rappel with butterfly knot??????


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Blue Mountains Orangutan

Sport climber
Sydney, Australia
Sep 12, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
I've still got no idea what the problem is with the EDK. Yes it looks like it will kill you but we know it doesn't, it's simple to tie, doesn't get caught up, easy to untie. I can't see any reason to use anything else for similar sized ropes. Just dress it well. I also find it weird that climbers tie a backup EDK, it just makes it more likely to get snagged and if you dress the first one well it's pointless.

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Sep 12, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
I've switched over to an even more compact solution then the one I posted earlier. If this was tied with ropes of different diameters, it should be arranged so that the thinner rope is the blue rope, for the same reason explained in my earlier post.

The tails are pictured shorter than they should be for compactness of the illustrations. Testing was done with 100mm tails, 200--300mm recommended for field use.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#538533

A long way from where I started
Dec 26, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
So, what is the downside of the EDK?

As far as I can tell from this short thread, and many other discussions both online and IRL, and years of using it, there is no real-world problem with it, and a lot of advantages.

Yeah, sure, it's hard to accept that something that simple is the best choice. Shouldn't we be using something esoteric instead of what your toddler is learning to tie his shoes with? But really, is there any reason to use something else?

Dec 26, 2018 - 08:23pm PT
So, what is the downside of the EDK?

As far as I can tell from this short thread...

Hmm, subconsciously answers own question?
Long tails and a stopper OH on one strand.


Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 26, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
It must be about 18 years ago, I was climbing at The Gunks with Chick Holtkamp, Bob Yoho, and Dick Williams. We were setting up to do the rap off the top of the McCarthy Wall and Williams threw the ropes together with that butterfly knot. I'd never seen it used for rapping, and dared look at it askance. I don't remember his exact words, but he made me go first. It held.

Trad climber
Dec 26, 2018 - 11:15pm PT
I understand learning new knots. But why add a funky knot that is not mainstream? I hate it it when someone does this on rappel. Most accidents happen with a rappel. Why make all these variations?

Are you trying to be trick? The standard knots have worked for me for 3 decades.


Dec 27, 2018 - 12:06am PT
Link often referred to with data from testing flat overhand and flat figure eight:

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 28, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
KISS I have been climbing 37+ years and I only know about 6 knots. so far that has been just fine.

Mountain climber
The Ocean
Dec 28, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
Whatever happened to whitemeat?

Trad climber
Chamonix, France
Jan 20, 2019 - 03:46am PT
Whatever happened to whitemeat?

Yes, I've wondered this too. Anyone know?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 20, 2019 - 10:48am PT
I wonder if anyone has tested a double fishermans knot with a tail pass through the center on each side to make it a bit easier to untie. Using a knot that loads in line and will accommodate two different diameter ropes is a plus which is why I use it generally
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