld float!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 06:25pm PT
What's the source of those images?


maybe the story will be on the website tomorrow.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 06:29pm PT
I goggled rose bowl SeaWorld protest and the Seattle post article and pictures showed up.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
Great one Nature!
More in the news from the Examiner

Extra security was present for the SeaWorld float and protesters had promised to be vocal. However besides the chanting and stopping the parade for a few minutes, it was overall peaceful. The Rose Bowl Parade is seen on a national level and it was the perfect place to highlight the disliked treatment of the whales.

There hasn’t been word on whether the protesters will be charged for stopping the parade. It’s doubtful as the individuals has so much support in Pasadena. People watching on television might not have seen it, but fans watching the parade were booing when the SeaWorld float rolled by. These folks were the average people who might travel to the theme park to see the animals so it's obvious PETA's message is getting out to the world.

PEOPLE WERE BOOING THE SEAWORLD FLOAT!
Yay !!!
Time for a change SeaWorld!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
This is particularly awful


Barbaric!
Barbaric!
Credit: karen roseme



SeaWorld, Russia, plus China Equals a Captive Dolphin and Whale Disaster
Posted on November 8, 2013 | By candace_calloway_whiting
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Will some of the recently captured orcas wind up in China?


Orca captures result in the injury, death, and disruption of wild pods (captured for Miami Seaquarium, please see below).
SeaWorld, while claiming that their killer whale shows are an exemplary blend of education and entertainment, has inadvertently managed to teach us that whales don’t belong in captivity, yet simultaneously they have also taught other countries – including countries such as China that have little respect for animal life – that there are huge profits to be had at the animals’ expense.

According to an article by Tim Zimmermann, A Surge In Wild Orca Capture for Killer Whale Shows, Russia’s recent capture of 10 wild orcas may result in some of them going to aquariums in China:

“It seems like China is becoming, or has become, a primary source of the demand for belugas, dolphins, and orcas alike,” says Courtney Vail, Campaigns and Programs Manager for Whale And Dolphin Conservation, which helps sponsor Hoyt’s and FEROP’s work. “Chinese facilities also source from the Taiji dolphin hunts. Twenty-four dolphins were exported from Japan to China in 2012, and CITES trade reports suggest over 60 wild-caught belugas were exported from Russia to China between 2008 and 2010 alone.”

The thought of orcas in Chinese hands is particularly onerous, as that country has no laws to protect animals from cruelty and abuse. That fact, coupled with deeply held superstitious beliefs by large segments of the Chinese population means that animals in that country suffer on all levels – the fur trade, scientific research, medicine, dietary preferences, and amusement. Dogs are baked and boiled alive (thought to taste better), other animals are skinned alive for fur, then sprayed with water to keep them moist until killed for food. Bears are cut to produce bile for Chinese Medicine. (A simple google search will show you more than you want to know on animal cruelty in China.)

Live animals sealed in plastic for key chains, which will be discarded when the animal finally suffocates.

http://youtu.be/UU1XGXMELyw


An orca in a Chinese aquarium may receive better care than most animals there are entitled to, due to the whales’ high price tag as well as to the standards set by other aquariums. In order to belong to an accredited organization, any aquarium or theme park must care for animals by certain minimum standards – but when you think about it, even in the U.S. amusement parks such as the Miami Seaquarium are able to dodge the minimum standards as set by law as well as by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums. In the photo of Miami Seaquarium below, one lone orca has been forced to live in a tank that is substandard in size for over 40 years. (Freelolita.org). As far as I am aware, there are no aquariums on mainland China that are even accredited at this point anyway (there are two in Hong Kong which is independently governed).












http://youtu.be/UU1XGXMELyw
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
The Honduran government called my father in the 90's because they wanted some dolphins for a research institute.

He responded and caught seven keepers the next week. A hurricane came through shortly after and ripped the pens open.

All the dolphins stayed outside (free!!!) as new pens were rebuilt (3 weeks later). When completed they all swam in and started doing spontaneous tricks!

Just curious explain that?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
So your argument is, "END THE CAPTIVITY OF WHALES AND DOLPHINS".

WHY?

Why not harvest them sustainably?

and by harvest I mean butcher or keep in enclosures?

Simple thoughts from a rationale fellow.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
your two responses are so pathetically disgusting that rather than responding I'm just going to grease you and make it so you don't exist.

Stupid f*#king questions.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:56pm PT
Nature- I am curious what you are disgusted by? I am happy to elaborate.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 1, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
Nature writes:

"your two responses are so pathetically disgusting that rather than responding I'm just going to grease you and make it so you don't exist."




You could just stick your fingers in your ears, and shout "ME-ME-ME-ME...".

It'd be just as effective, and no less childish.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
Not childish, but real world. I know, I live in it.

Are you upset I gave you some inside knowledge on Honduran dolphins?

I was simply trying to have a conversation based on facts.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 1, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
Everyone from the Vancouver mainland takes the ferry to Victoria through Active Pass. It's yours to experience for the price of passage and this is a great moment of why it's so active:



The ocean isn't so good if you want to buy an experience. The local whale watching outfits have been in trouble on occasion for not following the rules. This does cause anxiety to creatures who just wanna be whales and mind their own business.

Business is all about opportunity though ! (Dude dropped in !)

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:01am PT
I know this is toxic water, but why not have a fishery for sustainable aquatic mammals?

seal, whale, sea otter, porpoise, dolphin and species that are in healthy population numbers?

Like catching brook tout or cutthroats/ shooting a deer or turkey? Just curious on your thoughts?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:10am PT
Q-Ball,

Come on, this isn't some new moment in human ruefulness. It's OK to say things do progress without feeling like you need a shower concerning changing your mind from what was doctrinaire.

Is it so hard to find some creatures just fine the way they are ? Why does everything have to be managed, which is poor English for saying consumed.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:14am PT
Just curious to talk facts... No harm in looking at them? (the facts) Wish you the best!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:19am PT
Reilly said it best, "I don't approve of slavery".
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:21am PT
is is a total crime against nature to keep whales and dolphins in captivity. period. steve schneider
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:24am PT
What if they approve the "Slavery"?
Howie Felderbush

Mountain climber
the homeless camp
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:29am PT
Keeping them in captivity like that should be a crime. Killing them for me to eat a fish taco is totally cool tho
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:31am PT
If a wolf befriends you, it might follow you around. It has every opportunity to leave.

Dolphins have the same ability, they can jump the pen any day off the week.

Is it wrong that they hung around a hurricane destroyed facility?

Aside from that, why are all marine mammals off limits?

Only respond if you have an open mind
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:32am PT
Mr Brennan writes:

"The ocean isn't so good if you want to buy an experience. The local whale watching outfits have been in trouble on occasion for not following the rules. This does cause anxiety to creatures who just wanna be whales and mind their own business."





Last September, I spent a few hours standing around Cattle Point Lighthouse ( San Juan Island ), watching the whale watchers on the Haro Strait.

Almost all the marine traffic I saw that afternoon were whale watching boats. You could tell that's what they were doing - darting around aimlessly, full of people all standing shoulder-to-shoulder. Trying to intercept whale pods, and get as close as they could to them. Good for the whales? Maybe in a Sea World kind of way that Anderson would understand.

Remember, if you pay for a whale watching cruise, your dollars are supporting what looks to me like whale harassment.

If your whale boat captain obeys the law, you won't get any closer than 600 feet of a whale. That's over a tenth-of-a-mile away.

Whale watching boat trips are a poor investment.

I heard the hot tip for whale watching is Lime Kiln Point ( San Juan Island ). There, the whales pass within 100' of shore, pushed there no doubt by pressure from whale watching boats.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:43am PT
Chaz- it is hard to harpoon one if you don't get closer! Is that a difficult thought?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:52am PT
It has become a controversial thing Chaz.
But what drives it ?

Orcas were available for viewing on a hit or miss basis for anyone as long as your disappointment at not seeing them was part of the experience.

I've spent years in the bush but saw my first Grizzly at age 50. It was really something worth waiting for.

As for the personal politics of Orcas, they seem to have a plan and it doesn't involve help. Except from each other...

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 2, 2014 - 01:45am PT
Mr Brennan writes:

"It has become a controversial thing Chaz.
But what drives it ?"



I think we both know. It's cash.

The whale watching boats I saw were packed with people. Paying what each? $25 $50 $85 That's a lot of cash, especially when anything else your boat is good for produces chancy and inconsistent income at best.

The whale watcher captain caught his fish before he even leaves port.

Then, they're out in the Haro Strait. World Class whale watching territory, if there ever was any. You can see whales way off in the distance - like a couple hundred yards away - and the captain either has to explain to the paying passengers why they're not getting any closer, or violate the law and satisfy the customers.

moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 2, 2014 - 01:58am PT
I sympathize with whales. There is this special connection...

I am a dork.

;)
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 10:07am PT
q-ball Sorry to say this sounds like a crock!
got any proof?


The Honduran government called my father in the 90's because they wanted some dolphins for a research institute.

He responded and caught seven keepers the next week. A hurricane came through shortly after and ripped the pens open.

All the dolphins stayed outside (free!!!) as new pens were rebuilt (3 weeks later). When completed they all swam in and started doing spontaneous tricks!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 10:13am PT
This is from an article I found online at the Center for Whale Research

Cetacean brain development is an example of parallel evolution, adapted to the ocean environment.

The brains of orcas are roughly four times larger than ours, have a greater surface area relative to brain weight, have enhanced development in different areas, and some of their nerve transmission speeds greatly exceed ours.

Credit: karen roseme


Naturally enough we humans don’t much like the idea that another species might rival us in that which we feel sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom: our intelligence. And so we have come up with many ways to explain it.

At first people pointed out the difference in our body sizes, and thought that it was obvious that bigger animals needed bigger brains…







...except that animals like the stegosaurus, close in size to orcas, had a brain about the size of a walnut. Not that they were mental giants, but they got by.

Credit: karen roseme


The next idea to come along was a comparison between the size of an animal and how large it’s brain is, and by that measure an orca would clearly be smarter than a stegosaurus, but not as smart as we humans. Unfortunately for us, both hummingbirds and squirrel monkeys beat us in that measurement (we are about 2%, while hummingbirds are about 4%).

Now we have come up with a way of comparing brain size called “Encephalization Quotient”, or EQ, in which we compare how big an animal’s brain is versus how big you would expect it to be relative to the overall size. At last we win, our brains are 7 times bigger than you would expect them to be for our size, while our closest rivals are dolphins and toothed whales, which come in at the 2 to 5 times range. Whew! Except…

Their brains have a greater surface to volume ratio than ours. What this means, basically, is that the part of the brain that integrates information is much greater. Although scientists at first dismissed this by assuming that the tissue was ‘primitive’, current research disputes that.


Research also overturns the notions that the types of cells are related to adapting to ocean temperatures, or that the large brains are completely dedicated to processing echolocation information. The layout of their brains is different from ours – some regions (such as those associated with smell) are diminished or absent, while others, such as the vision center, are moved around, and the structures associated with hearing are enhanced.


Credit: karen roseme

Fortunately, scientists are beginning to concentrate more on learning how the cetaceans use their massive brains, and less on coming up with ways to dismiss and diminish the evidence that we share this planet with other intelligent beings.

The recent discovery that cetaceans have a special type of cell (called a spindle cell) previously found only in humans and the great apes implies that they aren’t just intelligent, but they are sentient and feeling as well: those cells are associated with our deeper emotions and social bonds.




“Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding.” Ralph Waldo Emerson
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 10:31am PT
Love your post Jim Brennan!

Love this site too!


http://www.endcetaceancaptivity.com/


EMPTY THE TANKS AT SEA LIFE PARK

Fortunately, scientists are beginning to concentrate more on learning how the cetaceans use their massive brains, and less on coming up with ways to dismiss and diminish the evidence that we share this planet with other intelligent beings!!!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
Good point Tioga,

I found this in New Scientist

"Research use of animals so closely related to humans should not proceed unless it offers insights not possible with other animal models, and unless it is of sufficient scientific or health value to offset the moral costs," says Jeffrey Kahn at the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics in Baltimore, Maryland, chair of the committee. "We found very few cases that satisfy these criteria."

At least it's a start.
I'm against any of it. I think they should use human volunteers!

In the news today

PASADENA (CBSLA.com) — A 12-year-old girl made a splash Wednesday when she was arrested during a protest against Sea World’s participation in the 125th Annual Rose Parade.
Rose McCoy, a straight-A student, was among those arrested for participating in the protest organized by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) against Sea World’s float.
“I want every family to know Sea World is a cruel industry,” McCoy said.

Credit: karen roseme
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:51pm PT
Straight A's are good, but the poor kid has just limited her choice of universities because now she has an arrest record.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 2, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
Peta has never given a DIME to actually benefit wildlife. They disgust me royally.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Jan 2, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
I have not been to Sea World since my youth. But they have to be better than the ones I Saw down in the Yucatan peninsula recently. Places like Xel-Ha where fat tourists grope and fondle the poor dolphins. I did not do it as it cost more than the entrance fee. But we listened to the trainer talk about how wonderful they were and loved being petted.(as opposed to being the main course at a dinner..I guess)One poor dolphin had only one eye...And they had made up some cute name...It was a sad site...They have many places that do the interact with dolphin theme...Xcaret,X-plor,Xel-Ha to name a few. Also you can pay to pet a Leopard or lion cub which is real nice and cudddly until it scratches somebody and they kill it and steal a new one...So in that sense I guess the ones up here have "First World Problems" compared to Mexico. We told many folks not to do it because of the cruel treatment that we observed. One poor old dolphin...I swear...had a frown and was kind of just floating around...A real buzz-kill..
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 2, 2014 - 01:20pm PT
http://www.emptythetanksworldwide.com/seaworld-sucks



When I was about 22 I was surfing Imperial Beach. It was about a four foot day. Late in the session I looked up to see a nice right pealing wave and in it were four dolphins. They were coming right at me. At first I thought shark. But as they got closer and rode the wave I realized they were dolphins.

They swam right under me.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
Awesome experience Nature!

Time for a new business model Sea World your old ones not working anymore!

http://youtu.be/1eGEJTLB0LM
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
**q-ball Sorry to say this sounds like a crock!
got any proof?**

Karen Roseme, yes I have proof. Have you ever heard of the Bay Islands, specifically Roatan?

Where do you think those dolphins came from at the marine studies institute? It is located right next to AKR (Anthony's Key Resort). I grew up in Honduras (my little bitty years).

I wish I had been older so I could have participated in the capture. We also had a pilot whale for a while that beached itself nearby. We kept it in a pen for 6 months then released it once it tried to drown a person.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 04:37pm PT
With my buddies Lucho and Rabbit, we would swim the channel to Baileys Key (where the big pen is at). We found/made a hole to crawl under one panel of netting and would play with the dolphins for hours or till we were spotted and ran off!

I still get Christmas cards from Lucho, not sure what became of Rabbit?

Maybe these experiences is what made me become an Aquatic Biologist?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2014 - 05:35pm PT
Q-ball You have a great imagination!








Write a letter to SeaWorld and tell them you and your friends are going to boycott SeaWorld until the stop making wild animals do tricks for food.
Tell them to let the whales and dolphins go, after making sure they can fend for themselves.

GuestCorrespondence@seaworld.com
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
http://www.anthonyskey.com/dolphins/dolphin-activities.htm

If you would like to see an aerial photo of my old stomping grounds try the link. (It did look a bit different 17 years ago)

Do you not believe pertinent science can be gained through a captive population regardless of species?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 2, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
Q-ball You have a great imagination!

I don't need an imagination when I live in reality and try and share true science without an agenda.
It seems you have a hard time excepting that premise on education?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2014 - 10:03am PT
Credit: karen roseme

Credit: karen roseme

The Nonhuman Rights Project is the only organization working toward actual LEGAL rights for members of species other than our own. Our mission is to change the common law status of at least some nonhuman animals from mere “things,” which lack the capacity to possess any legal right, to “persons,” who possess such fundamental rights as bodily integrity and bodily liberty, and those other legal rights to which evolving standards of morality, scientific discovery, and human experience entitle them. Our first cases are being prepared for filing in 2013. Your support of this work is deeply appreciated.


http://www.nonhumanrightsproject.org/?gclid=CLPR-66g4rsCFew7MgodUGQASA
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 3, 2014 - 10:12am PT
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/01/seaworld-responds-to-blackfish-poll.html

http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/blackfish-dodges-a-black-eye-from-sea-world-whatevs_b81247

it keeps getting better!
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 3, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
Karen Roseme, what species are most imperiled? Please be specific, I love biologically specific details on endangered species the world over!

Curious why your add campaign doesn't highlight actual critically endangered species?

-q-ball
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2014 - 10:20am PT
The population of orcas in the wild is unknown.
They are endangered in California Oregon and Washington.

This thread is about ending captivity of dolphins and whales in theme parks around the world so a few rich people can get richer.

These animals may be as smart or smarter than us. That seems particularly horrible to me.
Also It is very sad that their captivity and torture is completely unnecessary.


However, there are so many reasons to be sad for the animals and plants of the world today.
I am saddened buy the fact that so many species are going extinct.


The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate.
Experts calculate that between 0.01 and 0.1% of all species will become extinct each year.
If the low estimate of the number of species out there is true that there are around 2 million different species on our planet then that means between 200 and 2,000 extinctions occur every year.

I feel it is important to try to do something about it.

"You cannot do a kindness too soon, because you never know how soon it will be too late."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, (1803 - 1882) Poet, Philosopher, Naturalist and Ethicist



couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 4, 2014 - 10:50am PT
Karen said:
"Hey Couchmaster, Your dog is gonna die out there.
He is not a wild animal."

What a terrible thing to say. My dog is fine and still won't go away.


I'll go look now.....wait...what's that? OMG!!! HOLY CRAP



Shit
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
OMG!!! Couchmaster!

How long was your dog out there?
Gosh he has such a big head!
What kind of breed was he??? BULGEMELLON???
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
Here is part of an article from national geographic about Blackfish


Opinion: SeaWorld vs. the Whale That Killed Its Trainer


The film Blackfish probes the case of an orca that killed its trainer. Blame is assigned to SeaWorld—rightly so, in my view.

There have been dozens of attacks on trainers by orcas in marine parks around the world. These are not bad whales; they just come with all the instincts of predators, says the author.







The documentary Blackfish opened around the country on July 26, with more splash than usual for a small-budget production, thanks to a preemptive attack on the film by SeaWorld, the marine-park franchise, and the free publicity of the tempest that followed.

Blackfish tells the story of Tilikum, the homicidal killer whale, and his most recent victim, Dawn Brancheau, the SeaWorld trainer he crushed, dismembered, and partially swallowed in 2010. The film is an indictment of SeaWorld, its safety practices, its animal husbandry, its mendacity, and its whole reason for being.


Signs of Trouble

"Only once in history has a killer whale killed a human," I wrote. "That incident, in which Tilikum, a captive whale in British Columbia, pinned his trainer to the pool bottom, drowning her, is generally deemed to have been horseplay, just a misunderstanding, a simple failure of the whale to appreciate the difference between human breath-hold capacity and his own."

This was the explanation put forth by SeaWorld, which had bought Tilikum from Sealand of the Pacific after he killed that first trainer, 20-year-old Keltie Byrne. (Sealand, which immediately went out of business as a consequence of Keltie's death, needed to liquidate its assets. Its orcas Haida II and her baby Kyuquot went to SeaWorld San Antonio. Nootka IV and Tilikum went to SeaWorld Orlando.) I had sense enough to question the horseplay theory. SeaWorld is a multibillion-dollar enterprise entirely dependent on the draw of its killer whales—orcas with reputations as playful and lovable, not murderous. I had little doubt the story had heavy spin.


The Veterinarian's Role


SeaWorld's Letter of Denial

Public relations at SeaWorld remain dismal. In the case of Blackfish, the PR sin has been not been omission, but commission. SeaWorld must have known the content of Blackfish since at least January, when the film screened at the Sundance Festival, but for months the company simply kept quiet—the smart thing to do, obviously. Why risk the "banned in Boston" effect? Why publicize the efforts of the enemy? Then at the last moment the company changed course, sending out its letter to film critics ("In the event you are planning to review this film, we thought you should be apprised of the following.").

This letter, SeaWorld's defense of itself and its attack on the integrity of the Magnolia Films documentary, is a tissue of obvious lies, detailed below.

Bullying: In its letter to film critics about Blackfish, SeaWorld challenges the implication that unlike killer whales in the wild, killer whales in zoos or parks—and specifically Tilikum, the whale involved in Dawn Brancheau's death—are routinely bullied by other whales. The word "bullying" is meaningless when applied to the behavior of an animal like a killer whale. Whales live in a social setting with a dominance hierarchy, both at SeaWorld and in the wild. They express dominance in a variety of ways, including using their teeth to "rake" other whales, in the open ocean as well as in parks.


However, SeaWorld was built by breaking up killer whale families. Every orca colony in every SeaWorld facility began as a kind of orphanage. The founding fathers and mothers in each facility were plucked as calves from their pods, after long chases by aircraft and speedboats tossing bombs, with collateral deaths in nets of siblings and cousins. When Washington State banned SeaWorld from state waters for these practices, SeaWorld moved its collecting operation to Iceland.

Training: The letter claims that SeaWorld has never used punishment-based training on any of its animals, including Tilikum, only positive reinforcement. And the behaviors it reinforces are always within the killer whale's natural range of behaviors.

SeaWorld, it's true, does primarily rely on positive reinforcement, though occasionally it resorts to punishment as a fallback, as former SeaWorld trainers testify in Blackfish, and as ex-trainers of my acquaintance have told me. Positive reinforcement works much better than negative, as the psychologist B.F. Skinner demonstrated long ago.




There is something disheartening about this video, something degrading to the majesty of the killer whale, whether Tilikum feels it or not. And something deeply disquieting. Why, the viewer wonders, is this animal a sperm donor? Samantha Berg, one of the former SeaWorld trainers interviewed in Blackfish, expresses this well. She points out that any pit bull with tendencies like Tilikum's would have been euthanized long before his third homicide, and certainly never would have become the star of a breeding program. Tilikum is the most prolific sperm donor in the history of orca captivity. Today more than half of SeaWorld's orcas have Tilikum genes. It is truly beyond comprehension. What sort of short-sighted greed and recklessness is this?

The ponytail defense: The letter disputes the documentary's assertion that Tilikum attacked and killed Dawn Brancheau because the whale was driven crazy by his years in captivity. SeaWorld claims that Tilikum did not attack Dawn. It says that all evidence indicates that Tilikum became interested in the novelty of Dawn's ponytail in his environment and, as a result, he grabbed it and pulled her into the water.

SeaWorld's contention that Tilikum did not attack Dawn Brancheau is their most craven and unforgivable claim of the "Dear Film Critic" letter. Nothing SeaWorld says in explanation of the attack is true. Dawn's ponytail was not a novelty. Ponytails are commonplace on orca trainers, both women and men—a convenient style for people always in and out of the water. Footage from Blackfish shows Dawn on other days with her hair in a ponytail, happily working with Tilikum and other orcas. The whale did not pull her in by the ponytail, anyway. Video from Blackfish shows Tilikum grabbing her left arm. In court proceedings in the aftermath of her death, as Blackfish makes clear, the "spotter" who thought he had seen Tilikum seize the ponytail retracted that impression. That SeaWorld continues to suggest, three years later, that "all evidence" points to the ponytail is astounding.

The whale did not see the ponytail, or any other part of Dawn, "in his environment." Tilikum's environment is not Florida. Tilikum's environment is the cold, windy, herring-filled seas of Iceland from which he was yanked as a calf. There is no record, in all history, of an orca ever having harmed a human being in that environment, or anywhere else in the ocean. That world, the ocean, is where all killer whales belong and should be. Where Tilikum saw Dawn's ponytail, if he noticed it at all, was in the tank at SeaWorld. The only place killer whales ever kill and injure humans is here, in the confines of tanks like these.

Tilikum became so interested in the novelty of Dawn's ponytail, SeaWorld would have us believe, that he scalped and killed her. The autopsy report points to some impulse rougher than curiosity. In the words of Dr. Joshua Stephany, associate medical examiner for Orlando, Florida:

"

Comments

Cindy Law
I just can't stop thinking something needs to be done to stop Sea World, it's affiliates, and all other water parks. I wanted to know more so I turned to National Geographic and now I am even more fired up!


tiras Prothro
This is a real question. Why do white people feel like they have to play God over people and animals? smh.


didi magnin
Of course Orcas were never meant to spend their lives in swimming pools, be separated from their families - I saw the mother weeping when they took her daughter away. When you see orcas in the wild attacking sealions - then you understand their frustration. When will parks like Seaworld stop showing these magnificent animals to stoopid hoominz????


Molly Emery
Who is this idiot Jacki Blue? Another marketing SeaWorld puppet paid to write supportive posts? Does she realize how ignorant she sounds? She continues to embarrass herself, her intelligence and her moral being. Good God let's stick her in a tiny glass cage, impregnate her, take away her baby and throw her some dead food to keep her in line... and then let's read her comments again in 25 years.

Riveting article, nothing I didnt know already, but worth the read anyhow. SeaWorlds arrogance disgusts me. I believe its only a matter of time before society "evolves" as it always does, and demands ending these barbaric and sickening proceedures, practices, attitudes and behaviors.



One day, our young people will look back and say “I can’t believe we used to do that” when they look at old pictures of what used to be SeaWorld.

Thank you Ken Brower and thank you National Geographic for keeping an open forum. Maybe SeaWorld will write you a desperate letter as well.


Tui Allen
Thank-you for writing this very thoughtful analysis of orcas in captivity. I've been inside the minds of wild cetaceans for many years now while writing as I do from the point of view of dolphins. It makes me feel for them more strongly than you might ever think possible. They belong free in a clean ocean and the tragedy and cruelty of captivity must stop. See my novel Ripple (in Amazon) to see what these animals are like and how they are supposed to live.


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2014 - 10:31am PT






Sea World is in it for the money!!!!

2.7 billion a year
2.7 billion a year
Credit: karen roseme


A lot of rich guys getting richer!


Time to build some rides and quit making wild animals do tricks for food!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:33am PT


"Gosh he has such a big head!
What kind of breed was he??? BULGEMELLON???"
...


LMAO!!!...

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 7, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10556044/Australian-dolphin-that-prefers-to-play-with-humans-than-other-dolphins.html
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 7, 2014 - 06:41pm PT
I went out with someone for several years that was a trainer/performer at Marine Land in PV before it closed. She used to defend the treatment of capitve whales and dolphins and their value for conservation(we didn't agree on this at all).

She also told me that she belonged to PETA, but her PETA was People Eating Tasty Animals.

Anytime you take highly intelligent, social animals and put them into a manmade environment where their natural behavior is totally modified to suit some human purpose there is going to be problems. They can easily become mentally disturbed and even psychotic. This goes for whales, dolphins, elephants, apes etc. They are not like other domesticated animals.

Because some these animals socialize with us we tend to try an anthropomorphize them and think they really like us. We think have some kind of special relationship with us, even though we control almost everything they do by witholding or meeting their basic needs as we see fit. If you think they don't resent that you are not giving them enough credit. They are basically endentured servants for their entire lives, and no amount of garaunteed food, medical care or protection is going to make up for it. Occassionaly they lose it and take out their frustration on someone, usually their "trainer" is the first one to get it.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 09:35am PT
Hey TGT,

That was a great post!

Well said Stahlbro!

"Because some these animals socialize with us we tend to try an anthropomorphize them and think they really like us. We think have some kind of special relationship with us, even though we control almost everything they do by witholding or meeting their basic needs as we see fit. If you think they don't resent that you are not giving them enough credit. They are basically endentured servants for their entire lives, and no amount of garaunteed food, medical care or protection is going to make up for it. Occassionaly they lose it and take out their frustration on someone, usually their "trainer" is the first one to get it."
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 8, 2014 - 09:56am PT
LOL Karen!

BTW, Why was I the only one who seemed sad that Cosmiccragman had captive parrots? I mean, CCman otherwise seems like a good dude, but it seemed like a similar story to Karens about keeping Orcas and Dolphins in captivity.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
"Because some these animals socialize with us we tend to try an anthropomorphize them and think they really like us. We think have some kind of special relationship with us, even though we control almost everything they do by witholding or meeting their basic needs as we see fit. If you think they don't resent that you are not giving them enough credit. They are basically endentured servants for their entire lives, and no amount of garaunteed food, medical care or protection is going to make up for it. Occassionaly they lose it and take out their frustration on someone, usually their "trainer" is the first one to get it."


This goes for Parrots too!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 8, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
Yah rrright Karen.. Your a typical eco freak geek im afraid. Just TRY and "free" my parrot max .. GUD luck with that.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 8, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
Any off y'all ever hooked a dolphin?

Good God they will pull some line!

I would cut the line but I figured the right thing is to make sure to remove the hook?

Sometimes takes an hour or so from hook up to release

thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Jan 8, 2014 - 11:34pm PT
nob'dy likes getting fisted by the world's tallest man. not even sad chlorine dolphins.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#339587
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jan 9, 2014 - 01:14am PT
Well, this answers the question, " Do unrealistic dreamers exist?"

Green before baleen
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2014 - 10:16pm PT




Yuckers! what's that on my line?
Yuckers! what's that on my line?
Credit: karen roseme


Jeepers I wonder how long it will take to remove that hook.
Hey he looks a lot like you Q!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:33am PT
Now Karen,

Don't jump the shark...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 10:20am PT
BTW

We won't know until Jan. 16 whether "Blackfish" has received an Oscar nomination for best documentary.

But "Blackfish" is a best documentary nominee at the BAFTAs --the EE British Academy Film Awards. "Blackfish" recounts the saga of Tilikum, a six-ton killer whale at SeaWorld Orlandothat killed trainer Dawn Brancheau in February 2010.

"Blackfish" debuted at the Sundance Film Festival last year and later aired repeatedly on CNN. The film has produced fierce reactions and prompted Barenaked Ladies, Willie Nelson, Heart and other acts to cancel concerts at SeaWorld.

Yay!
Yay!
Credit: karen roseme


You can write to SeaWorld and let them know what you think.


GuestCorrespondence@seaworld.com
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 11:03am PT
Also,

For those in the San Diego, CA area:

*PROTEST SEAWORLD: This Saturday, January 11 -11 am @ SeaWorld San Diego*

For parking, turn onto S. Shores Park off Friars Rd and park in the boat ramp lot then walk up about half a mile to protest location on Sea World Drive and Sea World Way.

Sorry for the late notice, but we were just informed. Please let us know your feedback if you do make it!

Join
$lave World Demonstration- Let's create more AWARENESS
Tomorrow at 11:00am
Sea World, San Diego (CA) in San Diego, California.


I will be at Pat Nay's memorial! I wish I could be in two places at once!


$lave World Demonstration- Let's create more AWARENESS
Tomorrow at 11:00am
Sea World, San Diego (CA) in San Diego, California
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
#blackfish is going to crush it for the Oscar.


BTW... if you are at all interested I'm putting together a trip to go visit the Orcas in the San Juan Islands in May or early June. One day chartered on a large zodiac and the next day sea kayaking.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
^^^^^

Don't harass the sea life!!!!!!!!!!!! #menace
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:27pm PT

^^^

Good point!!!...

If you really want to do what's GUD for the whales...

why not leave them ALONE all together???...





locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:30pm PT

THREAD DRIFT:

I always thought this song was about Whales...

...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
Baaahahaha Yah,, nature boyeee was just a while back panhandling for funds to go swim wiff da fisheys --"to increase awareness" ROFLAMO. In other words a TYPICAL eco cause rrrrrright.....

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
Canned tuna never has been the same since they made it




"Dolphin Free"
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 10, 2014 - 04:02pm PT
How to study ocean animals without capturing them.
http://www.ted.com/talks/edith_widder_how_we_found_the_giant_squid.html

One might argue that holding animals captive for extended periods (like their entire lifetimes) was necessary in the past to learn about them.
No longer.
Let them be free.

A lot of what we now know about sea mammals has been learned at the Marine Mammal Center, and other like organizations.
They capture sick and injured animals, nurse them back to health and when possible release them. Meantime they do excellent new research.
Their scientific papers published since 1979:
http://www.marinemammalcenter.org/science/publications/#.UtBeBHlZuuY

I highly recommend visitors to San Francisco go over to their facility at the beach a mile N of the Golden Gate bridge. It's nearly always open for visitors.
http://www.marinemammalcenter.org/visiting-us/#.UtBfr3lZuuY
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
his name is #blackfish
he's a captive slave
Credit: nature
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
Great links High Traverse!
Nature I want to go see them!

In the Dallas news today


Protesters rallied today near Southwest Airlines’ headquarters in Dallas, seeking an end to the carrier’s partnership with SeaWorld because of the marine-park giant’s treatment of orca whales and other sea mammals.

Southwest confirmed that animal activists dropped off a Change.org petition signed by more than 27,000 people at its main gate at its Dallas Love Field headquarters. Starting around 11 a.m., the activists also rallied at the corner of West Mockingbird Lane and Cedar Springs Road. The rally is supposed to last until 1 p.m.

“Southwest needs to understand that they are promoting animal cruelty seen in Blackfish if they continue to partner with SeaWorld as they have done for the last 25 years,” activist Robin Merritt says in her petition to Southwest CEO Gary Kelly on Change.org. “They do promotional deals, send out joint-press releases patting each other on the back, and are working hand in hand to profit from the misery of animals exploited for SeaWorld.”


Credit: karen roseme

Tell Southwest to stop promoting SeaWorld

http://www.change.org/petitions/southwest-airlines-stop-promoting-seaworld-animal-cruelty
http://www.change.org/petitions/southwest-airlines-stop-supporting-cruelty-at-seaworld

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2014 - 07:12pm PT
karen, minus airfair it's going to be about $375 for three nights accommodations, transportation, zodiac charter, kayak tour. Email me if you really want to go. End of May or Early June.


I think Southwest is going to have a tough time breaking that corporate agreement. That's why they won't end the relationship soon. Once the contract is up I'll bet they don't renew.

Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Jan 10, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
^^^^

If you fly SouthWest to your sea animal love-fest you might as well put a shotgun right in Shamoo's blow-hole.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
Frontier Air. Cuz they got wild animals on the tails of their planes.


And it's "Shamu"
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Jan 10, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
why would the cow of the sea not be "moo"?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 10, 2014 - 08:33pm PT
I always thought the Manatee was the Cow of the Sea....

Credit: nature
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
Reminds me of selfish cows from France Moi Moi Moi speaking of Manatees and Belugas,

SeaWorld is currently waging a battle to bring wild caught beluga whales into the US from Russia even though the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) denied the permit due to concerns of the animals' welfare. More than a dozen belugas have already prematurely died in SeaWorld's 'care' but they still want to capture more wild animals. The shameful list of SeaWorld's unethical treatment of animals can go on and on.

Let's stop these f*#kers!


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
Fortunately, scientists are beginning to concentrate more on learning how the cetaceans use their massive brains, and less on coming up with ways to dismiss and diminish the evidence that we share this planet with other intelligent beings!!!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 11, 2014 - 12:57pm PT

"If you fly SouthWest to your sea animal love-fest you might as well put a shotgun right in Shamoo's blow-hole."...




I can't wait to move back out there...

LOL!!!...




EDITED:

This area has wayyyy too many FRU FRU's for my taste...

It's the FRU FRU climbing community extraordinaire!!!...


"Three more pieces of carrot cake for table six please!!!"...



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:06pm PT



Fru Fru's aside...

I DO in FACT wish that ALL Whales and Dolphins in those ridiculous SHOWS would come to a halt...

As far as studying the animals in captivity for scientific purposes I remain in the middle...

I see both sides on that one...



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
Karen,

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to consider unintended consequences.

To a degree, it is like the single issue group supporting mountain lions. They got a law passed that made it illegal to hunt, or really even manage the lions. What's happened? They are wiping out the bighorn sheep, because now their population is not controlled.

My point is that there are a lot of moving parts in an ecosystem.

While I am not a fan of such parks, I would advocate that they have had a large effect on the public recognition of these animals, which were (particularly the whales) on the way to being eradicated. To a large degree, because people have actually seen these animals, they have developed a constituency: you.

I would be very concerned that once they are out of sight, they will be forgotten, and the whalers/fishermen will go at it again, and no one other than you will care.

I would also be careful about the logic that because SOME parks have poor systems of care, ALL should be abolished. Somewhat like saying because SOME schools are lousy, ALL schools should be closed.

How about we make the conditions more reasonable for care at all locations? I don't mean punitive measures disguised as reform, but really designed to shut them down through subterfuge.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 11, 2014 - 05:25pm PT


"How about we make the conditions more reasonable for care at all locations?"...


I remember well the caged animals in zoos and the upgrades at some, to much more natural appearing habitat...

IMO that can only be viewed as IMPROVEMENT...

For me, would be the same for the Whales/Dolphins should something similar occur...

Improvement...



Let's HOPE that in the very least, something along those lines goes down...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
Sorry Ken M and Locker, I can't agree with you.
I think Sea World could provide an educational, entertaining experience without making wild animals do tricks for food.

They have the ability to pull the heart strings of children and adults everywhere without keeping these wild animals, who were meant to swim 100 miles per day in fishbowls.

They could build an IMAX movie theater and show incredible movies of whales and dolphins.
How about a ride that simulates being a whale or dolphin and swimming around other whales and dolphins.

These guys have 2.7 billion dollars a year to work with they need a NEW business model.
My Idea...

Credit: karen roseme
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 12, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
Karen Roseme-

I understand you have an agenda, just one question.

If the populations are robust and secure, why ban fishing or captive situations?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
Q, we have a surplus of humans, 7 billion.
How would you feel about keeping some of the poor ones in cages and let the fight to the death for the entertainment of rich people?

Populations of some whales are somewhere between 20,000 to 80,000 world wide. Maybe there are a million dolphins worldwide.

Does that sound like a lot to you?

What if there were only 1 million humans left?

Whales and dolphins are probably at least as smart as we are. They live without harming the earth unlike us.




TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
How would you feel about keeping some of the poor ones in cages and let the fight to the death for the entertainment of rich people?

you mean like this guy?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
I'm waiting for someone to bitch-slap that angry midget and while they're at it , polish the dolphin bitch...
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:37pm PT

"Sorry Ken M and Locker, I can't agree with you."...



So it's either FREE WILLY or "FUK YOU WILLY!!!" ???...


What if they don't free them???...

Fuk ANY improvements???...



EDITED:

"Let's HOPE that in the very least, something along those lines goes down......



Don't get how you could disagree with the above statement...

"In the very least"...



Meaning if nothing else, at least make it better for them...



You DISAGREE with that???...




Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:05am PT
Meaning if nothing else, at least make it better for them...



You DISAGREE with that???...

Locker,

You have to understand that for zealots, that is EXACTLY the position. For them, having the worst conditions possible so as to produce the maximum amount of rage is the best possible outcome. Ironically, they are willing to sacrifice those animals for their agenda.

Can't say if that is true for Karen.

As an example of this logic, there is a proposal out there that would cut the rate of abortion in the poor by 80%...it would not force anyone to do anything, would not cost anything....and the anti-choice side is OPPOSED, because they prefer to have the maximum "carnage" possible, to gin up the rage of the base.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:16am PT


Karen???...

Would love to hear more from you on this...

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
And, like clockwork, Ron is here to defend big business and give the unsupportable opinion.

I think Sea World could provide an educational, entertaining experience without making wild animals do tricks for food.

Like the San Diego Safari Park? Animals in HUGE enclosures that people enter in a truck? I like that model, never liked seeing animals in cages. Depressed me.

FYI, on a scale of 1-10 this to me is like a 4. With Syria, climate change, nuclear arsenals in the hands of our biggest threats... yeah I can't get too riled up about this. Like the GMO people, it's a weird one to obsess over. I find it a bit arbritrary which animals are "cute" and which ones we eat. Pigs are smart as F*#K but we can't ride 'em, so food.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:04pm PT


"You have to understand that for zealots, that is EXACTLY the position. For them, having the worst conditions possible so as to produce the maximum amount of rage is the best possible outcome. Ironically, they are willing to sacrifice those animals for their agenda."...



^^^


Karen???...


???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 13, 2014 - 09:02am PT
And, like clockwork, Ron is here to defend big business and give the unsupportable opinion.









^^^^^^^^ GeeeDavis,, I already have a hemorrhoid, and its prolly older than you..


Soooo TELL ME where i defend "big business" here..
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
Soooo TELL ME where i defend "big business" here..







How much knowledge has been gained by captive programs on the various species? Knowledge that would not be known if all were left in the wild? And what is the percentage of captive vs wild Orcas or dolphins?

To UNDERSTAND a species, it must be studied at close quarters. So indeed all those attributes mentioned here have been discovered through the very programs you now want stopped. Cant have it both ways..

It is to the little boys and girls, that MAY become so enthralled by them a new Oceanographer may be born. A new Veterinarian may be born. Thats who Sea world and such places are really for.

Killer whales- found in every ocean around the globe. The APEX predator of the ocean with no known natural enemy. In short THEY ARE DOING FINE and dandy. Try worrying about real problems instead.
(This is misinformation)

They are the most widley distributed alpha predator of them all. And if Sea world wants a few - BFD...As also stated by the OP upthread, no one should even have a dog unless they can be with it 24/7..Really?





I get it - hippie conservationalists are often annoying bastards. However defending Sea Worlds actions saying that you can't have one without the other is lazy thinking and erroneous. A friend of mine works as a researcher for primate social behavior, how many little kids get to see the apes jump through hoops and throw poo poo at each other?

Orcas are data deficient, meaning multiple species may exist (Like Tigers) that we are inadvertently creating endangered.

I don't have a dog in this race, I'm not pushing any agenda. As I said, radical conservationalists are often unrealistic and heavily annoying (here's looking at you GMO crowd) yet that doesn't mean their message gets passed over. Sea World and other organizations that improperly treat their captive animals need to raise their standards, and more importantly operate with more transparency. You can't claim to be a habitat rehabilitation site and recieve tax dollars for your work while also operating as a for-profit industry worth billions. Just like your doctor can't be compensated for prescribing you medication, a for-profit 'conservation' business shouldn't be accepting government money while lining their pockets and hiring untrained staff for dangerous, unscientific jobs.

It is my belief that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, that it is possible to have ethical practices involved with not only studying these animals but educating youth. Most of my favorite animals that I've come to grow fond of I've not seen in captivity but out in the wild, where you walk in their environment and understand their world. Mountain Lions, bobcats, golden eagles... I don't need to see them jump through a hoop to appreciate them. I think that goes across the board.

I don't mean any disrespect, Ron, and I appreciate your comments. Sorry if I sounded crass but that's often how I inadvertantly come across :P lol.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:15pm PT

May be the best line on this thread...


"A friend of mine works as a researcher for primate social behavior, how many little kids get to see the apes jump through hoops and throw poo poo at each other?"...


LOL!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
I only spoke to the scientific research, and the kids getting to see something that they may otherwise never see, and that there are INDEED killer whales in every ocean there is round the globe.

I never addressed the business end of sea world, but did illumiate some GOOD that a lot of species receive from said studies.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
"A friend of mine works as a researcher for primate social behavior, how many little kids get to see the apes jump through hoops and throw poo poo at each other?"...

We get to see it every day on supertopo
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:21pm PT

"and the kids getting to see something that they may otherwise never see, and that there are INDEED killer whales in every ocean there is round the globe."...


Kids are learning about Space too...

But we don't have to destroy "the stars" for it to happen...



Bit of a pun...







skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
Maybe something like this would be good for education purposes.



Video brought to you by lion whisperer kevin richardson

edit; It worked

And my point is that it wold be better to see all these animals in the natural environment.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
Well,, certainly everyone can afford a trip to africa rrright? You had better be thanking the stars there are captive programs HERE in the USA - because without them there wouldnt be several species of african antelopes any more. But there are and in their native lands again all thanks to USA ranchers in Texas and captive programs.


and we all know what happens to those wild animal whisperers. They eventually become a snack. Treadwell sausage company and all..
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
Can't take everyone to Africa anyway. But videos can transport people to far away places they would never get to.

Yup, life expectancy for that guy....I don't know. But he is learning things about those animals that I would never be able to. And then he tells us... He is free soloing in his own way. Personally I admire that, but would never do something like he is doing.

Getting off track though. The same thing could be done, IS DONE, for whales and dolphins and far less hazardous. Not quite as made for TV, but very cool none the less. Scammon's Lagoon.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:47pm PT


Capturing to help bring back a dying breed is a bit different than capturing to entertain a bunch of cotton candy eating, easily entertained, blimps...

At least in my opinion it is...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Locker,, you know those people you stick up for on health care-- the poor??

Its the ONLY opportunity many will ever have of being exposed to wildlife. And if in doing so they get an interest in that as a life direction, its a win win,,no?


I was at a very young age exposed to elephants- the ones John Asquaga used to have -- Bertha and Tina. My sister worked for Asquaga and was a fav employee, so i got the perks of giving bertha and tina baths in the back lot of the NUgget where the pens used to be. They were pampered during their off time like few people ive ever known. Perhaps that helped me in my career paths and being involved in wildlife causes..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:05pm PT


Yes I know those people Ron...

and believe it or not I feel that their health is way more important than their being entertained with WILD ANIMALS acting like CLOWNS...


;-)



EDITED:


PS...

If someone is DEAD, they ain't gonna be watchin no fukin WHALE show...

LOL!!!...



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:07pm PT
ok so its good for them to have health care,, but not to go get a chance to see something they thought they never would? Sea world hosts countless kids groups every year. Many of those inner city kids. Thats who Sea world is for.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:09pm PT


It's not a perfect world...

But getting healthcare is a GREAT contribution!!!...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:10pm PT

Kids live in Manhattan having never seen a COW and seem to do OK in life...

Those kids will live Ron...

But MAYBE not without HEALTH INSURANCE!!!...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
I can tell you what is truly in play here, is a curve in life that most go through, even hunters, and im old enough to have seen this to be fact.


As a youth everything is amazing and you want all you can get- be it seaworld trips, zoos or what ever. As one ages an matures, and as your exposed to more tragedy , and become more aware of plights round the world be they human or fauna, you begin to "soften" for a lack of a better word.
You think on things differently and then act accordingly. I dont hunt near as much as i once did- and i find the same enjoyment shooting a couple of ducks as i USED to feel shooting a limit. This is the effects of time..

So its no wonder we have these "causes" guided by pure emotion. But its also by people who were once young,, and enjoyed the heck out of such things.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:14pm PT


Maybe it's just time to quit torturing the things...

Having them jump through hoops isn't about science...

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
I understand about kids seeing things and learning. I took my first deer years ago with a Model 1894 Winchester 30-30 as a teen. I got chickens years ago just to show my kids where the eggs and meat come from. But, when Killer whales start killing off their trainers, don't you think they are giving us some kind of message? Not on purpose but just coincidentally?

edit: Maybe it is on purpose. I sure as H#ll don't know.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
Training WILD life is serious biddness. Trainers from whales to bears to cats have been killed. that IS the difference between domestics and wild creatures. A friends akida/wolf mix was fine UNTIL he wasnt.

Treadwell was all groovy till the bears decided to take advantage of the snack that hung around them. Where is THEIR compassion? The bears have very little compassion especially when it comes to consumables.

Orcas get pizzed, or perhaps its play to them when they grab a trainer and drown them. Only the orcas know for sure, and they dont speak our language.
But if that ever does happen, it will be through scientific study eh?
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
Ron, with all due respect, you're trying to compare apples with jellyfish.

Bears don't need compassion. Bears live in the wilderness and fight the elements, and the marauding of an insatiable mankind, for daily survival.

Compassion wouldn't serve a bear. (Although if you knew the truth about Treadwell's frustration with a failed acting career, you might suspect the bears did have compassion for him.)

Humans, on the other hand, seem to thrive where compassion is prevalent. Do you know about the ASPCA?

"On April 10, 1866, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) was founded in New York City by philanthropist and diplomat Henry Bergh, 54.

In 1863, Bergh had been appointed by President Abraham Lincoln to a diplomatic post at the Russian court of Czar Alexander II. It was there that he was horrified to witness work horses beaten by their peasant drivers. En route back to America, a June 1865 visit to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in London awakened his determination to secure a charter not only to incorporate the ASPCA but to exercise the power to arrest and prosecute violators of the law.

Back in New York, Bergh pleaded on behalf of "these mute servants of mankind" at a February 8, 1866, meeting at Clinton Hall. He argued that protecting animals was an issue that crossed party lines and class boundaries. "This is a matter purely of conscience; it has no perplexing side issues," he said. "It is a moral question in all its aspects." The speech prompted a number of dignitaries to sign his "Declaration of the Rights of Animals."

Bergh's impassioned accounts of the horrors inflicted on animals convinced the New York State legislature to pass the charter incorporating the ASPCA on April 10, 1866. Nine days later, the first effective anti-cruelty law in the United States was passed, allowing the ASPCA to investigate complaints of animal cruelty and to make arrests.

Bergh was a hands-on reformer, becoming a familiar sight on the streets and in the courtrooms of New York. He regularly inspected slaughter houses, worked with police to close down dog- and rat-fighting pits and lectured in schools and to adult societies. In 1867, the ASPCA established and operated the nation's first ambulance for horses.

As the pioneer and innovator of the humane movement, the ASPCA quickly became the model for more than 25 other humane organizations in the United States and Canada. And by the time Bergh died in 1888, 37 of the 38 states in the Union had passed anti-cruelty laws.

Bergh’s dramatic street rescues of mistreated horses and livestock served as a model for those trying to protect abused children. After Mary Ellen McCormack, 9, was found tied to a bed and brutally beaten by her foster parents in 1874, activists founded the New York Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. Bergh served as one of the group’s first vice presidents."

Ironic that it took the formation of the ASPCA before we were even willing to save our own children from abuse, huh?

Returning healthy whales and dolphins to the wild is just the next step in our journey as compassionate human beings.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
The ASPCA is certainly an IMPORTANT and beneficial organization.

All for that. But also,, the treatment of whales and dolphins at Sea world isnt exactly like out right torture of animals. Most if not all at sea world were born there from what i understand. Letting them loose in the ocean will be a slow death. We dont kill bunnys anymore to see if the stork is on its way and thats good. But the Marines and Navy use dolphins to help them is rescuing swimmers of finding mines, and that too is good, and the dolphins seem to rather enjoy the job. Rescue whales and dolphins should be treated then released imo.. But captive born are just that. Its like telling the chicken farmer he must turn loose all his chickens to be nice to them.


edit: I turned loose my amazon parrot Max yesterday- stuck her out by the fence. She just sat there, finally waddling back over to the front door yelling,,"hellohwwww"...I opened the door and back in she came.
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:35pm PT
"I turned loose my amazon parrot Max yesterday..."

That got me laughing. Max knows a good thing when she sees it.;-)

I've worked with rehabbing wildlife and I've worked with wild animal trainers since the Valdez oil spill in '89, and am very familiar with all of these arguments.

Very few of SeaWorld's dolphins and whales are captive-born. Either the animals won't breed in captivity, or the newborns die. I'm all for captive breeding programs of endangered species, but I think you know that's not what we're talking about here, right?

It doesn't take a released dolphin long to "remember" how to feed itself. Nor does it take a released whale long to do the same. If they are aided in finding an accepting pod (or even their home pod), then they return to the wild without a problem. There are exceptions, and those need to be treated accordingly.

What the military does with dolphins planting/finding mines is...well...I just love how we start wars and then think it's the duty of all of these "inferior species" to fight for us. And die for us. And all the while we're killing them with purse seine nets and long-line fishing, not to mention slaughtering them by the tens of thousands to use as shark-bait in Peru. Sorry...thread drift.

The point is, Ron, we are abusing them keeping them in captivity the way we do. I've seen it first hand. The zoo system of the USA is undergoing drastic changes to accommodate the physical and psychological needs of the animals; our captive marine mammal system needs to do the same.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
+1 for L
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
Didnt they let an orca go into the wild that promptly died?


So L,, realizing that the details of these captives are learned because they are captive, do you not think some in captivity isnt a good thing at all?

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:55pm PT


"treatment of whales and dolphins at Sea world isnt exactly like out right torture of animals"...

Maybe not...

But ever spent even ONE night in jail???...


Those HUGE things really should be swimming in the ocean where they belong...


Or like Ken has suggested and I certainly SUPPORT...

If nothing else...

make SOME changes in their favor...

Like an OCEAN size swimming pool...(EDITED: and no more HOOPS!!!)











































Oh yeah...

They already have one...

;-)






locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:06pm PT

BREAK:

...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:06pm PT


Carry on...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
I can BARELY hack being stuffed into a small metal tube for 7 hours of flight time. But i did so so that others could live. One suffered, many gained. Thats always the way its been. My sister was one of the very first Hep C cases ever identified and from her they learned a wealth of info. See what im getting at? What percentage are we talking in captive vs free roaming? Very small - fractional im thinkin..

I once rehabilitated a hen mallard "missy" , making her a cast for her broken wing and the whole 9. It worked amazingly and after about 5 months, she was flying again.. She would jump up ,, do about 2 laps round the block and come on back in to her clover, grass and goodies. She was wild, but not.


I do agree that wild animals should be wild. But i also know the full values of captive programs. In the case of these ocean dwellers, im not sold to the cause yet. Seems to me you guys should concentrate on vids like the mass slaughter instead of a few at sea world.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:39pm PT


"But i did so so that others could live"...



and the missing word is...




















































Volunteer...








































Next time you talk to a Whale and ask her/him how he/she is doing...

let me know what is SAID...


;-)

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:41pm PT


"I do agree that wild animals should be wild"...



Good GUD man...

Then STFU!!!...

What the hell???...




LOL!!!...
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:56pm PT
F*#k you Russia:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/two-orcas-captured-by-hunters-for-2014-sochi-winter-olympics/


Empty the tanks.



karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2014 - 10:57pm PT

Death Returns to Taiji: 24 Bottlenose Dolphins Butchered at the Cove
The deaths represent the largest one-day kill since late November, when 54 striped dolphins were slaughtered.


January 10, 2014 By Salvatore Cardoni

Sal holds a Political Science degree from the George Washington University. He's written about all things environment since 2007.
full biofollow me
Another day, another senseless dolphin slaughter in Taiji, Japan.

The waters of the village’s notorious inlet, spotlighted in 2009 by the Oscar-winning documentary The Cove, ran red with blood yesterday as local fishermen killed 24 bottlenose dolphins.

“Many of these dolphins suffered terribly for a great length of time before actually dying,” says Melissa Sehgal, senior leader for Sea Shepherd’s Cove Guardian campaign, from the ground in Taiji. She leads a team of 12 volunteers that monitor the six-month drive hunt, which involves everything from counting the dead to helming cameras that live-stream the killings.

The 24 dolphin deaths represent the largest one-day kill since Nov. 23, 2013, when 54 striped dolphins were slaughtered, she says. A total of 459 dolphins have been killed this season.


Airlines Might Just Hold the Secret to Ending Dolphin Captures at the Cove
Each year beginning Sept. 1 and ending sometime in March, around 30 fishermen from the small town, population 2,000, lure luckless pods of whales and dolphins from the open ocean into a narrow bay bordered by steep, rocky cliffs. There, they separate the younger ones worth selling to aquariums in Japan and around the world.

The rest are impaled with harpoons and butchered. Their toxic, mercury-rich meat is then sent to dining tables across East Asia.

Prior to the release of the film, the town’s fishermen were annually killing around 1,600 dolphins, a fraction of the country’s annual quota of 20,000 dolphins and small whales, such as pilot whales.

But the worldwide media exposure that surged in the wake of the Academy Award and increased pressure from activist organizations such as Sea Shepherd and Cove star Ric O’Barry’s Save Japan Dolphins combined to lower the kill count each subsequent season. During the 2012–2013 season, roughly 900 dolphins were killed.

jail or death?
jail or death?
Credit: karen roseme
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:19pm PT
Who can forget,, "They call him FLIPPER,,, FLIPPER faster than lightning~~~"


eeeheh eeeheh eeeeheH!
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 14, 2014 - 01:34am PT
I prefer large nets to pursue the beasts.

That is how we rounded them up off the La Moskitia coast.
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Jan 14, 2014 - 09:02am PT
"So L,, realizing that the details of these captives are learned because they are captive, do you not think some in captivity isnt a good thing at all?"

Ron, I used to think the public needed to be exposed to live dolphins and whales in order to relate to them, to see how amazing and beautiful they were, to see that they were worth saving even though they were so different from us. In that context, I thought a few live captives were worth the trauma for the good of the whole.

I don't feel that way anymore.

There are so many cruelty-free options for people to experience marine mammals today: fabulous documentaries, whale-watching tours, school programs, live-cams, wild dolphin/whale interaction retreats, etc. There's no longer a reason to incarcerate these ocean-roaming, free-spirited beings, especially for our own perverse entertainment.

I think you'll agree, Ron, that throughout our history, humankind has done reprehensible and horrifying things...and some of it, like the Nazi experiments on captive Jews during the war, has produced valuable medical information.

But once we knew better (or in the case of the Jews, found out about it), we did better. We don't allow such behavior towards humans today, even for the great god "Science". And as we continue to evolve into a conscious, compassionate race, we'll look with horror at what we've done to dolphins, whales, chimps, dogs, cats, and all the other "inferior species" we use without compunction.

So no, I don't believe there's ever a reason to incarcerate healthy marine mammals today. Not for behavioral statistics. Not for entertainment. Besides, captive animals behave quite differently than those in the wild. We're monitoring the behavior of inmates, not dolphins. And as someone up-thread pointed out...the people getting the grant money are really the only winners in that deal.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:34am PT
On a lighter side, I went to sea world long ago and the Orca show was about to begin. the first 10 rows are clearly marked "WET AREA" so we sat in about row 12 or so. Just before it started a bus load of Japanese with really expensive cammeras and video stuff came in and were overjoyed that they could find seats so close to the pool. Well...a couple of minutes into the peformance...good old Shamoo...Came up out of the water and...Did a huge back-flop...Sent a small tidal wave over them, Drenching them completely, I should not have laughed...But I did...Good old Shamoo...Payback? or revenge? or just having a little fun?...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:51am PT


Karen...

why did you not answer my question???...(Dodge ball time???)

Let me ask it again...


Is it "Do or Die" in your opinion, for the Whales and Dolphins???...

Speaking specifically about the ones currently in captivity at the water shows...



If they are not set free, then too fuking bad???...





???...


Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:54am PT
Why don't you climb solely on a hang board from now on, Locker, and answer your own question?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:01am PT

A Cow taught to play "Catch"...

...

Might be time to reconsider that steak you're about to eat...





locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:20am PT



"Have either of you tried the Whale meat???"...



...



















































"It's delicious"...
Credit: locker
...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:52am PT



"Why don't you climb solely on a hang board from now on, Locker, and answer your own question?"...



This is just a WILD guess...

But maybe because I am asking KAREN and would LIKE an answer???...

I don't know...

Wasn't my question EASY enough Jebus???...



You think I should REWORD it???...

LOL!!!...




EDITED:

But I DO think that she HAS read it, and ignoring it makes me think that she really doesn't care anywhere near as much for the creatures as she claims...

Because who the hell WOULDN'T want them to be housed in a BETTER and LARGER environment, if they are to remain in captivity???...(EDITED: which they most likely are... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)...




Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 14, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
Oreo cow! mmmmooooooooooooo.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 14, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
I find it interesting that the Scimitar Horned Oryx, Addax, and Pere David Deer, are extinct in the wild but only found on private reserves.

Glad we caught a few to preserve the species. Maybe we should open the gates and get rid of them?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 14, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Q,, actually some of those species have been replanted in their native lands, thanks to Texas Ranchers. All DONATED too. They were officially classified extinct in their native ranges though.



ANNND due to animal rights activists many of those programs have been HALTED by the feds creating ridiculous fees and policies, so the ranchers could no longer afford to keep those animals - and they were promptly shot.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 14, 2014 - 03:01pm PT
I do find it interesting that Karen decides to try and delegitimize comments from folks who have actually netted dolphins and worked with them.

Versus a conversation on the agenda she has.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 14, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Ron, yup! I hope those programs succeed!

I didn't want to bore the masses with wildlife reintroduction knowledge and the new laws in the USA threatening certain critically endangered species that have little value to a ranch/farm now.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 14, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
I too have noticed that Q.. Its like a de-javu for me.. They pretend those pesky facts dont exist.

We fought toof and nail over the fabeled "spotted owl" bitd and got much the same. Roll forward to now, and it turns out what we were saying was SPOT on.. Pun intended.


And now we have the great sage grouse debacle. A report by harry reid-tard and dean heller contained nothing about feral horse and raven issues regarding the sage grouse. NDOW hasnt modified the hunting season in years.
The birds were always the same by in large. But now,, they are "endangered"..??


I LOVE true animals causes. The above,, not so much...
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 14, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Ron-

I have always wondered why the BLM will not get rid of the feral horses and manage a Bison population in areas they occurred.

They are a native species and if successful a season could be opened, versus the absurd money we spend on feral horse roundups and upkeep because we can't butcher them.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 14, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
My first involvement with feral horses was at the start of the program. At that time we were doing good. But it went to hell rapidly.

The winters of 77/78, i shot hundreds of them at palomino valley. We sent thousands to huge ranches in OK and TX and didnt ask why they wanted every ol boney nag and stud. Didnt care. They are a blight and have been way beyond epidemic for decades.

wild horse annie,, lacey j dalton and a host of other brain dead women took up this cause. Thats the facts. Women have been the driving force of the feral horse issue since the 70s. We have a new org in Reno,, ran by,, yep,, a recent CA transplant woman who "fell in live with the noble wild mustang/stallions " the minute she got here. Doesnt know shyt fer shynola about NV and the problems from those "stallions" ..



edit: there is "stallion" crap up and down my roads here locally.



I predict, that over the sage grouse BS,, one may start finding horse carcasses allll over the hills of NV.
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Jan 14, 2014 - 04:06pm PT
"On a lighter side, I went to sea world long ago and the Orca show was about to begin..."

Frank, I saw the same thing happen in Orlando. But I think it was a busload of Midwesterners.

I laughed too...and felt really horrible about it. ;-)
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2014 - 09:27am PT
I love this L,

"There are so many cruelty-free options for people to experience marine mammals today: fabulous documentaries, whale-watching tours, school programs, live-cams, wild dolphin/whale interaction retreats, etc. There's no longer a reason to incarcerate these ocean-roaming, free-spirited beings, especially for our own perverse entertainment.

I think you'll agree, Ron, that throughout our history, humankind has done reprehensible and horrifying things...and some of it, like the Nazi experiments on captive Jews during the war, has produced valuable medical information.

But once we knew better (or in the case of the Jews, found out about it), we did better. We don't allow such behavior towards humans today, even for the great god "Science". And as we continue to evolve into a conscious, compassionate race, we'll look with horror at what we've done to dolphins, whales, chimps, dogs, cats, and all the other "inferior species" we use without compunction.

So no, I don't believe there's ever a reason to incarcerate healthy marine mammals today. Not for behavioral statistics. Not for entertainment. Besides, captive animals behave quite differently than those in the wild. We're monitoring the behavior of inmates, not dolphins. And as someone up-thread pointed out...the people getting the grant money are really the only winners in that deal."


Locker, I'm sorry for the tardy response.

I am in Todos Santos on a surf trip. We have seen lots of Humpback whales and dolphins. It is so great seeing them in the wild, swimming and jumping.

I don't think if you tripled the size of the pools they are kept prisoners in it would be much better. These animals travel 100 miles per day.

Some people are proposing that the already captive whales and dolphins are moved to the real
ocean with nets keeping them in. The current captives will have a hard time in the wild because they are on tons of antibiotics and have not been in the wild for a long time.
Hopefully they will do okay and can eventually be set free.

TRICKS FOR FOOD IS OVER!!!

Don't worry SeaWorld will do okay once they figure out new ways to make $$$$ without enslaving intelligent beings to a life of servitude.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 15, 2014 - 09:55am PT
I've never been to any of the Seaworld. Ever. And won't ever go there. It's damned distasteful to see animals like that. For family dudes and dudettes, I found that one of THE best family So Cal destinations is the La Brea Tar Pits. Great family times, take your kids there and they learn so much more than the false truth told by Sea World.




Russ said:
"If you fly SouthWest to your sea animal love-fest you might as well put a shotgun right in Shamoo's blow-hole. "

LOL!!!!






Ken M said:
" I think you need to consider unintended consequences. To a degree, it is like the single issue group supporting mountain lions. They got a law passed that made it illegal to hunt, or really even manage the lions. What's happened? They are wiping out the bighorn sheep, because now their population is not controlled. My point is that there are a lot of moving parts in an ecosystem."

Mt Lions true, bullshit on the Seaworld part. It's a business, not an "ecosystem. Don't support them.





L said:
" Ron, we are abusing them keeping them in captivity the way we do. I've seen it first hand."
Right on L, no need to see it firsthand, or even watch a vid, anyone can use their brain and come to this conclusion.

PS, so it's clear that I'm a hypocrite (to some, not to me), I've eaten whale meat. More than once. And would do it again. In some countries it's a by-product and sold dirt cheap. Good stuff. As healthy as it gets. mmmmm, Shamuuuuummmmm
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jan 15, 2014 - 10:09am PT
On the same topic, check out this documentary on the treatment of elephants in zoos and circuses.

http://youtu.be/9GXW4wB2EyE
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Jan 15, 2014 - 10:35am PT
"Some people are proposing that the already captive whales and dolphins are moved to the real ocean with nets keeping them in"

That may work. That's what we did with the sea otters we rescued from the 1989 Exxon-Valdez oil spill, Karen. After we cleaned the godawful oil off of them, we rehabbed them in dry pens, then pools, and finally, once they'd recovered their insulating ability, we put them in the ocean in netted pens in Jackaloff Bay.

They were later transported to areas without oil pollution, and from tagging protocol, we know that many survived.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2014 - 10:50am PT
That is great news L.
I hope it woks for the dolphins and whales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GXW4wB2EyE&feature=youtu.be

An Apology to Elephants

don't know how long this will be up
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 01:40pm PT


Karen...


Cool!!! on the surfing and Whale watching...

Sounds like a blast!!!...






"I don't think if you tripled the size of the pools they are kept prisoners in it would be much better. These animals travel 100 miles per day.

Some people are proposing that the already captive whales and dolphins are moved to the real
ocean with nets keeping them in. The current captives will have a hard time in the wild because they are on tons of antibiotics and have not been in the wild for a long time.
Hopefully they will do okay and can eventually be set free."
...


I agree that ideally being set free would be better...






About this that you posted:


"TRICKS FOR FOOD IS OVER!!!"...



That's it for the Whales and Dolphins jumping through hoops???...

No More???...



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 15, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
APOLOGIES TO:



Ferrets
Frogs
Felines
Parrots
Canarys
Finches
Parakeets
salt water fish
fresh water fish
Gheckos
Chameleons
Lizards
Canines
Koi
and a variety of game birds.

For giving you ALL wonderful homes , being spoiled rotten, and living charmed lives.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 01:55pm PT


Looks to me like their main concern is for the trainers and that they're working on safety precautions, but still hope and plan to play HOOPS with the animals...

I may be GOOGLING the wrong info however...

I haven't a real clue!!!...







"Since the 2010 accident in which trainer Dawn Brancheau drowned, SeaWorld has undertaken additional precautions, including developing new custom safety vests and floor lifts designed to quickly bring whales and trainers to the surface of the pools in the event of an emergency. One such lift is currently under construction at the San Diego park, although not in the main show pool.

SeaWorld spokesman Fred Jacobs points out that park employees “have worked safely with and around killer whales for nearly five decades… Close contact with these animals is critical to providing a safe environment for our zoological staff and appropriate care for SeaWorld animals.”

While park officials have said in the past they eventually would like to see trainers rejoin the orcas in the water during Shamu shows, there are currently no such plans, says Jacob.

“Under the right circumstances that may still happen, but that isn’t something we’re working toward now,” Jacob said."



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 02:02pm PT

"Ferrets
Frogs
Felines
Parrots
Canarys
Finches
Parakeets
salt water fish
fresh water fish
Gheckos
Chameleons
Lizards
Canines
Koi
and a variety of game birds.

For giving you ALL wonderful homes , being spoiled rotten, and living charmed lives."
...


How can you be CERTAIN that they PREFER living with humans???..

Did you ask, and they answered???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 15, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
yyyyep...Did you know that you can tell the mood of a parrot JUST from their eyelid positions?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 02:26pm PT


"yyyyep...Did you know that you can tell the mood of a parrot JUST from their eyelid positions?"...


Do they blink the Morse Code???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 15, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
No, but they DO show emotions. Just like they show with their plumage. Raised is a nice comfortable gesture. Slicked down and tight to the body is alert, or being scared or maybe even angry. That in combo with the eye lids lets one know the exact story. After 18 yrs with my boid thus far, we know each other like the backs of our feets.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 04:20pm PT

Messing with you Ron...

I've had 15 Parrots, a Raven and a Red Tail Hawk...

Also worked on a Parrot Farm for a while during my College years...

I am very well aware of their behaviors...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 15, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
oooiiiyyyyy,,,;^)



ive had:

Parrot
finches
canarys
jay
sparrows
magpie
Golden eagle
mallards
5 kinds of pheasant
3 kinds of quail
chukar
red legged partridge


Most of the pheasant and chukar escaped during a heavy overnight snowfall that collapsed my netting. Started seeing them dead in yards, on roads, etc etc.. The neighborhood cats had a festival. Coyotes were across the street in a field munching those that went for the brush. Most were gone within days. But i did hear there were a couple of chukar on Lone mtn by the cemetery for a year or two. A buddy living near by would hear them clucking. So that release wasnt all that successful..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 15, 2014 - 04:52pm PT

To add...

Forgot that I nursed a Dove back to health and released it...

Also a "Cat Bird" (aka Mocking Bird)...



Birds are cool...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2014 - 10:03am PT
News from NPR today!


"It's time to stop the shows. It's time to stop forcing the animals to perform in basically a circus environment, and they should release the animals that are young enough and healthy enough to be released," Berg says in the movie. "And the animals like Tilikum, who are old and sick and have put in 25 years in the industry, should be released to an open ocean pen."




SeaWorld dismissed Blackfish as "shamefully dishonest, deliberately misleading and scientifically inaccurate" when it was released over the summer. But then the company went silent.

Timothy Coombs, a communications professor at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, says the company seemed to be hoping the controversy would fade.


Read the whole article
http://www.npr.org/2014/01/15/262767226/months-after-blackfish-release-controversy-for-seaworld-grows
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2014 - 10:10am PT
SeaWorld and Southwest have worked together since 1988 in what McInnis told CNBC is a "mutually beneficial partnership" that "is based on travel and bringing families together."

Co-branded programs include vacation packages and several Boeing 737 specialty jets painted with images of marine park animals. Two planes, Shamu Two and Shamu Three (Shamu One has been retired), feature images of Sea World's performing orcas. A huddle of gentoo penguins are painted on the newest themed plane, Penguin One.

Southwest Airlines isn't the only corporate entity being pressured to sever ties with SeaWorld. On Change.org alone, there are more than two dozen "Blackfish"-inspired petitions, including one asking Toys R Us to stop selling a SeaWorld-themed Barbie and another asking Groupon to stop featuring discounted SeaWorld deals.
(Read more: Ruffled feathers over future of the Spruce Goose)
The "Blackfish" documentary by filmmaker Gabriela Cowperthwaite examines the history of killer whales in captivity and, in particular, the story of Tilikum, a captive orca that has been associated with the death of several people, including of a trainer in 2010 at SeaWorld Orlando in Florida. Petitioners have called for the release of Tilikum and changes to the way in which SeaWorld treats animals in its theme parks.

Yay!!!!!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 16, 2014 - 10:53am PT
I'm not sure how it works but I think SeaWorld and and Southwest have a contract that would be difficult to break at the moment. I'll bet when the time is right Southwest will do the right thing and bail on them. SeaWorld is a sinking ship. This won't blow over like they are hoping.

And the best part is they keep doing stupid sh#t (or their supporters doing stupid shit).

Here's a "great" video from a former trainer. The guy is a d#@&%e.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4GRC6L07w

In it he claims 85% of #blackfish is lies. He's then asked to point out some of the lies. He claims there isn't enough time but that he has three pages of notes (look close - he didn't write much). He then gives an example - in the movie one of the trainers talks about the first time she road an Orca. the movie then shows someone riding an Orca that isn't her. he points to this as a lie.

He also claims that that trainers interviewed in the movie probably worked at SeaWorld decades ago. I think it'd be a good idea to do some reasearch before opening his mouth. They all quite within the last 4-8 years.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2014 - 10:06am PT
Sad news about the oscars yesterday, corporate influence?

Oscar Snubs 'Blackfish,' but the Film's Anti-Captivity Message Lives On
Fans and killer whale advocates are dismayed that the documentary about orcas in captivity did not make the final cut of nominees for best feature documentary.



David has been a professional journalist for 25 years. His third book, "Death at Seaworld," was published in 2012.
full biofollow me
Early this morning, actor Chris Hemsworth read out the Oscar nominations in some dimly lit conference hall in Los Angeles. Although Blackfish was featured on the short list of 15 documentaries announced last month, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences ultimately snubbed it. But the film will live on as one of the most powerful and moving documentaries of our time. And it will continue to haunt SeaWorld's dreams.

Fans and orca advocates are expressing shock and dismay that the documentary about killer whales in captivity—and three-time killer Tilikum in particular—did not make the final cut of five nominees for best documentary feature.

Still, director Gabriela Cowperthwaite has given the world an invaluable gift that people will be talking about for years. Watched by more viewers than any other documentary last year and scheduled to air again this month on CNN, Blackfish has turned SeaWorld's world upside down and brought new urgency to the debate over the ethics of keeping large, sentient animals in tiny tanks to do inane tricks for food.



Documentaries are supposed to make us think. The best ones make us change, and that is what Blackfish will continue to do. If awards were based on influence, it would win all of them.

Thanks to the film, an untold number of people will no longer visit SeaWorld or other venues that keep orcas in captivity. The media, once largely indifferent to the issue, except when Tilikum killed Orlando trainer Dawn Brancheau almost four years ago, have woken from their stupor to report on the honest (if heated and often vitriolic) debate that is taking place in the country. The fallout will only increase as every detail of SeaWorld's once-shining reputation is reported on in depth.

It is daunting to recount all of the milestones that Blackfish achieved in 2013

Insightful post rSin, "a window into what allowed human slavery to exist for so long i figure"

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 17, 2014 - 10:34am PT
f*#k the Oscars. It doesn't matter.

this is what matters. This is what is happening right now.

"Four pods are in the cove, including an albino bottlenose dolphin. 100s of the dolphins are going to be slaughtered tomorrow while others get shipped to places like sea world. The killers will earn millions for this capture."


http://livestream.seashepherd.org/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 17, 2014 - 10:50am PT
f*#k!
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1076063
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
If those dolphin taste like seal pup I'm in.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2014 - 10:17am PT
Nature you are right! Some how some way this must be stopped!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2014 - 06:59pm PT
Credit: karen roseme
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
Credit: nature
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 18, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
I thought you said those guys are smart.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 18, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Its snout looks as if it's been running into walls.

Maybe it's highly intelligent, but not very bright. I know people like that.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2014 - 10:32pm PT
Is that the albino dolphin?

More sad news


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/winter-olympics-killer-whales-sochi-3012316
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
Yes, that's the albino they kidnapped yesterday. She is at the Taiji Whale and Dolphin Museum.

f*#king murdering scum....

By the end of the weekend her mother along with another 200 or so dolphins will be slaughtered.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jan 18, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
Not sure if its true, but i wonder if anyone else heard this story that was on Canadian national news during the spring or summer of 1983. I was in Cape Breton, NS CA visiting my folks during that time and this story broke on their national news about how this guys boat sunk off of the eastern seaboard a day or two of the coast (Florida, I think). No life raft. The situation became even more dire when sharks appeared. Evidently dolphins where in the vicinity also. They (not sure how large their pod was nor how many sharks) they kept the sharks at bay and took the guy back to land (hangin on their dorsal fins, i guess). It faded from the news and when I got back to SoCal a few months later I didn't try to investigate. Wouldn't have been so easy, no internet back then. I was somewhat suspect, it just seemed so incredible. But I still wonder about it.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 18, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Nature- why are Dolphins more holy than roaches or ants?

I have always been curious why certain species get folks fired up.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 18, 2014 - 11:47pm PT
Tuna has mothers too. Tuna has feelings and is a smart fish. SAVE THE TUNA----BAN SUSHI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 18, 2014 - 11:57pm PT
So you are the guy/girl that decides what animal to support? Be it an insect or vertebrate?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:23am PT
RSIN- Sorry you are upset.

I have a simple question, why is sustainably harvesting sea mammals bad?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:31am PT
I am sorry you are a racist, or trying to incite that. I wish you the best and hope you get better.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:37am PT
Sorry for trying to discuss issues with you. Maybe you will mature one day.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:41am PT
rSin,

Being a Dick doesn't make you good at swimming while blowing air out of the top of your head.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:48am PT
rSin- I hope you are okay. I am worried about you. Please stay safe and have fun.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 12:53am PT
I love all life but strive to help my fellow man first
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:00am PT
rSin- not sure how to read your question? I wish you the best!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:01am PT
All Holocausts are local, or didn't you notice rSin ?

A girl I loved said she would run into a burning building to save her dog. I asked if she'd do the same for me.

"You have the ability to get your self out, so why should I?"

Love's such a capricious thing and she didn't pass the edit...

http://en.wikipedia.org/Anthropomorphism
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:10am PT
rSin,

I've prayed for the soul of the carrot you ate for dinner. Amen.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:16am PT
Fair enough,

Madonna once stated she would never eat anything that took a sh#t.

Are you conflicted by mushroom manure fertilizing crops ?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:16am PT
I am not against harvesting creatures. shrimp, elk, grouse, crabs, fish, salamanders, snakes all have eyes. and they are yummy!
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:24am PT
rSin- that makes me want to shoot an elk. What does it mean. Obviously I am not intelligent enough to understand it.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:32am PT
Some persons are more equal than others.

Corporations enjoy personhood in the eye of the law but legally fall short of being human. These days it's a technicality...

Animals are sentient beings but legally property. That's the deal until they go on strike.

Serious like cancer Joking aside, the issue, is that in the Western hemisphere we're under the thumb of Christian fundamentalists who believe the world is to be exploited under human domain. Anything else is Pantheism or worship of nature.

Abominable, of course...
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:32am PT
Curious why you are upset? I have never called you a name.
Q-ball
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 01:55am PT
rSin-I only need to quote you. Thanks for the flattering thoughts. Wish you the best!

"of course you think that
your a scum f*#king
ape sh#t
piece of detritus

if theres a piece of you
big enough to bury
after justice is done"

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 19, 2014 - 02:11am PT
I am sorry you are threatened by my thoughts of helping one another. Take care and hope your family is doing great.

I never mentioned god so whats that all about?
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Jan 19, 2014 - 02:56am PT
Be careful how you treat other species....


karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2014 - 09:48am PT
Nature,
This is heartbreaking!
You are right, truly awful.

"Four pods are in the cove, including an albino bottlenose dolphin. 100s of the dolphins are going to be slaughtered tomorrow while others get shipped to places like sea world. The killers will earn millions for this capture."


http://livestream.seashepherd.org/

Sea shepherd is a great organization to give money to.
I give to them monthly. They are out there trying to stop these senseless slaughters.

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2014 - 09:59am PT
Another day, another senseless dolphin slaughter in Taiji, Japan.

The waters of the village’s notorious inlet, spotlighted in 2009 by the Oscar-winning documentary The Cove, ran red with blood yesterday as local fishermen killed 24 bottlenose dolphins.

“Many of these dolphins suffered terribly for a great length of time before actually dying,” says Melissa Sehgal, senior leader for Sea Shepherd’s Cove Guardian campaign, from the ground in Taiji. She leads a team of 12 volunteers that monitor the six-month drive hunt, which involves everything from counting the dead to helming cameras that live-stream the killings.

The 24 dolphin deaths represent the largest one-day kill since Nov. 23, 2013, when 54 striped dolphins were slaughtered, she says. A total of 459 dolphins have been killed this season.


Want to try to do something about this?



Airlines Might Just Hold the Secret to Ending Dolphin Captures at the Cove

If a dolphin were captured by Japanese fishermen and sold at great profit to a faraway amusement park, but no one was willing to fly the animal there, would the fishermen want to capture more dolphins? Probably not.

That thinking has fueled a growing international effort to convince the world’s airlines and airfreight companies not to fly marine mammals captured from the wild to theme parks and aquariums. Citing the severe stress placed on whales and dolphins from hours in the restricted confinement of air transport, many air-cargo carriers are joining a “green list” of airlines vowing not to fly wild-caught cetaceans (unless an animal is being moved for health, safety or conservation reasons).

Many international activists believe that air transportation is the weakest link in a chain that sustains not only the infamous dolphin slaughter in Taiji, Japan, but also the international trafficking of all whales and dolphins for public display and profit. The most recent effort is a petition at Change.org by the anti-captivity group Freedom Blue. It calls on all carriers to, “Make the skies ‘dolphin-safe’—stop the carriage of cetaceans to marine parks.”

http://www.change.org/petitions/hong-kong-airlines-stop-profiting-from-the-misery-of-the-taiji-dolphins
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/operation-blue-skies-make-the-skies-dolphin-safe-stop-the-carriage-of-cetaceans-to-marine-parks
http://www.change.org/petitions/dolphins-don-t-belong-in-traveling-circus
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/10/07/establishing-dolphin-no-fly-zone-would-it-end-captures-cove
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/838/738/517/tell-winter-olympic-city-not-to-display-wild-orcas/?TAP=1007#next_action
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
so true...

Credit: karen roseme
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
This is worth studying


http://whalemuseum.org/collections/meet-the-whales

http://www.orcanetwork.org/sightings/map.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Resident_Killer_Whales
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
Kayakers' encounter with orcas videotaped via drone - Pete Thomas Outdoors
http://www.petethomasoutdoors.com
The use of mountable cameras has, for the past few years, altered the way we look at personal achievements and our surroundings.

very cool!
very cool!
Credit: karen roseme
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 25, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
here's some good news

http://aldf.org/press-room/press-releases/federal-agencys-new-action-may-mean-release-for-orca-at-seaquarium/

and in June when we have the Orca love fest trip we will visit the pen they are hoping to initially return her to on her trip home to the sea
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jan 25, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
never saw a dolphin in the wilds. i've spent a lot of hours over the last half century sitting in the lineup on a hunk of foam and fiberglass waiting for the next set to appear on the horizon. i have watched countless porpoise pods, over the years, making their way down the coast headed for warmer waters i suppose. you can spot them away off bobbing up and down in a steady rhythmic manner, one after the other. it is always a thrill when one occasionally breaks from the pack, beelines it for our 'pod', rides a wave or two, then darts back to his fellow travelers. wild and care free. a very special moment that you'll remember for a lifetime.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Jan 25, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
Going to visit some dolphins my father captured in the late 80's. They are at the Roatan Marine Studies Institute.

I can't wait to see them!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
http://www.change.org/petitions/wometco-enterprises-inc-retire-the-oldest-captive-killer-whale-lolita

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/816/288/119/free-lolita-the-captive-orca-whale/#next_action

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-Lolita-the-Orca/387603607109

I agree Nature, that is good news!
Here are some easy petitions to sign!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2014 - 07:02pm PT
“You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one.”
    John Lennon

Something to remember when you wonder why none of the people you know seem to care about saving whales and wolves, protecting rainforests, or stopping Big Oil from drilling in the Arctic.


http://www.john-lennon-music-lyrics.com For Lyrics.


Ya!
Ya!
Credit: karen roseme
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2014 - 10:12am PT



Kennedy Tweet Sparks Global Outrage Over 'Cove' Slaughter

Last Tuesday, fishermen in Taiji, Japan, killed 40 dolphins and captured 52 for sale to aquariums.



A State Department spokesperson today issued a statement in support of Ambassador Kennedy's tweet. "The U.S. does remain committed to the global moratorium on commercial whaling, and we are concerned with both the sustainability and the humaneness of the Japanese dolphin hunts," said Marie Harf. "We have been very clear that this is our position, and we remain concerned about it. And the ambassador was expressing our view that we’ve made public for a long time."

If dolphins could tweet, many would surely be writing some version of “Thanks @CarolineKennedy for trying to save our lives” over the weekend. On Jan. 17, Kennedy, just two months into her job as the U.S. ambassador to Japan, sent shockwaves around the world by tweeting against the slaughter of dolphins in the cove at Taiji, Japan. “Deeply concerned by inhumaneness of drive hunt dolphin killing,” Kennedy tweeted. “USG (U.S. Government) opposes drive hunt fisheries.”
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jan 28, 2014 - 03:22pm PT
Its Good to have causes for sure. I didn't have too many when I was in my teens. Now in my twenties I have stronger opinions.
I'm sure when I get over the hill old I'll have even stronger opinions( mom says this is around 40 as she laughs)
We could look at the bright side and say at least they didn't kill ALL the dolphins. As far as oil companies drilling I think we could lay part of the blame on car companies for producing vehicles many of which still barely get 20 miles to the gallon. I still have a hard time figuring out why all these people are driving around alone in large SUV type tanks.
The end is near though. I probably won't hit 40 and the dolphins will survive in the radioactive post apocalyptic seas...
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 28, 2014 - 08:03pm PT
On topic???

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Pretty stupid video Moosedrool!
Kind of funny though.
Actually, Great White sharks are in trouble right now and need our help.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ban-the-unprovoked-slaughter-of-endangered-great-white-sharks
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 29, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
SAVE THE MORMON CRICKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 29, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
Sorry, Karen.

I told you, I am a dork.

Have some loughs :)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 29, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
Save the AFRICAN BEEEEEZZZZZ!!!!
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 29, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
There's Mormon cricketts? They must need saving.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 29, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Just the largest bug around- cannibals they are. If youve never experienced mormon cricket invasions your missing out!!


and that whole deal about the seagulls coming to the rescue and eating them is hogwash.. NOTHING eats them, but they eat everything else!
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
Honey Badgers rock!
Truly badass!
Great one moosedrool!
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 29, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
NOTHING eats them, but they eat everything else!

Ron, they are just like us, humans.

:-/
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 29, 2014 - 02:47pm PT
many things eat people every week Moose. In Africa its usually a nile croc or a hippo.. Those who die in the wild are consumed by every scavenger and mustelid near by. Right down to bone marrow ants carry off.

Bears ate the junk right off ol Tim Treadwell and GF.


The donner party had rump roast of Roy, and spare ribs of Sam, and a leg of Larry..



Just like the dinosaur days, even a T rex would fall victim now and then. We are all predators to an extent.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
For those in the San Diego, CA area:

There will be a protest held Sunday February 16, 10 am PST. Please see the attached link for details. I hope that some of you can make it, and please let us know if you do!

https://www.facebook.com/events/562870523790162/?ref_newsfeed_story_type=regular

I'm going!


PROTEST $EA WORLD PRESIDENTS DAY WEEKEND $AN DIEGO!
Sunday, February 16 at 10:00am
Sea World San Diego in San Diego, California
242 people are going


‘Blackfish’ Creators Challenge SeaWorld to Open Debate
Posted on January 27, 2014 by Alisha Mims •
The director of the SeaWorld exposé, documentary film Blackfish, issued a challenge to the multi-billion dollar corporation. Director Gabriela Cowperthwaite asked SeaWorld to engage in a debate over issues addressed in the film after the company released a statement claiming the film is “propaganda” and untrue.

“As we have always maintained, we welcome an open and honest discussion with SeaWorld,” her statement on The Dodo says. “Unfortunately, Sea World’s business model is built on an antiquated form of animal entertainment which is dwindling in popularity and is no longer seen as humane by many people.”

Cowperthwaite also responded to SeaWorld’s assertion that Blackfish is “emotionally manipulative.” “We believe our audience is intelligent and in control of their own emotions,” she said. “We urge them to conduct additional research on topics such as SeaWorld’s separation of mothers and calves, the increased mortality rate of orcas in captivity, the impact of captivity on orca health, and the frequency of killer whales injuring one another and trainers.”
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
Also Ron,
I think they are cute!

Spike
Spike
Credit: karen roseme



“SeaWorld claims it does not capture killer whales in the wild.”

Evidence shows that SeaWorld has other groups capture wild animals for them. Cowperthwaite notes that SeaWorld is currently attempting to import wild-caught beluga whales from Russia. “‘Rescues’ are often veiled attempts to secure wild animals,” she said. “A whale called Morgan, rescued in the Netherlands in 2010, was not released as local law required but was instead transported to a park in Spain. When SeaWorld published documents listing its ‘assets,’ Morgan appeared as part of its ‘collection.’”

“Why SeaWorld stays relatively quiet on wild captures and killings.”

In the midst of the annual culling and slaughter of wild dolphins in Taiji, Japan as well as the capture of orcas and beluga whales in Russia, SeaWorld remains relatively quiet, despite touting claims of its conservation efforts. The company has vast resources and could be a strong voice against the cruel practices of killing and capturing wild cetaceans. SeaWorld obtained a pilot whale in 2010 that was reportedly captured in a drive hunt. Cowperthwaite notes that the company could easily provide evidence of how its beluga whales and other animals are captured, if there is nothing to hide.

“SeaWorld claims it does not separate killer whale mothers and calves.”

Orcas are highly social animals that live in matrilineal family groups and work very closely with their pods for survival. Orcas stay with their family groups for life. Capturing orcas from the wild, particularly separating calves from mothers, as with other cetaceans, is an extremely inhumane and traumatic act. “SeaWorld’s claim that it does not separate them is patently false,” Cowperthwaite says. (See list of mother-calf separations).




Separations are extremely cruel and can lead whales to injure themselves or become severely depressed. “For example, during the course of our investigation we learned the story of a killer whale who became distraught when her daughter Skyla as shipped to another park,” she notes.

Kalina “broke open her face,” suffering lacerations from banging into the gate separating her from her baby, who was only two years of age at the time. At the same moment, Skyla was being harnessed and craned out of the pool. According to our sources, Kalina and other whales can stop eating and “shut down” due to the trauma of these unnatural separations, and may even be put on diazepam (valium) in an attempt to ease the stress.

Even the image that SeaWorld uses to advertise that it keeps mothers and calves together shows a calf that was, in fact, separated from its mother in Texas. The mother, Takara, is kept at SeaWorld San Antonio and the calf, Kohana, was moved to Loro Parque, Spain.



Credit: karen roseme

“SeaWorld maligns individuals who draw less than favorable conclusions about their practices.”

SeaWorld brands scientists, anti-captivity activists, former trainers, and independent researchers, who report on SeaWorld’s practices, as “radical activists.” The documentary Blackfish features interviews with individuals who captured wild orcas for SeaWorld as well as former trainers and scientists who have studied wild orcas for a living. “Maligning them on [the basis that they have independently come to a conclusion that is not favorable to SeaWorld] does not make for responsible criticism,” Cowperthwaite says.

In addition, SeaWorld has created a misleading marketing effort to hide human deaths caused by orcas in captivity. One well-known example is the death of trainer Dawn Brancheau, whom an executive for SeaWorld said should be blamed for her own death. SeaWorld also reported that the cause of Brancheau’s death in 2010 was purely a result of her own “mistake” and that her death was a result of “curiosity” or “play” by the whale Tilikum. However, “The nature of Tilikum’s attack on Dawn Brancheau was prolonged and violent,” says Cowperthwaite.

SeaWorld also refuses to acknowledge that captive orcas die at nearly three times the rate at which they die in the wild, and are often prescribed medication to deal with chronic symptoms brought on as a result of captivity. Captive orcas exhibit physical signs of distress as well as emotional. In captive male orcas, 100 percent exhibit dorsal fin collapse, which is suspected to be caused by whales spending lots of time floating at the surface of their tanks and swimming in circles or in the same direction in small containment pools in which they spend their entire lives.

On Friday, SeaWorld responded to the invitation for debate, rejecting it outright. Fred Jacobs, vice president for corporate communications at SeaWorld called the suggestion to hold a public debate “little more than a publicity stunt.” Jacobs further said that the company has “no interest in helping promote a film this dishonest and manipulative.”

Alisha is a writer and researcher with Ring of Fire. You can follow her on Twitter @childoftheearth.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jan 30, 2014 - 02:24am PT
Let's not save the junk eating bears.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
Credit: karen roseme
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 30, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
^^^^ lol

I'm scared shitless of bears, seriously. I go camping a lot, and I am always scared in my tent. Can't help it. Last time in Yosemite I had a vivid dream that a bear got into my tent and was breathing into my neck. I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep for a long time.

I am not scared of animals in general. I swam with sharks and barracudas many times and was never scared. Maybe it is a phobia?

Andrzej
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
Break Out the Kleenex: World's Loneliest Orca Could Reunite With Her Family

http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/29/break-out-kleenex-lolita-worlds-loneliest-orca-could-reunite-her-family?cmpid=tpdaily-eml-2014-01-30




Unbelievable Video of a Swimmer's Chance Encounter With a Family of Killer Whales



http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/30/watch-swimmer-get-close-and-personal-curious-pod-wild-orcas?cmpid=tpdaily-eml-2014-01-30
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2014 - 09:57am PT
Tragic!

Continuing an exceptionally murderous run, fishermen in Taiji, Japan, slaughtered 65 striped dolphins on Tuesday, reports Sea Shepherd.

“It was nothing short of a horror movie,” read a statement on the group’s Facebook page. By the end of the daylong hunt, the entire pod, “including babies and juveniles, was nothing more than slabs of meat loaded onto skiffs and used as seats for the killers on their way to the butcher house.”

The 65 deaths came on the heels of the town's fishermen killing 40 bottlenose dolphins on Jan. 22 and 24 on Jan. 9. Prior to the Jan. 22 cull, the largest one-day kill in the 2013–2014 hunting season had occurred on Nov. 23, 2013, when 54 striped dolphins met their demise.


Kennedy Tweet Sparks Global Outrage Over 'Cove' Slaughter
According to Ceta-base, 1,270 dolphins from six species have been driven into the notorious killing cove this season; of those, 694 were killed, 422 were released, and 153 were captured live.

Every year beginning Sept. 1 and ending the following April, approximately 25 fishermen from the village, population 2,000, drive pods of dolphins and smaller whales from Japan’s Kuman-nada Sea into a shallow inlet. The younger ones are separated from their pod mates and sold for upwards of $125,000 each to aquariums in Japan and around the world. The others are impaled with harpoons and butchered—their mercury-rich meat destined for dining tables across parts of Asia.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
Check out Kid Creaton!

After blackfish inspires almost all bands to cancel their performances at SeaWorld, we wondered who would ignore the cries of cruelty and give SeaWorld a performance they now desperately needed. So it is no surprise that Kid Rock has now agreed to play at the upcoming concert, he is already a public supporter of animal cruelty, "My biggest extravagance is fur coats - I've got every kind of animal in my wardrobe." Despite all our efforts, there will always be those who simply do not care about the treatment of animals, no matter how cruel, senseless, and heartbreaking it may be. But it is still important for us to continue to fight and give animals a voice to be heard, SeaWorld and their shrinking number of supporters will not deter us!

asswipe
asswipe
Credit: karen roseme
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
The dolphin hunts in Taiji are driven by the captive dolphin entertainment industry. Don't buy a ticket! Take a stand!

Credit: karen roseme
JMC

climber
the land of milk and honey
Feb 2, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
Sitting around the lunch table one day, it was the usual multinational mix - Indian, American, Norwegian, Japanese. The topic of whales came up, and both the Norwegian and Japanese scowled in irritation at the modern state of legal affairs presiding over whale meat.
I've eaten canned whale meat, tasted like dog food (which I have also eaten). My sister has had the fresh stuff up in northern Japan, wasn't to her palate. I'll still seek it out the next time I'm there.

There's a distinct difference between fishing for and eating these mammals and having them do tricks in a small pond. Dogs, horses, rats, monkeys - all are foodstuffs for one culture or another. Remember too, the pig is a pretty smart animal.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2014 - 10:48am PT
It's all about the money!

Protest Seaworld - the San Diego Community Page.


http://grist.org/list/seaworld-only-spends-0-0006-percent-of-revenue-on-animal-rescue-and-rehabilitation/

SeaWorld only spends 0.0006 percent of revenue on animal rescue and rehabilitation
grist.org


Once you figure out SeaWorld's priorities, "that’s when you start to get segregated and they try to get rid of you," a former SeaWorld trainer says.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2014 - 11:40am PT
How the rich get richer!

SeaWorld won't pay income taxes for years!


"We won't be a taxpayer for several years to come," SeaWorld President and Chief Executive OfficerJim Atchison told prospective investors shortly before the company went public. "That's a great advantage for us."

SeaWorld is avoiding income taxes even as business is booming. The company's pre-tax profits more than tripled in 2012 to $117 million. Total sales across its 11 parks climbed 7 percent to more than $1.4 billion.

Tax-reform advocates say SeaWorld symbolizes a broken U.S. tax system. The federal government gave away as much money in corporate tax breaks in 2011 — $181 billion — as it raised in corporate-tax revenue, according to a new report by the Government Accountability Office in Washington.

The losses drain state treasuries, too. Florida and other states lean heavily on the federal tax code when calculating their own corporate-income taxes.

SeaWorld says it is acting within "both the letter and spirit" of all tax laws.

"SeaWorld has an obligation to act in the best interests of its shareholders," the company said in a written statement. "In claiming deductions specifically added to the tax code by our elected representatives for the purpose of encouraging investment, SeaWorld is doing nothing more than what other businesses and individual taxpayers do in filing their returns each year."

In an interview, Atchison defended the company's practices. "I think it's fair that we, as an organization, follow the U.S. tax laws," he said.

Beyond that, "I think judgments about fair or unfair are best" left to members of Congress and other policymakers, Atchison added.

Senior lawmakers in both political parties have begun discussing a broad corporate-tax overhaul, fueled in part by reports of minimal tax payments by major American businesses, from SeaWorld to General Electric Co. to Apple Inc. But agreeing on changes will be difficult, as individual companies and industries lobby to preserve preferential treatment.

While refraining from discussing SeaWorld directly, some members of Florida's congressional delegation say reforms are necessary.

A spokeswoman for Rep. Alan Grayson said in an emailed statement that the Orlando Democrat thinks that "all profitable U.S. companies should pay U.S. income taxes."

"They should not have two separate set of books (one for shareholders and a different one for the IRS)," spokeswoman Lauren Doney added.



The single biggest driver of SeaWorld's tax savings is a break known as "accelerated depreciation."

When companies invest in things like equipment and machinery, the value of those assets declines over time as they age. Accelerated depreciation allows companies to write off the value of those investments faster for tax purposes than the value actually declines.

For example, SeaWorld and other theme-park owners are allowed to deduct the value of rides in as few as seven years, even though those attractions typically remain in service for far longer. SeaWorld Orlando's "Journey to Atlantis" opened 15 years ago, yet it remains one of the marine park's marquee rides.

The result is that companies get to take bigger tax deductions — and therefore pay fewer taxes — in the earlier years of their investments.

In theory, companies that use accelerated depreciation will have to pay higher taxes later, once they have completely written off the asset. But tax experts say companies often indefinitely defer those tax payments because they continually buy and build new assets that can be written off.

That is easier to do for businesses in capital-intensive industries — such as theme parks, which must constantly build and renovate attractions to continue drawing visitors.

SeaWorld has accumulated an extraordinary amount of depreciation, thanks to its 2009 sale to the private-equity firm Blackstone Group. Analysts say that deal was structured in such a way that much of the $2.3 billion purchase price was allocated to tax-depreciable assets.

Altogether, SeaWorld has amassed $556 million worth of tax credits based on losses it has reported — for tax purposes — since the sale to Blackstone, which remains SeaWorld's majority shareholder. The cushion should ensure that SeaWorld will not have to pay any significant amount in cash for income taxes over the next few years, though Atchison would not say how long he expected those credits to last.

The credits will not begin expiring until 2029, according to SeaWorld's regulatory filings.





moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:45am PT
Seriously fuked up.

Shareholders are running and ruining this cuntry.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 4, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
Good for Sea World!

It's your patriotic duty as an American to pay as little tax as legally possible.

You should see some of my deductions.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2014 - 03:23pm PT

Credit: karen roseme




Sunday, February 16, 2014
10:00am until 1:00pm

This is President’s Day Weekend more people visit $ea World. It is a three day weekend and this day is known to be very busy. We are here to tell you it is time to EMPTY THE TANKS!

Really $ea World saying the movie BLACKFISH wasn't accurate. How dare you!

We must let $ea World know that we will not stop being a voice for these precious creatures who have lost their right to freedom, their right to live a natural life and are now imprisoned, artificially inseminated and forced to perform 'tricks' for food

Sea World San Diego
500 Sea World Dr, San Diego, California 92101
View Map · Get Directions

I'm going!





https://www.facebook.com/events/562870523790162/permalink/585627074847840/


Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Feb 4, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
Yesterday from Departure Bay on Vancouver Island:

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
Karen Roseme,

Simple question. How many acres and animals have hunters protected?

-Q-ball
bigbird

climber
WA
Feb 4, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
How many acres and animals have hunters protected?

Technically anyone hunting invasive species like Nutrias or fishing Asian Carp in the south is in fact protecting native wildlife and plants...
kind of the exception and not the rule in the wider scheme of things
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
Bigbird-

I am talking native species. Still a simple question (acres and animals) protected by hunters?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 10:56pm PT
rSin- yes protected.

Why are you so sour?

We have put over 300,000 acres in TN, in conservation easements in the last decade. Sorry that upsets you.

Q-ball
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
rSin-

Sorry but lyme disease is a tick deal. So should we get rid of all wildlife to prevent transmissions?

As long as we have critters we will have lyme disease.

-Q-ball
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
Simple question. How many acres and animals have hunters protected?

-Q-ball

You can stuff that tired argument straight up your a*#. Seriously, pal, that kinda disingenuous bullshit (off topic to what is being discussed) makes me sick. Go peddle your "hunters save animals and the environment" crap somewhere else.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:12pm PT
ncrockclimber-

Funny you decide to get mad at a simple question. Not sure why it upsets you.

I can only deduce that you are unaware of current wildlife and fisheries situations?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
crockclimber must be a vegan.. BUUUWAAAAAHAHahahahahahaaaaaa!

Not even worth your time Q Ball..;-)

We KNOW who supports ALL wildlife more than any other group.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
Thanks Ron, I get confused with this hatred sometimes

-Q-ball
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:22pm PT
Theres a few that come on here to do nothing but troll and insult.. They are in every forum on the net. Cyber balls and all...;-)
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:30pm PT

The dolphins don't fit (my fridge) so I am improvising.

If you leave them in the sun for a day they are much easier to skin.

Just a fact.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
Snicker,,^^^^,, and it looks like from the Vid JimB posted,, Ol Karen should be protesting ORCAS killing dolphins.. Wheres the love??
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
I learned how to skin a dolphin from my father. It is a dying art.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
LOL. Ron, you are an idiot. It is that simple, and all that needs to be said to end a conversation with you.

Q-ball, you are truly an as#@&%e. Carry on.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
ncrockclimber- I will carry on. Simplest question I can ask, why not? I would love an intelligent response.

-Q-ball
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
reviewing your posts crockacrap climber, just in the first page of them you insult no less than about 10 other users here. That is JUST ABOUT ALL YOU DO HERE. Time for you to go buhbye. Your a foul mouthed punk and not a thing more.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 5, 2014 - 12:11am PT
ron, you have 26896 post as of now. what percentage of them are climbing related? less than 1%. A lot less. Now, tell me again who needs to go.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 5, 2014 - 12:37am PT
Hey,, cool your not just a butt wipe but a LIAR too.

Less than 1% of my posts climbing related? BULLSHYT. YOU didnt review all my posts so dont try to convince me other wise. And IF YOU DID, then you ARE LAME as lame can be along with being a butt wipe and liar. Now you got anything else "smart " to say? NO i didnt think so..
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Feb 5, 2014 - 12:44am PT
Karen, and many others worldwide, obviously feel passionately about this issue.
Whether you do or don't, it's a total dick move snickering and joking about killing these magnificent creatures.
Sorry dudes, but totally lame.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2014 - 10:42am PT
Jim,

That is an amazing video! Orcas doing what they do in the wild.

The killer whale diet consists of fish, squid, seals, sea lions, penguins, dolphins, porpoises and large whales like the blue whale. Some killer whales have been known to slide on to beaches in order to capture a good meal. Resident pods (pods that primarily reside in one area) prefer fish whereas transient pods (pods that travel over a relatively wide area) appear to target other marine mammals as prey.

Killer whales are very successful hunters due to their cooperative hunting, where all animals within the pod participate. This coordination is apparently developed and learned within pods.

drljefe,
I couldn't agree more " it's a total dick move snickering and joking about killing these magnificent creatures."

Q ball,
I think you should start your own lame thread.

Killing is fun!
Killing is fun!
Credit: karen roseme

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 5, 2014 - 10:56am PT
Ahh so NOW its about Giraffes too.. You dont get to post that without rebuttal Karen.. Do you know what that pic means? Ir are you just hyperbole about ANY animals being killed?
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 5, 2014 - 11:01am PT
Never wrestle with a pig (Ron).

All you'll get is covered in sh#t, and the pig (Ron) likes it.

Seriously, I have started a thread for you two to stroke (each other) off about killing animals.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2014 - 09:05am PT
ncrock you rock!

karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
In the news today


How Blackfish Director Gabriela Cowperthwaite Became Sea World's Worst Nightmare

http://www.laweekly.com/publicspectacle/2014/02/06/how-blackfish-director-gabriela-cowperthwaite-became-sea-worlds-worst-nightmare



"This film couldn't have worked if I had to be careful about who I was pissing off. I think for documentary work you need to be untethered to the powers that be. You might be exposing them - who knows?"
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2014 - 10:02am PT
http://takeaction.takepart.com/actions/save-whales-stop-illegal-whaling-iceland?cmpid=action-share

http://takeaction.takepart.com/actions/save-one-of-the-most-endangered-whales-from-human-exploitation


the 1750s, the North Atlantic right whale was hunted to the point of near extinction. As a result of violent vessel strikes, fishing gear entanglements, and toxic pollution, fewer than 500 remain. New regulations are needed to reduce the threat of fishing entanglements.

Stand with organizations such as the Whale and Dolphin Conservation, and urge NOAA Fisheries to ensure the 300–500 last remaining North Atlantic right whales have a safe area to live.


To: NOAA Fisheries

We, the undersigned, are concerned about the survival of the North Atlantic right whale. They’re threatened by ship strikes, fishing line entanglements, and water pollution. Even though NOAA recently extended the ship strike rule, the fight is not over. These whales will not recover unless the U.S. government continues taking action to ensure their protection from human exploitation.

I stand with organizations such as the Whale and Dolphin Conservation in urging NOAA Fisheries to ensure the 300–500 last remaining North Atlantic right whales have a safe area to live.




apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 7, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Check this out:

Man helps stuck dolphin back into water
A man who spotted a dolphin stranded on the shore in Oxnard helped it get back into the water.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9416285

I used to work with this guy years ago...a good guy, in the right place at the right time...
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
apogee That is a great link.
My kind of hero for sure!


Hold BP Accountable for Dolphin Deaths - The Petition Site
WWW.THEPETITIONSITE.COM
BP still hasn't properly cleaned up its spill in the Gulf, and dolphins continue to suffer from the pollution. (66016 signatures on petition)

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/697/956/400/?z00m=20725354
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
rSin
That put a big smile on my face!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 7, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
here ya go Karen ENJOY!


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:01pm PT
They all seem happy....Bar-b-q- is coming up!
They all seem happy....Bar-b-q- is coming up!
Credit: Ron Anderson

These guys were all THRILLED to see this marauder croc out of their local drinking ponds!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:11pm PT
You really are a jackass jerk, Rong.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
KAREN started this,, she decided to "play the game" and be a big girl.. A big stupid one..Dont like it apooogeee,, GOOD!

Ill count that as a twofer...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
I bet she hasn't reported anyone to the mods, though.

Jack-off.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
Go hug a yellowleg frog assp00geee..YOU ACT just like KAREN.. Your inner woman is showing !
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
duhhiibbbidu ibbbiduhhh what rsin?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 7, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
What cha drinkin tonight, Rong?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
This Is a First: Japanese Newspaper Op-Ed Condemns Taiji Dolphin Hunt

Credit: karen roseme


For the first time, a Japanese newspaper has denounced the slaughter of dolphins in the cove at Taiji, a move that has heartened activists and put the Japanese government on notice that the tides may be changing within the country.

On Friday, The Japan Times, the country’s oldest and largest English-language newspaper, ran an editorial that stated, simply, “The dolphin hunt is an inhumane practice that should be stopped.”

The editorial breathed new life into the controversy over the Taiji slaughter, in which roughly 900 dolphins are killed annually in the tiny fishing village, and it led activists to declare a small but significant victory.

“It surprised me,” says Ric O’Barry of Earth Island Institute’s Dolphin Project and star of the Academy Award–winning documentary The Cove.



http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/02/05/stunner-japanese-newspaper-op-ed-condemns-taiji-dolphin-hunt?cmpid=tpanimals-eml-2014-02-08-japan
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
Hollywood Celebs to Obama: Please Save the 'Cove' Dolphins
Russell Simmons, Sean Penn, Cher, Susan Sarandon, and other stars want Taiji dolphin slaughter tied to U.S. trade agreement with Japan.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/02/06/celebrities-send-letter-kennedy-taiji?cmpid=tpanimals-eml-2014-02-08-japan

Are you looking at me?
Are you looking at me?
Credit: karen roseme
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 9, 2014 - 05:51pm PT
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/15/what-happens-when-you-feed-wild-killer-whale?cmpid=tp-ad-outbrain-general
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 9, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
Karen, I sympathize only lightly with you. Here's why:

Dolphins, and to a lesser degree, whales, are the closest thing to human-kind that we have in the seas. They are like 'water-dogs'.

Dolphins are especially dear to me because I've seen them close-hand. They are curious and even protective of other warm-blooded creatures. They often times follow our fishing boats too as we return from fishing when I'm in Florida w/ my Dad. They will surface and you can look them in they eye, as they watch you!

What the f*#king Japanese do to whales and ESPECIALLY dolphins is a crime against human nature.

Why? They don't have to kill dolphins! They've already raped the sea of tuna on their part of ocean. They raped albacore, and they're encouraging the raping of abalone on my shores here.

They have no regard for how to preserve a habitat, which is the definition of a conservationist. They just destroy, they don't preserve the habitat or the species for future harvesting.

Can we nuke Japan again?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 9, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
Yeah, rSin, we are just racists for criticizing Jap culture.


Whatever...f*#k you!

If you're ripping fins off sharks and throwing 'the rest' away, you're a d#@&%e.


Killing dolphins in mass in a cove? You may be a d#@&%e!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 9, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
Poor SOBS nearly killed us.. I sick of the WHOLE OF ASIA myself. Japan? Korea? China? fekk em all.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 9, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
Rsin, you have demonstrated that you're an Asshole. Stop going over the proving grounds, bro.

The Japs, in their quest for fish, are destroying their very dinner table. They are blind if they can't see they're killing the traditional Goose that is laying their eggs.

Maybe we don't have to nuke them again, they're killing themseleves. Look at their population rates and their culture. They are dead.

Sad stuff. We're next.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 10:19am PT

Credit: karen roseme





Credit: karen roseme





Credit: karen roseme

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Feb 10, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
I stumbled across blackfish last night and got sucked into watching it...Amazing how many killer whale attacks and deaths have occurred at these venues ...Even more amazing is how Sea World has swept it under the rug while continuing to provide a dangerous work environment for its' trainers...I worked with this high school kid back in 80 cutting firewood..He moved on and became a trainer at sea world in San Diego..
..He was interviewed in the documentary stating that there was no inherent danger working with the killer whales...Sounded like a company man..
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
rottingjohnny you are so right!

The reason they continue is money!, 2.7 billion dollars per year!!!
They need a new business model.
Build some rides! build an Imax movie theater.
Making wild animals do tricks for food is archaic and just plain cruel.
It is also extremely dangerous for the trainers who's credentials are that they are good swimmers.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 10, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
Mark Simmons?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Feb 10, 2014 - 01:12pm PT


They could CLOSE all those damned Dolphin and Whale shows down 100% for all I care...

Why the fuk people think it's so cool that you can teach a Whale to play "fetch" is beyond me...

So much COOLER to see them in their own environment...

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Feb 10, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Nature...Wasn't Mark Simmons..The guys mom lives in town here so i take the 5th....Tanked whales..? Anything to make a buck eh...?
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
I couldn't agree more Locker!
Nature, what do you know about Mark Simmons?
Seems like he is on the take to me.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 10, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
as RJ pointed out (even though he was referring to someone else) - He's a good company man.


And he's somehow invested i a company that trains and captures cetaceans.


He's a d#@&%e.
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 10, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022166728_orcaferryxml.html

**Orcas circle ferry transporting tribal artifacts to Bainbridge Island
A large pod of orcas swam around a Washington state ferry in an impressive display as it happened to be carrying tribal artifacts to a new museum at the ancestral home of Chief Seattle.**

By DOUG ESSER
The Associated Press

A large pod of orcas swam around a Washington state ferry in an impressive display as it happened to be carrying tribal artifacts to a new museum at the ancestral home of Chief Seattle, and some people think it was more than a coincidence.

Killer whales have been thrilling whale watchers this week in Puget Sound, according to the Orca Network, which tracks sightings. But they were especially exciting Tuesday when nearly three dozen orcas surrounded the ferry from Seattle as it approached the terminal on Bainbridge Island. On board were officials from The Burke Museum in Seattle who were moving ancient artifacts to the Suquamish Museum.

The artifacts were dug up nearly 60 years ago from the site of the Old Man House in Kitsap County, the winter village for the Suquamish tribe and home of Chief Sealth, also known as Chief Seattle. The Burke, a natural-history museum on the University of Washington campus, is known for Northwest Coast and Alaska Native art.

Also on board the state ferry was Suquamish Tribal Chairman Leonard Forsman, who happened to be returning from an unrelated event. As the ferry slowed near the terminal, it was surrounded by the orcas, Forsman said Wednesday.

“They were pretty happily splashing around, flipping their tails in the water,” he said. “We believe they were welcoming the artifacts home as they made their way back from Seattle, back to the reservation.”
The killer whales have been in Puget Sound feeding on a large run of chum salmon, he said. “We believe the orcas took a little break from their fishing to swim by the ferry, to basically put a blessing on what we were on that day,” he said.

Forsman believes there’s a spiritual tie between the tribe and the orcas. “They are fishermen like we are,” he said. It was an auspicious arrival for about 500 artifacts that The Burke Museum had held for nearly 60 years, Suquamish Museum Director Janet Smoak said.

They include tools, decorative items and bits of bone and rock that date back 2,000 years.

The Old Man House — the largest known longhouse on the Salish Sea — was located at Suquamish on the shore of Agate Passage, about 13 miles northwest of Seattle. Chief Sealth, for whom Seattle is named, is buried there.

The longhouse was burned down by the U.S. government in the late 1800s. The artifacts were collected by a University of Washington archaeological investigation in the 1950s, according to the Burke Museum. In 2012, the tribe completed its new museum, which includes a climate-controlled environment. The artifacts will be displayed to illustrate Suquamish culture in an exhibit called Ancient Shores Changing Tides.
Everyone was talking about the orcas at the Tuesday museum-blessing ceremony and feast, Smoak said. “Everyone was really excited and moved by the event,” she said.

The orcas, identified from their markings as members of the J and K pods, were seen this week along several routes between the Seattle area and the west side of Puget Sound, according to Howard Garrett of the Orca Network at Freeland, Island County. He thought their intersection with the ferry carrying tribal artifacts was uncanny.

“I can’t rule out somehow they could pick up on the mental energy that there is something special there. Or it could be a coincidence,” he said. “I don’t know.”

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 10, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
Freedom for fishes too:
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 10, 2014 - 04:26pm PT



sign petition here: www.goldfishfreedom. com
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Feb 10, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
"Poor SOBS nearly killed us.. I sick of the WHOLE OF ASIA myself. Japan? Korea? China? fekk em all."

The shithole of moundhouse is probably safe Ron. I thought you only hated Hispanic and African Americans? Guess we can add Asian to the list...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 10, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
I dont hate ANY American atchafellatio ..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Feb 10, 2014 - 06:42pm PT
Ron..do you still keep guppies in your water bed...?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 10, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
No RJ,, my parrot poked a hole init and ate em,, like sushi.



karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
Your right nature I did some research Simmons is a total D#@&%e.
Sea World is putting out a lot of anti Blackfish propaganda right now.
They have soooooooooooooo much money to throw around!

From Variety magazine


The SeaWorld backlash continues to spread as the theme park’s former employees who are profiled in the documentary “Blackfish” have demanded that it denounce the capture and termination of almost 250 bottlenose dolphins near Taiji, Japan.

“SeaWorld’s silence in the midst of this record-breaking dolphin cull is deafening, atrocious and telling,” “Blackfish” cast member Dr. Jeffrey Ventre said in a press release. “Why don’t they lend their voice like Ambassador Carolyn Kennedy and Yoko Ono Lennon? SeaWorld tries to call itself a conservation organization, yet it doesn’t take action here because the drive fishery is a source of cheap assets for the marine mammal display industry, of which it is the largest player.”

This is just the latest in a series of events involving the theme park since the release last summer of Gabriela Cowperthwaite’s film about an orca that killed a SeaWorld Orlando trainer while in captivity. Musicians like the Beach Boys, Pat Benatar and Barenaked Ladies have backed out of performances at the marine park and its sister parks and advocates have pressured SeaWorld partners like Southwest Airlines to drop all sponsorship deals.

Before SeaWorld went silent about the doc, it described the film as “shamefully dishonest, deliberately misleading and scientifically inaccurate.”

SEE ALSO: 'Blackfish' Director Talks About the Power of Film to Effect Change


The SeaWorld backlash continues to spread as the theme park’s former employees who are profiled in the documentary “Blackfish” have demanded that it denounce the capture and termination of almost 250 bottlenose dolphins near Taiji, Japan.

“SeaWorld’s silence in the midst of this record-breaking dolphin cull is deafening, atrocious and telling,” “Blackfish” cast member Dr. Jeffrey Ventre said in a press release. “Why don’t they lend their voice like Ambassador Carolyn Kennedy and Yoko Ono Lennon? SeaWorld tries to call itself a conservation organization, yet it doesn’t take action here because the drive fishery is a source of cheap assets for the marine mammal display industry, of which it is the largest player.”

This is just the latest in a series of events involving the theme park since the release last summer of Gabriela Cowperthwaite’s film about an orca that killed a SeaWorld Orlando trainer while in captivity. Musicians like the Beach Boys, Pat Benatar and Barenaked Ladies have backed out of performances at the marine park and its sister parks and advocates have pressured SeaWorld partners like Southwest Airlines to drop all sponsorship deals.

Before SeaWorld went silent about the doc, it described the film as “shamefully dishonest, deliberately misleading and scientifically inaccurate.”

SEE ALSO: 'Blackfish' Director Talks About the Power of Film to Effect Change

TMJesse I loved that story.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 10, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
The shithole of moundhouse is probably safe Ron. I thought you only hated Hispanic and African Americans? Guess we can add Asian to the list...


So I cannot criticize anybody for illegal or unethical behavior if they're a minority? Pretty typical liberal bullsh#t.

Illegal aliens breaking immigration laws and abusing our freebies = racist, you hate brown people.

Asians raping our oceans to quell their appetite for fish = racist, you hate the yellow folks.

African-immigrants telling Christian cultures they have to accept their culture after the minority culture is accepted into country = racist, you're intolerant of 3rd world cultures. You hate black people.

You people are stupid and are promoting the destruction of a vibrant culture, that ironically, so many come to embrace, or take advantage of.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
Judgment Day has arrived for SeaWorld—well, at least in the court of public opinion.

Tonight, the documentary about captive orcas, Blackfish, premieres on CNN. The film centers on the 2010 death of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau by Tilikum, raising serious questions about the highly profitable practice of keeping killer whales in captivity. While SeaWorld has criticized film, they have declined requests by CNN to be interviewed on camera. But, this week, company spokesman Fred Jacobs did provide written answers to a few of the most poignant issues in the documentary.

Most of these topics are discussed in my book, Death at SeaWorld: Shamu and the Dark Side of Killer Whales in Captivity. Readers will recognize SeaWorld’s latest attempt at positive spin as part of its eternal drive to make orcas in swimming pools appear to be a good thing, especially for the whales.

Here are some of the main points raised in the CNN Q&A with Jacobs, paired with what I discovered researching Death at SeaWorld.


Killer Whales in Captivity: 7 Reasons They Should Be Free

Conservation

Jacobs wrote SeaWorld has “assisted whales many times, including killer whales,” who were lost or stranded. But in at least three cases, SeaWorld seemed more interested in sending these orcas into a life of captivity to entertain tourists, rather than releasing them back into the ocean.

First there was Springer, a young female discovered in Puget Sound in 2002, alone and undernourished. As I reported, the main organizations working to help Springer were the U.S. National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), the Vancouver Aquarium, the Center for Whale Research, and OrcaLab, on Johnstone Strait in British Columbia, the summer home to Springer’s pod.

Springer was eventually caught and transferred to a netted-off pen, where she could be fed and cared for. Many scientists and activists wanted to see her returned to her family, but her fate was uncertain.

According to my sources, SeaWorld wanted to see Springer taken captive. “The SeaWorld vet tried his best to find something wrong with Springer that would dictate that she be moved to a SeaWorld tank,” Howard Garrett of the Orca Network told me this week. He and his wife Susan Berta spent time with Springer in Washington.

Springer had settled near the Vashon Island ferry dock. “She chose one of the best fishing spots in Puget Sound, and was seen catching salmon with ease,” Garrett recalls. “She was always very active and alert. In the hour Springer was captured, we watched her do half a dozen breaches or half breaches. We didn't see anything about her condition to worry about.”

But, at the time, SeaWorld veterinarian Jim McBain told The Seattle Times that, "We're still worried about the next step. Her condition is a concern. This is not a robust killer whale.”

According to Garrett, "It was only the resounding voices of orca experts and conservationists who absolutely opposed captivity that turned efforts toward finding a way to transport her back to Johnstone Strait, where she did rejoin her family within 24 hours. She soon became an adopted member of her aunt's matritine and returned this year with her own newborn."


Shouka, ‘World’s Loneliest Whale,’ Relocated to SeaWorld San Diego to Live With Fellow Orcas

Jacobs also mentions a young female rescued off the coast of the Netherlands, named Morgan. Despite attempts by scientists and activists to win the whale's freedom, Morgan was sent to the Loro Parque theme park, in the Canary Islands, where she remains.

All killer whales at Loro Parque belong to SeaWorld, and now the company lists Morgan as part of their "collection" in papers filed with the SEC. There will be another legal hearing on Morgan's fate next month, but it's clear that SeaWorld has no intention of letting Morgan go. SeaWorld and Loro Parque claim that Morgan is "hearing impaired," but have not released data on how severe the impairment is.

Education

Millions of SeaWorld visitors, Jacobs wrote to CNN, "have experienced killer whales in a way that is personal, enriching and inspirational," adding that it is "our hope" that every SeaWorld visitor will leave the park "with a greater understanding of and appreciation for all the animals we display, including killer whales."

And while SeaWorld is certified by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, meaning they meet minimum conservation requirements, during the several times I visited the park to research my book, I heard virtually nothing that would educate people about killer whales in the wild, how long they live, their social bonds, their hunting patterns, and ways to conserve their threatened natural habitats. Instead, I “learned” that whales like blaring music, roaring crowds, back-flips and French kissing.

Dr. Lori Marino, a prominent whale and dolphin scientist, says there is no reliable evidence that people get educated, or motivated to take action, after visiting a marine park.

“It is not proper to simply ask people whether they have learned or what they think they have learned, or how much they enjoyed the class,” Marino testified in a 2010 Congressional subcommittee hearing on killer whales in captivity. Direct testing of acquired knowledge, and not feel-good public opinion polling, is the only way to properly assess any education program. Industry-sponsored papers “typically involve asking visitors whether they think they have been educated. But they do not actually test knowledge,” she said. “There is no compelling or even strongly suggestive current evidence that visits to zoos and aquariums promote positive attitude change, learning or conservation actions.”

Research

"Much of what is known about the killer whale's anatomy, reproductive biology and capacity to learn was learned at SeaWorld and other accredited zoological institutions," Jacobs wrote.

There is no question that some killer whale research could only be conducted in a tank, and SeaWorld is to be commended for adding to our body of knowledge on the species. But a scan of the scientific studies cited by Jacobs reveals that several were conducted in the ocean, not at SeaWorld. Many studies conducted with SeaWorld orcas pertained mostly to animal husbandry and keeping whales in captivity. Others weren’t really studies at all.


Quality of Life

While Jacobs conceded that "a killer whale can and occasionally might travel as much as 100 miles in a day," he wrote that "swimming that d