Answer to the gun problem

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 41 - 60 of total 153 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:39am PT
It's also interesting that per capita gun ownership in America has been decreasing for some time but overall firearm sales are increasing. The only logical conclusion is that gun nuts are amassing ever greater stockpiles of weapons.

Curt
Tom Turrentine

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:00am PT
An interesting twist in this discussion may be the findings of this author-

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined -Steven Pinker

According to Pinker, violence has declined, not increased over the last few hundred years. I heard him speak on the radio - I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds interesting. Murder in early United States apparently was much more frequent on a percentage basis than today, reductions nowadays mostly as a result of law enforcement and more civility. Governments, kings and such, were responsible for daily hangings and horrible violence. I think I heard him say 15% of people in tribal societies met violent death.

I think he sets aside mass deaths achieved in mechanized war of 20th Century.

One thing he notes is that we hear about most violence in the news- much violence would not even be reported a hundred years ago.
jammer

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:04am PT
jgill and curt, I don't think it's those gun nuts that are predominantly the problem. There is some overlap there between the mass shooters and gun culture, but on some level that would be expected given those crimes were perpetrated with guns. I think there is extremely little overlap between gun nuts and your everyday gun violence, which is predominantly gang and poverty related.

I live in Wyoming though, so I know LOTS of regular decent folk who LOVE guns. Interestingly, the parts of Wyoming that have the most gun violence (not that there is a lot here) tend to be poor areas and the violence tends to involve poor people, who mostly happen to be white.

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:07am PT
We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.



Bet ya the exact same thing would/could have been said concerning Daniel Boone/Davy Crockett during their day.

Just saying John.

MarkGrubb

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Fully automatic weapons became more "restricted" in the 1930's via a federal tax. In other words, they merely became more expensive and required more paperwork. They are still completely legal in many states, including West Virginia. I have friends and family that own automatic weapons and other "NFA" firearms. Their use in crimes in the modern world approaches zero.

In many states today, and in even more places in the past, one can walk in, wait around for the federal background check, and walk out with as many firearms as you can afford. Interestingly, most of these states have lower than average gun violence. Conversely, many places with highly restrictive gun laws like Chicago and Oakland have extremely high gun violence.

How should we interpret these negative correlations?

Blaming gun manufacturers for the behavior of those that purchase these tools defies any logic. Alcohol producers are not liable for what occurs when people drink to excess. Big Tobacco? Car Industry? All of these products result in more deaths than those "caused" by guns by orders of magnitude. If reducing death is the prime directive, alcohol, tobacco, and animal protein should logically be banned or at least severely regulated.

As I mentioned up-thread, I grew up in a region saturated with firearms, white-trash racists, and radicalized, pissed-off young black men. These folks fought like badgers, rioted, and blew up the local college gym in the name of racial hatred. Despite all of that, they never went out to their trucks and turned readily available guns against each other.

What has changed? The mindset of teenage males. What has occurred that causes them to overreact and murder people over being "bullied" or marginalized (and what adolescent male in the history of the world has never felt bullied or marginalized?)?

1) A lack of substantive interaction with strong adult personalities who
could teach them how to deal with their feels and how to become a man.

2) Thousands of hours of committing extreme violence and causing thousands of virtual death that has absolutely zero emotional cost or commitment. "First-person shooter" video games are the emotional equivalent of the simulators used to train pilots. No sane child could kill so many real animals "for fun".

Beating a Dead Horse. I am done.



Not quite. If all children had experiences and a parent like this:

http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/ebec.html,

it would not matter how many guns and how much ammo they had access to.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Its not the video games. Its more along jgill's line of thinking, imo.

America is an Empire. In every sense of the word. It needs absolute military dominance to survive. It needs soldiers for that military.

Spartans, lend me your ears..... the things you think it takes to be a man? They were foisted upon you by a society of chickenshit sobnsabitches who are perfectly happy for YOU to fight their battles for them, but they don't 'do' the military themselves.

Then they'll give you a speech about firefighters and plumbers and all their other service folk, by way of defense.

Whatever. But the machine needed virtual fighters and lo, first person virtual war games were born. Who do you think wrote V1?

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:36am PT
America is an Empire. It needs absolute military dominance to survive.

Hate to tell ya, but, it aint just AMERICA. Not at all.

Ya'll make this whole wanna be a killer with a mighty weapon thang a new found mindset within our species.

Sorry to tell ya'll but it has been in the twinkling eye of young human males since that first club was picked up and used to beat the living shet outta of another human.


A long long time ago.



The concept of the club just evolved as did the species.


Is it an excuse. Not at all. Just a genetic natural instinctual fact that flows through our humanoid blood. As it does with so many other species that roam this planet.


Next time you go on one of your "international" maintenance trips DMT, I suggest you volunteer to go to the Congo, Somalia, Tripoli, Cairo, Damascus, Baghdad or even Kabul.
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:03am PT
It takes a individual to use a gun. It doesn't matter how many or what type of gun is set before you. An individual has to make a choice to pull the trigger. The fact is that in today"s society more individuals are willing to pull the trigger in circumstances that would have been Taboo in past times. The number of individuals committing these acts is still small in a general population of 300 some odd million and almost exclusively male.

Mark Grubb's thoughts above are a good synopsis of some of the influence's.

Humans love visual multimedia stimulation and a video game where you have the opportunity to violently and graphically kill individuals played over and over for hours, in the mind of the 1% of impressionable individuals has to have an effect on their moral values. Choosing to murder someone is after all a moral decision.

I find it telling in regards to the base nature of humans, that even folks on this forum who voice anti gun opinions also crave their weekly dose of "The Walking Dead" a tv show who's whole theme is interpersonal conflict and unending images of humans, being headshot. But they're zombies right? Could this show have been aired in years past when our society wasn't as comfortable with graphic violence? Even Dirty Harry didn't get to show his 44 magnum exploding that punks head.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Population density. Violent crime rates correlate with population density. Easy access to guns results in more serious consequences from violent crime.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
BS wes. EASY access to guns was in the sixties and 70s-- which was MUCH easier to get guns. Try again.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
He didn't say 'easier.'

It is easy to get guns. I can drive to Cabelas across the Nevada state line and walk out with an arsenal, easy as cash on the counter.

DMT
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Ron, wtf man. Seriously.. PLEASE pull your head out of your ass and learn to read.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Cabelas in Nevada can't / won't sell you any guns if you're a California resident, Mr Milktosat. You can only legally buy a gun in your state of residence.
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
You would have wasted your gas DMT. You cannot receive a gun over the counter in Nevada as a California Resident from Cabelas. If you want it now you would have to go to a private sale. If your going to comment on the law, best to know what it is.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
NV can sell guns to CA residents, but the transfer of the weapon has to go to a licensed dealer in CA first, then to the customer. At least i think thats the way it currently is.

And Wes recent murders around here include places like FERNELY- hardly a POP center as it were.

What you say about major population centers is correct- in that they all have a ghetto or low income area in which gangs flourish.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
You're right, Mr Anderson.

You can buy the gun in Nevada, but you won't be able to take it home with you. You'll have to take delivery of it at your local gun shop, after being shipped from Nevada to California. Subject to all California waiting periods, background checks, legal specs, etc.
dhayan

climber
los angeles, ca
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
i bet the gun companies are the same companies making the bulletproof white boards...
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
When I joined the NRA over fifty years ago their magazine might have as a cover a beautiful Parker shotgun on a nest of autumn leaves. Fast forward to current times, with a nasty AR-15 on that same bed of autumn leaves. Look inside. Ads showing hunters wearing camo and boonie caps, even occasionally dark smudges on faces, carrying assault-type flashlights and weapons (not firearms). We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.


.....interesting.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
I would HOPE so DHayan.. You dont want RONCO making those do you?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:01pm PT


"Answer to the gun problem"...

There is NO "Gun problem"...

There is a PEOPLE problem!!!...

;-)

Messages 41 - 60 of total 153 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews