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Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
It is the flag of people who enthusiastically attacked and killed American soldiers.

If they were brown skinned and had a different religion, we'd call them terrorists.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
That oughta solve it.

DMT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Confederate flag is nothing. Here in The 909, you're liable to see what I saw at the grocery store the other day: A gal with a saucer-sized Swastika tattooed in the tramp-stamp position.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
"Don't tread on me!"

"I have every right to say anything I want to say!"

"I have every right to do anything I want to do!"

"I have every right to have any gun I want to have!"

"If you don't like this, you are a commie-loving liberal!"
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Have to agree on low life racist maggots. But right or wrong the confederate flag means more to lot of southerners than a legacy of racism. I don't think it can be beat out of them but I hope you try!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:45pm PT

I'm still trying to figure this one out.

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
Most of the men that did the dying on the Southern side never owned a slave, and yes, they're Americans too.

I agree racism is way wrong.


I would submit that I also have the right to store my #4-Camalot fists inside oral cavities as well.

Actually, one is considered free speech, and one is considered assault.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Pride of the underdogs. Understand that most who fought were not slave holders and were not fighting for plantations' rights. The subsequent 50 years of carpet bagging 'reconstruction' built a multi-generational antipathy. Racism crept back in with the 2nd ku klux klan. Racism is there now and somewhat prevalent. So too is it here in CA though its less overt here.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
A gal with a saucer-sized Swastika tattooed in the tramp-stamp position.

Maybe she's a Hindu.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
why tell us? go do it
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
The Southeren Flag has nothing to do with Racsitism per say, it's not about slaves it's about Rebellion . standing up to what was perceived at the time as Ecomomic Slaverey of the South by the North. It's about Southeren Pride. . .
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
It was about the freedom to enslave others.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
150 years after slavery was outlawed ,political interest groups are still ginning up and inflaming a new Civil War of sorts.

I've yet to hear a reasonable justification for "pride" in fighting for a portion of our nation that stood for such terrible practices.

The fact that Jim Crow laws and widespread segregation and discrimination existed in the 1940s did not prevent many brave soldiers , black and white and Latino and Asian, from fighting and dying for their country in WWII .
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
I'm not sure I understand the difference between owning a slave and fighting for that right, or not owning one and fighting for that right. It's a mentality that is not justifiable. I've yet to hear a reasonable justification for "pride" in fighting for a portion of our nation that stood for such terrible practices.

Perhaps you should read up on the issue. Some people like to oversimplify the issue. Kind of like blaming Obama for all federal debt that has accrued during his presidency.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
The whole ending slavery thing came up with Lincoln all after the wAr began. I don't care if you westerners don't get it. Those who did he fighting were not fighting to uphold slavery. They were fighting for their country and to this day many southerners take pride in that. Twist it any Y you wish. My experience is low brow people ENOY violence and threatening people.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
http://www.historynet.com/americas-civil-war-missouri-and-kansas.htm


The Kansas/Missouri border wars...^^^^^
Deekaid

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
itg troll
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
For anyone who might be interested:

http://dixieoutfitters.com/p/franchise-stores
Deekaid

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
uh oh, sketch ...it is small but it is there ...prepare for itg knuckle sandwich
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
This one is worth a read!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-woman-recalls-day-saved-alleged-kkk-member-mob-article-1.1501050

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
Racism is there now and somewhat prevalent. So too is it here in CA though its less overt here.

I don't know about that. When I go back to southern Indiana, which is the South, not mid-west, I notice it's now much more integrated than what I see here in LA.

And slavery had a lot to do with the Civil War.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Check out footnote 1 to In re Brown,180 B.R. 325, 1995 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 4871, (U.S.D.C. S.D. Ga. 1995)

[I added the boldface and italics in that footnote]

OPINION BY: B. AVANT EDENFIELD

OPINION


[*325] ORDER

The Browns filed this appeal from an order of Chief Judge Lamar Davis of the United States Bankruptcy Court. Appellees have filed a motion to dismiss, which the Court now grants.

Pursuant to Bankruptcy Rule 8007, the Record on Appeal was docketed with this Court on November 10, 1994, obligating Appellants to file their brief within fifteen days. Bankruptcy Rule 8009(a)(1). Appellants filed their brief on February 3, 1995, more than two months later. They missed the deadline. 1 Although the Court readily grants extensions [**2] of time if counsel is faced with a family emergency, here (a) Appellants' counsel never asked the Court for an extension [*326] in light of his father's illness, 2 and (b) that unfortunate occurrence cannot account for missing the deadline by nine weeks.

FOOTNOTES

1 The word "deadline" was coined by Union soldiers held at the Andersonville prison camp during the War of Northern Aggression. Confederate guards summarily executed any prisoner crossing a preordained line on the camp grounds; thus, the term "deadline." See McKinley Cantor, Andersonville (1955). While the Court does not contemplate as harsh a rejoinder to Appellants' counsel's crossing of this Court's preordained line, it will still be, well, "fatal" to his claim. See also Burns v. Savannah Airport Comm'n, CV 493-240 (S.D.Ga. Oct. 21, 1994) (making remarkably similar observations).

2 Counsel first asked for leave to file his brief on January 26, 1995, two months after it was due. The Court hopes it is not unduly troubling anyone by kindly requesting that motions for extensions of time be filed before the deadline for filing the materials in question.


[**3] Normally the Court would end here, but Appellants' response to Appellee's motion to dismiss requires the Court to pursue some necessary clarifications on the subject of inexcusable--as opposed to excusable--delay. FIRST: Blaming the United States Postal Service DOES NOT CREATE EXCUSABLE DELAY. SECOND: Blaming the lack of resources that plagues many sole practitioners DOES NOT CREATE EXCUSABLE DELAY. THIRD: Blaming the flu DOES NOT CREATE EXCUSABLE DELAY. FOURTH: Blaming the Court for "extended holiday breaks" DOES NOT CREATE EXCUSABLE DELAY. 3 FIFTH: Blaming clients for as of yet only paying "a small portion of the fees incurred in prosecuting this action" DOES NOT CREATE EXCUSABLE DELAY.

FOOTNOTES

3 The Court was closed for one weekday during the month of December, 1995: the day after Christmas.


The Court sincerely hopes that the above enumerations further guide members of the bar along the path of trouble-free litigation. Appellee's motion to dismiss this appeal [**4] is GRANTED.

SO ORDERED this 28th day of February, 1995.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
That's interesting, John...but what's your point, exactly?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
Congratulations, sketch. You have much to be proud of.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
They were fighting for their country


Most of them were fighting for their state.

They already had a country, but they just didn't like where it was going, with an abolitionist in the White House and all.

This whole human rights movement was not gonna be good for business.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
Apogee, my point is that in 1995, a United States District Judge (in some ways the most powerful federal position) referred to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression." Admittedly, the entire opinion was written with his tongue firmly in his cheek, but even that humor discloses an attitude.

While I agree with Gary, both that racism is at least as prevalent in LA as it is in "the south" and that slavery was a very significant factor in the Civil War ab initio, there was still a feeling among non-slaveholding southerners that they were being exploited and invaded by the north.

John
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
I think it's good to be reminded how terrible we can be as human beings, to each other

dr heal thyself
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
Most of them were fighting for their state.

They already had a country, but they just didn't like where it was going, with an abolitionist in the White House and all.

Dave, I think you're correct that they were fighting for their state, but most thought of their state as their country. Robert E. Lee's words were that he owed "a duty to my country, Virginia."

And Sketch, while I agree that the rebel flag has a meaning different from racism for many, it has the meaning implied by the lynching in the picture Gary posted for a great many as well. Under the First Amendment, we protect offensive speech, but the fact that speech is protected does not make it inoffensive.

John
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
I thought the Confederate Flag was symbolic of the Dukes of Hazard and the General Lee.

Racism sucks.....so does any type of "ism"

Unfortunately, I see our country becoming more divided along race and or religious lines.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
This whole human rights movement was not gonna be good for business.

That was only true for a select few plantation owners. Overall it should
have been very good if it hadn't have been for the carpetbaggers and
a few other minor inconveniences like not being able to vote and such.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
That was only true for a select few plantation owners.

Oh no, Lincoln was gunna take yer job and destroy every hard-working white man's way of life.

The Koch Brothers ... er ... I mean, the plantation owners said it, so it's gotta be true.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Let me guess - you're going, to...rise again?

All the viagra in the world couldn't make that happen

You're not really as stupid as you seem, are you?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
Whoever controls the media, controls the mind.
-Jim Morrison
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
Wow.

You've got some giant testicles - you ask ME that ^^^

after you post this?

You're just trolling, too?

My mistake.

I thought you were serious about all this silliness.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
too bad you didn't see one because you would either be arrested or in the hospital yourself and we would not have to endure this thread.

don't get me wrong I fundamentally agree with you I just cannot stand internet sh#t talking as it pertains to kicking someone's ass

and speaking of enduring I am out of this troll thread
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Let's start off a thread about a sensitive subject with the threat of violence and see where it goes, shall we?
beaner

Social climber
Maine
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
Here in Maine, especially outside of the greater Portland area, it isn't that uncommon to see some stupid redneck with a confederate flag bumper sticker. This is despite the fact that this as#@&%e most likely has ancestors that fought against the Confederacy in the Civil War (Maine contributed the most soldiers in proportion to its population). I don't get it. I guess that's why they call us the "deep south of the north" (southern and coastal Maine are quite liberal, the rest of Maine is not).

Confederate flag is nothing. Here in The 909, you're liable to see what I saw at the grocery store the other day: A gal with a saucer-sized Swastika tattooed in the tramp-stamp position.

I was sitting my my car in the parking lot at Trader Joe's / Eastern Mountain Sports in Portland Maine. My young son had fallen asleep, so my wife had gone into TJ's while I waited. Two dudes came walking down the side walk, one was shirtless, pretty ripped, and sporting a huge swastika tattoo on his chest -- like Ed Norton straight out of American History X). Dude grabs a button-up shirt that was hanging off his belt and throws it on before heading into Trader Joe's. A little while later I see him and his buddy come out. As soon as he was out the door he started unbuttoning his shirt and had it off by the time he hit the sidewalk. I was pretty shocked and disgusted. I've grown up in Maine and never really though of Neo Nazis as having much of a presence.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
joke time

http://www.f*#kthesouth.com

^^funny shit!^^
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Your thread title, like so much of what's posted in off topic/controversial threads, is way over the top. Unfortunately, posters who make these over the top posts often think their statements are completely appropriate... undeserving of criticism or mockery. That's flawed thinking.

If you want to have a serious discussion, don't start it with inflammatory nonsense.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
I seriously question the pervasive stereotype of racist Southerners. I aver
that an equal percentage exist in Yankee Land. I suppose we should consult
with the Southern Poverty Law Center on this.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Lynyrd Skynyrd rocks. Racists suck. Skynyrd rocks the suck.

Burch, you don't want to be like this guy, do you?

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/03/26/88817/bumper-sticker-violence/

I suggest you engage them in a conversation, tell them Jesus was black and sucked cawks for a living. That should give you everything you need to defend yourself.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
I have zero tolerance for racism.
this just in

climber
north fork
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Intolerance for intolerance.
Club

climber
Birmingham
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Burchy Buddy,

I know you are emotional right now. You have been to a movie that was made to touch you that way. And that's OK. But please, now that you're interested in the topic go get some huge volumes of good books that cover that whole historic period of our incredible nation.

Oh and by the way, #4 Camalot is tight hands for me.

Martin
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Intolerance for intolerance.

In this case, yes. Without a doubt.

Edit; To be clear, I'm not condoning violence. I'm not a violent person.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Yay! Fight racism with violence.
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
Oh when will we learn we cant beat anything out of anyone.
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
Racism is almost dead. Predudice is a human trait....and isnt going anywhere. See any comment on this forum with the word redneck in it.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Racism is not dead. It's just not as out in the open, like it used to be.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
TEARS

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
Funny.....Nearly all Germans avoid connecting with their Nazi past with a vengeance....as they should. Many Southerners glorify their Confederate past....as they shouldn't.
Club

climber
Birmingham
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
//#2 Postulating that somehow my assertion that a confederate flag symbolizes, at its core, the attitude that supported and fought/died for the right to keep slaves, will be smashed to bits if I just do a little more research. Wrong on both counts, I'd say.//

I don't think it will be smashed to bits. I just think you will find more perspective.

but nice and big to hold on to your heritage.

I don't suppose it matters to you I'm African American.

Martin Colter
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
Things grow so well in the US because of the blood-soaked soil...
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
#4 camalots is tips locks for me.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
someone was just telling me
that folkss would take their
lunches to an overlook of the
battle fields and spectate
the civil war engagements.

like a lunch date,
"hey, let's go watch some bloodshed!"

burchy those kind of fist fights
haunt the conscience. they sound good
at the onset of the conflict,
though afterwards it is usually
clear to me that i should have
and would have been better heard
if i chose another means to
convey my message.

this realization doesn't mean i'll cease
my immaturity.

i've worn and will wear again
some dandy asse hats.

mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
A gal with a saucer-sized Swastika tattooed in the tramp-stamp position.

Maybe she's a Hindu


Maybe she's Navajo.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
Ok class, American History 101...remember it?
The Civil War was about the states rights to self determination, in effect to secede from the union and go it alone. Slavery didn't become the motivating issue until 1862 when Lincoln emancipated the slaves IN THE REBELLIOUS STATES only. He did so in order to cripple the rebels war efforts.

As for the swaztika...aka the running wheel, stolen from the Hindus where it's a symbol of good luck or auspiciousness.

You probably don't want to go to prison for assault without having your facts straight eh?
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
Hmmm....the Hindu's? Chicken or the egg?


http://nativeamericanjewelrytips.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/native-american-symbol-whirling-log-swastika/
Club

climber
Birmingham
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
I'm going to have to say I don't believe you. Brothers don't say "buddy".

OK look Boy. I tried being polite with you. You came into this swinging. Why don't you come down to Kolivar district and check out my pigment.

MC
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
This thread just got even wierder. Burchy, if you think you are above all the other stupid people out there, think again
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Id say look to your own posts for some "overt racism" Burchey...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
America has mostly moved beyond "overt" racisim. Unfortunately, the insidious racisim we now see will be very difficult to stamp out.
gimmeslack

Trad climber
VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/Is-the-KKK-Active-in-Churchville-230572121.html


Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, eh?
:-/
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
"Bros dont say Buddy"??? Really Burchey?? Stereo typing are we?

You remind me of harry reid-tard sying he doesnt know why ANY hispanic in the country wouldnt vote dem.

Now ill let you extrapolate,, transmogrify and examine those statements and how they point directly to pre conceived notion and stereo typing...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
"Bros dont say Buddy"

Strange, my daughters black coach calls me buddy all the time.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
Never mind,
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Historiography is a funny thing. Spin is always baked in. And the winners write the history...
Personally I've always been suspicious of mainline historical explanations for this reason. And in the 70s, when I was studying history various revisionist interpretations of the civil war were floating around. The marxist 'its all about economic domination dummy' line seemed plausible enough but I never really looked into much. But just now I found this website. At least on first blush it seems to disprove the economic interpretation... and support the slavery interpretation. Of course the real world is complicated....

http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=92

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Mannn,, 55 yrs old and im getting preached by a wanna be redneck youth LMAO!


This isnt going well for you Burch. Ive been to many southern states and hung with many Black Americans and even some Real Africans. I too found them capable of a full vocabulary as Survival mentions ,, including "buddy",, "Pal" AND "Doood"- can you believe it!!!!!!!!
And heres a real mind blower for you,, some of those Black Folk i hung with ALSO has confederate flags. Yaaahhh wrap yur head round that one!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
"Are you a drama queen in real life? "

Pot - Kettle - Black
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
Well to me, it appears you have accidentally divulged a bigoted stereo typing and not as a troll but just plain ol slipping of the fingers as you typed.


"Black people dont say this or that" was about all i needed to instantly see that. Just like your OP of wanting to "fight" owners of confederate flags. And you have no clue why they have those flags in the first place other than some preconceived stereo typing of anyone having a confederate flag is some KKK racist type. Did you graduate from Berkeley by chance?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Epic.

Ron F*#king Anderson chimes in on something,

Bow down to his knowledge.

He knows more about everything than everyone else.

Seriously, bow down. Ron wants to be king of ST.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
Hardly brandon,, that would be like wanting to be the king of the leppers and loonies colony.
okie

Trad climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
This California yuppie is really worked up over that flag, huh? Wonder how much his boss pays him to go off ranting on the Taco.
He's off climbing now with his skinny cord and rack o' draws so the bloody fight for righteousness will have to wait until he's back on the clock after the weekend of playing.
Southern Man didn't need that carpetbagger Neil Young around...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
some of those Black Folk i hung with ALSO has confederate flags.

Yeah, I bet they has.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
Trollin' is easy anymore here on the Taco. With all that medicine floating around , you'd think things would be a lot mellower, especially among(st) humpers of rock
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
The Civil War was about the states rights to self determination

In particular, their perceived right to F*#KING OWN other human beings.


That "states rights" euphemism is the biggest copout in American ... nay ... world history.

Goddamned right I'm a Califonia yuppie, off the clock and climbing this weekend.

But I was born a Pennsylvania Yankee...and my great great grandaddy marched with Sherman. Carried a torch when they burned Atlanta.

Not kidding!
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
I wonder if the Johnny Reb soldier even thought about that kind of sh#t when he was blasting away at his cousin from 4 counties north of the farm. Ass end of a mule, butt end of a rifle.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Burchey....

If you are still planning on moving to Asheville NC, I suggest you best prepare yourself for one bigass rude awakening. That there REB flag will be a regular sight on many back windows of them old rusted Ford/Chevy pick em ups with the shotgun and/or 30/30 etc hanging on the inside around them neck of the woods.

Seriously.


Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
Earlier in the month, I spent a day at Antietam. Truly a spiritual place. The cornfield, the bridge, the sunken road...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Ron retorted
And heres a real mind blower for you,, some of those Black Folk i hung with ALSO has confederate flags. Yaaahhh wrap yur head round that one!

Ugh, this thread Just.....ugh.
Gene

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
I’m going way OT here for your Eastside history lesson.

During the Civil War, Lone Pine was a Confederate community. Independence was Yankee. Back then, the CSA Alabama, a Confederate raider, was reeking havoc on Yankee shipping. The good folks of Lone Pine named that hilly movie set east of town after the CSA Alabama.

In June 1864, a Yankee ship defeated the Alabama outside Cherbourg. That scurvy-ridden Union boat was the Kearsarge. Hence today you will find outside of Independence Kearsarge Pass, Kearsarge Peak, Kearsarge Lakes, Kearsarge Pinnacles, etc.

Bet you didn't know that. Carry on.

g
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
"During the Civil War, Lone Pine was a Confederate community. Independence was Yankee. Back then, the CSA Alabama, a Confederate raider, was reeking havoc on Yankee shipping. The good folks of Lone Pine named that hilly movie set east of town after the CSA Alabama.

In June 1864, a Yankee ship defeated the Alabama outside Cherbourg. That scurvy-ridden Union boat was the Kearsarge...."



sources? not that i dont believe you, I just want to read more
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Burchey...Or you could join Chiefy down in Chalabama where football's still the roughest sport around...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:00am PT
DDS style...supposedly the mason dixon line if extended , separated Lone Pine and Independence or as a friend calls it , co-dependence...
Gene

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:16am PT
sources? not that i dont believe you, I just want to read more

The skipper of the Alabama is my great uncle X 5, Raphael Semmes. One of my most prized possessions is Uncle’s sword which was given back to him by the Captain of the Kearsarge after the Alabama struck its colors.

Alabama Hills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Hills

USS Kearsarge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kearsarge_(1861);

CSS Alabama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Alabama

Kearsarge Pass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kearsarge_Pass

Kearsarge Peak: http://www.summitpost.org/kearsarge-peak/151874

Cool, huh?

g
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:20am PT
yea it is a trip. i am gonna see if they have anything in the Eastern California Museum in Independence.
Gene

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:21am PT
Let me know what you find. Thanks.
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:29am PT
will do
MisterE

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:36am PT
Nice troll, Reb.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:42am PT
I was born in the South and grew up in a border state; the Stars and Bars should be buried and done with!

Nostalgia for what never was is known as propaganda when kept alive for political currency.

Appomattox should have settled the deal. We need another Sherman...
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:54am PT
That's good stuff Gene!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Nov 9, 2013 - 02:47am PT
I was under the impression that the war originally occurred over whether or not states have the right to secede from the Union. As stated up thread, the slavery issue came to bear after the war had begun. It was a major factor for sure, but hardly the only one.

You want a real example of glorifying slavers and mass murderers, look into the life history of Mr. Chris Columbus.
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:21am PT
I don't get that intelligent people in South Carolina put up with that Rebel Flag incorporated in the design of the state flag. In the battle of Gettysburg alone, 53,000 men died. The south lost 28,000 and the north lost 23,000 in a three day battle. That rebel flag represents 200 + years of human suffering under slavery-The North won the war- someone should tell South Carolina, and in deference to the men who died and the men that won the war-they need a new design-history lesson.. right..South Carolina's flag is offensive to say the least, and racist.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:28am PT
Alabama Hills is choss.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:42am PT
I was under the impression that the war originally occurred over whether or not states have the right to secede from the Union. As stated up thread, the slavery issue came to bear after the war had begun. It was a major factor for sure, but hardly the only one.

Details... schmetails.

Nobody cares that ending slavery wasn't a Civil War issue until more than a year after fighting began.

Manamachen - I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding the SC flag. It's a white palmetto tree and a white crescent moon on a blue background.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:13am PT
The Confederacy fought the Civil War so that a few southern aristocrats like Robert (religious fanatic) E. Lee could maintain their famously privileged lifestyles. The fact that this lifestyle could only be maintained with the dehumanization of an entire race of people somehow slipped thru their "christian" moral filter.
The war could only be fought on the backs of poor whites who were nearly as far away from the genteel lifestyle of their generals as the slaves who made it possible.
An interesting parallel today is the way the Republican Party gets poor whites to vote for policies which are clearly against their best interests.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:15am PT
Tarzan spewed
f that whole war thing was to free slaves, and 500,000 white people died to free them, why haven't they done more with that opportunity?

ugh this thread. THIS F*#KING THREAD!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:21am PT
^^^Did he actually say that?

He did say that.


Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:22am PT
I was under the impression that the war originally occurred over whether or not states have the right to secede from the Union.


It was about slavery.

How it started:

 Southern states were concerned that slavery was going to be eventually outlawed by the federal government. They saw a trend in recent legislation limiting the expansion of slavery in the new western states, and with the growing abolitionist movement. So they figured it was only a matter of time that slavery would be outlawed completely by the federal government.

 Lincoln was elected president in a somewhat unexpected victory (3 way race.) The Republican party was founded on an anti-slavery platform, so the south saw this as a huge warning sign.

 Southern states decided they didn't want to be part of a country that would not allow slavery, so they just declared themselves part of another country (secession.)

 Lincoln said that secession was not legal per the Constitution (at the time it was unclear if it was.) US federal troops remained in southern bases, but took no action.

 Confederate soldiers from South Carolina attacked the US federal base at Fort Sumter.

 Lincoln mobilized the US Army and went to war, with the goal of keeping the southern states as part of the United States (the Union.)

The war was legally/technically about the right to secede, and Lincoln never argued that "we must go to war to free the slaves." Since slavery was still legal at the time, Lincoln had no legal justification for going to war over slavery.

But there is no doubt that the primary reason the south wanted to secede was so that they could continue slavery.

[edit: misspelled secede a bunch of times ... same mistake I made in high school! ]
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:38am PT
secession...sorry couldn't help it. There was a clue in the post you cited.

I decided to check back in...train wreck. Stamping out overt racism by posting threats on a rock climbing site. I still say troll. Designed to inflame.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:50am PT
Thanks Dave, for correcting the ignorant crap that Sketch wrote.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Burch3y. . . with threads like this you have the audacity to say you're not a troll?

You are the definition of the word!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 11:03am PT
Chris Mac's next This Week on Supertopo email:

-Ammon Get Well Thread: Wish him well!
-Salathe Soloed in 20 Hours: Holy crap!
-Racism Honeypot Thread: Turns out climbers are bigoted as#@&%es!
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 11:18am PT
you mean some climbers or are you including yourself?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Thanks Dave, for correcting the ignorant crap that Sketch wrote.

Nice projection.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
It's not my fault you're ignorant. It's your fault.

Now go learn something.
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
We should all be like Panda Bears--black, white and Asian.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
BTW a few weeks ago near La Verkin Utah I saw a landscaping business truck that had two confederate flags on it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
California had PLENTY of confederates during the war. LA,, SACTO and many other major towns were PRO CONFEDERATE..That AFTER wiping out the local villagers.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
Wow, the US Civil War wasn't about slavery?

And physics based models that can't predict the future with 100% accuracy are useless... or worse, tools of a vast liberal conspiracy?

sketch is a certified fukwad. One of the dumbest of the dumb asses. Sounding more and more like blahblahblah, TGT, or skipt.


La Verkin is full of some of the worst racists around, rivaling northern ID/MT. I spent a summer there as a yoot. Fuk those guys.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
The Confederacy fought the Civil War so that a few southern aristocrats like Robert (religious fanatic) E. Lee could maintain their famously privileged lifestyles. The fact that this lifestyle could only be maintained with the dehumanization of an entire race of people somehow slipped thru their "christian" moral filter.

Interesting bit of fiction about Robert E. Lee. How many slaves did he own? What was the name of his plantation? You seem to be implying he played a role in secession from The Union. If so, that's total BS.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
It's not my fault you're ignorant. It's your fault.

Now go learn something.

You claimed I posted ignorant crap. What specifically were you talking about? Which statements?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
History is exactly that. Now consider for a moment how in the fact that the USA has LED the world in fighting racism Since that civil war. Where would the African race be today if none of that would have ever taken place?
Would we have a half black president today? Would civil rights be anywhere near what they are today?

I think it was one of Lee's close generals that said the greatest mistake was ever bringing slaves to America in the first place. So where would we all be NOW had it not been for the happenings of the past?

Then consider that Mexicans enslaved Indians, Indians enslaved whites so on and so forth. I believe it was African folk selling other African folk as well. It WASNT an "American" thing. Which is also why it didnt last.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
Donnini's got the religious component bass ackwards.

The antislavery movement began in and was driven by church denominations in the northeast and west.


California had a large Copperhead contingent, so much so that a garrison was placed at Tejon Pass to keep them bottled up in the south. Some of the buildings are still there.

El Monte was a Copperhead hub and the sentiment lingered into the late 1970's with a strong American Nazi party presence.


If there'd never been slavery, there'd never have been a civil war.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:20pm PT


There's more than one flag you should look out for...



Although, the Japan/Korea/China trifecta hate eachother so intensely that maybe they can just deal while we all get really cool designs on our T-Shirts. Ain't no "it's a small world" out East.

And who is doling out these hospital trips, 'ol noodle-arm burch? Lol. Better pray the proud redneck didn't take High School Wrestling bub.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
sketch is a certified fukwad. One of the dumbest of the dumb asses.

Same old mechrist. Unusually high noise to signal ratio.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
White People are so pathetic. Even though a symbol of 'pride' and 'heritage' reminds MILLIONS of others of their oppression and role as second class citizens, ain't no budgin'! IT'S MAH FLAG YOU CAN TEAR FROM MAH COLD DED FINGERS!




So silly. You just have no idea how silly it looks. Please, carry on, and continue to be the laughing stock of the first world. Gives me something to read on a Saturday morning while sipping coffee.

Millions of your brothers and countrymen/women absolutely hate it, but sure. Fly it high and proud, because f*#k them.


elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
I suppose that the US flag is in the same class as the confederate flag in the eyes of many people in SE Asia, and other parts of the world.. we were invaders, baby killers, destroyers of homes and villages, killers of innocent people. It is instructive to look at the flag thing... any flag really.. (as the victors write the history in the context of their ideals).. in the eyes of the solders who actually fought in the wars under the various banners.

To the fighting solder war is not about the grand themes of the conflict, but about the brotherhood of those in battle with them. Soldiers don't fight for political reasons. They fight to stay alive and to keep their brothers in arms alive. No matter the politics. If one looks at the qualities of hard fighting soldiers, no matter the side they fight on, one can't but admire the qualities of courage, sacrifice, selflessness, determination and the willingness to die to save one's friends, under the most horrible of circumstances. I admire great soldiers, and fighting men in general, no matter on what side they fought. I am a graduate of the Virginia Military Institute, the institution which produced many of the commanders of the Southern Armies. Stonewall Jackson was an instructor there before he served and died in the service of his country. It is easy to look at such people from our present enlightenment. However, that is not an accurate view.

People should be viewed as they were in their own time. Jackson overcame many difficulties with intelligence and determination and his tactics are still studied in military schools today... one can say the same for Lee, Longstreet, Grant, Sherman, Romel, Patton... the list goes on and on. As Tennyson(thanks Crunch!) said in the "Charge of the Light Brigade", words to the effect... "ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die". That is the code of the soldier... other people get to weigh alternatives and whether the cause is just... "ours is but to do and die."

At VMI we remember the men who fought with honor, courage, and sacrifice, no matter the side they fought for. For me the confederate flag is a reminder of those men, and a way of honoring their sacrifice... it is not, for me, an endorsement of slavery. Like some have mentioned above,the men who fought under that flag were, most often, just simple men who had nothing to do with slavery and were, for the most part, drafted into service or went with the idea that they were protecting their homes from northern armies who invaded their homeland. The North invaded the South, you may recall. Education levels at that time in history were lower that we now can imagine.. the common man was largely ignorant of most things unrelated to how he was going to eek out a living for his family, in an age of manual labor. So I suggest here that nothing involved in the entire conflict was so simple as many of you seem to think... wars never are!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
About 90% of the southern soldiers NEVER OWNED A SLAVE in their lifes. Most only were richer than slaves by the fact they had a skeewarrel shootin rifle.
If Richmond Virginia wants to honor those that fought bravely then they should. Meanings CHANGE just like America did post war.

Silver lining is: From that war came the largest stride in human rights ever.


Many "groups" called for the Washington Redskins to change their name recently. Even though the vast majority of local Indians seemed totally un-bothered by that. Even thinking its a bit of an Honor. Me thinks this PC crap is yet another avenue to keep the fires of prejudice alive and well.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Interesting bit of fiction about Robert E. Lee. How many slaves did he own? What was the name of his plantation? You seem to be implying he played a role in secession from The Union. If so, that's total BS.

Wow, did shitch just imply Lee was not of prominent plantation stalk? He would have owned slaves and a plantation... if it weren't for his father's poor investments. But don't let reality skew your fantasy world fukwad.


From that war came the largest stride in human rights ever.

The US Civil War wasn't about slavery and the Federal Govt has no right to tell the states what to do? But on the bright side we made strides in human rights because of the Civil War? The naming of a football team and the Civil War are just examples of PC bullshit gone too far? Jesus you fuking idiots crack me up!!!!
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
What bullsh#t. The confederate flag is for d#@&%ebag racists. The southern generals were traitors fighting to keep their status quo. All those states rights, northern aggression, etc. arguments are just an ignorant mask for rank racism.

My ancestors were Irish conscripts who fought for the confederacy , we have old confederate money and other stuff from the war. Whatev, I'm just glad they somehow managed to survive so I could be born and judge them!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
At some point "PC Crap" isn't about isn't about giving up things you love but about being a good person.

The National Congress of American Indians has asked that the team change it's name - I don't think anyone should be legislated to make ANY changes. Want a bible on your store front? Cool. A confederate flag on your truck on the way to the redskins before the clan rally? Go for it. But you are a dick, and I hope to the God you pretend exists that your kids grow up hating you and swing the other direction ;D
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
quick thread drift here... Mr Davis I know you are enamored with MMA but implying that only people with large arms and a wrestling background can fight is pretty naive
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
When i was in Georgia, i asked a new USFS friend why he had the stars and bars flying. He chuckled and told me,,"it aint about slavery - its about being proud of MY state TODAY and not wanting them idiot yankees to come down here and RUIN it." I laughed - telling him i could dig that. Sam is about as Black as Black gets. And some of you guys are just hilarious..
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 9, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
Arguing history with climbers?

Would any of us argue climbing ethics with a noob who just saw Cliffhanger?



As the human race becomes more and more hybridized the issue of race will become moribund.

But here in Washington County, "Utah's Dixie", the stars and bars are ubiquitous, and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a closeted racist (and many don't even bother to hide it).

I live in a town that passed an ordnance banning the flying of a UN flag!
Plenty of Confederate flags though.

Burchy should climb here,...
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
Wow, did shitch just imply Lee was not of prominent plantation stalk? He would have owned slaves and a plantation... if it weren't for his father's poor investments. But don't let reality skew your fantasy world fukwad.

Your claim is conjecture.

What I said is true.

It's pathetic that you get so angry about factual, accurate statements.

Are you really that insecure?

There's nothing like a thread about racism (except maybe gay marriage or abortion) to bring out intolerance and hate among so called liberals.

Too funny!
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Washington, Jefferson, and others who were the founding fathers, owned slaves and wrote a constitution that didn't count them or women as citizens able to vote... how come all the haters who have shown up on this thread are not hating on them???
crunch

Social climber
CO
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
I suppose that the US flag is in the same class as the confederate flag in the eyes of many people in SE Asia, and other parts of the world.. we were invaders, baby killers, destroyers of homes and villages, killers of innocent people. It is instructive to look at the flag thing... any flag really.. (as the victors write the history in the context of their ideals).. in the eyes of the solders who actually fought in the wars under the various banners.

To the fighting solder war is not about the grand themes of the conflict, but about the brotherhood of those in battle with them. Soldiers don't fight for political reasons. They fight to stay alive and to keep their brothers in arms alive. No matter the politics. If one looks at the qualities of hard fighting soldiers, no matter the side they fight on, one can't but admire the qualities of courage, sacrifice, selflessness, determination and the willingness to die to save one's friends, under the most horrible of circumstances. I admire great soldiers, and fighting men in general, no matter on what side they fought. I am a graduate of the Virginia Military Institute, the institution which produced many of the commanders of the Southern Armies. Stonewall Jackson was an instructor there before he served and died in the service of his country. It is easy to look at such people from our present enlightenment. However, that is not an accurate view.

People should be viewed as they were in their own time.

Disagree. As time moves on, this becomes near impossible. When wars end it is the duty of the survivors to try to make sense of what happened, to learn and move on, hopefully prevent more bloodshed.

As Longfellow said in the "Charge of the Light Brigade", "ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die".

These lines illustrate just how reputations change (or how reputations are deliberately twisted to serve new purposes). You have the wrong poet, and the words are not quite right. They were written during the Crimea War and much celebrated at the time in the UK, during the height of Victorian pride and power. Which of course, led to hubris and the fighting of a war, a few decades later, fought with staggeringly cruel incompetence by the privileged, wealthy, upper-class officer classes of Europe.

After the First Word War war, the sentiments behind Tennyson's poem--and his entire reputation, really--were trashed. After that war, it became very clear that the surviving solders of Germany, France, Britain, America etc--who had fought with extraordinary bravery in horrific conditions--had far more in common with each other than they ever could have with the generals and aristocrats (and war-glorifying poets).

Which is true of all wars.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
No Hater here. I don't have a fully formed opinion on that version of confederate heraldry.

I don't emotionally connect it to slavery. I emotionally connect it to the Dukes of Hazard. A show I loved as a kid and to this day find better than most. As a once dirtbag climber I can relate a bit to that theme song.

Just'a good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm.
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was born

Staightnin' the curves
Flatnin the hills
Someday the mountain might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law will allow.

But I hate racism and the evils of slavery. If for a truly large number of people it is a symbol of racism. If some people use it to flaunt their racist views. That changes things a great deal.

What good there might actually be in the history of that symbol may be destroyed by those who use it to bully.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Nov 9, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
Did somebody say "CONFEDERATE??

http://confederate.com/x132_hellcat_combat









AMERICAN V-TWIN POWER!
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
A flag simply is. It only has the power and meaning you ascribe to it.

It is like when the world was flat....then it was round
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Once upon a time,, a pirate flag was known for slavery, thievery murder and mayhem. Now days Climbers fly them proudly from El Cap.

Meanwhile some gangs frequently use the RAIDER symbol from the NFL league.



edit: Question to Burchey,, since you obviously see enough of these to become upset, you must have engaged your OP threat no? And,, how was that trip to the hospital? guffaw..
Anastasia

climber
Home
Nov 9, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
That is way too extreme!!!

Since I do spend time in the South let me just say this...

Confederate flag isn't a white power symbol. Not for many that do hang it up.

It's Southern Pride and about the South being "a different place." Different meaning the rules of Southern hospitality, how neighbors stick together and a suspicion of the law since it had a habit of being corrupt. It is why the T.V. show, The Dukes of Hazard had it on the General Lee (their car.) It's about black peas and grits, girls in jean shorts and drinking ice tea/moonshine in the shade.

Maybe that is the romanticizing of it... That is true... Yet it is what it is... I don't immediately think of White Power when I see a Confederate Flag. Now when I see a Nazi flag, now that sickens me deeply. Now that disgust me. Confederate... Well, remember... President Lincoln didn't emancipate the slaves until late in the war. So... It wasn't purely about slavery, it was about money and power. Plantations against the industrial states and who will have the overall say about how things are run. The war against slavery is also a bit romanticized, idealist, and not accurate.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
i go to look up "guys with black eyes" as i was going to post a joke Burcheys way..~~~~~~~There were more images of guys in EYE liner and eye makeup than actual "black eyes" as i would think of them, which were actually RARE in the google images... cheezus- freekin- rice....NO WAY IN H*LL i was gonna search "facial hematoma"....
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Ron said
About 90% of the southern soldiers NEVER OWNED A SLAVE in their lifes.

Hey look I never actually owned a person I just killed other people to preserve the right to own people, ok? Don't act like I'm the bad guy.


Ron continued
Silver lining is: From that war came the largest stride in human rights ever.

It's true! Freed slaves were immediately given the right to vote, live where they liked and receive equal treatment from their police and government.

Ron invented
Many "groups" called for the Washington Redskins to change their name recently. Even though the vast majority of local Indians seemed totally un-bothered by that. Even thinking its a bit of an Honor. Me thinks this PC crap is yet another avenue to keep the fires of prejudice alive and well.

Hmmmm yes there's nothing people like more than having a sports team named a racial epithet used to dehumanize them. That's why I have a special place in my heart for the Harlem Honkies and their amazing mascot, Giant Head of Mitt Romney. I especially like the way they dress him in pleated pants and do that rhythmless, jerky dance to '"Play That Funky Music" at halftime. It just makes me feel like I'm a part of the game! Of course those jerks from the PC police keep the flames of prejudice alive and well by questioning whether or not this is just playing to a racial stereotype but we all know it's just that they're mad that white people suck at basketball.
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
Anyone who thinks the civil war was about freeing black people from slavery is naive. That just isn't the way the world works, and especially isnt how america works
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
you guys do realize that burchy the one man army against racism is gone leaving you all to tear at each other to his eternal delight.

i am positive he could easily find some skinheads to take retribution on...i don't think he tried very hard.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
and all the sh#t that people have come up with as racial slurs against white people has never bothered me in the least... honky what the hell is that anyway?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
Do you know who we (USA) bought many slaves from? NATIVE AFRICANS
Point is- at that time most countries and cultures participated and it was a tribal thing not racial. The confederate flag is not a symbol of racism. I am sorry you aren't able to comprehend that. I hope your ignorant views do not permeate the rest of society.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
Christ, what a bunch of idiots....

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
Dirtbag- It is hard to argue with facts
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
The argument that the confederate flag symbolizes something other than racism is circular, because the supposedly non-racist reasons offered up, i.e., the "culture" or "heritage" it signifies, are themselves racist.

Saying slavery was not the root of the civil war is profoundly ignorant.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
Do you know who we (USA) bought many slaves from? NATIVE AFRICANS


It's true! White Americans didn't WANT slaves but they were forced upon them by Africans and then they came back to America with them and we're like "well crap what are we going to do with all this excess of human suffering I guess we'll grow stuff."
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Do you realize that slavery is illegal in most countries, including the USA? Because a facet of our (that includes you) history involved slaves, we can't fly a flag that has differing connotations from your ignorant opinion?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Were any of those countries established by seceding from other countries because they wanted to keep slavery legal?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
High Desert DJ- are you confused that Africans sell Africans? It is still happening for your information.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
And Americans are selling Americans. You seem to be confusing knowing a fact and having a sense of morality.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Slavery is illegal in America. What is your point that people are still enslaved here?

"Although this exploitation is often not called slavery, the conditions are the same. People are sold like objects, forced to work for little or no pay and are at the mercy of their "employers"."

— Antislavery Society, What is Modern Slavery in Africa
Chugach

Trad climber
Vermont
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 8, 2013 - 09:13am PT
I've done a lot of reading on it, and seen several movies on American Slavery - last night I watched 12 Years a Slave. It was very difficult to watch. I think it's good to be reminded how terrible we can be as human beings, to each other. I can't even imagine doing those things to another person, or being on the receiving end. Even so, it was a way of life for a very long time, and slavery in some forms continues today in different parts of the world. I'm amazed what we allow to pass as remembering "heritage"...whatever the f*ck that means.


Oh grow up. You saw a movie and now you need to threaten violence on Supertopo? It's a symbol. Are you going to beat up a Tibetian Monk because they often wear the Swastika, an old sandskit symbol? Gonna burn a church because of their past sins? Dousche bag.

Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
I cannot post any links because I am on my phone and don't know how to do it... but if you google the meaning of the Confederate flag you might find it pretty interesting... one in particular called trainweb .org
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 9, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
Confederate flags are an important symbol. In this day and age, they give fair warning to stay away from the racist, backwoods, dipshet fuk who waves it, thus strengthening the gene pool by avoiding the high risk of congenital retardation.
jstan

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
Ron said
About 90% of the southern soldiers NEVER OWNED A SLAVE in their lifes.

They never did own a slave in their lives.

Simply by letting someone convince them they were absolutely and totally RIGHT about an artificial issue (state's rights), they sacrificed lives, arms, and legs in an attempt to insure corporations ( plantation owners) they would not lose an investment of ten billion or so. And lost ten times or so as much in the effort.

In today's america this tactic is called, "externalization". Get someone else to pay your bills.

Sound familiar?

Anyone who feels they are right, absolutely right and without a doubt, has taken up residence in La La land.

The killer is that in the Jim Crow economy that followed plantation owners had the opportunity to pay less for labor than they did when they actually owned the slaves. When one died from starvation there was no capital loss. Just the need to go get another one.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
It is interesting that no one can make a response to my comments! Do you have no rebuttal to my facts?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
NORTON "of course you can", fly the flag

Then why are you upset?
Chugach

Trad climber
Vermont
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Deekaid -
Nov 9, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
and all the sh#t that people have come up with as racial slurs against white people has never bothered me in the least... honky what the hell is that anyway?


White folks roll into the hood to buy drugs or sex and honk to get the sellers off their porch. That's what I always heard.

jstan

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
I post this so that we might get onto a subject that we all can treat entirely unemotionally.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
JStan How about the north ridge on the Grand Teton, it has been a few years. I hope they better snow this winter. It was sketchy on the upper two pitches last time i made a go at it.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Slavery is alive and well in our modern globe.

Slavery abolished in America or any other nation state ? That question is best answered by the Ho's.

Pimpin' is hard rapped the piece of sh#t gangster who managed to rhyme rhythmically and elevate his BS to being "Art". (the tunes are catchy though...)

Canada has a "Guest Worker" program that allows donut and hamburger franchisees to import people from around the word for 6 months of servitude and then, back you go ! Guess what ? No complaining !

Strippers, Prostitutes, dishwashers, gardeners, construction workers, farm hands in the Fraser Valley, (who are free from the government jackboot concerning decent living and working conditions because they are contractors without a contract)Nannies pushing strollers.

The list goes on but the one constant is the economic model of getting something for nothing.

Americans are comical in believing the hero Abraham Lincoln was the last example needed concerning vanquishing domestic slavery.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
What I said is true.

And for all the wrong reasons. Don't let reality deter you... keep spraying your deliberate misinformation far and wide.

jstan

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
I do believe this thread may now start to get traction.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
Any advice on the last couple pitches on the north ridge of the Grand? I never found any anchor points except for a weighted chicken-head over slabs and warm snow!

If I flew the stars and bars would you help or ignore?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Just worry about inconveniences while mountain climbing Q-Ball and your Irony will shower us all with enlightenment.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
Anyone who thinks the civil war was about freeing black people from slavery is naive. That just isn't the way the world works, and especially isnt how america works

x30

Of course that's what we learned in "school", and few people have the capacity for critical thinking. Instead they want to send people to hospitals for flying a flag. Which is why the real enemies of this country will never be removed.

Same as it ever was...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
I wonder if those flying this antiquated flag of a defunct and foreign nation would object to the Mexican flag. Not only is that flag still viable, they too held a large portion of this nation. Their culture and heritage is interwoven with ours. Viva Mexico!

I wonder what the difference between a Union Jack on a Mini Cooper and a Mexican flag on a low rider might be?
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
I'm down in Alabama. I grew up with the confedeate flag. I never associated it with racism, but I am very aware that that is what it became. That pisses me off because to me it represented the right to fight for the right to be southern. If I have to explain that you will never understand.

I had a grandfather in the clan. I never agreed with him.

I never saw overt racisim until I visited Boston in 1979. Then I saw white people heckling a black man. I was appaled that that could happen in america.

Maybee that is why it took me so long to realize the flag stood for racisim to so many people. I quit displaying it when I found out. It was never a legal flag anyway.

Thanks for letting me vent my southern spleen.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
In short, everyone is entitled to an opinion (silly constitution stuff). But why are many adamant at my right to free speech. Just as you are proud to be from California, I am proud to be from the Southern US. I am sorry that bothers you. My White, Black, and Native American friends are not butt hurt by a flag that does not affect them.

We all have equality to live and pursue our life. THE CIVIL WAR IS OVER!
Matt Thomsen

Big Wall climber
Places
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
To all the haters... Come to the dirty south and check it out in person. You will meet some of the nices people you will find anywhere, and they may be flying the flag. They are proud people, and the rebel flag is a symbol of the south. As a northern moving to the south, it took me awhile to get use to it. I even had arguments with friends about how wrong ithe flag was, but I slowly learned that it NOW, has nothing (with a few exceptions) to do with hate.

So don't live in the past. Let's move on. I don't think any body on this site has ever owned a slave, and I don't think anybody thinks it was right.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:38pm PT

x30

Of course that's what we learned in "school", and few people have the capacity for critical thinking. Instead they want to send people to hospitals for flying a flag. Which is why the real enemies of this country will never be removed.

Same as it ever was...

Another stupid, neo-confederate fook..


Jeezus christ, learn some history. It started because places like South Carolina were scared shitless that Lincoln would free their slaves (even though he did NOT support such a thing when initially in office). So rather than wait until what they believed would be inevitible emancipation, they bailed.

And yes, that stoopid loser flag has a very dubious history. Most present-day waivers are simply ignorant rednecks who probably don't give it much thought, not worth an ass-kicking . But it was revived as a symbol in the south in the 60s to protest what they viewed as renewed federal encroachment on what they believed was their God-given right to lynch niggers.

It's a stupid, ignorant, divisive symbol. I'd like to piss on every one in existence.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
the talking part is done
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
Dirtbag- I feel sorry you feel so hopeless and incomplete. I hope that you will someday find peace and happiness living in the most fortunate land ever!
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Dirtbag- I feel sorry you feel so hopeless and incomplete. I hope that you will someday find peace and happiness living in the most fortunate land ever!

Yes Q-idiot, I am happy to live in the most fortunate land ever, the land that stomped the sh#t out of the Confederacy.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Dirtbag; are you mad that we are still the same country. If you feel the south is so bad, why try and keep it?
dirtbag

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
Hey Q-uidiot, where have I dissed the south?

Show me.

All I have done is dissed that stupid, backwards ass confederate flag.
Nemesis

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:04pm PT


Okay big mouth, show me what you've got!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Norton,, in 2013,,,this flag stands for independence and pride in the South. And they have just as much reason for pride as any other state in the union. I know many southerners and they are absolutely awesome folks.

If you want to be stuck in the 1800s i guess thats up to you. Next time you see a biker on the road sporting a rebel decal,, be sure to pull up next to him and give him yur mind..
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Dirtbag- I never intended any kick on the face. Sorry for the misunderstanding. How has the Confederate flag hurt anyone? Simple question.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
Why does the color of ones skin move you? I only see capability for the job.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Simple, I don't see color. Why do you factor that in?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
ElcapPics said

Posting nearly anything on the taco seems to bring out the haters and name callers... another reason that I don't often post here... it is impossible to have a civil discussion between people with different positions on ANY issue. Over simplification and slander is mostly what we get here.... sad really..."What we have here is a failure to communicate"!

No doubt. And that is unfortunate since this is a meaty and complex subject. I liked your post about it. I can also understand those who feel it is a racist symbol. The history and different perspectives are fascinating. Possibly even important.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
rsin=rokjox?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 9, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
R-sin , Are you angry about America? Or is it Black people that make you mad? Do you wish we all were the same color? I love everyone and get confused why people care about skin color.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 9, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
this flag stands for independence and pride in the South.

Independence? Are you sure? Cuz it doesn't seem like they really won their independence... or anything really. How can you celebrate something you never had? Seems to me they just got a bunch of innocent poor people killed in an attempt to maintain a privileged lifestyle for a few... a lifestyle made possible ONLY through the labor of slaves. It was a failed rebellion, a failed attempt to maintain inequality, a failed attempt to continue living off the sweat of others. It is sad that so many continue to defend and broadcast the echos of their tantrum.

Nah, probably way more idealistic and pure... something to do with the founding father's vision... blah blah blah... [insert]patriotic hard-on jizz-fest.[/insert]
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:05am PT

R-sin , Are you angry about America? Or is it Black people that make you mad? Do you wish we all were the same color? I love everyone and get confused why people care about skin color What is your beef?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 02:38am PT
The red, white, and blue stands for pride in the south and everywhere else in this nation, thanks.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 10, 2013 - 04:01am PT
Lynyrd Skynyrd and Nascar forever,

now chew tobaca chew tobaca chew tobaca....spit!

ricky bobby, pass the ice tea and chicken wings,

honey, can you get jimmy bob jr out of the tire swing,

dang, i feel like makin some sheeple,
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:23am PT
Q-Ball queried
Slavery is illegal in America. What is your point that people are still enslaved here?


Here let me Google that for you since I know how hard it is to find information in the 21st century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United_States

Human trafficking is the modern form of slavery, with illegal smuggling and trading of people, for forced labour or sexual exploitation.

In the U.S., human trafficking tends to occur around international travel-hubs with large immigrant populations, notably California and Texas. The U.S. Justice Department estimates that 17,500 people are trafficked into the country every year, but the true figure could be higher, because of the large numbers of undocumented immigrants. About 300,000 children are believed to be currently at risk from sexual exploitation.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/human_trafficking
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/03/super-bowl-sex-trafficking_n_2607871.html


But please, get back to your original point about how Africans selling other Africans into slavery makes flying the Confederate flag a totally not racially insensitive thing to do.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:36am PT
Because in the part of the United States still governed by the US Constitution it took a Constitutional amendment, The Emancipation Proclamation committed the north to abolishing slavery but did not actually abolish it in and of itself.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 10, 2013 - 06:43am PT
The OP might want to read a few books rather than getting their history from movies...

That being said I am Damn Yankee and don't have much use fer them secessionists;)
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 10, 2013 - 06:56am PT
Likewise Tradman.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:42am PT
Here is the authentic MODERN Confederate thought process from a real Southern Reb....

http://vimeo.com/17126975
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:27am PT
"That being said I am Damn Yankee and don't have much use fer them secessionists;)"

http://www.ditext.com/dilorenzo/yankee.html

The link above says y'all started it!
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Is the anti-South, anti-Confederate flag bigotry shown in this thread really that different from the racism of past generations?

Burchy started out talking about a free trip to the hospital and knocking out teeth. Many of like-minded posters have shown similar intolerance and hostility to those with different perspectives. And like many racists, they feel completely justified in their position.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:58am PT


You all know that Burch is sittin' back laughing at you guys all screeching at each other! LOL

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:10am PT
Is the anti-South, anti-Confederate flag bigotry shown in this thread really that different from the racism of past generations?

You have got to be fuking kidding me? You really are THAT stupid, aren't you? Because the flag you CHOOSE to put on the back of your truck is really just like the color of skin you CHOOSE to be born with... and enslaved because of.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Viva Mexico! The real south!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:15am PT
Viva la Raza!
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:17am PT
You have got to be fuking kidding me? You really are THAT stupid, aren't you? Because the flag you CHOOSE to put on the back of your truck is really just like the color of skin you CHOOSE to be born with... and enslaved because of.

And the hits just keep on coming!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:22am PT
sketch rivals skipt as the dumbest mother fuker ever to walk the planet.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:23am PT


Nov 10, 2013 - 07:54am PT
Is the anti-South, anti-Confederate flag bigotry shown in this thread really that different from the racism of past generations?


Are you serious.?

Oh yeah..... It's sketchy. One can never tell.

Anyway sketch, could the same question be asked about neo nazis and their swastikas?

I don,t doubt for a second that southerner s have much to be proud of as much as anybody, but I,d say the confederate flag and and what it stands for is a pretty stupid symbol to chose to represent your values..... Unless your values suck
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 10, 2013 - 11:30am PT
He has waged cruel War against human Nature itself, violating its most sacred Rights of Life and Liberty in the Persons of a distant People who never offended him, captivating and carrying them into Slavery in another Hemisphere, or to incur miserable Death, in their Transportation thither. This piratical Warfare, the opprobrium of infidel Powers, is the Warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain.

He has prostituted his Negative for Suppressing every legislative Attempt to prohibit or to restrain an execrable Commerce, determined to keep open a Market where Men should be bought and sold, and that this assemblage of Horrors might want no Fact of distinguished Die.

He is now exciting those very People to rise in Arms among us, and to purchase their Liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the People upon whom he also obtruded them: thus paying off, former Crimes committed against the Liberties of one People, with Crimes which he urges them to commit against the Lives of another.

Jefferson included this paragraph in the draft of the Declaration of Independence. It made it through committee and was included in the draft presented for vote.

The entire paragraph was removed at the insistence of Southern delegates who saw it as setting a dangerous legal precedent for freeing the slaves.
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Sketch! You're right- I guess I am as f*#ked up as a few other posters in getting my facts right. It isn't South Carolina's flag, it is Mississippi's
I think about 10 years ago there was some hoopla about questioning integrating the confederate/rebel design into the state flag. From Wyoming- the south looks pretty much the same-I remembered it wrong. At that time, I ran across a seated liberty dime from 1863, so I looked up the events of that year and came across the death toll in the battles fought then. It blew my mind- the numbers (Vietnam-50K, Korea-50K Gettysburg-53K in 3 days!!) so I concluded then that the north won the war- TAKE IT DOWN. Sketch- glad you didn't nail me on 28K and 23K not adding up to 53K-I did round the numbers down.
Thanks for the correction- there is already too much BS in the world. I don't need to add to it.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Randisi challenged
Please cite the section where it commits the north to abolition.


Some 4 million slaves were freed in the Confederate states alone by the time the war was over. Do you honestly think that making a moral argument for full commitment to defeating the Confederacy and then allowing slavery to continue in the northern states was an option?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Countries involved in the old slave trades: Mexico, Britain , Spain, Portugal, USA, Nigeria, other African countries as well as other European countries.. Most active these days in the Slave trade is MEXICO...The cartels use them for picking poppys, making coke, meth and other drugs as well as sex trafficking. This isnt from the long past but is going on today. So for some of you screeching LaRaza, you just gave a thumbs up to modern slavery.. Gonna hate on the Mexican flag now??

Out of ALL the Slaves distributed around the world in colonial times,, the USA got ONLY 4.4% of all slave traffic..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
So for some of you screeching LaRaza, you just gave a thumbs up to modern slavery..

You are as ignorant as they come. You know NOTHING of La Raza.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 10, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
Bet 5K i know a shyt load more than YOU wessie..


And Nigeria is still #1 in the SLAVE selling in 2013.


And research how Afro-Mexicans are treated TODAY in Mexico - places like Veracruz or Yanga.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
You don't know sh#t. Viva la Raza!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Ron declared
Out of ALL the Slaves distributed around the world in colonial times,, the USA got ONLY 4.4% of all slave traffic..

Based on what time period and what are you sourcing here? Slavery has existed since well before biblical times. Slavery still exists. So 4.4% of all slave ownership of all time was in the US? In the 17th to 19th centuries? Of Africans only? What the hell is that number?

Let's assume that the number is something approaching a real number just for argument. In 1860 the US population was 31.4 million but 3.9 million were slaves. That leaves 27.5 million "free" people. The global population is estimated to be 1.27 billion people in 1860 so the US, minus the slaves, represented 2.17% of global population. So basically you're saying that the US was twice as active in slave ownership as the global mean.

Now of course all this number crunching is specious because all this "Africans sold slaves" and "the US was only 4.4% of global slave trade" adds up to a bunch of slavery apologist insanity because you guys don't dare actually admit to the United States having done some Bad Things That Deserve Criticism unless it's something horrific like try to make sure that its citizens can get affordable healthcare.

tl;dr stop trying to excuse American slavery.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 10, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
Anybody mention "white slavery"?

It is redundant, since the word slave comes from the Slavs, eastern european caucasian people who were captured by moslem raiders from the Ottoman Empire.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
The Moslem slave trade depopulated the Mediterranean coasts of Spain France and Italy for more than 400 years with slave raiding parties extending all the way to Iceland and Norway.

Somewhere between one and two million Europeans ended up as slaves. The Arabs had no use for field hands and females ended up as concubines or household help, males castrated (with about a 90% fatality rate)or condemned to the salt mines.

It didn't stop until the Marines went to Tripoli.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
Viva la raza! Mexico shall rise again!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
When was it ever "up"?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Queso fresco?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 10, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
As long as it wasn't made in someone's bathtub.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 10, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
Mexico started importing tallow and lard in the 1870's as soon as it was inexpensively available.

not much of a "healthy" diet.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
FACT: Frijoles negros y arroz, cabron!

Viva la raza!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Nov 10, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
So let me see if I get this right according to some of the big brains on here...

All those flying a confederate flags are probably pro-slavery and at the very least are practicing racists.

Ergo, said flag owners should be beaten/hospitalized.

Those sure are some deep thoughts.

I wonder if the Lakota in SD enjoy seeing a certain other flag everywhere around their home.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Estupido!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
If you want to be stuck in the 1800s i guess thats up to you.

well the last dire doom and gloom predictions said the arctic would b nothing but sand sun and beaches this year.. THIS YEAR.

Now they have rolled it forward to 2040.. Yet more out of their hineys guesstimates from models they FULLY ADMIT dont work..


One need only visit the climate change thread to see, indeed, Ron Anderson is playing catch-up from 200 years of science.



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
Viva la Raza, con cervezas por favor!

donchu know nothin? Civilization in North America didn't start until "civilized" Europeans got here. duh.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Hey GeeeDavis,, have you always been such a yapping lil leg humper?
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Nov 10, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Probably the most interesting part of this whole thing, is that none of us can really understand what happened back then (unless the one black rock climber is lurking).

probably true about the not understanding; but i don't know how a present day black rock climber could make the subject more comprehensible.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:18am PT
You've got that wrong fear.

They are mostly ignorant asses or blithering idiots, too dishonest to know what they're doing.

Fixed it for you.

It's always amusing to see someone showing his own smarts, while attacking another's intelligence.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 09:30am PT
so they spared no welfare on your education...

funny how grammar nazi's are so proud of themselves for dodging
you must have alot of ribbons and boes

Whoosh!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 11, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Burchey burchey burchey.. Your just one tough mudda eh..Telling old men the what for-- whilst removing every confederate flag in the country..

But,, without PICS ,,this thread is worthless. I want to see PROOF of your "good doings".. Got stars and bars do ya? Huh??? No!?? Wha???
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 11, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
#3 Santanas next to Nomads has some pretty good food.

Damn straight.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
I don't understand what you redneck defenders of slavery have against this one, especially on vet's day:




You can't really advocate flying the confederate flag without at least implicitly renouncing ol'glory... unless you are a fuking moran... oh, I see... carry on.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
I did a little research into the so called "confederate flag" and the topic of what motivated the southern soldiers to join the fight. There is a lot of information out there thus it was a pretty easy topic to research and those you interested in a less emotional treatment, than that displayed on ST, might take a moment to read what the West Virginia Historical Society had to say on the matter... surely better than all the slander and hate being spread back and forth so casually on this thread. It is of historical and not modern context. Don't dismay... it only takes a couple of minutes to read.

http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvhs1404.html
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Nice Link Tom! Hopefully some here will read it..
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Much of this is based on ignorance. The girl with the Swastica tramp stamp almost certainly would feel differently if you took her back to Auswitz in a time machine and she got to talk to mothers and daughters as they were being fed into furnaces by big slavering Krauts with square jaws, clipboards and direct orders from the High Command.

Luckily, with a little compassion and understanding show them, many people can change, but not be being beaten down further. Most people championing an outlaw approach to life are so marginalized they have little more to hold onto than their resistance. Of course some of them are just plain bad sauce, but probably fewer than we might think.

But sh#t can get ugly out there, and little is uglier than racism and Confederate pride, avatars of American stupidity and backwardness, whereby ignorance and spiritual bankruptcy are held as virtues. Truly a Demonic inversion of reality.

JL
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
"Spiritual bankruptcy are held as virtues "



That SHOULD BE a lyric in a kick ass song.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Hey, el cap pics,

Thanks for your posts. I appreciate the thought and the reasonable tone.

Agree fully that most of the soldiers who were sent to kill each other had good intentions, on both sides.

The Confederate Flag?

More background info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

Wikipedia claims that the classic, modern Confederate flag was not used much during the war years, except in battle. And limited usage for a long time after.

Wikipedia states it reappeared, in a big way, in 1956, and became used (or misused?) as a potent symbol representing the fight against desegregation in public schools. And, in the years to come, against the entire Civil Rights movement.

That was perhaps a turning point; what was once (and still is, in many minds) a more innocent, generic symbol of defiance against yankee (or any other) imperialism and over-reach became, in many other minds, a symbol associated with racism and segregation.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
"coal dust is good for you"

Well, sh#t-damn! If that's the case I'm going to start freebasing gasoline, since it is a more refined product anyhows.


"increase in girls wearing shoes corresponds with rise in birth defects"

That's why I keep all of mine barefoot.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 11, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Viva el Largo!
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 11, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
How has the Confederate flag hurt anyone?

Hmmm...

The first Klan was founded in 1865 in Pulaski, Tennessee, by six veterans of the Confederate Army.

Founded of course, to promote freedom and southern hospitality.


Nope, can't see how anyone would equate the Confederate flag with any sort of harm.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Asheville, NC, is a slice of heaven and can out-Berkeley most places.
There's so many Russians there they've three grocery stores!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Largo posted
Luckily, with a little compassion and understanding show them, many people can change, but not be being beaten down further. Most people championing an outlaw approach to life are so marginalized they have little more to hold onto than their resistance. Of course some of them are just plain bad sauce, but probably fewer than we might think.

Listen people, ok? This man knows a little something about cutting black some slack.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
I had a mohawk and wore a jacket with an anarchy symbol on it when I was 13. I had no idea what those symbols conveyed to others... it was just associated with the scene that got me amped up to sk8 (D.O.A., T.S.O.L., D.K., half-pipes, skirts, and road rash).

Once I learned what that big A stood for and I couldn't change the meaning of it just by wishful thinking, I disassociated myself from it. I find it really sad that some of you "adults" are dumber than I was at 13 and insist on trying to twist the clear meaning behind the symbols you promote.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Nov 11, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Clearly a lot of strong opinions on the subject. I don't have much respect for the stars and bars, but fall short of thinking that assault is going to solve anything. I don't care who you are, there is always someone bigger and meaner, and just punching someone out does nothing to promote the validity of your argument.

The real reason I'm posting is to share a link to a story I heard on Snap Judgement the other day. Daryl Davis is a black piano player, and his story of befriending and changing klansmen is just flat out stunning. It's worth taking the 20 minutes to listen to his powerful story. It's on this page, the story called "silver dollar lounge" http://snapjudgment.org/unrequited
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
Off White, nice story.

The first part reminds me of my ultra-white, racists aunt... I was playing Bob Marley, "I Shot the Sheriff."

She said... "this is interesting, but I like the original version better."

"Original version?"

"Ya, Eric Clapton's original."

She refused to believe a black man was the author of a song she liked. I gave up after 5 min.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Sounds like your aunt mistakenly thought the more popular, more well-known version was the original.

How does that reflect poorly on her?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
.because Wes spent five minutes telling her otherwise and she still could not get it?

Oh?

Okay.

I missed where he explained that part of the story.

My mistake.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Sketch.

Dumbest man alive?

Or all-time best troll of all-time?

Care to have an honest discussion?

Or are you just interested in whining about how a Civil War era film makes you so mad that you have to start thread on it, complete with itg threats?

Maybe you just need a good cry.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Inconclusive evidence to make a decision on the Dumb/Troll thing.

No interest in an honest discussion?

What are you afraid of?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
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GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Actually Sketch you didn't miss the 5 min conversation with the Aunt, as that was added after first posted. It is challenging to follow conversations when an individual edits their post without notation. Common for the Drchrist/Mechrist/Weschrist persona.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Some of you probably think the word COONASS is racist too...
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Or niggardly.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:23pm PT

Some of you probably think the word COONASS is racist too...


Sometimes slander is just easier. RACIST!!!!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
I know me sumder coonass downlong da Turner bayou-mannnndo dey cook em crawfeesh witda spicies mannnnnnn be sum good stff mannnn i tell you..Sooooohot yu be breakin a sweat notime mannoooomann..


Yes,, i speak coonass. Great folk actually. Even if they do consider nutria a meal..
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Ron said
Some of you probably think the word COONASS is racist too...


Words aren't racist. People that try to make excuses for American slavery are.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Actually Sketch you didn't miss the 5 min conversation with the Aunt, as that was added after first posted. It is challenging to follow conversations when an individual edits their post without notation. Common for the Drchrist/Mechrist/Weschrist persona.

Thanks for the clarification.

I wouldn't expect mechrist to offer that information.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro? An argument is never convincing that relies of such tactics. None of you, including the original poster of the thread, who have resorted to such tactics, have convinced anyone, except yourselves.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 06:59pm PT
Words aren't racist. People that try to make excuses for American slavery are.

No, you just want to find racism everywhere! You cannot debate conservatism without calling people racists! That is your only card. Welcome to Jesse and Al Sharpton's playbook.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT

I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro? An argument is never convincing that relies of such tactics. None of you, including the original poster of the thread, who have resorted to such tactics, have convinced anyone, except yourselves.


Put down the Malt Bevs, brah, Largo is not involved here. But maybe he should be...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
No, you just want to find racism everywhere! You cannot debate conservatism without calling people racists! That is your only card. Welcome to Jesse and Al Sharpton's playbook.


It's true! I've called you a racist in literally every post I've ever posted on this site! Especially in the ones where you're a huge racist. Funny thing about apologizing for slavery is you'll get called a racist a lot. I know it's hard but you have to stand by your convictions, bluering. Even if you're persecuted. Just keep your head up and some day, down the road, you'll be hailed as true believer by some other people who also think it's ok that America enslaved people.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Here is a link with a photo and explanation .... the first national flag of the confederacy... it only takes 5 seconds to see it... don't be so lazy!! It is an interesting read too... lots of flags were involved... seems it was not an easy deal at all.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/1national.htm

Go back a couple of pages Bluering... that is Largo posting ... no?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
Sounds like your aunt mistakenly thought the more popular, more well-known version was the original.

Wow, your experience with the real world is THAT small and narrow, isn't it?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
The real reason I'm posting is to share a link to a story I heard on Snap Judgement the other day. Daryl Davis is a black piano player, and his story of befriending and changing klansmen is just flat out stunning. It's worth taking the 20 minutes to listen to his powerful story. It's on this page, the story called "silver dollar lounge" http://snapjudgment.org/unrequited

Great story. I wonder how many people listened to Darrell Davis's story. It's interesting to contrast his approach, dealing with card carrying klansmen, to the inflammatory rhetoric of this thread.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
good point Bruch3y (whoever you are in reality) but you left out one group in your listing above... People who think that violence is the way to settle differences.. like wife beaters, bullies, dictatorships, military oriented nations who abuse their power, ... you know... "Mealy mouthing punch of pansies"... Very scholarly, surely an effective phrase in making a convincing argument.

I am particularly offended by religious icons, placed on government land, supposedly owned by all citizens, no matter their faith, by those of a particular faith, who feel that they have the right to do so. That said, I don't have the slightest intention of tearing the icons down and beating up a few members of that religious group. We have laws and courts to settle such differences of opinion.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
We use violence as a means to several ends. We go to war. A policeman uses a baton on a criminal that resists arrest. Etc Etc.

Why is it different?..instead of mealy-mouthing like a bunch of pansies, we strike down overt racism as we encounter it. Of course, I know this isn't "legal". That doesn't mean it isn't just.

Sounds a lot like that rationale and tactics of Jim Crow era racists.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
good point Burch3y (whoever you are in reality) but you left out one group in your listing above... People who think that violence is the way to settle differences.. like wife beaters, bullies, dictatorships, military oriented nations who abuse their power, ... you know...

And the Nazis. I think they were big on using violence against those they disliked.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
So Burch3y I gather that violence is ok if used in the manner you wish it to be used. Logic? Law? Where? Fortunately you are in a position, like the rest of us, of having no real power... all you have is your intellect to convince others of your view.... unfortunately you don't have convincing arguments and you resort to unlawful "solutions" and slander. Very convincing indeed.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
EDIT: Sketch, you are rapidly approaching Ron Anderson status - i.e. not worth replying to. Congrats, you must dig deep.

I can see how you'd think Darrell Davis' story is out of your comfort zone.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
If a bigot thought he might get clothes-lined by another restaurant patron, when he told If a bigot thought he might get clothes-lined by another restaurant patron, when he told a young couple and their beautiful mixed daughter that they were disgusting, he might think twice about now.

It's simply an issue of the will of the majority cowering under a smaller hateful minority, unwilling to risk their own safety, or a lawsuit, or whatever to stand up for what is right.

Dude. You've got it wrong. Have you ever seen the TV show "What would you do?" They stage scenarios where a callous as#@&%e is abusing a stranger in a public setting. I've just seen a few segments, but every time bystanders step up and do the right thing. I tend to think it's representative of our society.

Do you have many firsthand experiences with overt racism? Have you witnessed someone telling a young couple and their beautiful mixed daughter that they were disgusting?
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
Bruch3y... you said "we have laws..." So in a society that is ruled by laws we should use those laws. Assault someone, as you suggest, and you will be just another felon sitting in jail.. I just have a hard time trying to label a guy with a confederate battle flag decal on the back window of his truck, as a racist. People have a right to put any sticker on their truck that they want... it is not for you or me to fix any particular motive to it... it is theirs' to own. As we have seen in many of these posts, that flag means different things to different people and to say it has only one meaning and that is the meaning you or I affix to it, will not get anything done.

As you suggest, we have plenty of racism in this country and it has been a long and difficult struggle to convince people that is not a good thing... some will never be convinced, as long as they don't act on it, we have to let it slide. The days of the slavery that some associate with that flag are long gone, and we should accept as fact, when people tell us that it doesn't mean slavery, racism and oppression to them, that they are truthful. Someone posting way above, mentioned the Pirate Flag being a hateful symbol of fear and death and now we think nothing of it and some people proudly call themselves "Pirates". So it goes... maybe in time, probably not in our lifetimes, the flag thing will be just another decal on a truck, as it is to many now. We sure are not going to convince people of anything by threats and name calling... that has only served, in the past, to harden minds and hearts... the exact opposite of what we wish to achieve.
Just another mealy-mouthed post from an old man.

Norton... sickening.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Norton - that's disgusting and sad.

One of them actually said to the waitress "too bad you aren't more white like that half nigger you voted for"? That's just disgusting.

Where were you? I understand if you'd rather not say.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Sometimes, a good ol' fashioned ass kicking isn't the worst.



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
Have you witnessed someone telling a young couple and their beautiful mixed daughter that they were disgusting?

My mom had her father tell her something along the lines of: 'if you ever marry a nigger I'll blow your head off to save your soul.' Yes, he displayed his confederate flag proudly on his truck.

My aunt refused to let her daughter live with her anymore because she got knocked up by a "nigger." 10-years later and they are on okay terms: my aunt loves her grandchildren and 'those people can be nice.'

But hey, what good is a symbol if we can't decide it has whatever meaning we want it to have?
jstan

climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro?
T/E

I have not said some things because, really, there is only so much it is useful to say. Maybe I need to say more. Two or three years ago John dealt with me saying, "You don't have any imagination." Well that's OK. He may be right.

Then we have a couple of years of Largo tying people in knots with arguments that the only thing that is real is what is going on in his brain. Well, OK. That too may be true. But then. But then he passed up a golden chance to settle, for the first time in 4000 years a philosophical question.

IS THERE A REAL WORLD OUT THERE.

Are the emf's in his brain the only reality? He had a chance to settle that millennium old question once and for all. But he gave it a pass. No, he whiffed it. Never considered it.

He could have had his foot amputated rather than drawing in all of 21st century medicine to save it. And if he had declined both anesthesia and pain control he would have known, absolutely, there is something outside of his brain. After it was all over he could tell something real was no longer there. Just by reaching down. There was a confirming test.

The bull sh#t is beyond all belief. And we seem to keep signing up for it.





Now, the real point.

People say one should say exactly what you think. I have done so, just above. But you see what we think is just a millivolt or so of emf's. It really does not amount to much.

What we think is what we think. Nothing more. The question is, do we actually

do something constructive?

That's the tough one.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
Yo John, would it be constructive to post something in such a way that it convinces someone to consider an alternative position, that may, in fact, change their views or actions? Maybe just one person??? Or do we plunge into the muck and fight like reptiles?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Good point. It's not that people have a totally irrational dislike of others based on the color of their skin it's that they haven't heard a good argument against it yet.
jstan

climber
Nov 11, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Yo John, would it be constructive to post something in such a way that it convinces someone to consider an alternative position, that may, in fact, change their views or actions? Maybe just one person??? Or do we plunge into the muck and fight like reptiles?

I am of the opinion public replies are pretty generally non-constructive.

If you want something actually to be considered, use a PM.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 11, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
My mom had her father tell her something along the lines of: 'if you ever marry a nigger I'll blow your head off to save your soul.'

When was this?

I guess I should've clarified that I was asking about recent history... like in the last 5-10 years... not something from 30 or 40 years ago.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:45am PT
Bruch3y hopefully you will swing into action soon and solve the problem by doing some real violence on someone. I can see that there is no need to discuss anything further with you, as you seem to have it all figured out. Perhaps you will get to see some real, modern racism, from the inside of a corrections facility. Let us know how that works for you bro.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Nov 12, 2013 - 02:24am PT
Maybe someday the "stars and bars" will be sort of like the parody that the pirate flag is today. But that time is not now. Rolling with the confederate flag = total racist d#@&%ebag. Argue otherwise but that's just what it means.

Disclaimer: my family (at least the of age men at the time and none of whom owned slaves) ALL fought for the confederate army in some capacity, from conscripts fresh off the boat from Ireland to the army's freaking poet. No one in my modern family would ever consider rolling around with that stupid racist flag.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Nov 12, 2013 - 02:29am PT
And while I'm at it, most southern resentment comes from the slash and burn tactics by the north after the south was defeated + reconstruction. Really no one can complain that the union army suppressed succession, any more than a state or county could seriously gripe about it now.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 05:30am PT
Just another elephant mouth with a hummingbird ass. Spout all you'd like about kicking ass here in California where we could give a sh#t (my mother being black and all). Take your crusade down to Mississipi and eastern Alabama, throw a few punches down there and let us know how it works out for you.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 12, 2013 - 09:37am PT
“I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university.”
― Albert Einstein

Fyodor Dostoyevsky
“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”


Stieg Larsson
“Friendship- my definition- is built on two things. Respect and trust. Both elements have to be there. And it has to be mutual. You can have respect for someone, but if you don't have trust, the friendship will crumble.”

Leo Tolstoy
“Respect was invented to cover the empty place where love should be.”



Winston Churchill
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.”


Steve Maraboli
“How would your life be different if…You stopped making negative judgmental assumptions about people you encounter? Let today be the day…You look for the good in everyone you meet and respect their journey.”

Harper Lee
“As you grow older, you'll see white men cheat black men every day of your life, but let me tell you something and don't you forget it - whenever a white man does that to a black man, no matter who he is, how rich he is, or how fine a family he comes from, he is trash.”


Confucius
“Respect yourself and others will respect you.”



“The truest form of love is how you behave toward someone, not how you feel about them.”
― Steve Hall


Simone Elkeles
“Love is honesty. Love is a mutual respect for one another.”

Wm. Paul Young
“Submission is not about authority and it is not obedience; it is all about relationships of love and respect.”

Theodore Roosevelt
“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior, except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.”


Mahatma Gandhi
“I cannot conceive of a greater loss than the loss of one's self-respect.”

Mary Balogh
“I can be hurt, she said, only by people I respect.”


Hermann Hesse
“It may be important to great thinkers to examine the world, to explain and despise it. But I think it is only important to love the world, not to despise it, not for us to hate each other, but to be able to regard the world and ourselves and all beings with love, admiration and respect.”




Chief Seattle
“The earth does not belong to us. We belong to the earth.”


Immanuel Kant
“Always treat people as ends in themselves, never as means to an end.”


Thomas S. Monson
“When we treat people merely as they are, they will remain as they are. When we treat them as if they were what they should be, they will become what they should be. ”

Steve Maraboli
“How would your life be different if…You approached all relationships with authenticity and honesty? Let today be the day…You dedicate yourself to building relationships on the solid foundation of truth and authenticity.”


Dave Barry
“I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.”


Jarod Kintz
“Respect doesn’t have to be shiny. It just needs to be wearable. Would you be so kind as to hold my jockstrap while I stir your hot coffee?


my favorite:

Duane Allman's personal philosophy of life was very simple and basic. He once said, "Everything's the same everywhere. There are nice folks, and ass-holes, and you have to learn to distinguish between the two in order to get by. And someone who's an ass-hole to somebody may be a nice folk to somebody else, so you've got to learn to be nice to everybody, and show everybody respect, that's the only way people respect you. You've got to have mutual respect and a little bit of love, if you can round it up. And don't be afraid to share what's inside of you with other people. That's the only way you're ever going to get free or have any fun all, either. So just rock on, and have you a good time. If I have a choice between having a good time and a shitty time, I'm going to have me a good time. I've had enough shitty times."
mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Hey Sprock, your account has been hacked. Sorry, I mean, nice post.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:06am PT
I will say it has been interesting at times to weed through this thread. There are some really good posts here if you don't let the other 90% bog you down.

Next time I see that confederate battle flag displayed I will try to take the time to have a conversation with the owner of it. I will be very curious as to why they have it up. I can imagine a whole range of reasons they might do so and will be genuinely interested to see what that person is about.

It is fascinating that that one strikingly colored flag can mean vastly different things to various people. Good and bad.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:07am PT
Nice post, indeed.
Red Swami

climber
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:24am PT
Credit: Red Swami
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:26am PT


Racist gets his DNA results.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 12, 2013 - 10:35am PT
I liked the story Off White posted, but it sure would have been nice to hear/see the conversation between the piano player (unarmed) and the Klansman (with his armed body guard).
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 12, 2013 - 11:07am PT
So what you are saying is that wall street is the largest impact racist group in the world?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 12, 2013 - 11:12am PT
the worest racists are those of you who tell yourself you dont have any animosity against the other BUT at the same time you lock step shoulder to shoulder with institutional traditions and practices which exclude the other from equal representation and fair treatment before the law.

Could you give some current examples of this kind of racism?
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Nov 12, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Rsin- You are mistaken about the definition of racism. While the word does have multiple meanings I've never seen your definition in any dictionary.

One form of racism is displayed in the Zimmerman threads here on ST. Those folks who are posting links in an attempt to paint a race as more criminally inclined than another race are practicing a form of racism.

You don't have to have control or influence over someone to be a racist. Your claim that blacks can't be racist is just silly, I've known several non-white racists. The truth is that every race has its share of racists.

We also have to keep in mind that there are different levels of racism. Not all racists are of the Jim Crow hang'em from the nearest tree type racist.

I think of myself as a bigot against bigots.
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
I don't have a clue what your first two lines mean. You may want to consider taking more time to express your thoughts in more comprehensive manner.

As to your question, Merriam-Webster dictionary among others. Where did you get your definition from? My guess is that you made it up.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
Current drug policy....

"red-lining" by the banking industry....

The Prison-industrial complex....

Zero-Tolerance school disciplinary policy....


Need I go on?

I agree with you on our national drug policy. It's messed up.

Red-lining by banks? When was the last time a bank was found guilty of redlining?

Zero tolerance in schools? You mean whites get a pass, while blacks get suspended? Where is that happening?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
what it means is when confronted with two cases,

one, a white person having to SUFFER a colored person scouling at him
and two, a colored person not getting told there is a house for rent or a job available

you have a case of A hurting feelings verses A criminal descrimination depriving a person with adaquate money or credentials being denied an essential aspect of his right to life based on their color or name


anyone who tells you that whites can suffer from "reverse racism" is not only standing up for criminal practices of discrimination and segergation...

they are telling you that a white person having to learn what a colored person thinks, is equal in terms of damages, to a colored person being denied the oppertunity to purchase what their money or skills or credentials or legal standing affords them in the market when whitey EXCERCISES the power to deny it to them because they dont like what they see...


to call these equal is the revelation of a two faced bigot with a grotesque indiference to real measurable harm

you know, like the christians who didnt think the american practice of slavery was anything but good for the negro

There are different types and levels of racism. You seem to be trying to invalidate most forms of racism, in an effort to elevate one specific kind of racism.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
What a shitty thread.

Racism is for losers, as is violence or threats thereof.

I've been in my share of fights, and there's nothing cool about kicking someone's ass, or conversely, getting your ass kicked. I've been on both ends of the spectrum and it didn't solve anything for me. Honestly, it made things worse.

When I kicked some ass, I felt really terrible afterwards. When I got my ass kicked, I felt pretty terrible as well.

The sudden violence that accompanies fights may appeal to some, but it's no longer a part of my life. I'm man enough now to not instigate sh#t, I voice my opinion and let it go.

Living my life in a respectable manner works for me.
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Thanks for the explanation rSin.

All racism is nasty. Even the milder forms of racism visible in the Zimmerman threads adds to the overall problem. I doubt any of those posters want to actively discriminate against people with dark skin. But nonetheless, due to their racist generalizations, they are helping to perpetuate the problem.

I was first introduced to racism while attending elementary school in Macon Ga during the late sixties. Since then I have seen a lot of positive changes. We still have a long way to go but we're headed in the right direction on equality.

I agree about reverse racism, I never bought into it. A racist is a racist regardless of skin color.

I gotta split, have a good day.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Redlining is the practice of denying, or charging more for, services such as banking, insurance,[2] access to health care,[3] or even supermarkets,[4] or denying jobs to residents in particular, often racially determined,[5] areas.

Bank Accused of Pushing Mortgage Deals on Blacks

Black students face tougher discipline

Across all districts, African-American students are over 3½ times more likely to be suspended or expelled than their white peers. In districts that reported expulsions under zero-tolerance policies, Hispanic and African-American students represent 45% of the student body, but 56% of the students expelled under such policies.

Thanks
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 13, 2013 - 09:33am PT
"there are different types and levels of racism. You seem to be trying to invalidate most forms of racism, in an effort to elevate one specific kind of racism. "

most???

you mean im trying to elevate ACTUAL MEASURABLE HARM done to people over storys about whitey getting his panties in a bunch when someone he looks down on doesnt say "yessa boss!!"

well, i guess if your deal involves silencing colored people and only listening to whitey you might have a point

but its a point you can only have with a bucket over your head

while your singing that LALALAALLALALA hymn the muslim women like whenever your being held to account for actual damages

just like your idiot kids do with their chant of USA USA whenever they need to drown out the truths which dont fit into theyre myopic take on things

which is them thinking their TAKE from the other, is the way god intended

face it,
your just defending the lack of integrity
telling us it should be grandfathered into the ranks of decency

Dayum dude. You're way off the dumbf*#k scale.

You're big on accusations that are based on ..... nothing.

You seem to think "the exercise of power over another group to deny it equal and fair treatment before the law" is the only kind of racism that matters.

That's bullsh#t.

Go read the last three pages of this thread. There are numerous examples of racism that does't meet your definition.

You also seem think my telling you that your definition of racism is limited means I'm talking about reverse racism. You give a bunch of stupid examples that are completely unrelated to anything I've posted. Then, you make it about my children. My daughter's school is 35% African American and 20% Hispanic. The concept of her being better than of them due to her race is completely alien to her. The fact that you drag her into this is a testament to your character.

Earlier in this thread, I commented about certain posters showing the same kind of bigotry common among Jim Crow era racists. By that I meant using sweeping negative stereotypes to condemn individuals, who've done nothing to deserve those condemnations. You're the posterchild for what I was talking about.

Go visit the FBI Hate Crime reports and SPLC. There's a lot more to racism than just your definition.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:06am PT
"Screw the Constitution! It only prevents the government from becoming all powerful!"

"Burning the flag is free speech, but flying a flag is racist!"

"You don't have any rights except those granted by the government!"

"You have no right to protect yourself or your family!"

"If you don't like this, you are a racist!"


Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:14am PT
Ummmm , no bookworm.

If you proudly fly a flag with full knowledge of its symbolic representation of belligerent championing of slavery and segregation by race.... Then you are indeed a racist or at the very least you willfully chose to defend it over the opposite for purposes that only your pathetic twisted little mind can rationalize.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Bookworm f*#k you, you neoconfederate troll. Seriously, fukk you.


I laugh at you. Why? Because your kind is in decline--culturally, demographically and politically. You frustrated, angry little man.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Calling members of the forum "racists" over and over is not insightful.

It is a false charge and no one should listen to it.


Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:27am PT
Bookworm f*#k you, you neoconfederate troll. Seriously, fukk you.


I laugh at you.

Speaking of mixed messages.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Bookworm f*#k you, you neoconfederate troll. Seriously, fukk you.

Yeah, that should bring him around onto the true path. Most eloquently put.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Hermit master - to a degree true, but there is a perfectly valid point in defining the meaning of that stupid funking flag. The reason in retains some vague semblance of respectability has to do with idiotic distortion s of the truth like that spewed by the hookworm. All logical reasoning indicates it is the flag of racism, much like the swastika is. If hooky wants to fly it then so he defines himself.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Reilly you really think these pukes are interested in reason?

No. They're just a bitter bunch of old white men, fearful of a changing world with more brown people, and so they cling to a bitter, hateful, and divisive symbol.


No, they've had 150 years to grow up and embrace modernity, but they still fight it kicking and screaming.

Fook all of them.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Reilly you really think these pukes are interested in reason?

No. They're just a bitter bunch of old white men, fearful of a changing world with more brown people, and so they cling to a bitter, hateful, and divisive symbol.


No, they've had 150 years to grow up and embrace modernity, but they still fight it kicking and screaming.

Fook all of them.

Have you listened to the Darrell Davis story?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Dirt, I just don't like seeing you writhing in the mudpit.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Thanks Reilly--seriously thanks.

Sometimes you just have to call it as it is.

People have been arguing and dying over these issues for years, and yet these knuckle draggers are still here espousing the same backwards-ass bullsh#t.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Racist you say? What do you think about a third world group that plans to repopulate a country with THEIR people only. And perfectly willing to do it against all laws of that country? Does that sound a little RACIST to you?
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:58am PT
http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm


Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Nov 13, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Funny how some of you who are all bent out of shape at the Confederate Flag are the same ones who apparently want to see the "Red States" separate out from your "Blue States."
Hypocrisy much?

Getting bent, one way or the other, about flags and such is a fool's errand, so no surprise to see it getting so much traction on ST.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 13, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Getting bent, one way or the other, about flags and such is a fool's errand

Yep.

DMT
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 13, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
It isn't about what might, on paper, be interpreted.

It's because there are millions of people already who hate and despise it seeing it in their towns.

I agree that the U.S. flag might be inciting anger at some specific areas around the world - but a better analogy would be to use the swastika in a jewish neighborhood. They lost the war and the legacy was that of minorities being treated less than human. The infrastructure behind the two flags has fallen, unlike the stars and stripes which you can find at any international game we are invited to.

Fact. The memory and symbolism of those two flags, to the majority of those affected by their outcomes, aren't so positive.

o-man

Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
Nov 13, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
Back in 1963 after living in Europe for four years my parents and I returned to our family home in Mississippi.( It was during the civil rights period). Pearl, Mississippi was a universe away from Bittborg, West Germany. (It was like being dropped onto another planet!) In Mississippi I experienced racial segregation for the first time in my life. (There were separate drinking fountains, restrooms, schools, church’s,and buses for the black people in the community we lived in.
Once my father was assaulted by the KKK for promoting a black employee to a supervisory position in his company instead of a white man.
As soon as I finished high school I move away and never looked back.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
that was pretty good Mr Davis
i like that link inside a quote technique
MisterE

climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:00am PT
Keep calm and foment hate.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:39am PT
Free trip to Hospital
obamaScare
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:01am PT

Sidenote about bigots:

Just this trip a bigot in particular made many racial slurs, often using freely the word "Nigger"...

Hard as fuk to handle, especially since it was coming from a supposed "Friend" that MUST be aware that my Son in Law is black, and my Grandchildren are mixed...

What the fuk is WRONG with some people???...

John M

climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 02:08am PT
Getting bent, one way or the other, about flags and such is a fool's errand

Yep.

DMT

there are exceptions to this belief.
QITNL

climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:52am PT
Next Confederate Flag I see = Free trip to Hospital

Here's a Confederate Flag:



Unless someone else has already won this contest, kindly send your payment to the Philippines.



Plenty folks there might like a Free trip to Hospital.
WTF

climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 09:13am PT
Locker

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU.

if your not willing to step up and say something then your as big a part of the problem as so called friend who just uses the n word.

Man up you pussy and say something you f*#king cracker.

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 10:04am PT
lots of white people dont know the difference between nigger and nigga,
HUGE difference

What's the difference?

one of the easiest ways to spot a racist is when they say " but but but BLACK people call themselves NIGGER at the time!"

I used to hear that justification back in the last century! Back when a lot of young blacks referred to each other by that term. But everybody wised up. Whites using that excuse figured out it really doesn't matter what blacks say. It's still offensive. And the young blacks found out it was still offensive to many blacks. So they cut it out. Or at least they stopped being so public about it.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 14, 2013 - 10:28am PT
this is OT, but

can someone help me with erectile dysfunction?





































Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 10:50am PT
X marks the spot.

Love that Southern Cross.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 11:56am PT

"WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU.

if your not willing to step up and say something then your as big a part of the problem as so called friend who just uses the n word."
...


Timing...

Wouldn't have been appropriate...

Just because some can be insensitive, I saw no reason to follow in suit...






EDITED:

"as you can tell by a good portion of the posts here, even our fellow climbers often don't get it."...

Yep...






Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 14, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Locker, dontchya just love being told how to walk in another man's shoes?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Doesnt seem like the BURCHEY marched over to his GF's "firm" to bitch them out..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
"Locker, dontchya just love being told how to walk in another man's shoes?"...


If'n ya mix sh!t with sh!t...

ya get more sh!t!!!...



I guess the OP doesn't get that...

My decision was the correct one for the moment...

;-)

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
Locker - That's a copout. When someone says offensive/inappropriate stuff, it's easy to politely ask them to give it a rest. You don't have to make it a huge confrontation.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
cmon Burchwood, go forth to the FIRM and tear em a new one.. Or Hey,, give us the name of that filthy racist firm your GF works for. Ill stir some shyt for ya..!


And OF COURSE,, one can ONLY assume that your GF is OK with racist firms as she works in one.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:21pm PT

"Locker - That's a copout."...



It's NOT always appropriate to speak out and not knowing me???...

Well, trust me when I say keeping my cool was VERY important...


Question:

Were you there???...

Of course not!!!...



Then STFU because you don't have a clue...

;-)


Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Sorry you had to endure that - as you can tell by a good portion of the posts here, even our fellow climbers often don't get it.

I get it. I get that a lot of posters are completely unable to consider the possibility that some people who show the Confederate flag are not motivated by racism.... that their reasons are honorable.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
"Incidentally, mixed girl just told to straighten her hair at my girlfriend's firm for the job interview, so she'd look more white."

This is what they said or this is your conclusion?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:32pm PT

"I get it. I get that a lot of posters are completely unable to consider the possibility that some people who show the Confederate flag are not motivated by racism...."...

There are usually exceptions to the rule...

But the majority are red neck idiots...(EDITED: So if you CHOOSE to show that dumb flag, be prepared to be included in THAT group ;-)




EDITED:

"Locker, totally get that you didn't say anything, I'm assuming you're talking about the memorial, and were trying to be respectful of Blitzo and the whole thing."...

Exactly!!!...

Just not the right time...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:39pm PT



learn WHY the Southerners fly that flag^^^^^^^^^
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
What does straightening your hair have to do with being whiter? Only White woman have straight hair? Maybe it has to do with looking professional, not white? Unless looking professional is only a "white" thing. Did they actually claim they believe she would look more white and that would be better for the firm? Or are you just assuming they believe straight hair makes you look "whiter" and therefore more professional? Sounds to me like they just have a dress/hair code?
Is she the only one they have targeted like this?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Then you should go to www.rockclimbing.com I hear its ubber coolio..
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
There are usually exceptions to the rule...

But the majority are red neck idiots...(EDITED: So if you CHOOSE to show that dumb flag, be prepared to be included in THAT group ;-)

Of course, the only thing you have to base that on is your own bigoted ignorance.

Bravo.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:00pm PT

"Of course, the only thing you have to base that on is your own bigoted ignorance."...

I am from the south, Mother was born and raised in Bogalusa Louisiana, my Uncles were KKK...

I am speaking from personal experience...

Again...

ZERO CLUE!!!...

;-)




EDITED:

However...

I should add that I still love Grits and Hushpuppies...

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
There are nine States, including Maryland, that allow Sons of Confederate Veterans custom license plates.

Do you think those state governments would allow it, if it's as overtly racist as y'all claim?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:04pm PT




Just to make sure some of you see this^^^^^^.. And ive received the exact same answers from Folks in Geogia as to why they fly the stars and bars.


So this thread,dedicated to a racism in its own right, attempts to stir the crap where there IS NONE in some vein effort of style perhaps? Or simply a very naive and stereo typical view on the part of the OP. Because according to HIM,, Blacks never say "buddy".....
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Well Sketch...

no more CLUELESS comments???...




EDITED:

Bottom line...

Anytime you see a confederate flag attached to a window in a home or car...

99% of the time it will be there because the dude that owns it is a bigot and a redneck...

That's just a fuking FACT!!!...

Trying to claim otherwise is fuking foolish...

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
"Of course, the only thing you have to base that on is your own bigoted ignorance."...

I am from the south, Mother was born and raised in Bogalusa Louisiana, my Uncles were KKK...

I am speaking from personal experience...

Since you know how people are in a single backwoods shithole, where you lived a long time ago, you think that makes you an expert on the entire South?

Try again.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:07pm PT


"Since you know how people are in a single backwoods shithole, where you lived a long time ago, you think that makes you an expert on the entire South?"...

Again TOTALLY clueless...

I give up...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Locker,, got a "link"??


And is that Back Gentlemen ( Former pres of a NAACP chapter) in the vid i posted a racist? Is my BUDDY Sam in Georgia also a racist since he too is black?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:13pm PT


"Locker,, got a "link"??"...



Ron...

I am beginning to believe that YOU are the missing link...

LOL!!!...



Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Holy crap Ron, where'd you dig up that video?

I was wondering what has happened to allen west lately. He's looking a little haggard! Has he been hitting the bottle a bit more than usual?
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Bottom line...

Anytime people see that confederate flag attached to a window in a home or car...

99% of the time it will be there because the dude that owns it is a bigot and a redneck...

That's just a fuking FACT!!!...

Trying to claim otherwise is fuking foolish...

Speaking of clueless comments.... you've outdone yourself.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:20pm PT

Perhaps this is a good example of the typical southern ignorance...

"Since you know how people are in a single backwoods shithole"...


"Single backwoods sh!thole"...

Hmmm...

Single = ONE, correct???...

Hmmm...




Did I write or say that I've ONLY lived and visited a SINGLE southern location???...

Try this one dude...

Lots of time spent in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi (A LOT of family still living there), South and North Carolina, etc...

You ASSUME you know something when you DON'T...

LOL!!!...

TOTALLY FUKING CLUELESS!!!...(Concerning this matter that is)




locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:22pm PT


"Speaking of clueless comments.... you've outdone yourself."...

You could NOT be further from correct!!!...


The vast majority of you Rebel Flag flying fukers is a bigot and a redneck and that's just SIMPLE fact...

dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
So they did not actually say "You will look more white"? Or you would have gone down there and kicked some ass, right?

I feel there is a possibility this had nothing to do with race and perhaps someone or some people there know from experience that the more professional you look the better chances you have of getting hired. I can see a white girl with the same frizzy hairdo being told the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I mean no disrespect, I like that look, and I'm sure many places would be fine with it, but perhaps it does not look great to others, perhaps it's personal opinion, sounds like they advised her, not told her she had to change it. You think they are just uptight about looking professional. Why would they even consider hiring her out if they are racist? If you/she feels this is racism then keep the hair and fight back.
I see racism in the world, but I try not to pin every issue going on to racism. Many people have "prejudices" and "stereotypes" that are mistaken and we learn through interaction/education when we are wrong. These words do not even exist anymore, they have all fallen under the umbrella of "racism"

Maybe you don't look at it this way Burchey, but your comment about black people not speaking a certain way is wrong. I mean seriously, how are "black" people supposed to talk. If you say "buddy" then you must not be black. No wonder people like Allen West get called "Orios" They are too "white", they are not supposed to talk like that huhh?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:28pm PT

PS:

Sketch...

We've never met (At least I don't think we have) and I don't really have a CLUE as to your belief systems and such...

However, you're beginning to bug me here so I am politely backing off before I snap and have yet another "SUPER TOPO MASSIVE MELTDOWN"...

LOL!!!...

Take care man (Or woman???)...



I'm OUT!!!...
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
Locker = Harry Calaghan


"A man's got to know his limitations...."



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Locker,,stop wearing your heart on your sleeve. All the offense YOU take over what is said- you give back to folks like me- whos black BUDDYS fly stars and bars over SOUTHERN PRIDE. Do you not think your words have that same effect? Labeling them racist rednecks is harldy accurate. There are just as many prejudice folks in COLO or Cali.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
150 year later, here we are, still arguing with dumbasses about that stupid confederidiot flag. At best, the people displaying and defending it are ignorant pukes. At worst, they are ignorant, racist, hateful neoconfederate pukes. Either way, they're pukes.

They certainly aren't worth defending.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Yahhh it took a CALIFORNIA type to bring it here eh...One who thinks black folks dont say "buddy"... (cant make this shyt up)
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 14, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
But Ron, Allen West IS a racist. It merely manifests as self loathing.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Nov 14, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Yes, I got the fact that you did not think he was for real, that was pretty obvious. Your suspicions were obviously raised even more when he did not talk like he was "supposed" to. I don't have Hispanic, Black, Asian, etc... friends that ream "whitey" for how they supposedly talk. Perhaps my friends are not "real enough". I get it though. It's not a differing opinion I have. It's that I can't think on the same level. Perhaps I will get there some day.
If you weren't being serious with that comment, well,sorry I'm blowing it out of proportion. It's a little hard to tell with the ways things have been going on this thread what people mean and don't mean.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Bruce the guy in my vid was H.K. Edgerton i believe..







But heres a more modern black youth also explaining the stars and bars. And NOTE where it is said hes become the most POPULAR guy on campus...hmmmmmm Is it possible that some have advanced from those latter 1800s??
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 14, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
The FACT remains they did what they did and their descendants are proud and better-spoken than lots here.

It sickens me to think a man deserves to be sent to the ER or worse for flying the stupid symbol.

Would it be more acceptable to disinter their ancestors' remains and display THEM?

Get it right, azzhats: They are showing respect for their own heroes.

If you can't see that and keep arguing for your "side" you show extreme lack of confidence.

Have a little respect for yourselves and put this one to rest.

RIP the Donefedreacy.

And nobody's gonna benefit by having their ass kicked for being racist.

Fuscshikt, already!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
in the words of wessie,,, "yur a F#cking idiot"....


And my bird Max would make mincemeat of the likes of you. pfffffff.....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 14, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
So, did anybody get their ass kicked yet?



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 14, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Dang gay nazis,,ya cant blame em though. Out there on the eastern front. So cold they would put one sleeping bag together with another for body heat and~~~~
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Nov 14, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
Sad thread really, but a great example of rational ignorance as the so called facts vary from revision or subjectivity having been passed down through the years and yet many here believe they know the confederate flag is based on racism or representative of racism.

The book is in the public domain, I read it this past weekend and I did not find a single mention of that flag in the entire book, yet, the images from a movie set off such angry words. Images not present in the book.


Edit: so I don't bump this thread...
The images from the movie that set off angry words were the use of human beings like cattle

Then why is the title of this thread not "next person i see using human beings like cattle = free trip to hospital?

Then OP continues with an example of rational ignorance.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 04:55pm PT

The Swastika wasn't always viewed as a Nazi thing either if I'm not mistaken...

But what comes to YOUR mind when you see it now???...

Would you drive around with it in your car window???...

If not, why???...

okie

Trad climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
Let's keep an open mind about slavery...
Credit: okie
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Just to keep a little mud in the water.....

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:09pm PT

The Swastika wasn't always viewed as a Nazi thing either if I'm not mistaken...

But what comes to YOUR mind when you see it now???...

most rational people would see the Swastika as a symbol of Hitler's Germany
--------------


from wiki:
The symbol has a long history in Europe reaching back to antiquity. In modern times, following a brief surge of popularity as a good luck symbol in Western culture, a swastika was adopted as a symbol of the Nazi Party of Germany in 1920, who used the swastika as a symbol of the Aryan race.

so, there probably really are a handful of people who tattoo one on their forehead or proudly make a Swastika flag and put it in their yard, all the while claiming that is is
a symbol of "good luck"

just exactly like a handful of people on this thread insist that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern "culture and pride", instead of what the vast majority think otherwise
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:09pm PT


I'm missing your point survival...

Probably still too tired from the trip for it to sink in (Or it could be my 60 I.Q.)...

???...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:12pm PT


"just exactly like a handful of people on this thread insist that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern "culture and pride", instead of what the vast majority think otherwise"...



100 fuking % on the mark!!!...
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Funny thread. It could have meaning and good discussion but it is the internets after all. There are a few historical tidbits here and there I have learned, thanks.


Something that throws me off a fair bit is the use of redneck. Where I am from originally, redneck means somebody that works outside and is maybe a little closer to the land and are goo.d folk. I think what people here mean is hick. I am originally from Bakersfield and now live in W-MT and have to correct my ignorant friends when they are feeling their oats and being judgmental about someone. Half the time I hear people referring to others as rednecks and whatnot, what they do not realize how much they are the similar to those they despise. By similar, I mean projection.

Anyway, have at it and keep on with those insults.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:22pm PT

The term "Redneck" has been accepted to mean BACKWOODS IDIOT (Or it's equivalent) for many years...

The way you are using it is how it was originally used...

I can't think of ANYONE that uses it to mean a "hard working field hand with a sunburned neck" (aka Red neck) any longer...

But that's just me...

;-)

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
I'm missing your point survival...

The point is that there is tons of racism that's hidden and not flown like a flag. There are lots of flags, that don't necessarily mean much at all, except to certain people.

The point is, why would someone go to the trouble to make a Gay Nazi flag?
Because they only like white aryan ass?

Why are a bunch of American Marines hanging out behind an SS flag>

I'm more interested in the questions than the obvious stereotypical answers.



Whose battle flag is that?








What does this mean?







And WTF??







Don't hate the hate for the sake of hating hate so we can stamp out hate.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Locker, I understand that but...

It still means the same to me and my folks! Redneck is what you are mostly regardless of choice, hick is how you want or were taught to think.

The judgement that comes with it is somewhat bothersome to me. When I hear it, I figure it is an ignorant person showing some insecurity in some way whilst attempting mount a horse. Where is humility and understanding? <<--I think getting more of that into our American diet will aid in solving issues or at least make it easier for our way of thinking to catch up with technology, but then again a lot of technology today can numb a person while feeding there ego with supersized fast food.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
I think I have found a solution. In the interest of southern pride being provided a symbol for that which they can be justifiably proud ( chitlins, Cajun music, aligators, southern belles.... thats about it I guess) we will let you keep your stupid flag.

But first you must convince your racists and bigots to adopt a symbol that has no association with the southern states or any other xenophobic region. A symbol which can identify and unify racists and miscelaneous other scum without confusing or obfuscating the central premiss of their raison d'ette. I suggest a fire extinguisher:


Joseph Small Puts Fire Hose In Butt, Causes General Mayhem


Joseph Small, 20 appeared in Westminster Magistrate's Court in London this week and admitted to multiple charges after a hotel rampage that involved him shoving a fire house up his butt, Sunday World reported.

Police say that on Halloween, Small stripped naked on the fourth-floor hallway of a Premier Inn before inserting the hose of a fire extinguisher in between his buttcheeks and started playing with his own fire hose, according to the Metro.

Hotel workers told officials that Small, who was a guest at the hotel, then began yelling at a Bangladeshi hotel worker, saying "This country has been taken over by al-Qaeda. Go back to Pakistan."

Oh yeah, he also peed on the floor.

On Tuesday, he admitted to charges of criminal damage, racially aggravated harassment and outraging public decency. He will be sentenced December 3.

Small didn't poop on the floor, but if he had, he would have been close to achieving the alleged trifecta of Florida resident and Weird News hero Gregory Matthew Bruni, aka., the alleged violent naked pooping masturbator.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/joseph-small-fire-hose-racist_n_4268537.html?utm_hp_ref=weird-news&ir=Canada
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:49pm PT


"In the interest of southern pride being provided a symbol for that which they can be justifiably proud ( chitlins, Cajun music, aligators, southern belles.... thats about it I guess)"...

Must have been written by one of them damned Yankies!!!...

What the fuk dude???...

How the hell did you forget, GRITS, HUSH PUPPIES, PECAN PRALINES, GUMBO...

Shall I go on???...


LOL!!!...

;-)

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
There's still slavery, and still people doing something about it.

https://www.operationundergroundrailroad.org/about/
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
Nov 14, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
This thread would be more awesome if it had its own theme song.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:02pm PT

"The point is, why would someone go to the trouble to make a Gay Nazi flag?
Because they only like white aryan ass?

Why are a bunch of American Marines hanging out behind an SS flag>

I'm more interested in the questions than the obvious stereotypical answers."
...



Thanks for helping me understand your point and I AGREE!!!...

I too find it puzzling...

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
just exactly like a handful of people on this thread insist that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern "culture and pride", instead of what the vast majority think otherwise

Nice statement, Norton.

Lead with a lie. Close with an ignorant claim.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
Nice statement, Norton.

thanks!

I thought it was quite accurate!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:46pm PT

"Lead with a lie. Close with an ignorant claim."...



Sounds like a Republican...

Norton...

Have you switched sides???...

LOL!!!...

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 14, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Here's an interesting, reasonable op-ed on the subject:

Few symbols are more hated and loved than the Confederate flag. Its meaning has shifted over the past 150 years and continues to change. Walk around campus and you can see the occasional Confederate flag on the pocket of a shirt or hanging in a dorm room. The question is what do all these flags represent: Southern heritage, outright racism, or just rebellion against authority?
The original flag of the Confederacy was not what we know as the Confederate flag today. It was the Stars and Bars, a flag that looked extremely similar to the U.S. flag. While Southerners did want to abandon the Union, they were reluctant to abandon their flag. The only problem was that in a battle they could not tell which flag was U.S. and which was Confederate, leading to some obvious problems.
The solution was the creation of two flags, one as the battle flag, and one the parade flag. The battle flag that was adopted is what we now know as the Confederate flag, the only difference being that it was square, not rectangle. The battle flag gained widespread popularity and was later incorporated into a new national Confederate parade flag.
After the war, organizations like the United Daughters of the Confederacy adopted the flag as their symbol. While the battle flag was never the national symbol of the Confederacy, it has come to be recognized as such.
White Southerners saw the flag as a symbol of heritage and dignity. The “good old boy” connotations are attributed to Ole Miss football games and to distinguish Southern troops during WWII from their Northern counterparts. As for hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan, they did use the flag, but they did not give it its blatantly racist connotation. That emerged during the integration of Southern universities.
You can also blame the Dixiecrats for the racist implications of the Confederate flag. The Dixiecrats were a party made up of anti-integration college students who co-opted the flag as their standard. The image of Dixiecrats fighting the National Guard while waving Confederate flags became branded into the national psyche. And so, the flag became tied to racism.
Today, it’s handed out at rock concerts and is just as likely to be found in rural New York as sweet home Alabama. It’s no longer just a symbol of the South; it’s become part of the good old boy culture of guns, trucks, and country music.
So what does the flag stand for on this campus? Student Logan Murray, a proud Confederate flag owner, said it represents “standing up for what you believe in and honoring all who died for their country.” Student Kay Wicker, a non-flag owner had this to say: “I understand that it is viewed differently by different people, but on principal, it does bother me.”
While the Confederate flag may not be intrinsically racist, it represents the entirety of southern history, much of which was racist. There is a connection to racism and the confederate flag. People have the right to be offended, but they should not assume the motives of the person owning the flag, because it means something different to each person.
The Confederate flag has changed greatly since its creation and is likely to continue to do so. There may come a day when the blatantly racist meaning of the flag fades away along with the scars of integration. Until that day comes, the responsibility falls upon Confederate flag flyers to explain what it means to them. As for the rest of us, we should keep an open mind, about a symbol that has stood for so much to so many, be it right or wrong.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 14, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
Being open minded about racism is not an option. And as your quote points out, it is racist.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 14, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
Every time my ass develops an uncontrollable itch, I apply a bromide.

Every time a symbol is offered as a bromide, I think about the declining values tagged onto happiness and salvation by a placebo.

I have a friend who covers his window with the Stars and Bars. There was always a problem, best left unconfronted because my friend is a good person who would never hurt a fly but would say some incredibly ignorant racist crap on occasion.

I came to realize he has a phobia that requires a shrink to solve. I'm no shrink.

Like I said, he's a good person in life and work but I had to back off because of his fear and contempt of other people. I could look all triumphant and resonant about taking a path away from him but it's so mundane and common a choice.

Yes from Canada about Locker's statement that anyone flying that flag is someone with a problem. The video of the black kid-first year student defending that flag is obviously an example of the first time he's away from his parents and giving the old man the finger from the security and distance of a college dorm.

Not everyone gets a Mohawk cut and chrome studs straight out of the nest...
okie

Trad climber
Nov 14, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Don't like the stars and bars? The good ole stars and stripes was carried into "battle" at Wounded Knee. The U.S. flag flew over the near genocide of a whole race of people, arguably at least as horrible a state-sponsered terrorism as anything that happened in the bloody 20th century. To this day the U.S. flag is a symbol of hate around the world to those peoples who have been hurt by the new forms of imperialism.
It's all about perspective,huh? So, Burchyman, what windmill will you tilt at? You know... if ANY flag has lasted long enough there will be winners and losers who had their blood spilled under that flag. One of my ancestors was under Pickett and crossed an open field in Pennsylvania. I am sure he wasn't thinking about the greater issues of his day, in that moment.
So, when the dreaded order to fix bayonets goes down the line, will you be there?

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:03am PT
The composer George Walker, when he was 7, asked his grandma what it was like to be a slave. She said, "They did everything but eat us."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:07am PT
Yahhh and that was also LONG LONG ago Gary.. If you want to complain about slavery , how about MEXICO and NIGERIA for starters. Still selling slves today..
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:14am PT
There are slaves in the great U.S. of A. today, Ron...
MisterE

climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:22am PT
Burch3y still cracks me up.

Here's a guy that gas been banned so many times he has to put a number in his new avatar, and you all still knee-jerk at his threads.

Too funny.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 15, 2013 - 02:47am PT
i suggest we let this guy sort it all out,


Credit: Dr.Sprock
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 15, 2013 - 06:45am PT
wow does that d00d upthread have on a Newtown shirt?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 08:33am PT
Deekaid

climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:30am PT
all these one post as#@&%es coming out of woodwork ...where is the spam link yiddlplop?

fully agree with Mr E...how about one more time? this place would be a little bit better
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:39am PT
Ah, deke, he's actually one of the better here. But you are a most useless pos, so I hardly expect you to understand.

Now, why don't you go do something useful and start a "show us pics of your favorite confederate flag (ot)" thread? Good boy.

Edit: too late, I did it already cuz u suck at lyfe ;)
WTF

climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:50am PT
Burchey

You couldn't beat yourself out of a wet paper bag.

STFU.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:53am PT
“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”
Deekaid

climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:53am PT
talk talk talk queefus

you are the second biggest as#@&%e on supertopo

i predict this thread turns into queefus and bitchy cupping each other and a long dissertation from rsinjox
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:58am PT
You are crying, aren't you? Have a good day, confirmed loser ;).
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 15, 2013 - 10:42am PT
I'm beginning to see the other side's take on the issue. Of course, it is solely a matter of pride in the great South. It's hospitality and culture.

Where would we get the idea it has something to do with racism?

Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:25am PT
never mind..
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Where's the Hospital TR? This thread is a big zero. No photo no summit.

DMT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:49am PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:54am PT
Darn. Oh well, some day you will achieve your destiny. Go git em tiger.

DMT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
The good ole stars and stripes was carried into "battle" at Wounded Knee. The U.S. flag flew over the near genocide of a whole race of people, arguably at least as horrible a state-sponsered terrorism as anything that happened in the bloody 20th century. To this day the U.S. flag is a symbol of hate around the world to those peoples who have been hurt by the new forms of imperialism.





Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Next up: "OT: Next Trip to the Hospital = Free Confederate Flag!!!"
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
Wounded knee was started over Lakotas fighting Lakotas over local tribal elections,, in which 3 total combatants died. 2 on the Indian side and one on the LEO side.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
lulz



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Cmon people. Lets hate where it belongs TODAY...

Right now in Mexico slaves are being sold. Right now in Nigeria, slaves are being sold. The very same countries that were leading the global slavery trade to begin with are STILL AT IT.

If we ever wanted to engage countries in war for the good of its people ,, it IS those two countries that could put the biggest dent in the world slave trade.

Or you can go in bawling over something that happened over a hundred years ago while feeling good about that "effort"..
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
There are plenty of people flying these flags around you can talk to anytime Burchey. If your going to Woodson just drive a few miles more and head to a country town like Ramona and you can find plenty of folks to confront about the meaning of that flag and how racist they are for flying it. Will you really confront them and ask and possibly suffer the consequences or was this thread just to vent your frustrations?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
"Blacks dont say BUDDY"



From the mind of Martin Luther Burchey...




Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 15, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
^^^^^

YAWN
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 15, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
hard to believe they can stack STUPID that high...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 15, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
Still waiting for the ass kicking to commence....
lulz


Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 16, 2013 - 07:19am PT
Thanks for the support, Russ!


I'm surprised at the fish eye over internet threats from this crowd. These idiots usually lap it up. Hell, Rong posts his home address up about once a week hoping for "physical confrontation" (i.e. his frail old man ass - emphysema? - picks up the gun in time to enact Dirty Harry fantasies over some internet boo hooing).

This thread did highlight the next confederate flag I saw, funnily enough. It was actually two stickers in opposite corners of the rear window on some jacked up redneck truck in Carson City. To cap it off, the truck had balls a dangling and an aggro lady driver behind the wheel. Dixie doodle dumbass! Belle of the ball! Hell, what do I know though. She's probably wet dream stroke fodder for this flaccid, flag waving lot.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 16, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
You can't actually kick someone's ass THROUGH the internet.

No sh#t? Thanks swifty.

I was referring to these folks you were gonna give a beat down to out in the real world. lulzy





Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 16, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Is big bad Martin luther burchey givin it to em today? I see queefuss wasnt brave enough to confront a redneck CHICK. Where is the commitment? Did MLBurchey track down the dood who called his GF that racial slur? Wheres the BEEF??>?




dirtbag

climber
Nov 16, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
Really, it's not about racism, or Jew hating or anything like that. It's about German pride. Can't anyone see that? Why does everyone have their panties in a twist?

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 16, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
Right dirtbag....flags often become the rallying cry for the baser instincts within a people. They become a symbol for jingoisim, racisim and militarism.....sad but true.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 16, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
JD,, i know you were HAPPY that you wore an American flag on your Uniform. (55 countries youve been to and as you said, home is the USA)



And among the collection of USA flags in the confederate flag, which represented as much bravery as did the old stars and stripes. OR you can think it to represent racism only. Me i tend to agree with those vids i posted of Black folks who dont think of it as racist whatsoever. I had family on BOTH sides of that civil war from the days of the Kansas/MO border wars on. And not one of them fought about slavery. They DID fight over land stealing, robbery, murder and mayhem. And everyone of them no matter the side fought in battles ugly enough to rival any,, ever. If we are to heal over racism and prejudice why not think of the stars and bars for those gawdawful brave acts, the fighting to save ones land and family and the Southern pride of just being SOUTHERN? Nevadans have pride,,, CALIFORNIANS ooze with pride,, Coloradans- proud too. All rightfully so.


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 16, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Love my country, served it and would do so again, but i'm not a flag waver it's been co opted by jingoists.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 16, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
Dood you dont need to be no stinkin flag waiver. You waved the weapon which gives you EVERY right to wave or not wave....Having three Nam vet brothers i know this to be fakt..;-)
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Nov 16, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Credit: Cosmiccragsman
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 01:32pm PT


"Really, it's not about racism, or Jew hating or anything like that. It's about German pride. Can't anyone see that? Why does everyone have their panties in a twist?"...

You NAILED it with that one Dirtbag!!!... (Along with that fuked up flag that is)...

But THEY won't get it...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
well, ol Marin Luther burchey looks IDENTICAL to a tweaker that lives in one of the junk yards here. (twin brother?). He wears his hat right down on his eyeballs too. The wanna be look..aka tool material..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 01:53pm PT


Why refer to the dude as "ol Marin Luther burchey"???...

What's your reasoning???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
Locker, my reasoning is purely satire. Why do you ASSUME every person that has a confederate flag is a racist?


And Burchey,, WHY do you keep posting that picture of MOUSE FROM MERCED?

Are you indeed a PHUUUL??





jstan

climber
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
Once at a performance by Irish folksinger Mary Black, she delivered the following regarding Bonnie Prince Charlie's defeat 400 years ago.

"It would have helped had he been competent."

No one ever forgets a war or an injustice. And those advocating war, absent imminent threat, fail to roll this into their cost calculation. Another example of "externalization". The Civil War will never be forgotten. And those advocating renewal make the same mistake made when Ft. Sumter's bombardment was ordered. The Confederates had only to look at the industrial power concentrated in the North to realize victory was not possible. It was never more than a question of how many million Union soldiers would be required. None of that equation has changed during the past century and a half. And the Union has since gained nuclear weapons.

Had less of an appeal to emotion been employed the south might have accepted a bid by the government to compensate slave owners the one or two billion dollars at which they were valued. With the unstated agreement that afterward the form of economic slavery embodied in Jim Crow would meet with no northern interference. Everyone would have come out better off and migration of blacks to the North would have just moved up a century.

This thread gives us the answer to the folk song lyric, "will we ever learn?"

Looks very unlikely.

We value entertainment above life.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
"Locker, my reasoning is purely satire. Why do you ASSUME every person that has a confederate flag is a racist?"...




I just asked a simple question...


and I ask the question still...




Why the reference to Martin Luther in conjunction with Burchey???...

Seems an odd choice... UNLESS???...






EDITED:

"Why do you ASSUME every person that has a confederate flag is a racist"...

Do I???...



Speaking of assumptions???...



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
would you prefer Reverand burchey-wright?



That would be more accurate actually.

I was alluding to the burcheys bent on racial fight attitude is all..

But since hes a violence advocating type,, rev wright is indeed the better choice here.

UNLESS your calling me a racist in which case i will once again explain to you how i am a honorary member of the Mo-ShoeiShoei clan of S Africa. They dont accept racists in that clan. Yes im a CLAN member LMAO!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:48pm PT


"I was alluding to the burcheys bent on racial fight attitude is all.."...

Do YOU support his "fight" against racism???...




EDITED:

Seems you are in opposition to Burchey which to me implies non supportive behavior...


???...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:56pm PT


If just one set of eyes is opened...

it will not have been a waste of time...



It is a fight I will carry to my grave...

;-)





EDITED:

When it takes so much time to answer an easy question...

one MIGHT assume that an answer is being formulated only to fill the gap...

Not because it is truly within ones belief system...

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 17, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
I support burchy's fight against racism. It will be cool to see how the war evolves. Please post updates.

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
Locker,,, doood,,, WHAT FIGHT? Posting a stooopud thread here? Over the confederate flag?


Do i support an idget? No,, no i do not. Do YOU advocate blatantly biased violence? Do you advocate the black panthers?


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
Hellyeah GO PANTHERS!

DMT
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:13pm PT

"Locker,,, doood,,, WHAT FIGHT?"...


~~~ Ron A.





Uh...

the one YOU were referring to???...




"I was alluding to the burcheys bent on racial fight attitude is all.."...


~~~ Ron A.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:15pm PT


A word is missing...

"Consistency"...

Seems you change your sh!t to suit the moment...

Makes it real difficult to have any decent discussion...

LOL!!!...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:17pm PT


SIMPLE QUESTION RON...(I am dying over here dude... LOL!!!)


Do YOU support his "fight" against racism???...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
My two oldest brothers attended high school near saugus CA. Both had to defend themselves regularly from black students there, and one that assualted one of my brothers ended up committing rape and murder shortly thereafter.

When my brother rick was being inducted in downtown WATTS, he was trapped in the center as the riots went on outside the doors.


When i moved to carson in Jr high from sparks, i had to take martial arts to defend myself from the local Paiutes as i had been gang attacked,, dropped kicked walking down school hallways for no reason other than being a pale looking white boy as were others..





But all those perpetrators were just LOW LIFE POS's and it really didnt have to do with race, but CHARACTER. Race was the exscuse used to justify piss poor character.

edit: Locker, i DID answer you, but youve not answered one of mine.

u smokin GURSH?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:19pm PT


"near saugus CA"...

Thread Drift:

I used to eat at the Saugus Café almost weekly when I was in College...

Fuking LOVED their greasy hamburgers...







Now back to the discussion...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:20pm PT


"But all those perpetrators were just LOW LIFE POS's and it really didnt have to do with race, but CHARACTER"...


Fuking big time BINGO!!!...


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:22pm PT

"u smokin GURSH?"...


Sorry Ron!!!...

I missed that question...

Where did you ask it???...




But to answer...

I have no idea because I don't know what "GURSH" is...

What is it???...





Presently I am NOT "Burning" anything but am very much considering lighting up momentarily...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
We lived VERY near there.. We could see the smoke from watts boiling over the hill to the south.! Its one of my earlier memories burned into my head- my Dad heading out the door with his 30-06 to join the neighbors the thwart a "group" that had entered the neighborhood. And that group left with out a shot fired- every one around there was a hunter it seemed.



edit: Gursh ,hmmmmm, must be a localism...;-)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
Gursh: DIRT weed,, mexican paraquat special,, SEED bags,, etc etc..



rsin,,, paleeze,, my bro was THERE and it was a riot in which they burned down their own neighborhood.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:28pm PT

Oh!!!...

You mean...

"Bunk"...

Why didn't you say so???...

LOL!!!...




EDITED:

I am a weed SNOB these days and will ONLY smoke "top shelf" GUDS...

If I am going to continue to fuk my lungs up...

I want to at least get HIGH while doing it...



LMAO!!!...



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:31pm PT


" was a riot in which they burned down their own neighborhood"...



Just nitpicking here...

I personally would have worded the above differently...

Would have left out the "THEY" and replaced it with "people"...

Again...

just nitpicking...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
I used to be that way about my tequilla.. CaboWabo.....



But now back to the Rev Burchey-wright and his lack of beating the snot out of some guy that called his GF a n*gger..

Have we seen a thread from a friend of his asking for bail money? nooo

Have we seen a pic of the guys face that said that? noooo

Have we seen the unconscious bodys of confederate flag bearing rednicks??
noooo,, again..


But did you know,,,, according to Burchey,,,BLACK FOLKS DONT SAY buddy????
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:39pm PT


"But did you know,,,, according to Burchey,,,BLACK FOLKS DONT SAY buddy????"...

No one is ALWAYS right...

Unless it's Rush...


LOL!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
things always develope as they go along rsin.. That doesnt negate the fact that this country was never MORE UNIFIED in a cause ever. Be it citizen or soldier.


and now back to the topic perhaps?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 04:21pm PT


"Instead, you're an idiot.

Better than nothing, I guess."
...


That's a fuking funny line no matter who you're saying it to...

LOL!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
ahhh i see the rev burchey-wright doesnt recognize racism if one being inflicted is white. HIS "anecdotal" bs with the GF counts,, but my blatant examples dont,,, rrrrright....



Theres not a human group ever that doesnt have its own racists. That includes all colors. The KNOWN gangs in this country frequently exhibit blatant racism for instance. But hey we let many of them in here for the most, and might end up giving many amnesty and citizenship for those "efforts".. Only in the USA...That is fakkt. Some of the most racist types there are actually. I was nearly going to draw a piece one night in the wal mart parking lot due to someone not liking the border patrol hat on my dash board. That same vehicle got scraped with a claw hammer by some one in another parking lot. That basically racially motivated. Hate crime is what they like to refer to it now eh..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 05:53pm PT


"America...land of the, WHAT THE FUK???"...



Oh yeah!!!...





"FREE"...


Just not those damned Mexicans!!!...






???...





Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 17, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
when is the last time that America dropped a bomb on some white folks?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
reach around and slap yourself. I was talking GANGS,, G---A---N---G---S.

Not my fault all of ours in this area are mexican gangs NOW IS IT....



Baahahaa,, in FACT , RIGHT NOW, i have an active report with the Lyon County Sheriffs from a wanna be mexican gang member- the one i stopped from beating my neighbors dog. Hes not supposed to be at the neighbors near any where near here, but he persists at showing up sometimes VERY late, including being parked out front of the place on the road at 2:30 am. Now all of this because i was defending my Mexican neighbors dog, from a punkass wannabe gangster for the nutrenos. Hes going to end up jailed, deported or DOA. Thats whom i speak of Locker. And HELLYUEAH im "agin em"...And so is my Neighbor.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 17, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Yes, all etnic groups are susceptible to racisim but there is a big difference in outcome. In this country racisim towards whites has a miniscule effect on their quality of life, racisim towards blacks has had, and still has, an enormous negative effect on the quality of their lives.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:01pm PT


^^^

Nailed it to the T!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
JD i seriously beg to differ. Over the consent decree of 1979, i was told NOT to even apply for MY job i had been doing for years as it was going to be re-flown for a minority or female. It was the straw that broke my USFS career really. 15 yrs down the tubes. So i know quite well whitey can be affected by racism.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Sure, racisim can negatively effect whites but it's a fraction of the effect that has been visited on blacks.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:16pm PT

THREAD DRIFT:

Ron...

Did they start the new person at a lower wage also???...

Often that too plays a role in not being hired back...





EDITED:



Perhaps they felt a Black/Hispanic/Female and YOU didn't mix so they said...

"See ya!!!"...





Just kidding!!!...

;-)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
That would be during the Bosnian Civil War(1992-1995) and the Kosovo War (1998-1999) Sprock. American forces under NATO command during the Clinton administration.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deliberate_Force

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Locker that is exactly what they said to me. " This job will be given to a minority or female and you dont need to even apply for it."
That was the final blow of a few in a row for me and i no longer wanted to be part of that bureaucracy . There were MANY like me. And we "donated" our careers for many a minority and female person.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:37pm PT


"And we "donated" our careers for many a minority and female person."...


Damned those fuking minorities and females...

What were they thinking applying for those jobs in the first place???...

They're INFERIOR!!!...



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Baaaahahaaa.. WRONG Burchey.. I was a five time cert of merit award winner. Most 30 yr types have maybe two if they are lucky.


edit: Locker,, i shyt u knott, the person they put in my position was dumber than a stump. Only had ONE written qualification out of Seven major ones.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:40pm PT

I have a thought...

Perhaps the job market wasn't fair, BITD???...

Maybe, just MAYBE they were TRYING to bring more BALANCE to the equation???...




I don't know...



JUST thinking out loud...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
They wanted to fix racism with reverse racism..That is what it was. And it was done on a very large scale where in just a few years the USFS LOST many of their very qualified folks that left to private markets or other occupations. Being white put you IMMEDIATELY at the end of any list, if not directly to the dust bin. "To reach parity among the races and sexes"..
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:51pm PT


"They wanted to fix racism with reverse racism..That is what it was."...


Bringing more minorities and Woman into the workforce was for sure NOT "reverse racism"...

The racism was there at the start and they put an end to it (though I think Woman in particular STILL get less per hour than men)...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
A) in govt service women get payed exactly as men in any given position, and B) If a guy couldnt even apply because HE IS WHITE it most certainly is racism against that white guy.. Cuz,, well, i was that white guy. Had i been 1 generation sooner, my indian blood would have saved the day- i woulda been in like flint and now retired.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Nov 17, 2013 - 06:58pm PT


"If a guy couldnt even apply because HE IS WHITE.."...


What would have happened if a caucassion male had applied for the job???...

Would he have been arrested???...